One small step

connundrum

www.onesmallstep.ie

I was sitting in my car on the way to the shop, when they started talking about this thing. I love the way we've to be gimicked into being less lazy bastards*

I for one will probably not change a single thing in my life at the moment.. that said, I did go on a two mile walk on Saturday. I had to walk to collect my car as there was no one around to give me a lift

Thoughts anyone? I'll admit that I'm a caraholic, and since I got the company van I can't remember the last time I 'walked' anywhere voluntarily. Maybe an aul change is necessary.



*Said without sarcasm. I enjoy the way we're sold ideas that are good for us, makes me feel mammy'd... except its Bertie doing the mammying. At least he's decent sized moobs

Dirk Gently

People won’t take any notice but can't fault the message. Too many people have too many cars and use them too often. I work in logistics in the transport industry and tbh Dublin is nothing more than one big car park. One crash can bring the city to a stand still or one event at the point or Lansdowne.

Schools are back this week and soon there will be late night shopping coming up to Christmas.
If some of the yummy mummies left the SUV at home and walked the half a mile to the school it would free up traffic greatly, like wise if people who work within a few miles of their jobs walked / cycled / used public transport the city would move better. Some people have no alternative to buying an overpriced status symbol to get around in but a hell of a lot of people do have alternatives, or at least can cut down a lot on when they need to use a car.

The problem is people are obsessed with cars as much as property and there simply isn't enough room in the city to build all the roads needed to take the volume. Pearse Street is the worst street in Europe and anywhere along the quays / city centre, nass road, heading out to blanch....the whole city basically will get progressively worse in the run up to Christmas.

Nothing will change though because people have been marketed to value their freedom of owning a car and sitting in traffic 5 hours a day.

Black Swan

Public transport is a joke in So Cal. Most everyone drives, and sits in those huge parking lots called freeways going to and from work.

monkeyfudge

I wouldn't be a fan of cars so I walk to and from work.

I don't mind bussing it into town.. my area is fairly well serviced and you can get a lot of thinking done on the bus.

AlmightyCushion

I can't drive mainly because I have never needed to. I walk evertwhere or get public transport.

Ruu_Old

I use the bus as much as possible unless I have to go to the hardware shop (a great deal as of late) then I'd have to borrow a jeep.

Jesus Wept

People do take the p!ss though, one of the people I live with gets into his van and drives to the local spar, it's 2 mins walk away, you can almost see it from our house, lol.

Reku

Yup, we're lazy tossers, problem is people won't change unless forced (due to being lazy tossers...) and then you have them whinging about their rights and Ireland being a "nanny state".
IMO they should
1. Ban all privately owned vehicles larger than a motorbike (excluding sidecart) unless they are a taxi (public transport IMO) or delivery truck (kinda needed by the shops) from D1 and D2 (the city centre). And yes I mean they should ban privately owned buses too, they've too much of a habit of parking in places that just block up traffic and it's not like the little walk into the centre, or to a stop for a bus heading in, would kill anyone.
2. Make the bus lanes more stable, instead they currently appear and disappear at random along the routes.
3. Same for cycle lanes, too many cyclists complain about this and the difficulties (with pedestrian and road users) that result when cycle lanes are poorly marked out. It would be one less deterant to cycling if fixed
4. More park and ride locations. And make them well laid out so that people can easily find a spot, park, and get to the nearby bus/luas stop.
5. Have the bus-stops fitted with a display stating the approximate time until the next bus (done in many other countries so why not here) and have them fitted so that they can be tracked, allowing as accurate a ETA as possible.
6. More buses and drives so no route has more than ~20 minutes between buses, preferably ~15.
7. Space out the bus stops a bit more, having one stop on a route every ~100m is a bit daft.

Think that might get people to stop being lazy (and although the whingers will undoubtedly be blind to the fact it would get what traffic there is flowing far quicker, allowing people to get home faster and more accurate timetables on public transport), but can you really see any of that happening? Severely doubt it...

On the plus side I'd imagine a heart attack is quite painful so haha lazy buggers!

