Using 737s on translantic routes.

Run_to_da_hills

I believe that the 737 was origionally designed for shorter-haul routes, but believe now that Flyglobespan have now being getting away with using a 737 800 series their Glasgow Boston route. I wonder would this open the floodgates for the likes of Ryanair and other carriers to follow suit? http://strategic-business-planning.suite101.com/article.cfm/useurope_on_a_737

Steyr

A 737/8 over the Atlantic are you sure? I mean it can be done that is if your going to stop for Fuel every so often but for a non stop... They use 4 Boeing 767/3ER's and 3 757/2's and im pretty sure the ones going into EIKN are indeed 757/2's.

expediateclimb

Ryanair get their 737's from the boeing factory in the US ferried over via Iceland

cp251

You can use any twin engined airliner as long as it meets ETOPs requirements. (Extended range Twin OPerations).

Ferrying is different as there are no fare paying passengers on board, so the rules are slightly different.

Although I'm not sure if I'd want to cross the atlantic crammed into a lo-co operators 737.

eoinok

As far as I am aware, flyglobespan are running with a 757.....

highlydebased

A B738 can make transatlantic, the knock to boston service is a B738. Some of the SNN to YHM services were operated by 737s, had to go via BIKF if wind was strong.

Ryanair regularly have their new aircraft delievered direct now, infact a record was set by Skyeurope who delivered a B737-700 direct to Prague from Boeing field.

De_man

biscayne (BSK) also operates 737/8s on a regular basis across the pond,

air canada operates an a319 from yyt to lhr

Terrontress

expediateclimb wrote:

Ryanair get their 737's from the boeing factory in the US ferried over via Iceland

I saw a Ryanair 737 parked up in Keflavik last October. I had thought they were maybe out there to do some form of a feasibility test of opening a route to there.

Have heard nothing since so I guess I saw a new one coming in from Boeing!

arctictree

About 5 years ago I flew on a plane with 6 seats per row from New York to Dublin. I think it was continental and am nearly sure it was a 737. Very uncomfortable flight especially as the plane was full.

highlydebased

No would have been a 757, in 3x3 config. I have flown with them....tis uncomfortable

Davidth88

I too have been on the CO 757, yes it's not very comfortable at all. And the service is slow because of the single aisle.

Of course 737's cross the atlantic all the time ..... how else did they get here to fly for the airlines in the first place .

Didn't Shannon have quite a lot of ' ferry ' traffic ?

FlutterinBantam

I think it would be safe to assume at this stage that the OP's query centered on the commercial and technical prospects of operating 737s on the North Atlantic.

I feel fairly sure ferry flights were not part of his initial interest.

highlydebased

Technically, they are obviously possible (with payload restrictions)

Commercially...probably not so much so. Would be more economical to run B757/767

richie_rvf

No way is it possible for an unmodified B737NG to operate trans atlantic;

B737-800 1990nm range with 162 pax
B737-900 2060nm range with 177 pax

The BBJ can do 5500nm with 50 pax or 6200 with 8 pax

Check this out for seeing how far those ranges will get you http://gc.kls2.com/

Boeing Field in Seattle is KBFI or BFI

Richie.

Fabio

What I'd be more concerned about here is passenger comfort.

Across the big pond ona 737? I just couldnot imagine that as being in the slightest bit comfortable.

jjbrien

richie_rvf wrote:

No way is it possible for an unmodified B737NG to operate trans atlantic;

B737-800 1990nm range with 162 pax
B737-900 2060nm range with 177 pax

The BBJ can do 5500nm with 50 pax or 6200 with 8 pax

Check this out for seeing how far those ranges will get you http://gc.kls2.com/

Boeing Field in Seattle is KBFI or BFI

Richie.

Tell me where are you gett your facts from a 737-700er is fully capable of doing knock to New York.

From the boeing site:
Flies up to 2,145 nautical miles farther than a 737-700
Capable of trans-oceanic flights with the maximum range of 5,510 nautical miles (10,200 km)

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/737family/737-700ER/facts.html
Maximum takeoff weight increased by 16,500 lb (7,485 kg)

But I would avoid Airline that uses 737 over the atlantic as the comfort would not be good I like the 767's i always site at the wondow where the seats are 2-4-2 configuration.

highlydebased

Richie_rvf- where are you getting your figures from. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737#737-800

A fully loaded B738 is capable of 3,060 miles with 189 pax (although would not operate in this config for comfort)

B737-700ER is capable of over 5375 miles fully loaded.

