Account Suspended?

py2006

Hi all,

I recently came back home from being abroad for a few weeks. There was several emails in my account from my hosting provider saying that my credit card details were out of date.

I went to check my site and I was horrified to see that they left a statement on my site saying:

"This account has been suspended for non-payment"

While they are possibly right to suspend the account are they right to publicly name and shame me like that? Is this not poor customer relations? Surely this is a private issue between ourselves.

I think I should cancel my account with these people. What do you thnk?

Thanks

nikimere

I'm sure they are perfectly within their rights to say what they did, however it's not the type of company i'd like to deal with if that's the way they do business.
Why don't you name and shame them too

seamus

Bad form maybe, but I can't see anything wrong with it - they haven't defamed you because the non-payment is the truth and can be proven.

Many of the Control Panel systems will come with default system messages like this one, so it's possible that they just never reviewed the system messages (or aren't able to change them) - i.e. nobody specifically logged into your account and put that message up just to piss you off.

Explain your story to them, and mention (nicely but firmly) that you absolutely didn't appreciate that message being shown to your customers. The company may be horrified about the message and might offer you a discount.

py2006

Yea I sent them an email saying how dissapointed I was to see that statement was left on my site and that I was strongly considering cancelling my account.

I did acknowledge that I agreed the account should be suspended but I didn't get notice of this.

CoNfOuNd

When I do have to suspend a customers account I'd generally just say "This account has been suspended. Please contact customer support."

I'd avoid putting any reason as to why it has been suspended, but I still get customers angry that I've suspended their account even if they haven't paid.

I wouldn't personally leave the host if everything else has been perfect. I would just provide feedback to them saying you are not happy.

PixelTrawler

Disgraceful really.

If, and a big if - they made repeated attempts to get in touch and were absolutely sure you were not making payments, then maybe. And then only as a last straw. And even then I wouldnt agree with it!

They really should consider how an action on their part could impact other peoples business, especially since mistakes happen (as seems to be the case here). Imagine how it looks to your audience.

I would consider it a gross breach of privacy and is a childish attempt to embarrass people into payment. It would be like ESB printing a list of those with overdue bills. Sure, the message might be a system message and a default but I would hazard a guess the display of the message and the text of it in this case is designed to humiliate customers into payment.

Leave them.

I wouldn't name them here though, you'd only be going down to their level.
I would make it very clear to this company though when you leave, why you are leaving.

Note: since you seem to have resolved your issue I hope they apologiesed for the message displayed, and did they mention they would prevent it being displayed in future - if not, I suspect it wasnt displayed "by accident" or was just an unchanged system message

py2006

Joebloggs4817 wrote:

Disgraceful really.

If, and a big if - they made repeated attempts to get in touch and were absolutely sure you were not making payments, then maybe. And then only as a last straw. And even then I wouldnt agree with it!

They really should consider how an action on their part could impact other peoples business, especially since mistakes happen (as seems to be the case here). Imagine how it looks to your audience.

I would consider it a gross breach of privacy and is a childish attempt to embarrass people into payment. It would be like ESB printing a list of those with overdue bills. Sure, the message might be a system message and a default but I would hazard a guess the display of the message and the text of it in this case is designed to humiliate customers into payment.

Leave them.

I wouldn't name them here though, you'd only be going down to their level.
I would make it very clear to this company though when you leave, why you are leaving.

Note: since you seem to have resolved your issue I hope they apologiesed for the message displayed, and did they mention they would prevent it being displayed in future - if not, I suspect it wasnt displayed "by accident" or was just an unchanged system message

Well I have yet to get a response from them. If I don't get a positive response I will change hosts. Probably to an Irish one.

Would they release my domain to me if I cancelled my account?

steve-hosting36

We, for example, simply state 'suspended' on the account, and that's after daily email warnings for 14 days (past the payment emails).

Citing the suspension reason is breach of privacy and etiquette if not quite a legal issue.

As for the domain name, as long as you are the admin-c on the domain whois, then you should be able to do what you want with it.