Hagar

farohar wrote:

1. Ban all privately owned vehicles larger than a motorbike (excluding sidecart) unless they are a taxi (public transport IMO) or delivery truck (kinda needed by the shops) from D1 and D2 (the city centre). And yes I mean they should ban privately owned buses too, they've too much of a habit of parking in places that just block up traffic and it's not like the little walk into the centre, or to a stop for a bus heading in, would kill anyone.
2. Make the bus lanes more stable, instead they currently appear and disappear at random along the routes.
3. Same for cycle lanes, too many cyclists complain about this and the difficulties (with pedestrian and road users) that result when cycle lanes are poorly marked out. It would be one less deterant to cycling if fixed
4. More park and ride locations. And make them well laid out so that people can easily find a spot, park, and get to the nearby bus/luas stop.
5. Have the bus-stops fitted with a display stating the approximate time until the next bus (done in many other countries so why not here) and have them fitted so that they can be tracked, allowing as accurate a ETA as possible.
6. More buses and drives so no route has more than ~20 minutes between buses, preferably ~15.
7. Space out the bus stops a bit more, having one stop on a route every ~100m is a bit daft.

1. Dublin buses never cause other road user inconvenience with their parking?
2. Why do you need bus lanes if there are no cars?
3. Why do you need cycle lanes if there are no cars?
4. If there are no private cars what is going to be parked in the "park and ride locations"?
5. Great idea.
6. Why such long gaps between buses? Lots more buses would be needed in the absence of all cars.
7. Not a bad idea.

Now that you have dried up the revenue screwed from the motorists at present how are you going to fund all this?

Zebra3

The-Rigger wrote:

People do take the p!ss though, one of the people I live with gets into his van and drives to the local spar, it's 2 mins walk away, you can almost see it from our house, lol.

And that type of person is usually the fat bastard who needs the exercise.

Glowing

I've started cycling to work mainly for both environmental reasons and to get fitter.

As a cyclist in Dublin, you take your life into your hands. On my route from Dundrum to Leopardstown, the cycle paths end in a dead end occasionally, are covered in glass from the broken bus shelters (can you imagine falling off your bike onto this?), and certain sections have no room for two lanes of cars, not to mention a bike. I was so close to being hit on a roundabout last week because a driver didn't have the patience to wait for me to clear his exit so he slammed on the accelerator and 'went for it' nearly knocking me in the process.

With drivers like this who have no regard for cyclists and a crap cycle lane system, I'm not surprised people prefer the safety of their cars.

tallus

My car got pranged in min June so I had no choice but to walk. Since then I have gone out every single day for a minimum of 30 minutes walk. I have to say it feels great to be doing it and the weight is flying off me as I stopped drinking in January and stopped eating ****e food about two months later.
Now I drive only when I have to.

Hail 2 Da Chimp

I've being using public transport in my current job for a year now and 6 months previous to this job, when in college I usually walked. Some days I have to wait up to 1 hour for the bus / train so comming up to summer I will be doing as little of that as possible, buying a car as soon as I can afford it.
Since I run about 20Km most weeks I dont see exercise as being a factor.

Time Magazine

Cars aren't that bad.

I'm on a J1 at the moment and I did learn something new. There's an organisation working to pass a bill that would commit America to getting 20% of its electricity from renewable energy by 2020. This would be the equivalent of getting 89 million cars off the road. Solar panels FTW.

Umm Clonshaugh to Swords in Dublin. I would have to get a bus that would take an hour then I would have to walk to the bus stop which is 30 mins away from my house whereas I can take my car which takes 15 mins down

Is it any wonder I'm a caraholic but yeah I'm just a lazy bitch really

Spyral

Since I run about 20Km most weeks I dont see exercise as being a factor.

you a robber ? :P

I dont like cars, though they are more necessary in the country where there is less public transport than 40 years ago. However when Im in college in Wales Im in a town so I dont need transport other than me legs. Maybe its just their public transport is better maybe its the town factor maybe its coz i hve no other choice

seamus

Public transport is a bit of a nightmare in Dublin, which I would guess is the main cause of the car issue.