Shannon to JFK is just over 3000 miles. Therefore a B738 would have payload restrictions

A B737-700ER could make it to LAX. Although only with 30 miles of reserves would not be safe

The BBJ is capable of 5,375nm


I would much rather spend 7 hours flying to new york in a comfortably configured B738 rather than Continentals cramped B752's, anyday



Speaking of small aircraft on T/a...


Air Canada use A319's from LHR to YQX (Saint Johns). well the service is ending pretty soon I gather. The distance is 1950miles, while the 319 has a range of 3000 miles (Not the CJ or LR version). A journey I would love to take...

richie_rvf

@ jjbrien and neon-circles

finger trouble, I have NO idea where those figures came from!!

Anyway, I meant to say;

-800 3060nm
-900ER 2700nm without optional tanks and in single class

OK, my first post was wrong but I did say unmodified - a -700ER is a BBJ not a regular B737.

Regardless, I have to agree, I would not fly that distance in a regular seat in a B737.

Richie.

highlydebased

I wouldnt mind- the older Ryanair B738's offer tonnes of Legroom (For me even, Im big!). I travel to EWR with Continental, the legroom is AWFUL on the B752, cant even open a laptop!!

Run_to_da_hills

Just seen an Air force one 737 on a brief stop over at Shannon to day, presuming it is refeuling for a translantic run.

ian_m

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

Just seen an Air force one 737 on a brief stop over at Shannon to day, presuming it is refeuling for a translantic run.

nice. did u get a snap?

highlydebased

Would not have been Air Force One unless the president is onboard

The USAF BBJ's transit regularly

Run_to_da_hills

ian_m wrote:

nice. did u get a snap?

Im working from scaffolding in a Chemical plant adjacent to the end of the runway, its difficult to take snap shots at the right moment, cam phones as with all mobile phones are banned on site.

highlydebased

This was the aircraft http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1219451/M/

ian_m

It must carry delegates and the like

Run_to_da_hills

Neon-Circles wrote:

This was the aircraft http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1219451/M/

Thats it, it was a very brief landing.

Foggy43

I'm afraid some info in this thread is ever so slightly wrong. Air Canada do not operate A319's in or out of LHR.
There is no direct service from LHR to YYT or YQX. Both services go through YHZ and A319/320 are used between YQX and YYT.

highlydebased

Foggy43 wrote:

I'm afraid some info in this thread is ever so slightly wrong. Air Canada do not operate A319's in or out of LHR.
There is no direct service from LHR to YYT or YQX. Both services go through YHZ and A319/320 are used between YQX and YYT.

Incorrect- Air Canada provided a 5 daily A319 service between Heathrow and Saint Johns from April, and increased to daily during the summer. It is being ended now however unfortuantely.

Proof: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/trip_reports/read.main/100998/

Foggy43

One appologises!

Incorrect- Air Canada provided a 5 daily A319 service between Heathrow and Saint Johns from April, and increased to daily during the summer. It is being ended now however unfortuantely.

http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi?rkey=1504018155&view=13213-0&Start=40

I never noticed it. For starters in operated in the dark so no one would notice. Believe me! Business customers do not like narrow bodied longhaul aircraft and can easily persuade the operator to change. Air Canada had just started to retire the A340's and replacing them with B777-200/300.

Thursday, May 18th was unique at LHR. Any airline could have slotted in any type of aircraft and gone un-noticed. The A380 arrived at Terminal 3 that afternoon and night stopped.

Biro

Davidth88 wrote:

I too have been on the CO 757, yes it's not very comfortable at all. And the service is slow because of the single aisle.

Of course 737's cross the atlantic all the time ..... how else did they get here to fly for the airlines in the first place .

Didn't Shannon have quite a lot of ' ferry ' traffic ?

How is it then that Shorts had 360's operating in the States? And ATR have planes operating in the US and in Oz and New Zealand?

