Clonmel town centre

Shutuplaura

Is it just me or does Clonmel town centre seem to be dying a death. The Last time i was home - about six months ago to be honest, a fair few pubs had closed for good and a couple of businesses gone too, either folded or moved to the bypass. I can't really think of any examples off-hand, McGowans Pub i suppose was one. As for businesses, tesco is a big one, and a few around Superquinn were also boarded up. My parents at home don't notice.

Anyway, is it in terminal decline or did i just see it at a bad time??

Chevy RV

There is major talk of trying to get c. 400 acres behind the dog track rezoned for a "sustainable" new development costing c1.5billion. The council are about to vote on it next week.

That will give an indication where the future lies.

Shutuplaura

No way! behind the Dog track? I'm not sure where they'd put it but hopefully its true. Thats hardly the town centre though?

clansman

i was away from ireland/clonmel for 2 years, iam just back and as far as i have seen, there is nothing new! it may not be dying but its sure as hell not growing

clansman

i was away from ireland/clonmel for 2 yr, iam back now and i haven't seen a change. it may not be dying but its sure as hell not growing!

Snake Plisken

Yeah Town centre is dying, shops are closing down by the week, Tesco's moving out was a big lose, its after getting rough down in the Town centre as well, imaging my surprise when on St Patricks day this year I run into a bunch of hoody yobs, 2 of them carrying AXES, and shouting and waving them around the place!!!!Cops need to get a grip with these scannger gangs!

Poxyshamrock

Clonmel's Tesco is gone? WOW that's a big loss for a town of it's size.
Shannon is losing it's tesco too.

Snake Plisken

Poxyshamrock wrote:

Clonmel's Tesco is gone? WOW that's a big loss for a town of it's size.
Shannon is losing it's tesco too.

No they built a new super store on the by-pass, and closed down the one in the town centre, thus one less attraction to the town centre.

Snake

quoteunquote

Whatever happened to that proposed Argos up at the old Chadwicks lot?

SameDifference

Clonmel is as good as its ever been.

Superquinn is still open and thats the only shop that really matters...

SameDifference

freepost

tipp86

imo tesco is more suited out the by pass easier parking for shopping.Im sure it will be replaced by some high store chain in the near future similar to the way devanes was.I feel the town centre is improving since i was a child and it will be on a par with waterford soon

SameDifference

^^ cosign

but they could do with replacing some of the sports shops that have shut down

clansman

clonmel needs a place where you can do some shopping, as far as i know it has no shopping centers. nothing to compare it to waterford, and whats to do on week nights, there is nothing, no bowling ally, no place for youths, no live shows/gigs(where big bands can play). the concil needs to look to the intrest of the youth who are growning up here and who in turn will(or will not) live and work here

i was in the cinema a few weeks ago on a thursday night and by god was the town dead... all i saw was goups of young ppl with huds hanging around the place, i was looking over my shoulder ever second and i didn't chance the atm. i haven never seen that in clonmel, and was shocked and surprised, but hey times do change.

ciano1

clansman wrote: »

and whats to do on week nights, there is nothing, no place for youths. .

Circles FTW :D

SameDifference

^^
I actually took a girl there on a date...

clansman

SameDifference wrote: »

^^
I actually took a girl there on a date...

how long did it last?

ciano1

SameDifference wrote: »

^^
I actually took a girl there on a date...

Was that before or after the romantic candle-lit dinner in abrakebabra ????

SameDifference

ciano1 wrote: »

Was that before or after the romantic candle-lit dinner in abrakebabra ????

Lol...

pretty-in-pink

There is a bowling alley

A subway is going in near the posthouse, and it looks like tescos has been bought.

I think more important then any of this is the rapid escalation of violence in Clonmel in the last year and a bit. I mean, whats that, 4 or 5 murders? Its shocking, and my deepest sympathies go to the families of all concerned. I know some of them pretty well (who doesn't, its small town). Its very sad to see my home town destroy itself with such hatred and anger

Snake Plisken

Yeah as an Ex-pat its sad to see it come up in the news every couple of months for the wrong reasons. Still enjoying going down and having a look around the shops in the town centre but everytime I'm down there there is at least 1 or 2 extra shops been boarded up since my last visit. I think the Tescos on the by-pass and the Poppyfields centre has pulled a lot of busines out of the town centre.

pretty-in-pink

ex pats ftw!

murray sparkle

One of the main reasons that the town centre is dying is that too many property owners are happy to leave their building empty in the hope that M&S or someone similar will ride into town and take the property off them. Also as a self employed business man with a few irons in the fire and living in Clonmel I just gave up on trying to lease property in the town. It's dying a death and the owners are still looking for Tokyo/Manhattan prices. For what? A town that is dying a death. Pretty soon it'll look like any UK high street, charity shops, mobile phone shops and fashion stores.

On another note the consistent presence of Clonmel in the news is doing it no favours either.

Answer me this - where can you get a decent take away cup of coffee on a Saturday afternoon in town? It's going backwards and it's a pity. I love the town there are good points but skangers are ruining it for everyone. There are too many tatoo parlours and stuff around the town. It just drags it down.

Ta ta"!

Murray!

monkeyfudge

Chevy RV wrote: »

There is major talk of trying to get c. 400 acres behind the dog track rezoned for a "sustainable" new development costing c1.5billion. The council are about to vote on it next week.

That will give an indication where the future lies.

Oh really? 1.5 billion? Are they planning to launch a manned mission to mars?

pretty-in-pink wrote: »

I think more important then any of this is the rapid escalation of violence in Clonmel in the last year and a bit. I mean, whats that, 4 or 5 murders? Its shocking, and my deepest sympathies go to the families of all concerned. I know some of them pretty well (who doesn't, its small town). Its very sad to see my home town destroy itself with such hatred and anger

I must admit Clonmel seems to have more than it's fair share of articles in the Irish Times lately relating to violent crime. Only this week one girl killed and her brother badly wounded. It's never nice to read about these things happening in what is a relatively small town.

Snake Plisken

monkeyfudge wrote: »

I must admit Clonmel seems to have more than it's fair share of articles in the Irish Times lately relating to violent crime. Only this week one girl killed and her brother badly wounded. It's never nice to read about these things happening in what is a relatively small town.

Just on the case this week the girl and her brother are from a well respected family from the village of Newcastle. The scannger who did this is from Clonmel, even though he gave a different address when he was arrested.

irishgem

There is a bowling alley but yeah....the town is pretty dead alright!

irishgem

murray sparkle wrote: »

One of the main reasons that the town centre is dying is that too many property owners are happy to leave their building empty in the hope that M&S or someone similar will ride into town and take the property off them. Also as a self employed business man with a few irons in the fire and living in Clonmel I just gave up on trying to lease property in the town. It's dying a death and the owners are still looking for Tokyo/Manhattan prices. For what? A town that is dying a death. Pretty soon it'll look like any UK high street, charity shops, mobile phone shops and fashion stores.

On another note the consistent presence of Clonmel in the news is doing it no favours either.

Answer me this - where can you get a decent take away cup of coffee on a Saturday afternoon in town? It's going backwards and it's a pity. I love the town there are good points but skangers are ruining it for everyone. There are too many tatoo parlours and stuff around the town. It just drags it down.

Ta ta"!

Murray!

No decent coffee shops, the one in the garden centre near dunnes on Waterford road is alright. Only decent coffee you can buy is take away and that's from the little shop in the hostpital!!!!!(Tchibo) or from the new garage at Tesco. Sad state of affairs alright!

pretty-in-pink

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Just on the case this week the girl and her brother are from a well respected family from the village of Newcastle. The scannger who did this is from Clonmel, even though he gave a different address when he was arrested.

Yeah, its very messed up. Everyone is messed up about it.

iceage

Jeez, anybody out there got some nice things to say about Clonmel......... I'm waiting!!! as to the recent spate of violent incidents, guys.....its EVERYWHERE in this wonderful country of ours. So stop knocking and maybe mention a few good things about the place, yes Tescos moved out of the centre of town, but they went to the by pass, and brought us cheaper petrol! there is a bowling alley in town, and a decent cinema and as far as bands are concerned , you have the two pubs in irish town and mixed music mid week in some of the bigger pubs,(mulcahys) Salsa seems to be taking a hold as well!! big salsa introduction in mulcahys sunday night. So..stop taking the p1ss out of the place. As for the "scangers" yes we have them, like every town and village in Ireland! A problem this generation has to deal with as they weren't clipped around the ear when they were knee high to grasshoppers, and now have a chip on their shoulders and reckon WE owe them something!!!:D A great town, with great potential, businesses come and go, that is the nature of it, the problem is the estate agents.. their the ones bleeding the heart out of the town by pushing traders out due to ridiculous rents, and property prices. The rats and the sinking ship scenario guys. take heed, that pussy cat of the ninetys is definately dead! time to take stock. ENOUGH!! of my moaning and giving out... clonmel isn't the worst of em, so stop knocking her.:D

pretty-in-pink

Oh no, only Clonmel people can say stuff bout it. My hometown is not for the knocking by other people



and it could be worse, say twenty minutes down the road, towards waterford worse.

SameDifference

I think that clonmel needs some inner city development...

there is some buildings that could be being used which aren't

eco

quoteunquote wrote: »

Whatever happened to that proposed Argos up at the old Chadwicks lot?

just a rumour

apparantly they are makin it into the new cop shop

eco

clansman wrote: »

there is nothing, no bowling ally, .

yes there is bowling

eco

murray sparkle wrote: »

There are too many tatoo parlours and stuff around the town. It just drags it down.

!

huh?theres only two- i dont see no complaints about the no of pubs or off licences in clonmel

but oh ya its the 2 tattoo parlours thats draggn it down

FFS cop on

pretty-in-pink

The old Chadwicks lot is going to be an ice rink I thought

It BeeMee

pretty-in-pink wrote: »

The old Chadwicks lot is going to be an ice rink I thought

From what I heard it's only a Christmas thing?

Blush_01

I have to say, I'm not a huge fan of Clonmel (it MIGHT have something to do with my wallet, complete with over €500 of 21st birthday present cash in it being stolen on Christmas week a few years ago... that was a sh!t christmas!) and I haven't been for a while. Especially at night, Clonmel doesn't feel safe. That said, there are some lovely little shops in Clonmel and it still has a bit of life to it during the day. Lets face it, it could be worse - take a look at Tipperary Town. They don't call it Tipp for nothing.

archtech

Part of the problem with Clonmel is, the Local Authority.Most of the buildings in the Town Centre are either protected structures or adjacent to protected structures which brings alot of hassel for those who would be interested in developing them.
The Planners make it so difficult for anyone who wants to develop in the town centre that is often not worth the hassel or money. A number of years ago there were proposal to develop Suir Island, to include a 5 Star Hotel & Leisure Centre, Shops, Offices along with some Residental develpment and a multi-story car park with new bridge onto Suir Island at the bottom of Sarsfield Street, do you think that the Local Authority were in favour of the development, they refused the development after insisting on the developers to get studies done on everything for the colour of the water in the river and the effects of the development on potential flooding to effects of the proposed hotel on the existing hotels in the town.
Of course things aren't helped on the planning front by the not in my back garden group or the small town anything over two storey is too high group.

Secondly the price of property and rents in the town are too high, this is partially due to one auctioneer who likes to tell people that he can get the M & S or next type clients.

Pigletlover

archtech wrote: »

Part of the problem with Clonmel is, the Local Authority.Most of the buildings in the Town Centre are either protected structures or adjacent to protected structures which brings alot of hassel for those who would be interested in developing them.
The Planners make it so difficult for anyone who wants to develop in the town centre that is often not worth the hassel or money. A number of years ago there were proposal to develop Suir Island, to include a 5 Star Hotel & Leisure Centre, Shops, Offices along with some Residental develpment and a multi-story car park with new bridge onto Suir Island at the bottom of Sarsfield Street, do you think that the Local Authority were in favour of the development, they refused the development after insisting on the developers to get studies done on everything for the colour of the water in the river and the effects of the development on potential flooding to effects of the proposed hotel on the existing hotels in the town.
Of course things aren't helped on the planning front by the not in my back garden group or the small town anything over two storey is too high group.

Well said.

With the number of empty units around the town, planners should be trying to encourage development instead of entertaining wightless objections

archtech wrote: »

Secondly the price of property and rents in the town are too high, this is partially due to one auctioneer who likes to tell people that he can get the M & S or next type clients.

What's worse is that the property owners actually believe that and that's why their properties are still lying idle :rolleyes:

r3nu4l

pretty-in-pink wrote: »

There is a bowling alley

irishgem wrote: »

There is a bowling alley but yeah....the town is pretty dead alright!

eco wrote: »

yes there is bowling

Yup, the bowling alley is a great addition but to be honest they need to make a lot more of it if it's to become a major attraction. The upstairs part is hideous and seems like an afterthought but at least the bowling lanes are kept in good shape
The bowling centre is based on the bypass and not in the town centre so that doesn't help the town centre.

My wife is from Cahir so anytime we're in Clonmel we pop into the griddle for some cakes and buns...mmm, coffee slices ftw! I did notice the last time we were home that a few places were boarded up alright.

Also, the last time we were in the cinema there were a group of kids who had obviously snuck into the film, talked, laughed and played with their phones through the first fifteen minutes before getting up and leaving...no staff anywhere to chuck them out. Had I been there on my own and not with my wife I might have caused a scene but she's a calming influence on me and that's a good thing

Meathlass

I'm back living in Clonmel after about 7 years away and it's very sad to see the town centre so run down. A lot of the shops are boarded up and all the for lease signs seem to dominate. The Poppyfields and Tesco are definately taking business away from the town but you can't have it both ways. I do my week day shopping in Tesco as it's handy for me as I live near the bypass but on weekends I go into the town centre, go to the library, shop in Dunnes in Oakville, and Wheleans butchers, usually meet friends in Niamh's coffee shop and there are some nice small shops on Mitchell St where you can get arty things, books and jewellry/handbags. The only way for the town centre to survive is if people go into it and buy things. There's no point complaining about how bad it is and then going to Tesco and Supervalue. This isn't unique to Clonmel either, it's happening to all towns in Ireland.

The weekend scene isn't too bad in Clonmel. You have the comedy club in O'Keeffes and live bands from time to time. Declan O'Rourke and Neil Delamare are playing soon. As far as I know the cinema is the biggest in Tipp and of course we have the bowling alley! The ice rink is opening in Chadwicks on 11th December for Christmas. I have to say though on a weekday night there is nothing to do. Nowhere open except the pubs. I dated a guy in Clonmel and we were at a loss, there's only so many movies you can see, we even went to Circles to play air hockey but the table was broken (wonder if he's the guy in one of the previous posts!!!) There was nowhere except a pub to sit down and have a cup of coffee.

r3nu4l

Meathlass wrote: »

I have to say though on a weekday night there is nothing to do. Nowhere open except the pubs. I dated a guy in Clonmel and we were at a loss, there's only so many movies you can see, we even went to Circles to play air hockey but the table was broken (wonder if he's the guy in one of the previous posts!!!) There was nowhere except a pub to sit down and have a cup of coffee.

This is where the Clonmel bowling alley falls down a bit for me. It's not the kind of place you'd spend an evening in with friends. You'd bowl and go elsewhere as soon as you are finished! In Cambridge the bowling alley has a full bar and restaurant inside as well as the usual pool tables and arcade machines. There's also a DJ on Friday nights. The unit isn't on its own either like the clonmel bowl. There are restaurants, bars and a multiplex cinema on the same complex.

It doesn't help that clonmel bowling alley does not feel like a comfortable building, it feels more like a warehouse with some stuff inside. Not the kind of place for a nice cup of coffee before or after a game of bowling.

I know that developing that site would take away from the town centre even more but if it's looking for something to do then these entertainment spaces need a bit more planning.

Meathlass

r3nu4l wrote: »

This is where the Clonmel bowling alley falls down a bit for me. It's not the kind of place you'd spend an evening in with friends. You'd bowl and go elsewhere as soon as you are finished! In Cambridge the bowling alley has a full bar and restaurant inside as well as the usual pool tables and arcade machines. There's also a DJ on Friday nights. The unit isn't on its own either like the clonmel bowl. There are restaurants, bars and a multiplex cinema on the same complex.

It doesn't help that clonmel bowling alley does not feel like a comfortable building, it feels more like a warehouse with some stuff inside. Not the kind of place for a nice cup of coffee before or after a game of bowling.

I know that developing that site would take away from the town centre even more but if it's looking for something to do then these entertainment spaces need a bit more planning.

Totally agree with you, the bowling alley is a very unwelcoming place. Even though it's only built a few years it looks shabby. At least in the Summer you can go for a walk down by the river or around the town but it's so cold and dark now it's not really something you'd do for fun. The provision of entertainment services is a difficult one though for any small town but there's no buzz around Clonmel during the week. The two main streets are dark and empty. Reading the Nationalist the general population seem to think that all their problems will be solved with a multi storied parking. I'm inclined to agree with a previous poster who suggested that the rates charged for businesses are too much. Angela's coffee show closed because she couldn't afford the new lease or rates (not sure which one)

My brother had his rent increased by 200 euros a month for a 5 bedroom house in Clonmel last week; they immediately went on Daft and found a new house for the same rate they are paying now, closer to town for 1300 euros a month. When they rang their landlord, he was shocked, begged them to stay, said he's lower the rent again for another few months. They told him to get lost and they're moving out next week. He'll find it very difficult to get new tenants for Christmas, all because he was too greedy or prehaps he can't afford his investment property anymore. It's a general malaise all over the country.

Pigletlover

Meathlass wrote: »

He'll find it very difficult to get new tenants for Christmas, all because he was too greedy or prehaps he can't afford his investment property anymore. It's a general malaise all over the country.

I doubt it, there's a shortage of rental properties in Clonmel, that's why rents have increased so much in the last year or so, because landlords know that tenants have little or no choice.

ciano1

Meathlass wrote: »

we even went to Circles to play air hockey but the table was broken (wonder if he's the guy in one of the previous posts!!!) There was nowhere except a pub to sit down and have a cup of coffee.

Lol last time i checked that air hockey table was gone

archtech

What hasn't helped the town centre is the leakage of "high street" type shops to the Poppyfields. Neither the Carphone Warehouse or Paco should be there as both fit into the category of High Street and should be in the town centre, ok I know the Carphone Warehouse have a shop in Gladstone Street. Hopefully the mixed development of the former Clonmel Meats in Irishtown will be a boost to the town. The new shopping centre on the Davis Road, in the Showgrounds should also bring more business towards the town centre, if /when it starts. Of course many of the surrounding towns now have their own Tesco, Dunnes, Supervalue, Aldi or whoever, the same volume of people don't or have to travel into Clonmel.

I do agree that the bowling alley looks and feels industrial, but it location doesn't help. Regarding a bar beginning provided it in, I know that this would meet huge opposition from the residents in the area.(One developer had great difficulty getting planning permission for a housing development in the area because he was proposing semi-d houses ) The only way you'll get a new bar/public house is to build a hotel, as the opposition to any new proposals has been huge in the past.

Meathlass

I do agree that the bowling alley looks and feels industrial, but it location doesn't help. Regarding a bar beginning provided it in, I know that this would meet huge opposition from the residents in the area.(One developer had great difficulty getting planning permission for a housing development in the area because he was proposing semi-d houses ) The only way you'll get a new bar/public house is to build a hotel, as the opposition to any new proposals has been huge in the past.[/QUOTE]

You're right about the location, even if there was a bar here, it's too far to walk anywhere else from. It's very dependant on having a car to get to it which means there's not much point in having a bar there. The ice rink in Chadwicks will hopefully be better as it's a much more central location. I'd like to think it will be a whole complex with small stalls selling mulled wine, foodstuffs and crafts in the style of Christmas markets in Europe but I haven't heard any of the proposals so doubt it.

Why would there be such opposition to further development in that area of the bypass near the bowling alley? I know there are alot of houses near it but don't see why having a bar there would really affect them at all.

archtech

Meathlass wrote: »

Why would there be such opposition to further development in that area of the bypass near the bowling alley? I know there are alot of houses near it but don't see why having a bar there would really affect them at all.

Because some people are small minded and think it would bring anti-social behaviour to the area and also devalue their houses. There was huge opposition to medium density housing scheme of semi-detached houses in the area within the last 3 years because the residents felt it would devalue their houses.
About 5 years ago the was a planning application for a small neighbourhood centre along with a bar on the Cashel Road and the residents in the area objected to it ont he grounds that it would be a source of anti-social behaviour and encourage underage drinking. The typcial not in my back garden attitude !
Nobody was interested in the fact that they could walk to and from the pub/bar ! The opposition to the development was so hugh that the Planning Authority refused the development.

Meathlass

archtech wrote: »

Because some people are small minded and think it would bring anti-social behaviour to the area and also devalue their houses. There was huge opposition to medium density housing scheme of semi-detached houses in the area within the last 3 years because the residents felt it would devalue their houses.
About 5 years ago the was a planning application for a small neighbourhood centre along with a bar on the Cashel Road and the residents in the area objected to it ont he grounds that it would be a source of anti-social behaviour and encourage underage drinking. The typcial not in my back garden attitude !
Nobody was interested in the fact that they could walk to and from the pub/bar ! The opposition to the development was so hugh that the Planning Authority refused the development.

Why am I not suprised? It's just a typical attitude that some people have. Object to everything without hearing it on it's merits. As if having a lack of entertainment options is helping to stem the tide of anti-social behaviour. You would think the residents in that area would be interested in any shops or bars as they would offer more ammenities. Personally I wouldn't rent or buy any houses out near the bypass. There are so far from town that you would need a car to go anywhere.

murray sparkle

Someone hit the nail on the head about the reason for empty shops all over the town, people are being fed the M&S and Next dream and that's why they are keeping the places empty. I can't blame people like Paco for moving out of town - the rent is probably better and the parking is no problem and if my wife is anything to go by- if women want to spend money they will look at all the options if they are in town or not.

Talking about empty buildings just look at that office block in Gurtnafleur, the 3 storey one at entrance that has FBD in there - two out of the six units are occupied after two years and the rest of the place is in darkness. Why? because one unit costs €70,000 a year to rent. That's crazy. There is a lack of decent quality office space in Clonmel and that would be filled five times over if the rents were more reasonable. But my guess is that whoever owns that building is holding out for another bout of decentralisation or something similar. They may have to wait- the same developers have built an identical building in Ard Gaoithe business park, most of the buildings in Ard Gaoithe have office elements to them as well, there's a couple of thousand square feet of space up for grabs in that new Anglesea street development, there's a new office business park in Kilsheelan that looks nice on the plans, then there's the Ballingarrane developement. The County Enterprise Board are building serviced office buildings up there (admittedly they claim they will cherry pick occupants). So there's an awful lot of empty expensive office space and loads of companies in town crammed into old buildings that would take that space of it was more reasonable.

Meathlass

I went into town on Saturday to do some window shopping. Got parking with no major problems. The one thing I noticed though was that once it got dark there were very few street lights either on or they weren't turned up high enough. At 5.30pm I found myself picking my way gingerly along the street in case I fell over on the street. .