I'm going to sound like a broken record, but unless you're going from point A into the city centre (or the other way), then chances are the busses won't suit you. The routes simply aren't varied enough, and there aren't enough stops.
It's all well and good calling people lazy bastards, but unless the bus stop is less than ten minutes away, then what incentive are we giving people to get the bus? When I get the bus into work (about once a week), a full 30 minutes travelling time is me getting to and from the bus stops. 15 mins from my house to the stop, and 15 mins from the stop to work. I don't have parking in work, so driving isn't an option, but if I had the option of getting up an hour earlier to make the whole trip in a 30 minute drive, I would.

A lot of it isn't about laziness or status or snobbery, it's pure logistics. CSG's commute sums it up perfectly.

For the record, I cycle most days now. I'm pretty much looking forward to the cycle each day, particularly when I consider the alternative bus trip.

Glowing

Ibid wrote:

Cars aren't that bad.

I'm on a J1 at the moment and I did learn something new. There's an organisation working to pass a bill that would commit America to getting 20% of its electricity from renewable energy by 2020. This would be the equivalent of getting 89 million cars off the road. Solar panels FTW.

20%? 20% is nothing. It's countries like the US who should be aiming for 50% renewables. A combination of that and taking the 3 litre pickups from the 16 year olds and they might be getting somewhere.

Each person in the US emits 20 tones of CO2 per year, where as the average Irish/English person emits less than half that. For those of you who are going to bring up the 'Oh but look at what the Chinese are doing' argument, they emit less than 3 tonnes per person at the moment.

Well ALL need to be driving less (and when we do drive, at least in a reasonably efficient car!)

Dyr

seamus wrote:

I'm going to sound like a broken record, but unless you're going from point A into the city centre (or the other way), then chances are the busses won't suit you.

qft baby.

Having said it doesnt excuse the amount of single person cars on the road...i was stuck on a bus beside granby row yesterday for half an hour, 90% of the cars going past had only a driver in them, get a bike you f***in muppets. why there orta be a law....

seamus

farohar wrote:

1. Ban all privately owned vehicles larger than a motorbike (excluding sidecart) unless they are a taxi (public transport IMO) or delivery truck (kinda needed by the shops) from D1 and D2 (the city centre). And yes I mean they should ban privately owned buses too, they've too much of a habit of parking in places that just block up traffic and it's not like the little walk into the centre, or to a stop for a bus heading in, would kill anyone.

So you would expect tourists to hop off their bus in Rathgar and walk with their tonnes of luggage to Harcourt Street? Private busses have minimal impact in the city centre. I also wouldn't agree with an out-and-out ban on private vehicles in D1 & D2 - you're practically handing the taxis a monopoly. I would however agree with a tolling system for private vehicles, 7am - 7pm Monday - Saturday. The city centre is actually nice to drive through after 9pm during the week and taxis are the main cause of congestion, so a complete ban would be absolutely pointless.

2. Make the bus lanes more stable, instead they currently appear and disappear at random along the routes.

I do think they're working on this. The main issue is land. You can't sacrifice paths to make bus lanes, and in many places there simply isn't enough road to split it into two lanes.

5. Have the bus-stops fitted with a display stating the approximate time until the next bus (done in many other countries so why not here) and have them fitted so that they can be tracked, allowing as accurate a ETA as possible.

They had these "trialled" in Lucan for a couple of years. Then they pulled down all the old bus stops and never put the tracking systems back up. What happened to these?

jester77

I've never owned a car, never had a reason to own one and gotten by perfectly fine without one. When I was 25 I decided to get a license so I sat behind the wheel for the first time, 6 weeks later I had my license and my driving test was the last time I drove, no idea why I bothered!! People are just too lazy imo!

Glowing

jester77 wrote:

People are just too lazy imo!

I agree. But you also live in Hamburg right? Many people in Dublin don't have a choice, I imagine your public transport is a million times better than ours!

jester77

Glowing wrote:

I agree. But you also live in Hamburg right? Many people in Dublin don't have a choice, I imagine your public transport is a million times better than ours!