Davidth88

Biro .. eh ?

I was saying that 737s, and loads of other aircraft not designed to cross the atlantic do so all the time , as you say how else would the Shorts 330/360's have ended up over there. ( Didn't the USAF use the S330 for a time , certainly in Europe , I rememeber them appearing in Mildenhall I think they were based in Germany )

They stop in Iceland/Azores or whatever...... I have spoken to guys who have flown light single engine aircraft across the pond.

I think you may have mis-read my post

However reading through later posts I am amazed that AC were ( are ) using A319's across the atlantic .

Sponge Bob

Tis only a 4 and a half hour flight, same a Ryanair 737 to the Canaries ...and at least the Canadians will feed ya

highlydebased

A flight to canaries is usually 3 and a half hours depending on wx etc.

I remember my first trip to ACE, ten years ago when I was a child (lol) it was a Futura B734, and we had to go from Shannon via Dublin to ACE. It seemed to take forever!!

Astreaus did/do provide a LGW-YYT service, I think, with the B737-700ER

Third_Echelon

Neon-Circles wrote:

No would have been a 757, in 3x3 config. I have flown with them....tis uncomfortable

US Airways fly this config from Dublin to Philadelphia, which I've taken a few times... Single aisle is a pain. Not even that much room around the toilet area if you are waiting.

Also flew the Newark - Dublin route with Continental and they use the same 3x3 757 config. Continental are a nightmare. I try to avoid where possible.

Fabio

As ye all probably know already, Ryanair have opened talks with some secondary airports in the US so as to open a low fares route to there - twas on the news today.

richie_rvf

They have had proposals from 18 airports in the US.

O'Leary has said that he will not start another airline until there is another downturn in aviation and the aircraft prices fall.

Flightglobal have an aricle as does RATI

ian_m

it wont happen under the ryanair name but if there is money to be made im sure o'leary will be around quick enough

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I believe that the 737 was origionally designed for shorter-haul routes, but believe now that Flyglobespan have now being getting away with using a 737 800 series their Glasgow Boston route. I wonder would this open the floodgates for the likes of Ryanair and other carriers to follow suit? http://strategic-business-planning.suite101.com/article.cfm/useurope_on_a_737

Interesting from my original post, Flyglobespan now have their 'ETOPS' license, which lets it fly over large expanses of water with two engines, suspended. I wonder if this was over trying to get away with using small commuter jets for translantic routes. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7051079.stm

highlydebased

LOL, no they werent using "small commuter jets", they were using B737's which have the range (As discussed here!)

Icelandair are operating alot of their flights so, alot of them woint actaully be affected


ETOPS- "engines turn or passengers swim!"

ScouseMouse

737's do fly commercially across the pond.

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2007/10/19/liverpool-s-flyglobespan-new-york-route-loses-safety-licence-64375-19975182/

I think I will give globespan a VERY wide berth (or is that terminal? LOL)

Capt'n Midnight

The 707 was a 4 engine transatlantic jet, the 737 was more or less a chopped down version of it, cockpit, engine type and fuselage sections similar but it held fewer passengers, and much lower take off weight because far less fuel.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737 says that the 900ER can carry 215 passengers for 4,996 km :eek:

The original 707 carried 140 passengers.

Sizzler

superscouse wrote: »

737's do fly commercially across the pond.

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2007/10/19/liverpool-s-flyglobespan-new-york-route-loses-safety-licence-64375-19975182/

I think I will give globespan a VERY wide berth (or is that terminal? LOL)

Have to say Im amazed at that :eek: I can only imagine what route they took, straight out off the kerry coast and hope for the best!

FlutterinBantam

:eek:Donegal hopefully

Run_to_da_hills

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The 707 was a 4 engine transatlantic jet, the 737 was more or less a chopped down version of it, cockpit, engine type and fuselage sections similar but it held fewer passengers, and much lower take off weight because far less fuel.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737 says that the 900ER can carry 215 passengers for 4,996 km :eek:

The original 707 carried 140 passengers.

At least the 707 had four engines!.

Sizzler

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

:eek:Donegal hopefully

Wasting fuel flying that far north

FlutterinBantam

I'd check it out before heading for Kerry:rolleyes: