Cz 6.5 x 55 ? any views ?

NUTTA1

Hi all !

I am thinking of buying a 6.5 x 55 rifle !

I have never owned a gun but have been shooting a .22 for months , I was told to go for a CZ
6.5x55 and have been told for the money I can spend I can get a new one and still have plenty left for a desent scope etc .

I been reading the threads on here and there is no mention of them and that got me thinking may be there is a reason for that !

Ps what's a desent make and model of scope for around the 200euro mark?

Sparks

What were you thinking of using it for?

NUTTA1

Should have said! it will be mostly target shooting but there is a few of us who will be going after deer !

It was one of the experianced deer lads that suggested that gun !

Sparks

If it's target shooting, to be honest, I'd stick to .22lr. More ranges and more matches to go to, cheaper ammunition and not so much hassle with licencing. Learn to shoot using the .22 and go to some matches and see what interests you the most and go from there.

If that doesn't appeal, I can't speak to the deer hunting, but I've heard a fair few people say they use the 6.5 for that. For target shooting with fullbores, lots of different calibres get used for various matches, so you have to know what you want to do - ISSF 300m uses up to 8mm, but 6mmBR is the current favorite; target rifle uses .308 I think, so does palma and a few others; but I can't think of anyone using 6.5 right now. Maybe some of the fullbore shooters can help out?

rrpc

Sparks wrote:

If it's target shooting, to be honest, I'd stick to .22lr. More ranges and more matches to go to, cheaper ammunition and not so much hassle with licencing. Learn to shoot using the .22 and go to some matches and see what interests you the most and go from there.

I think he's referring to full-bore target shooting. In any case the 6.5x55 is not a very used round as I believe it's relatively expensive compared to the other calibres such as 6mm BR Norma, 7.62 etc.

BryanL

7.62 is a pig on recoil compared to 6.5
and when you are buying ammo,good ammo in any calibre is going to cost you
Bryan

rrpc

BryanL wrote:

7.62 is a pig on recoil compared to 6.5
and when you are buying ammo,good ammo in any calibre is going to cost you
Bryan

Specialist ammo is always more expensive. It's just that the more widely used stuff is produced in bigger quantities and can be significantly cheaper. I haven't looked at the price of these rounds in a long time, but I do remember a poster here saying taht the 6.5 was relatively more expensive.

Might be an idea to put up a price comparison for the OP.

Sparks

BryanL wrote:

when you are buying ammo,good ammo in any calibre is going to cost you
Bryan

Yup. Nearly seven euro per 500 for .177 pellets these days, and .22lr is nearly up to twelve euro for a hundred rounds for the really good stuff...

rrpc

Sparks wrote:

Yup. Nearly seven euro per 500 for .177 pellets these days, and .22lr is nearly up to twelve euro for a hundred rounds for the really good stuff...

Try doubling that Sparks and add a bit as well. Tenex EPS is around €27/100. Lapua Midas is in and around the same. I think €24/100 would be the best you could get that for.

Lapua Master is running currently at €14/100 and I believe that's going up to €16/100!

Sparks

Tenex EPS isn't the really good stuff rrpc, I was thinking R50

Sharpie

Is anyone here using these for deer? I am looking at one of these also and would be interested to hear how they find the 6.5x55 round as well as the gun.

rrpc

Sparks wrote:

Tenex EPS isn't the really good stuff rrpc, I was thinking R50

Oh! Well that's *only* about €22/100

Sparks

Depends on where you get it

fathersymes

I use a Sako 6.5x55 for deer, have yet to see one run away! Low recoil also making it good for target.

Some do say that it is too slow for deer due to the fact that factory ammo is catering for use in vintage guns with lower pressure withstanding abilities.

By "too slow" I mean the velocity and corresponding energy delivery is considered by some to be insuficient to cosistently humanly kill. I have personally found this to be rubbish. The Scandinavians use the 6.5x55 on moose all the time.

sixpointfive

its a quality round, have been using it for years on all breeds of deer and cant fault it at all, the ammo thing is the key as with any calibre, i found Norma 125gr ballistic tip the most consistent and fantastic stopping power even on reds, fairly pricey but the old saying is true, you get what you pay for and you pay for what you get.