True, I've 2 u-bahn stations and I don't know how may bus stops within 5 mins of my apt. and my train for work goes every 2-3 mins. But even still the roads and packed here and a lot of people drive when they don't need to! Even when I lived in Ireland I got by without a car and that was with the real **** public transport.

Time Magazine

Glowing wrote:

20%? 20% is nothing. It's countries like the US who should be aiming for 50% renewables. A combination of that and taking the 3 litre pickups from the 16 year olds and they might be getting somewhere.

I agree.

Each person in the US emits 20 tones of CO2 per year, where as the average Irish/English person emits less than half that. For those of you who are going to bring up the 'Oh but look at what the Chinese are doing' argument, they emit less than 3 tonnes per person at the moment.

Wrong, Ireland is well over 10 tonnes at this stage. And China are well over 3 tonnes. Most of the growth in the next couple of decades will be from China. Per capita is useful for some purposes but, realistically, Ireland's footprint matters f*ck all. It's the large countries' per capita output that really matters.

Well ALL need to be driving less (and when we do drive, at least in a reasonably efficient car!)

No we don't. As I said, America getting just 20% of its electricity from renewable energy (15% passed the House of Congress, but may well be vetoed by You-Know-Who) is equivalent to getting 89 million cars off the road. Putting cars in the crossfire is a waste of time.

Glowing

Realistically, we can't point our finger at the big nations such as the US and China and expect them to make all the sacrafices, and do nothing ourselves just because we're a small country.

I agree that something serious needs to be done especially in the US. China has a huge potential for growth but we can't expect them to cease development now just because we don't want to make any sacrafices ourselves. The western countries should reduce their emissions to a reasonable level and the developing countries should be allowed to increase theirs so we can essentially meet in the middle.

Reku

Hagar wrote:

1. Dublin buses never cause other road user inconvenience with their parking?

1 bus = how many people as opposed to the car with probably only one lazy fatass, needs of the many. ;b

Hagar wrote:

2. Why do you need bus lanes if there are no cars?

the motorbikes, delivery trucks, garbage trucks, etc... stick your head out the car window a sec, there are plenty of other road users about.

Hagar wrote:

3. Why do you need cycle lanes if there are no cars?

see response to point 2 and add the fact that buses are as much a threat to cyclists as cars are.

Hagar wrote:

4. If there are no private cars what is going to be parked in the "park and ride locations"?

Thankfully the government has better reasoning than you do, the park and ride locations are not in the city centre.

Hagar wrote:

5. Great idea.
6. Why such long gaps between buses? Lots more buses would be needed in the absence of all cars.

Agree but felt it best to put a realistic goal as at times there are much longer gaps than that at the moment on all but the most frequent routes and they tend to have coaches instead of double deckers so they need the increased regularity.

Hagar wrote:

7. Not a bad idea.

Now that you have dried up the revenue screwed from the motorists at present how are you going to fund all this?

People who own cars will still have to pay road tax, whether or not you drive it on a day to day basis has no impact.
There are no toll booths in the city centre so no loss of revenue there.
The reduction in tax from petrol sales would probably be far surpassed by the increase in revenue that public transport recieves.
So can't see what you're getting at.

seamus wrote:

Public transport is a bit of a nightmare in Dublin, which I would guess is the main cause of the car issue.

And funnily enough it's fine if you travel at times where there is little traffic in the form of cars. Strange that...:rolleyes:

seamus wrote:

I'm going to sound like a broken record, but unless you're going from point A into the city centre (or the other way), then chances are the busses won't suit you. The routes simply aren't varied enough, and there aren't enough stops.

Actually I go from north side to south side by getting the right connections along the route. So it's not just in or out of the city centre.

seamus wrote:

It's all well and good calling people lazy bastards, but unless the bus stop is less than ten minutes away, then what incentive are we giving people to get the bus?

Exactly why they'd need to have the car option removed.

seamus wrote:

When I get the bus into work (about once a week), a full 30 minutes travelling time is me getting to and from the bus stops. 15 mins from my house to the stop, and 15 mins from the stop to work.

About the same sort of walking time I have each day to get between public transport connections.

seamus wrote:

A lot of it isn't about laziness or status or snobbery, it's pure logistics. CSG's commute sums it up perfectly.

Which would be completely unaffected by preventing people from driving their cars into the city centre, D17 - Swords you don't have to go anywhere near the City Centre.

seamus wrote:

So you would expect tourists to hop off their bus in Rathgar and walk with their tonnes of luggage to Harcourt Street? Private busses have minimal impact in the city centre.

Mostly they tend to be parked around monuments and such when I see them so I doubt the people on them have much in the way of luggage. If people want to go sightseeing around the city centre get a CIE bus into the city centre and then hop on their sight seeing tour buses.

seamus wrote:

I also wouldn't agree with an out-and-out ban on private vehicles in D1 & D2 - you're practically handing the taxis a monopoly.

There'll still be public transport so it's only a monopoly if everyone is too lazy to walk the 10-15 mins to their nearby bus stop. If people want to go north - south, or vice versa, but not into the city centre then there are already suitable routes, they're just not the most direct routes.

seamus wrote:

I would however agree with a tolling system for private vehicles, 7am - 7pm Monday - Saturday.

All that would happen is people would pay it, the quoted cost of living would go up and as a result so would the wage increases people would expect, nothing would be accomplished.

seamus wrote:

The city centre is actually nice to drive through after 9pm during the week

Agreed, once the commuter traffic is gone it's fine.

seamus wrote:

and taxis are the main cause of congestion, so a complete ban would be absolutely pointless.

lol, complete BS! Most of the traffic I see any time I'm stuck in it is privately owned cars.

seamus wrote:

I do think they're working on this. The main issue is land. You can't sacrifice paths to make bus lanes, and in many places there simply isn't enough road to split it into two lanes.

From what I've seen often they aren't even willing to give one lane of a double lane over to bus lanes.:(

seamus wrote:

They had these "trialled" in Lucan for a couple of years. Then they pulled down all the old bus stops and never put the tracking systems back up. What happened to these?

Hmmm... definitely would like to find out...
I'd imagine they would draw some vandalism at first but once the novelty wares off they'd get hit no more often than any other bus stop.

Damn... that's a long post... sorry!

faceman

the infrastructure in dublin isnt up to scratch. So many people are buying or have bought property outside the convential dublin ring and there is little or no adequate public transport to those areas.

very few bus routes go to areas other than the city centre.

this damn city needs a proper underground network.

Im stickin to my car or motorbike for the mo anyway.

oh as for park and ride, you have to pay to park in some of them!!!

seamus

farohar wrote:

And funnily enough it's fine if you travel at times where there is little traffic in the form of cars. Strange that...:rolleyes:

Completely disagree. The bus service is horrendous all of the time. Except for the nitelink, but then when you're pissed any lift is good.

Actually I go from north side to south side by getting the right connections along the route. So it's not just in or out of the city centre.

How many connections? It's ridiculous that in a relatively small city like ours, you may have to take a bus for 2 miles, then change, then another mile, then change, etc.

Which would be completely unaffected by preventing people from driving their cars into the city centre, D17 - Swords you don't have to go anywhere near the City Centre.

The city centre isn't the only part of Dublin that suffers from people overusing vehicles and poor public transport.

There'll still be public transport so it's only a monopoly if everyone is too lazy to walk the 10-15 mins to their nearby bus stop. If people want to go north - south, or vice versa, but not into the city centre then there are already suitable routes, they're just not the most direct routes.

You see, it's not about "forcing" people to use public transport. That doesn't give any incentive to improve public transport. You need to improve public transport and encourage people to use it because it's superior to the car, not force people to use an inferior service.
Even attempting to figure out what busses to take to get from point A to point B is a slog - the timetables are a shambles, and there are no definitive route maps published anywhere. Imagine two boxes on Dublin Bus's website - "Where are you now?", and "Where are you going?", and then it spits back a recommended journey with all your walks and changes along the way.
London can do it, why can't we?

lol, complete BS! Most of the traffic I see any time I'm stuck in it is privately owned cars.

