Irish Airforce Uniform

Terrontress

Check this out

http://military.ie/aircorps/uniform/index.htm

Look at Service Dress number 2.

How did they let that go out?

I like the little "No gloves" at the end.

Steyr

It's Irish Air Corps.

cp251

'The Number 2 Dress Uniform is worn during formal engagements other than ceremonial.' Well I'm glad they cleared that up.

Terrontress

Steyr wrote:

It's Irish Air Corps.

The Royal Irish Air Corps?

Steyr

No its The Irish Air Corps. Nothing Royal about it. I smell a troll.:mad:

Terrontress

Steyr wrote:

No its The Irish Air Corps. Nothing Royal about it. I smell a troll.:mad:

I smell a pedant!

I used airforce as a generic term. The Uk has one, The US has one, Canada and Australia. Most other English speaking countries.

Even Wikipedia refers to Ireland having an airforce
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Defence_Forces

The dictionary.com definition is

the airborne branch of a country's armed forces

If I had been speaking German I may have referred to the Air Corps as a Luftwaffe.

cp251

It's and air force called the 'Irish Air Corps' just like the we have a police force called 'An Garda Siochana'.

Now is everybody happy?

Pherekydes

Terrontress wrote:

I smell a pedant!

It's Air Corps. Nothing pedantic about pointing that out. The UK, US, Canada and others also have an Air Corps. Those are branches of their armies, same as ours. Their Air Forces are not branches of their armies.

Terrontress

Slow coach wrote:

It's Air Corps. Nothing pedantic about pointing that out. The UK, US, Canada and others also have an Air Corps. Those are branches of their armies, same as ours. Their Air Forces are not branches of their armies.

Fair enough, I gave it the wrong name. But surely you can understand what I am getting at. I am not from this country so am more likely to use the more generic term. When I was in Thailand and saw their military jets, I referred to them as the Thai Air Force. I have no idea of their official name.

Steyr

Now the Thai Air Force's correct term is "The Royal Thai Air Force". Im confused as to why you called our Irish Air Corps the "Royal Irish Air Corps"? We do not have a King Or Queen or any Royalty in Ireland and surely you must know enough History to know That the 26 County Republic Of Ireland is a Soverign State and not a Part of the United Kingdom anymore right?

Terrontress

I called it "Royal Irish Air Corps" because I thought you were picking holes in my use of the word AIRFORCE because it was too similar to the RAF. In for a penny, in for a pound. If I am going to annoy a pedant, may as well do it in style.

Hagar

If you're just here to annoy people, I predict a succesful but very short career.

Pherekydes

Terrontress wrote:

If I am going to annoy a pedant, may as well do it in style.

Perhaps you need to look up the meaning of the word 'pedant'.

Terrontress

Slow coach wrote:

Perhaps you need to look up the meaning of the word 'pedant'.

Dictionary.com states:

a person who overemphasizes rules or minor details

With the emphasis on the latter.

I am not trying to annoy people. I thought my second post had a modicum of humour to it.

Read the posts I have written on the military forum. Do they seem like they are here simply to annoy people?

Pherekydes

Terrontress wrote:

Dictionary.com states:

Dictionary.com states:

Quote:
a person who overemphasizes rules or minor details

With the emphasis on the latter.

Exactly. It is not a minor detail to refer to the Irish Army Air Corps as the Royal Irish Air Force. An Air Corps is not an Air Force. The Air Corps is a branch of the Army. They wore Army uniforms until some time in the 90s. None of these are minor details.

Terrontress

Is their function not the same?

bostonian

Why do they mention a g-suit? The vast majority of the Air Corps' aircraft are prop-driven, so blackout at high-G's is unlikely.

bostonian

Terrontress wrote:

Is their function not the same?

Function is the same, but administratively they are different. During WWII, for example, the US didn't have an Air Force (it was established in 1947), but they did have the Air Corps, which was part of the Army.

Soldier>Fire Team>Squad>Platoon>Company>Battalion>Regiment>Brigade>Corps>Army

A corps is part of a larger arm of a nation's defence. A force stands on it's own.

cp251

bostonian, the PC-9 can pull +7 Gs and - 3.5. A G-suit would be handy at those stresses. The most I ever pulled was + 5. That was not so bad. It was the minus G that made me sick.:o While you can brace for high G, it's bit like constipation:( A G-suit saves all that effort.