ChicoMendez

i have been dealing with a client for about 3 years now - which is abotu to come to an end thank god! and i did the exact same to them 2 days ago

why - they have repeatedly refused to pay invoices on time and are regularly 8 months late - i told them i was cutting the site on aug 15th and they did not even have the curtosy to reply - however when i have thier site down (tens of thousands of hits per week) with ' this company does not pay thier invoices '- it does not take them long to get the finger out !

im not saying it was right for your provider to cut your services but in certain circumstances its the only way to go!

py2006

ChicoMendez wrote:

i have been dealing with a client for about 3 years now - which is abotu to come to an end thank god! and i did the exact same to them 2 days ago

why - they have repeatedly refused to pay invoices on time and are regularly 8 months late - i told them i was cutting the site on aug 15th and they did not even have the curtosy to reply - however when i have thier site down (tens of thousands of hits per week) with ' this company does not pay thier invoices '- it does not take them long to get the finger out !

im not saying it was right for your provider to cut your services but in certain circumstances its the only way to go!

I can understand that and as I said I agree with my account being temporarily suspended but I just took offense to this. It suggests I am a chancer or something.

I had the credit card out in front of me ready to renew this morning but I just happened to check my site and I was shocked.

py2006

steve-hosting36 wrote:

As for the domain name, as long as you are the admin-c on the domain whois, then you should be able to do what you want with it.

Well the domain came free with the hosting plan so I could be caught out there.

PixelTrawler

steve-hosting36 wrote:

We, for example, simply state 'suspended' on the account, and that's after daily email warnings for 14 days (past the payment emails).

Citing the suspension reason is breach of privacy and etiquette if not quite a legal issue.

As for the domain name, as long as you are the admin-c on the domain whois, then you should be able to do what you want with it.

Thats the proper way to do it, good stuff.

WeeDiddly

If they're anyways a decent host,they'll give you control of the domain name should you decide to move host. and if they do ring you to complain, then you can leave feedback to them about how they embarrassed you.

If I had hosting, and I was a professional, with my portfolio or something that important on the site.. something like "Payment not received", basically "Our client appears to be bankrupt, or else is a fraud, now we're shaming them" really does not help your vital reputation.

If it was a cycling club like what I'm doing atm, at least you could say that the club doesn't have money to throw away, and is not able to afford their website, but I feel that it's disgraceful.

py2006

I have yet to get a response from these people!!

eoinhealy

I use a company called webstorm.ie to buy all my domain names and they host some of them. They are fantastic, if you have any problems at all you can call them and they are quite nice on the phone. They give you complete control over your domain name and hosting. I reckon they are that good I have bought 6 domain names through them. There hosting package is pretty cool, it has this deadly site builder program built into it that is possibly the easiest in the world to use.

Jeasus!, sounds like im advertising for them... Suppose you could call it a good reference.

Chow for Now

steve-hosting36

You sure it's www.webstorm.ie, as they're down at the moment?

CoNfOuNd

Stephen > They aren't just down. They aren't registered!

CoNfOuNd

Correction : it's stormweb.ie

AARRRGH

webstorm.ie sounds nicer than stormweb.ie

eoinhealy

steve-hosting36 wrote: »

You sure it's www.webstorm.ie, as they're down at the moment?

Sorry about that, stormweb is the company.

I didnt realise a silly misspell could cause such a riot. LoL

ethernet

py2006 wrote: »

Hi all,

I recently came back home from being abroad for a few weeks. There was several emails in my account from my hosting provider saying that my credit card details were out of date.

I went to check my site and I was horrified to see that they left a statement on my site saying:

"This account has been suspended for non-payment"

While they are possibly right to suspend the account are they right to publicly name and shame me like that? Is this not poor customer relations? Surely this is a private issue between ourselves.

I think I should cancel my account with these people. What do you thnk?

Thanks

Hope this makes you feel better. PC World's Irish site has been suspended too, or so it would appear: http://www.pcworld.ie/error.shtml

miju

so has halfords.ie

Ziycon

ethernet wrote: »

Hope this makes you feel better. PC World's Irish site has been suspended too, or so it would appear: http://www.pcworld.ie/error.shtml

All the DSG sites have been suspended!

mneylon

miju wrote: »

so has halfords.ie

That's been like that for a couple of months now

miju

yeah i know, makes you wonder why as they lost about €300 of sales from me last month cos I couldnt browse their wares on the site

Seth Brundle

Im surprised that BOLLEAUX.COM who I suspect are related to dreamhost (Halfords host) is selling Halfords related domain names. I wonder if Halfords are aware.
http://bolleaux.com/domains/for_sale/

the_syco

py2006 wrote: »

I went to check my site and I was horrified to see that they left a statement on my site saying:

"This account has been suspended for non-payment"

To me, that's saying "our service works, the page is not down, the owner just owes us monies", to be honest.

seamus

In fairness, even "Account Suspended" says all those things. There is nothing to be gained by including the "non-payment" bit except to embarrass your customer.

Seth Brundle

(thread resurrected from the dead)

Does anyone know exactly what the legal situation with this is? (I'm not looking for legal advice).

A client of mine who repeatedly would not make any attempt to pay their bill for hosting & domain renewal had the site pulled and a line similar to the one the OP got put up instead (1st invoice sent in Feb IIRC).

Email arrived today demanding an apology, €1200 per day for the "injurious and slanderous description" (honestly the line on the site is like the OPS) and suggesting that a claim for damages will be made.

Now whilst their demands are farcical (they can go and *****) especially as the domain and hosting are both in my name, I'm curious to know how far can someone go before it does become a legal issue?
What do you guys do when someone refuses to cough up?

CoNfOuNd

Our services are pre-pay, so if someone refuses to pay, they don't get any services in the first place. If they fail to renew, we'll try to contact them, but it's not always possible.

I'd love to know where the client creates the €1200 figure from.

Did they make payments in previous years? Did they agree to T&Cs when they signed up?

jhegarty

kbannon wrote: »

"injurious and slanderous description" ?

If it's true it can't be slanderous... but I would be 99% it's a breach of data protection act to publish that someone has not paid their bill...

smemon

jhegarty wrote: »

If it's true it can't be slanderous... but I would be 99% it's a breach of data protection act to publish that someone has not paid their bill...

But it wouldn't say 'this guy hasn't paid his bill' - it would just be 'account suspended' which imo is perfectly fair.

Most hosting and domains are paid with paypal or a CC and relatively long term ~1 year +.

During that time there's a good chance the CC will have expired, paypal will have closed or be empty etc...

jhegarty

but kbannon said it was similar to the op which was "This account has been suspended for non-payment"

Seth Brundle

jhegarty wrote: »

If it's true it can't be slanderous... but I would be 99% it's a breach of data protection act to publish that someone has not paid their bill...

How would it breach data protection? it doesn't name anyone - it simply states that the account was suspended for non payment.

jhegarty

kbannon wrote: »

How would it breach data protection? it doesn't name anyone - it simply states that the account was suspended for non payment.

I presume the domain names identifies the client, or does through google cache of the site

Seth Brundle

CoNfOuNd wrote: »

Did they make payments in previous years? Did they agree to T&Cs when they signed up?

Payment was supposedly up front but although domain was renewed, they didn't pay so eventually the a/c was altered as I already mentioned. It wasn't an automatic renewal type thing - more of a "I'll send you the invoice" type arrangement as per previous years.

Seth Brundle

jhegarty wrote: »

I presume the domain names identifies the client, or does through google cache of the site

Yes to both

jhegarty

kbannon wrote: »

Yes to both

Is the client a company of person ?

I am not 100% sure on the rules for a ltd company , but for a person you would be in breach

Seth Brundle

Its a company

miju

jhegarty wrote: »

If it's true it can't be slanderous... but I would be 99% it's a breach of data protection act to publish that someone has not paid their bill...

wrong. If it's true you can still be sued for slanderous comments just not libel.

mneylon

Slander and Libel are pretty much the same thing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander_and_libel

It has to be untrue. If it's true I don't see how it could be slander or libel

miju

what I meant was according to the Irish Statute book and the Defamation Act 1961 they are named seperately as in to libel someone is .... and to slander someone is ......

regi

Just because someone's embarrassed doesn't automatically mean that its libel or slander :-)

EKRIUQ

I think on a business sense just putting the words This account has been suspended should suffice and tell them its an automated thing with your servers when they ring. Some people are just slow payers. You may of had a chance of getting your €1,200 then but now you've just incurred an angry customer who will do their best not to pay you as well as bad will and future work.

Here's a couple of examples I've seen

http://www.theemeraldgroup.ie/index.html

http://gsinaturalwoodflooring.com/

Here's a link to thread regarding PC Worlds site, if they can do it to them I sure you could do it to you client

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=71167

mneylon

regi wrote: »

Just because someone's embarrassed doesn't automatically mean that its libel or slander :-)

Exactly

Unfortunately a lot of Irish companies seem to think that they are the same thing

Sully

Why do people think that hosting providers should not suspend a clients website if they dont pay their bill? If a good bit of notice has been given that a bill is due on X date, and the client doesnt pay - do you expect the host to sit around waiting for the client to pay when he feels like it?

You wouldnt be able to get a car and not pay for it. You cant go into a shop, buy a product and pay when you feel like it. Im sure the ESB would suspend your account if you didnt pay also.

mneylon

miju wrote: »

what I meant was according to the Irish Statute book and the Defamation Act 1961 they are named seperately as in to libel someone is .... and to slander someone is ......

The difference is due to the method.
One is written whereas the other is verbal

Seth Brundle

Sully wrote: »

Why do people think that hosting providers should not suspend a clients website if they dont pay their bill? If a good bit of notice has been given that a bill is due on X date, and the client doesnt pay - do you expect the host to sit around waiting for the client to pay when he feels like it?

You wouldnt be able to get a car and not pay for it. You cant go into a shop, buy a product and pay when you feel like it. Im sure the ESB would suspend your account if you didnt pay also.

I suppose the difference between a website and the ESB is that the ESB just cut you off but in many ways, nobody else knows. When a site is pulled for non payment, does the host/developer/whoever have the right to display a message like the OPs/mine?

PixelTrawler

I dont think its a right or wrong issue, but is it proper conduct on your part?
Even if you have the right, should you?
Lets face it, the message was designed to embarrass them publicly into payment. It would have been better to put a message up such as "Site Inactive" and give no reason whats the matter (I 100% understand your frustration though)

On the other hand, €1200 compensation per day:eek:... tell them to try, theres no way they'd get it (after all they were the ones making non-payment). Thats crazy. (Bear in mind I have zero legal expertise!)

Either way your business relationship is now in the toilet and the best course of action now is to terminate it as prudently as possible. Agree a compromise that you will assist them to find their own hosting provider, and say you'll work with any future developer to transition code etc and offload it. You are better off without them

Lets face it, they had no intention of paying, so why hang on to them?

Best of luck with it.

If need be seek legal advice...

jhegarty

Sully wrote: »

Why do people think that hosting providers should not suspend a clients website if they dont pay their bill? If a good bit of notice has been given that a bill is due on X date, and the client doesnt pay - do you expect the host to sit around waiting for the client to pay when he feels like it?

You wouldnt be able to get a car and not pay for it. You cant go into a shop, buy a product and pay when you feel like it. Im sure the ESB would suspend your account if you didnt pay also.

This isn't the esb cutting you off , it's the esb cutting you off and hanging a large sign on the pole outside your house telling people they cut you off for not paying the bill

Kila

Namesco wrote: »

Some people are just slow payers. You may of had a chance of getting your €1,200 then but now you've just incurred an angry customer who will do their best not to pay you as well as bad will and future work.

I used to work in a small company that had problems with debt collection (i.e. people not paying us, and the company being too scared to chase the debts), and the "slow payers" argument was used then too. To be honest, I think it's a really flawed argument.

Some people may just be "slow payers" but they have no right to be. If a bill is due, it's due. You can't just put it off a few months because you can't be bothered, or because it suits you better. The only reason people get away with being slow payers is because people just let them away with it, because in Ireland, people seem to think it's ok to owe people money for months on end, and dodge the bullet every time an invoice is sent.

I think it's ludicrous that companies have to walk on eggshells around people who owe them money for a service they've provided, when it should really be the other way around! If someone owes you money, they owe you money, and it's a joke that you can't pursue collection of it for fear of upsetting the debtor in case they don't pay.