attack

Rossibaby

just say you are attacked on the street by 2 or 3 guys and you need to defend yourself.would ye guys reckon arts such as boxing or a martia art would be better.i mean i've seen tough street fights in the town and when someone starts on you it can escalate fast.and often you cant get away from it,what would be the best thing to put hoods in their place

Black Swan

If it's three on one, and you can't get away, then hope for the Three Stooges, no matter the MA style!

Month after month, we seem to have many recurring threads on what's the best MA for SD. I think two things are most important: the will and the skill. If you don't have the "will" to win, you won't. If you don't have a high level of "skill" (no matter the MA style), your chances of walking away without injury are not good against one or multiple opponents.

Putting macho talk aside, if forced to pick the best MA for SD against multiple opponents in the street, I think I would choose "verbal judo" (where you learn to talk your way out of a gang fight and walk away unharmed).

cowzerp

3 on 1 would definetly be boxing, no doubt-kicking will mean you are going to end up on the ground-the best chance of staying up is by throwing punches, there faster and can be thrown to both sides with ease if trained..any art will help but boxing will be the most effective here..

dunkamania

100m sprint followed by 1km run:)

Power Chords

I'd be inclined to disagree with boxing as it's traning is geared towards a one on one situation and doesn't really deal with the likelyhood or being grabbed from behind or ground techniques, great skill if they attack in single file but if the 3 attack at once best bet would be a martial arts style.
Personal preference would be kenpo, having trained in it for many years amoug other styles, there are techniques geared for multiple attacks and ground techniques.
Just a personal preference but yeah, try verbal judo and the hundred meter sprint first.

westhamutd

Hi

I guess some form of RBSD would be best. The advice I have been given is to run first don't give in to your ego, if you can't do the following

1.avoide triangulation between the people
2.Attack the guy doing all the mouthing first , he is often egging the others on and they back down when he gets hurt
3.Lock of the guy you hit first using head controls, neck c clamp ,eye gouges , or ear rips or choke out neck holds, use him to block other attackers.

have done this in training but i guess its depends on a lot of luck on the street.

tks

arybvtcw0eolkf

I'll go with boxing, its simple and effective.

But if your in a scrap with 2 or 3 people your in a world of trouble regardless what style you practice.

If I'm allowed let my imagination run wild for a moment I'll opt for Kendo or one of the fencing arts Nothing like a big sword over the head to put the willies up a few scumbags.

Khannie

In a 3 v 1, you're gonna be very lucky to walk away. I'd say the best thing to do if you're convinced it's gonna degenerate into blows is pre-emptively go for the mouthiest of them and *hard*.

I think my Muay Thai training would be very helpful (moreso than a traditional martial art, for the amount of time I've been doing it at least). Clinch work, knees, elbows and punches would all be useful. I'd avoid kicking in a 3v1 as others have said. Too easy to get knocked over. Having said that, I'd still expect to get the sh*t knocked out of me tbh.

biko

It also depends of the aggression of the attackers.
If one is merely showing off to 2 mates you'd better off running and let him have his day. Chances are slim he will want anything more than to seem big.

If the three are all equally aggressive and you know they will hurt you very bad then you will have to do whatever it takes to defend yourself.

cowzerp

Power Chords wrote:

I'd be inclined to disagree with boxing as it's traning is geared towards a one on one situation and doesn't really deal with the likelyhood or being grabbed from behind or ground techniques, great skill if they attack in single file but if the 3 attack at once best bet would be a martial arts style.
Personal preference would be kenpo, having trained in it for many years amoug other styles, there are techniques geared for multiple attacks and ground techniques.

do you think boxers only move in 1 direction? good old fashioned hand speed and alertness plus peoples non ability to take smacks to the face is why boxing is the best for multiple attackers, kenpo is useless 1 on 1 never mind 3 on 1, what are you going to do kata them to bits!! i also done kenpo and learned nothing. my 2nd preference would be muay thai without the kicks.

PeakOutput

westhamutd wrote:

The advice I have been given is to run first don't give in to your ego

wish the drink let me think of that last night

saw some scumbag in a shop in town holding a worker against the wall just saw red and pulled him off him things escalated,his mates were there mine were still in the pub and i got my ass kicked,21 and that was the first fight in my life, i really need to learn how to defend myself

cowzerp

PeakOutput wrote:

wish the drink let me think of that last night

saw some scumbag in a shop in town holding a worker against the wall just saw red and pulled him off him things escalated,his mates were there mine were still in the pub and i got my ass kicked,21 and that was the first fight in my life, i really need to learn how to defend myself

Fair play for trying to help the worker-pity your mates did not arrive along!!