I must correct on the US Air Corps thing. The US Army Air Corps was renamed the US Army Air Force in I think 1941, before their war anyway. I'm sure it's on net somewhere. It remained part of the army of course until after the war.

Otherwise you are correct. Incidentally I never did get the point of the new blue uniforms of the Air Corps. Why didn't they rename it as an air force when that happened?

Steyr

I pulled +7 and -3.5 in Yak 52, G-MCCY. The IAC G Suits and flight suits are US Made and the same as the USAF F-16/15 Jockeys use.

Hagar

cp251 wrote:

Incidentally I never did get the point of the new blue uniforms of the Air Corps. Why didn't they rename it as an air force when that happened?

A change of jumper colour hasn't increased the combat potential, so why cod ourselves by calling it an Air Force. They got a new wardrobe not jet fighters.

FiSe

Back to topic now, when you read this Dress code, you wonder if someone is taking piss. From the other hand after reading this you will always remember that:

Dress No.1: Ceremonial Dress, also known as Service Dress 1 is worn on special occasions including Presidential Guard of Honours and Military funerals among others.Ceremonial Dress, also known as Service Dress No. 1 is worn on special occasions including Presidential Guard of Honours and Military funerals among others.Ceremonial Dress, also known as Service Dress No. 1 is worn on special occasions including Presidential Guard of Honours and Military funerals among others. Black gloves.

Dress No.2: The Number 2 Dress Uniform is worn during formal engagements other than ceremonial. The Number 2 Dress Uniform is worn during formal engagements other than ceremonial. The Number 2 Dress Uniform is worn during formal engagements other than ceremonial.

The Number 2 Dress Uniform is worn during formal engagements other than ceremonial. The Number 2 Dress Uniform is worn during formal engagements other than ceremonial.

No gloves

Working dress: Air Corps Officers wear a blue "V" necked sweater, pale blue shirt, blue slacks and black shoes. This uniform is worn in many job roles including Air Traffic Control and Office work.

Officers working dressOfficers working dressOfficers working dress


Sorry just couldn't resist

Hagar

The content on the site is just filler text. I'm sure someone was supposed to draw up the proper text and put it in place but never got around to it.

Terrontress

I was just surprised that they let it go live like that and that nobody has spent the time to look over it since.

testicle

Funnily enough, the sites author is Air Corps.

FiSe

It's a disgrace, that's what it is.

Somebody has to be responsible for the web presentation and somebody has to see it before it gets published. Or maybe not :rolleyes:

Hagar

Drop them an email. I might stir them into doing what's needed.

Steyr

Hagar wrote:

Drop them an email. I might stir them into doing what's needed.

Send one to Willie too, and tell him MATS everywhere else stands for MILITARY AIR TRANSPORT SERVICE.

Terrontress

By the way, is a mod not going to change my offensive title?

Hagar

Ok, your official title is now "The Mighty Terrontress, Lady Troll to the Military Forum".

Anything else I can do for you?

Terrontress

Yeah, can you explain the history of the Irish Air Corps roundel?

Hagar

Wiki is your friend Linky

Terrontress

Well I can't see anything there but is it true that it used to be just two colours and was later expanded to the three which is there now?

And if so, what were the two colours?

What does a roundel signify that a flag does not? I suppose the current one looks a bit like a moving propellor. Is that what it is?

Hagar

Green and orange. I think it was changed because of an over similarity with the Korean ( Ying/Yang ) equivalent and for a desire to be more in keeping with the National Flag and our celtic identity. The roundel is based on a stylished celtic device called a trisket. Similarity to a propellor was probably a bonus and may well have influenced it's choice as an appropriate symbol for an Air Corps in the good old prop days.

I suspect that the main difference between a roundel and a flag is that a roundel is round and doesn't look odd viewed from different angles in the way that a flag would, particularly in an aerial context which is more three dimensional as opposed to ground forces who operate in a more two dimensional context.

Take the US flag for instance, when worn on the right sleeve of a uniform the stars are in the upper right hand corner of the flag. This looks wrong at first sight as we normally see the flag represented with the stars represented in the top left corner. The reason for this is simple. With the stars on the right the flag is facing in the direction the wearer is looking symbolising a forward motion with the flag flying to the rear. If the flag was facing the other way it would signify a rearward or retreating motion which is not how the US would like to portray themselves.

That's as much as you get from me. Any more and I start charging by the word. Extra for big words and double for links.

Steyr

Hagar wrote:

Similarity to a propellor was probably a bonus and may well have influenced it's choice as an appropriate symbol for an Air Corps in the good old prop days.

Dosent our Air Corps still live in those "prop" days..:mad: :eek:

FiSe

But now we have new era propeller days...

Roundel matters:

First IAC /was it Flying Corps back then?/ roundels were overpainted RAF roundels: Green outside, White, Orange in the centre, but latter the same year -1922- those tricoloured stripes /Irish flag/ were applied.

Then the combination of two coloured boss "roundel" and stripes, those roundels were placed on white square during the second war, or "emergency" if you wish to use irish term, as a sign of neutrality. I suspect, that here is the origin of three coloured boss as we know today, can't tell you any more at the moment, sorry.

bostonian

cp251 wrote:

bostonian, the PC-9 can pull +7 Gs and - 3.5. A G-suit would be handy at those stresses. The most I ever pulled was + 5. That was not so bad. It was the minus G that made me sick.:o While you can brace for high G, it's bit like constipation:( A G-suit saves all that effort.

I must correct on the US Air Corps thing. The US Army Air Corps was renamed the US Army Air Force in I think 1941, before their war anyway. I'm sure it's on net somewhere. It remained part of the army of course until after the war.

Otherwise you are correct. Incidentally I never did get the point of the new blue uniforms of the Air Corps. Why didn't they rename it as an air force when that happened?

Nothing to correct actually, I just didn't mention the AAF. While +7g's is impressive, it won't kill you- whereas what a jet aircraft making a sharp turn at mach 2 can. I believe the human threshold is somewhere around 11gs?

Slightly OT, but the new Lamborghini Reventon has a 3d G-meter to measure +/- G's as you turn. I don't need one, but I'd love to have one LOL

cp251

Discussion of the origin of Air Corps boss stirred some memories and I dug out my copy now disintegrating copy of 'An Irishman's aviation sketch book' by R W O'Sullivan. In it he described how he was asked to design a roundel for the Air Corps. He based on one he used when he made model aircraft. His name being O'Sullivan, he had a design of an O with an S superimposed, inspired by the designs in the book of kells. In In fact he actually designed a three colour but the Air Corps dropped the white and it became a two colour boss for camouflage reasons until the white square was added later. After the war his original three colour boss was re-instated. In fact in one of the paintings in the book he depicts a Gladiator in pre-war colours with a tricolour boss. I suspect that may be a mistake on his part due to faulty memory but who am I to judge. He did after all design the logo.

R. W. O'SULLIVAN, B.A., B.A.I., C.Eng., F.R.Ae.S. was the Inspector of Accidents who investigated the famous Tuskar rock Viscount accident.

I believe the only Air Corps aircraft with over painted British roundels was the single Se5 in service, which was in fact painted red.

Boston, I think the human threshold is a lot higher actually but you lose consciousness at around +11 gs even with a G-suit and training.

As for the Lamborghini, if I had to money to buy something that could pull that much G. It would probably be a Pitts or something. But I really would love a Bucker Jungmeister. If not then maybe an Extra or Su-29.

FiSe

Unfo there's no picture of this SE5a, but photographs are showing that the first Bristol/s?/ F2B was another example with overpainted RAF roundels - on top wing for sure, I believe it was the one which fought around Blessington.

Tony Kearns preparing article for Flying In Ireland magazine about IAC Gladiators and I made some profiles of them for him, so yes there's one with three coloured boss. But obviously don't want to talk about it before the article is published :rolleyes:

cp251

That's interesting FiSe. Never knew about the Bristol Fighter, it makes sense though. Interesting about the Gladiators with the three colour boss. Are there photos or is it based on the R W O'Sullivan's painting I wonder. But based on what O'Sullivan said, it is entirely possible that the Gladiators had three colour bosses for a time.

irishair100

hi can i get photo of the irish Air Corps' for my web site

all the best from irishair