Sharpie

I looked at a Sako 75 in 6.5x55. Very nice piece of kit indeed. Love to go for one but by the time I add scope etc it is way out of my budget.

Dare I ask, but what are the thoughts on these compared to .243? Is it a case of 6 of 1 and a half dozen of the other type of thing?

fathersymes

There is a lot of arguement regarding .243 and its suitability on larger deer. In the states the .243 is considered to be a "varmint" round, generally meaning vermin like coyotes.

I would say go for something a bit bigger for deer, why not give them a bigger punch and therefore a more humane kill.

25-06, 6.5x55, 30-06 etc..

bogteal

i use cz 6.5 with lapua 139g never had any run away , i found 270 and 308 had to much of a kick. with deer shooting in ireland you very rearley shoot out past 150 meters i think its a great gun, as for target shooting i have no idea.

.243

i use the .243 and never had to put a second round in to drop a deer be it sika or red,its all about bullet placement, with low recoil and doubles up as a great foxing weapon plus if you read this months target sports a guy won the sporter class at 400yrds with a bog standard remmy 700 with no mods done to it at all,"bigger aint always better".

NUTTA1

Thanks for the info lads !

Any thoughts on the scope side of things , ie good models and suitable powers , I don't quite understand the values (sorry for my inexperiance but we all gotta start somewhere !)
Ie 6-25x50 ??

Beware novice buying a gun over here !!!

fathersymes

Firstly the first 2 numbers mean it is a variable power scope, from 6 power to 25 power of magnification. The last number is the objective lens, the larger this is the more light gathering ability (important for dusk and dawn shooting) when deer are moving.

For deer hunting go for either a fixed power scope of 6 or 8 by 50 or 56. Or a variable of 2.5-12x56. Although in practice you will probably leave it set at 6 or 8 power if it's variable power.

For target higher the better, nightforce make them up to 42 power.

Finally, do spend money on your scope, you will only need to buy it once and will last a lifetime. Approx 1000 euros for a Schmidt & Bender, Zeiss, Swarovski.

NUTTA1

Well FU@K me !!

E1000 for the scope that's more than the gun !

I do however see the rational in what you are saying plus it can be used on any gun I buy in the future !


The place I am buying me gun told me they had a good one for three hundred new but I would not need it at this stage (not sure of make or power ) and suggested one for one eighty but it can't be very good if that cheap I will check make and let you know !

Thanks for the power stuff it helps to know a bit about these things before buying !

Sparks

Nutta, when you said you'd been shooting for a while with a club .22, how long is a while?

fathersymes

Nutta, trust me on this. If you buy a cheap scope and put it on a fullbore it will not hold zero.

1,000 isn't a lot of money for your sport and especially if it is going to last a lifetime. Go to the credit union and pay it off over a few years, tenner a week type of thing.

If you're really stuck with the money you can get a Leupold from the states for 500ish. I did this but secretly wanted a German Scope. Leupold are very good scopes.

I learned a long time ago that if you buy cheap you buy twice!

NUTTA1

Been shooting .22 for about six months ! Only at targets but I would like to get into a bit of hunting now !

I was talking to a dealer today that was explaining that the rifle I'm after would be more hunting than target although I would wish to do both , he suggested a tikka T3 .308 tactical would be a fine target and hunting rifle !

Sorry to add this to the mix but what do u reckon
?

It would be deer hunting and 300+ target stuff mostly !!

fathersymes

Tikka are a great rifle, made by Sako, very accurate. .308 is good for deer and targets. The tactical might be a little heavy for walking around all day. I use a Sako varmint(heavy) barrel and am thinking of changing to something very light for hunting. Remember you will be adding a scope, maybe bipod, sling. They all add to the weight.

bunny shooter

6.5x55 SE is a good all round calibre. There are a good few in use on ranges throughout the country and a lot of deer shooters are using it too.

It is a highly regarded round, even by the americans and they have access to a lot more calibres than we probably ver will.