PeakOutput

cowzerp wrote:

Fair play for trying to help the worker-pity your mates did not arrive along!!

if i was sober i would of handled it much better and still of been able to help the guy so i pretty much blame myself for putting myself in that situation and getting my ass kicked however it has highlighted to me how ****ed id be if i was forced into a situation like that.

so its kickboxing and grappling in university of limerick for me

dlofnep

I'd say a blend of boxing and judo IF there was really no way out. You should try knock them all down, but if that failed and one of them grabbed you - you could opt for a throw which hopefully will wind them on the concrete.

In saying that, try stay away from these scenarios. I find that trouble only finds you when you're looking for it. Most people can stay away from it. DOn't look at people funny, don't attract attention. Just enjoy yourself.

HammerHeadGym

There's nowt wrong with kicks. I've used 'em plenty of times in real situations and in the ring. Haven't been knocked down once. Not from me kicking anyway

cowzerp

kicks are to slow compared to punches and naturally put you off balance, this is o'k in a 1 on 1 but not with more people involved, judo would be great if it gets in that range, but its to be avoided if possible-hence the boxing..

goo

Is boxing not a **** idea?
Would you not wreck your hand almost straight away?

cowzerp

goo wrote:

Is boxing not a **** idea?
Would you not wreck your hand almost straight away?

i'd say you would. but not a fighter who knows how to punch-cop on.
What would you recommend? getting a punch off all 3 so they break there hands then you win because there all in bits-well done.

goo

No, I meant like something where you don't train with gloves on, or Krav Maga/anything where you train with self defence in mind. Sport is sport.

Roper

My reccomendation would be to run down a blind alley. There's bound to be fire escapes and bins for all sorts of spectacular hilarity.

If 3 people hopped on me I'd concentrate on running away very fast and then make up a story to tell in kratty class later.

cowzerp

goo wrote:

No, I meant like something where you don't train with gloves on, or Krav Maga/anything where you train with self defence in mind. Sport is sport.

Boxers punch with the best technique and therefore have the least chance of breaking there hands-sport is sport is the most stupid thing i ever heard-sport fighters like thai boxers mma and boxers are the toughest fighters in the world and if you dont know that you dont have a clue, Bruce lee based jkd on boxing because of its effectiveness, most martial arts are not good for self defense, i've took part in kyokushinki karate and would rate that highly but the likes of kenpo etc...:p

O'Leprosy

westhamutd wrote:

1.avoid triangulation between the people
2.Attack the guy doing all the mouthing first , he is often egging the others on and they back down when he gets hurt
3.Lock of the guy you hit first using head controls, neck c clamp ,eye gouges , or ear rips or choke out neck holds, use him to block other attackers.

Well, I'd say, eating your pride and a bit of grovelling might be the best thing to start first. If that does not work as dunkamania puts it " 100m sprint followed by 1km run ".
Avoiding triangulation would be a good idea if it is kicking off anyway and try and deck the guy doing all the mouthing first, but "Lock of the guy you hit first using head controls, neck c clamp ,eye gouges , or ear rips or choke out neck holds," would be a VERY dangerous thing to do, if you could get the guts to try it as the fear of retribution if you don't pull it off. The situation could quite easily change from just getting a few kicks and punches to getting a life threatening beating from a few scumbags who would definetly step up the thrashing should you rip the ear/eye gouge one of them etc. Just my thoughts. Also remember reading Hells Angel, the autobiography of Sonny Barger who started the Hells Angels in Oakland, California in 1958. Spent something like 14 years in prison, legendary street fighter and bar brawler. Anyway, I remeber him stating in his book, when getting a "foot stomping" by several fellas from rival bike bangs which occured to him more than a few times in his life (naturally, there was payback for the individuals concerned ! ) he said rolling into a ball, defending your self by using your legs to block etc was the best thing. Also he said that, generally, when several guys are giving you a foot stomping, the actual damamge inflicted was not often that bad, when they see they have dominence over you and that you have been 'put in your place", they tend to be satisfied with themselves and ease up. Still think " 100m sprint followed by 1km run " would be best though.