I mean in the evenings. After 7.30pm Wed - Sat, it's all taxis. There's very little private traffic.

Glowing

Money is the worlds best motivator. If we made driving rediculously expensive and (an improved) public transport system dirt cheap to use, then I don't think we'd have such a traffic problem. As it stands I don't think the Luas is that much cheaper than driving every day.

azezil

30 minutes walk, well boo-fúcking-hoo ya lazy cúnt!
I do that every day, if I had a car I could be in work in less than 20 minutes, instead it takes me close to an hour with public transport and walking, but what feckin difference like, I'm healthier for it and I'm not adding to traffic congestion.

Hagar

Hagar originally said: 1. Dublin buses never cause other road user inconvenience with their parking?
Farohar responded with: 1 bus = how many people as opposed to the car with probably only one lazy fatass, needs of the many. ;b

Did you even read your own Point No 1? You wanted private buses off the road because the parked without consideration to other road users. My point is Dublin bus do the same abosulutely nothing to do with the number of potential passengers that the bus is capable of carrying. A parked bus, dripping diesel all over the road as they do, is carrying no passengers anywhere is it? It's just blocking up the road.

Hagar originally said: 2. Why do you need bus lanes if there are no cars?
Farohar responded with: the motorbikes, delivery trucks, garbage trucks, etc... stick your head out the car window a sec, there are plenty of other road users about.

The purpose of bus lanes was to segregate busses from the vast majority of other road users ie private cars. If the cars are gone why bother with bus lanes at all? Can't the buses use the whole road? Are we to expect a parade now of garbage trucks? I wish, maybe your plan also includes claening up the accumulated filth on the city streets? Surely delivery trucks should only have access to the city centre at certain times same as most other cities outside Ireland. Or do you propose that they can come and go all day as they please?

Hagar originally said: 3. Why do you need cycle lanes if there are no cars?
Farohar responded with: see response to point 2 and add the fact that buses are as much a threat to cyclists as cars are.

Your response to point 2 was flawed and hasn't got any better since.

Hagar originally said: 4. If there are no private cars what is going to be parked in the "park and ride locations"?
Farohar responded with: Thankfully the government has better reasoning than you do, the park and ride locations are not in the city centre.

Seriously, did you even read my question? I'll rephrase it, maybe that will help. What will people park in the park and ride if you have abolished ownership of private cars? Regardless of the location of these park and ride facilities they will be empty if you have you way because nobody will have any cars to park there!

Hagar originally said: 5. Great idea.
6. Why such long gaps between buses? Lots more buses would be needed in the absence of all cars.
Farohar responded with: Agree but felt it best to put a realistic goal as at times there are much longer gaps than that at the moment on all but the most frequent routes and they tend to have coaches instead of double deckers so they need the increased regularity.

Have you even made an estimate of the number of extra people that the buses will have to shift if cars are done away with? What size will the queues at the bus stops be. The stops will have to be put further apart, just to accomodate the number of people at each stop. The gaps between buses at the moment are way to long, that's why people are using cars!

Hagar originally said: 7. Not a bad idea. Now that you have dried up the revenue screwed from the motorists at present how are you going to fund all this?
Farohar responded with: People who own cars will still have to pay road tax, whether or not you drive it on a day to day basis has no impact.
There are no toll booths in the city centre so no loss of revenue there.
The reduction in tax from petrol sales would probably be far surpassed by the increase in revenue that public transport recieves.
So can't see what you're getting at.http://static.boards.ie/vbulletin/images/smilies/confused.gif

Since you have done away with the ownership of private cars there will be no people who own cars. Can you grasp that? Nobody will have a car, so nobody will pay VRT, buy petrol or pay road tax.