I am awaiting a licence foe this calibre in a swedish mauser. I will be target shooting (informal) with it but not F Class. I have been studying calibres for a good while, 5 years to be honest, and the 6.5x55 SE is definately my choice. It is a good long range performer, there is excellent factory ammo available and aparently it is east to reload for

Kryten

I know of a CZ550 for sale in 6.5mm. Only had a couple of hundred rounds through it. Complete with Iron sights, Good quality scope(dont know which make) and a bipod. Let me know if you are interested.

Fired it once at targets out to 300m. Well impressed by the accuracy.

Sparks

Do none of the fullbore shooters here think that maybe a Tikka .308 might be a bit too much rifle to be going to after only six months of .22lr shooting?

Hezz700

I agree with you Sparks, He'd be better off going for .223 or similar and gradually build up if he feels the need to. Theres a big difference in the abilities of .22 and .308.

.308 can have quite a harsh recoil (depending on barrell lenght and the like). a newbie unfamiliar with centerfire rifles might very quickly develop a flinch which can be very hard if not impossible to shake.

fathersymes

If he's keen to hunt deer, then a 6.5x55 is the best choice as the .223 isn't allowed here. Some induction or training would be a good idea with a fullbore to understand its potential and for safety issues. Thats where the club come in.

Another option is to fit a moderator, I fired a .308 in the UK which had one fitted and recoil was slightly more than a .22, no muzzle blast, which can be very offputting for a beginner. Aparently a moderator will improve accuracy, don't know why. Perhaps it stabilises the bullet just that little bit. What I do know is that some bullets need 100metres before they stabilise and reach a consistent trajectory.

Sparks

Can't think why a moderator would improve accuracy, unless it was dropping the speed of the round to subsonic before it left the barrel...

rrpc

Sparks wrote:

Can't think why a moderator would improve accuracy, unless it was dropping the speed of the round to subsonic before it left the barrel...

I doubt it would chop two thirds of the speed of the round off!

Hezz700

Sparks wrote:

Can't think why a moderator would improve accuracy, unless it was dropping the speed of the round to subsonic before it left the barrel...

Why not?? The Moderator is channeling off excess gases and unburnt propellants(perhaps), which are unstable. Also most mods i've seen/used are precisely engineered with excellent crowns.

Sparks

the Moderator is channeling off excess gases and unburnt propellant(perhaps) with are unstable.

Well, yes, they're unstable - but they're also behind the bullet. And if you were getting non-negligible pressure differentials across the base of the bullet, you'd notice excessive crown wearing and you'd never have decent accuracy; and if you bled off the gas and unburnt propellant behind, you wouldn't do much good because you'd still have had that inital shove to one side of the base of the round in the barrel and unless the moderator is so well machined that the bullet is in as much contact with it as it was with the lands, getting rid of the thing that gave the shove won't fix the problem.

I just don't see it happening unless the moderator slows the bullet significantly (as rrpc said, it's unlikely to get it subsonic), or the moderator is so well machined that it's effectively an extention on the barrel.

Hezz700

It could be acting like a Boss system giving the perfect resonance for a particular barrall twist, bullet type combination?. that would'nt be unheard of:)

Sparks

I suppose that's possible, but then it's just the big lump of metal that's doing the tuning, it's got nothing to do with the fact that it's a moderator. Tyre balancing weights taped to the same spot would have the same effect.

Hezz700

Very true, but it does'nt take from the fact that if it works it works. be it a mod/lump of metal or a smarties tube.

.243

it reduces muzzle flip,when the bullet passes through the can the gas is held back in it so when you pull the trigger the recoil comes back square into your shoulder because its withheld in it.

Sparks

That wouldn't affect accuracy though 243, not unless you weren't seating the butt in your shoulder properly to begin with. Muzzle flip's only an issue with rapid-fire shooting.