Have you even the vaguest concept of how great a loss to the revenue that would be. Public transport is subsidised at the moment by funds from the Exchequer, much of which comes directly from motorists, but that source of revenue will be gone if you have you way. How much do you think a trip from Tallaght to O'connell St will cost after the subsidies are withdrawn and the Government decide that taxing public transport is their only way to raise the revenue that is no longer being collected from the motorist?

Your statement that there would be no loss of revenue from toll booths that don't even exist beggars belief!

Tell me you understand some of this, please.
It's taken ages to do and I don't want to have to repeat it in crayon.

WindSock

I would own a two seater smartcar if I could afford one. the only small reliable car I could afford is a peugeot. If I lived closer to the city and worked in the city then I would definatley cycle. I need to use my car for my current situation. What really really gets my blood boiling though since i've been back in this spoiled brat of a country is all the SUVs. WE ARE NOT AMERICA! THE ROADS AND PARKING SPACES ARENT BIG ENOUGH!
I cant believe bad women drivers have been allowed to swap their puntos for these things. :mad:

JC 2K3

I don't see what measuring one's relative attraction to children has to do with reducing traffic congestion.

Reku

faceman wrote:

the infrastructure in dublin isnt up to scratch. So many people are buying or have bought property outside the convential dublin ring and there is little or no adequate public transport to those areas.

Have to agree.

faceman wrote:

very few bus routes go to areas other than the city centre.

They all have to return along a similar route though so it's just a matter of getting a connection in the city centre. It's inconvenient yes, but realistic, a direct route to places other than a few "hubs" would get too chaotic.

faceman wrote:

this damn city needs a proper underground network.

Agreed, and a Paris style ring motorway to keep as much traffic as possible out of the city centre.

seamus wrote:

You see, it's not about "forcing" people to use public transport. That doesn't give any incentive to improve public transport. You need to improve public transport and encourage people to use it because it's superior to the car, not force people to use an inferior service.

Completely disagree with this, look at all the one people cars out there, do you think that's because they are the only people they know heading that direction, Irish people also like their space, as a result many (at least many I've encountered) will choose to drive even when it means they'll be stuck looking for parking for ages after (and have to pay a fair bit to boot), be stuck in traffic for much longer, etc... and yet they live right next to a dart line that goes to where they want to go. It's daft!

seamus wrote:

Even attempting to figure out what busses to take to get from point A to point B is a slog - the timetables are a shambles, and there are no definitive route maps published anywhere. Imagine two boxes on Dublin Bus's website - "Where are you now?", and "Where are you going?", and then it spits back a recommended journey with all your walks and changes along the way.
London can do it, why can't we?

Agree, would be far better, but there is a route map on the website that you can figure these things out from (have done so myself).

seamus wrote:

I mean in the evenings. After 7.30pm Wed - Sat, it's all taxis. There's very little private traffic.

Ah, I see... usually only in that late on Fridays so not sure on this but I'll take your word for it. Does leave me wondering where all the taxis are going though... most people will already be home...


While I remember, just want to say "Good on you" to those that do walk/run 30 mins or more per day (20Km/week = clapping!) or cycle to work.

Reku

Keeping this separate to the rest as I don't see Hagar's posts as anywhere near the level of adult debate the rest of you are maintaining:

Hagar wrote:

Did you even read your own Point No 1? You wanted private buses off the road because the parked without consideration to other road users. My point is Dublin bus do the same abosulutely nothing to do with the number of potential passengers that the bus is capable of carrying. A parked bus, dripping diesel all over the road as they do, is carrying no passengers anywhere is it? It's just blocking up the road.

The average size of the private buses I see is far smaller than the average bus. And I think you'll probably find that when a dublin bus parks in such a fashion it's because the driver's decided to sod-off on an unofficial break, this is where tracking the buses would be useful since a bus suddenly stopping for no reason would draw attention.

Hagar wrote:

The purpose of bus lanes was to segregate busses from the vast majority of other road users ie private cars. If the cars are gone why bother with bus lanes at all? Can't the buses use the whole road? Are we to expect a parade now of garbage trucks? I wish, maybe your plan also includes claening up the accumulated filth on the city streets? Surely delivery trucks should only have access to the city centre at certain times same as most other cities outside Ireland. Or do you propose that they can come and go all day as they please?

And the taxis and motorbikes again disappear in your strange mind?

Hagar wrote:

Your response to point 2 was flawed and hasn't got any better since.

And your poorly thought out arguements are just proving my point

(and although the whingers will undoubtedly be blind to the fact it would get what traffic there is flowing far quicker, allowing people to get home faster and more accurate timetables on public transport)

.

Hagar wrote:

Seriously, did you even read my question? I'll rephrase it, maybe that will help. What will people park in the park and ride if you have abolished ownership of private cars? Regardless of the location of these park and ride facilities they will be empty if you have you way because nobody will have any cars to park there!

And you're proving that you can't even read yourself. I said nothing about banning the ownership of cars, merely that they be banned from the city centre. Get back to school and learn to read.

Hagar wrote:

Have you even made an estimate of the number of extra people that the buses will have to shift if cars are done away with? What size will the queues at the bus stops be. The stops will have to be put further apart, just to accomodate the number of people at each stop. The gaps between buses at the moment are way to long, that's why people are using cars!

No people use cars because they are lazy and don't like the idea of being crammed in with other people (they like their space too much).

Hagar wrote:

Since you have done away with the ownership of private cars there will be no people who own cars. Can you grasp that? Nobody will have a car, so nobody will pay VRT, buy petrol or pay road tax.

Once again learn to read then come back and join the debate.

Hagar wrote:

Have you even the vaguest concept of how great a loss to the revenue that would be. Public transport is subsidised at the moment by funds from the Exchequer, much of which comes directly from motorists, but that source of revenue will be gone if you have you way. How much do you think a trip from Tallaght to O'connell St will cost after the subsidies are withdrawn and the Government decide that taxing public transport is their only way to raise the revenue that is no longer being collected from the motorist?

When you think about the numbers of people who would be traveling it would be less than a euro extra per ticket, probably far far less.

Hagar wrote:

Your statement that there would be no loss of revenue from toll booths that don't even exist beggars belief!

Just trying to figure out what imaginary source of revenue you were seemed to feel the government was so dependant on.

Hagar wrote:

Tell me you understand some of this, please.
It's taken ages to do and I don't want to have to repeat it in crayon.

Considering you've yet to master reading I'd imagine you must be used to things written in crayon.:p

Hagar

You do have a point about my reading, I mis-read part of your original post and like a fool went off on a tangent as result.:o

I thought your intent was to ban cars from the city as a whole not just the city centre. The natural progression was that if all cars were banned from the whole city why would anyone own one? Hence my arguments based on no car ownership.

Anyway, when I get over my embarassment I might come back later and post something more relevent to the actual thrust of your posts.

Reku

Hagar wrote:

You do have a point about my reading, I mis-read part of your original post and like a fool went off on a tangent as result.:o

I thought your intent was to ban cars from the city as a whole not just the city centre. The natural progression was that if all cars were banned from the whole city why would anyone own one? Hence my arguments based on no car ownership.

Anyway, when I get over my embarassment I might come back later and post something more relevent to the actual thrust of your posts.

Fair enough (looking at the number of posts you have I can see how you might mis-read something in haste), hopefully you can join in with some good arguments to it then. I'd hope we all know it'll never happen as the possible complaints it'd draw would make the government too afraid of losing votes so they won't risk it, still interesting to debate the pros-cons and oversights though.

... banning cars from the whole city... god I'd be lynched...:eek: lol

faceman

farohar wrote:

They all have to return along a similar route though so it's just a matter of getting a connection in the city centre. It's inconvenient yes, but realistic, a direct route to places other than a few "hubs" would get too chaotic.

why? it works in other countries

Reku

faceman wrote:

why? it works in other countries

I think you'll surely find that that is only for one or two routes that aren't to/from hub points?
I'd be quite surprised to find a place where regardless of where you are and where you want to go you can get public transport straight between the places with no walking or connections necessary.