Hezz700

Jayus Spark! There must be a bit of a terrier in you, you just won't let go:D

Just admiit its possible that, for whatever the reason may be mods can (and do) improve accurcacy;)

Sparks

Hezz, if they do, we ought to be able to figure out why. If you don't know why you do something, you may as well abandon pretending to know what you're doing and just label it magic and get it over with...

spideog7

Maybe it's all in your head, a slight apprehension of the big bang and kick, a tiniest of tiny flinch. But when you know it's just going to go "pop" then it's easier.

fathersymes

Extract from the article below:

One final advantage is that a sound moderator will improve accuracy and consistency shot to shot as the projectile exits the muzzle into still air within the moderator's chamber. This region of still air means the projectile always begins its flight in controlled and repeatable conditions, without the interference of any side winds or sudden gusts.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/sound_moderators.htm

Hezz700

All i know is that my Remmy groups consistently 1/4" tighter at 300 meters with my Ultra s5 attached than without. FACT. if you want to call it magic fine:rolleyes:

I do not pretent to be all knowing but i've seen it with my own two eyes and therefore cannot dismiss theories just because they do not sit well in my little world.

Sparks

That's not a theory Hezz, it's an assumption.
How do you know that the rifle isn't in fact less accurate with the moderator on, but you don't flinch as much when you fire, giving you overall more accurate end results?
And if that is what happens, wouldn't the better idea be to train out the flinch and get even more accurate end results?

Wanting to know what's happening and why isn't a bad thing, y'know...

Keelan

Hezz700 wrote:

All i know is that my Remmy groups consistently 1/4" tighter at 300 meters with my Ultra s5 attached than without. FACT. if you want to call it magic fine:rolleyes:

I do not pretent to be all knowing but i've seen it with my own two eyes and therefore cannot dismiss theories just because they do not sit well in my little world.

Agree totally. I have shot with mod on, total difference. I have never sufferd from flinch. Its a fact, mods DO, improove accuracy, in centerfire and rimfire rifles.

Keelan.

Sparks

I have never sufferd from flinch.

How can you tell?

And if mods do improve accuracy in rimfire rifles, why aren't they the very first thing added to ISSF and Benchrest rifles? (Okay, maybe the ISSF one's not fair since they're against the rules, but Benchrest? If mods gave an accuracy improvement, I'd expect to see every benchrest rifle ever made having a moderator on it). I've looked, I can't find any studies showing that a moderator improves accuracy. The only place I've seen claims to that effect are on the websites and adverts of people selling suppressors, and you'll forgive me if I take those claims with a pinch of salt

Hezz700

I do not Suffer from a flinch factor. The Remmy i speak of is a .22 centerfire, hardly what you'd associate heavy recoil with( that was you making an assumption) and when firing unmoderated i very wisely use hearing protection which eliminates potential flinch due to sonic boom.

Wanting to know why is indeed a good thing,on that we do agree. But its not me sitting on the rocking horse with a closed mind

Sparks

Hezz700 wrote:

I do not Suffer from a flinch factor.

Good grief, have we found a new social taboo amongst shooters?
I don't Flinch, I've never even been flinch-curious!

The Remmy i speak of is a .22 centerfire, hardly what you'd associate heavy recoil with( that was you making an assumption)

Hezz, you have to train against flinching with air rifles, let alone any form of cartridge rifle!

and when firing unmoderated i very wisely use hearing protection which eliminates potential flinch due to sonic boom.

No, it doesn't. Flinch can be triggered by noise, yes, but also by the impact of the recoil, the visual cues of firing, any number of things.

Wanting to know why is indeed a good thing,on that we do agree. But its not me sitting on the rocking horse with a closed mind

If the closed mind is closed in that it won't accept an argument without evidence, then I'd like to be thought of as closed-minded please

Now, if you can show me the study that put a rifle action in a vice and fired on an indoor test range with the same batches of ammunition under the same conditions, both with and without a moderator and showed consistently over serveral batches that the moderator always improved accuracy, then I'm more than happy to say you're totally right and recommend one for anyone that can use one from that day onwards.

Hezz700

Flinch is caused by a person tensing up at the moment of firing. Its apprehension towards the bang, recoil etc etc. If you have a preconceived notion that the result of squeezing the trigger could be unpleasent, then you will flinch. I was always taught by my Granddad "hold firm but be relaxed" and it has held be good stead so far

The only thing that makes me flinch is a 30yr old 5lbs s/s Zabala, kick like a mule.

If i can find a suitable study, I'll wrap it up i a pink bow for you:)