Clive

Scaldy-jitsu.

goo

Double post, jaysus.

goo

cowzerp wrote:

Boxers punch with the best technique and therefore have the least chance of breaking there hands-sport is sport is the most stupid thing i ever heard-sport fighters like thai boxers mma and boxers are the toughest fighters in the world and if you dont know that you dont have a clue, Bruce lee based jkd on boxing because of its effectiveness, most martial arts are not good for self defense, i've took part in kyokushinki karate and would rate that highly but the likes of kenpo etc...:p

I didn't mean training in a sport would be useless, I just meant that I would think that training for self defence would be more useful when it comes to defending yourself than training without self defence in mind. You could probably have done without the harsh, harsh criticism.

Dave Joyce

Well, I'd say, eating your pride and a bit of grovelling might be the best thing to start first. If that does not work as dunkamania puts it " 100m sprint followed by 1km run ".

Best of advice particularly if its in that type of situation and EVEN moreso if theres alcohol involved. However, there are ocassions (admittedly rare) when you're not given any option but fight (IE when flight is NOT an option) and this is the reason SOME of us train this type of scenario. Training this type of situation correctly SHOULD teach you to recognise whats going down and help you avoid the

triangulation

scenario, as by this time its already too late with multiple attackers. Just to clarify I'm not slaggin off O'Leprosy, just advising that if you wait THAT long to react to multiple attackers the ball's in their court.

I may have totally picked this up the wrong way but some people SEEMED to have been advocating slugging it out with FISTS against multiple attackers and this is suicide if they know how to run this type of situation.

kravist

cowzerp wrote:

Boxers punch with the best technique and therefore have the least chance of breaking there hands-sport is sport is the most stupid thing i ever heard-sport fighters like thai boxers mma and boxers are the toughest fighters in the world and if you dont know that you dont have a clue, Bruce lee based jkd on boxing because of its effectiveness, most martial arts are not good for self defense, i've took part in kyokushinki karate and would rate that highly but the likes of kenpo etc...:p

Didn't Mike Tyson break his wrist in a street fight?

For me, in such situations boxing is good, but Krav Maga would be better. And yes i am biased.

BUt also, remember there's no such thing as magic..and i dont claim that after a 10 weeks course of KM you'll be suitably equipped.!!!

Firstly, it teaches to avail of the "Run Away" option!!!
It also trains to create a situation where by escape is possible.
Keep away from hitting the ground, escape is more difficult from there.
Kicks may be slower, but enable you to keep at a further distance.
Try and improvise with a weapon. If you can take 1 out, uses his/her body as a buffer to keep the others at bay.
remember.."it's the fight in the dog and not the dog in the fight"
and when you get/develop your chance....RUN LIKE HELL!

hypnosisdublin

cowzerp wrote:

Boxers punch with the best technique and therefore have the least chance of breaking there hands

Boxers are more likely to break their hands because they punch so hard!

Joe Calzaghe frequently has to fight with just one hand because of the damage he causes himself when he lands his hardest punches.

kravist wrote:

Didn't Mike Tyson break his wrist in a street fight?

Yeah. Tyson fractured his hand in a street fight with his nemesis Mitch Green, someone he easily beat when they faced each other earlier in the boxing ring.

In a street fight, without the wraps and the gloves that they're used to wearing, it's very easy for a boxers to badly damage their hands.

I still think boxing is still a great form of self-defence though.

cowzerp

kravist wrote:

Didn't Mike Tyson break his wrist in a street fight?
Keep away from hitting the ground, escape is more difficult from there.
Kicks may be slower, but enable you to keep at a further distance

Anyone can break there hand and just because iron mike was a boxer does not mean that his punch was'nt sloppy-The fact that your advocating kicks in a 3 against 1 situation suggests to me that your not realistic about your hopes of staying on your feet and i doubt you've ever been in this situation, and if you where you did not come out to well, while your commited to kicking 1 fella he other 2 are pouncing on you. with punching you could punch 3 fella's all within a couple of seconds and repeat this over and over with minimum chance of ending up on the ground. Most self defense systems rely on attackers doing exactly what you think attackers do-not random acts that you can re-act to. i'd rather krav maga than nothing but boxing would be the best by far.

Khannie

cowzerp wrote:

but boxing would be the best by far.

I think the elbows from Muay Thai (and to a lesser extent knees) give it an advantage over boxing in a situation like this as it means you're not forced to keep things longer range (or maybe that you can deal better with things if it gets close up). I wouldn't be using kicks personally though.

arybvtcw0eolkf

This thread is so funny.

cowzerp

Khannie wrote:

I think the elbows from Muay Thai (and to a lesser extent knees) give it an advantage over boxing in a situation like this as it means you're not forced to keep things longer range (or maybe that you can deal better with things if it gets close up). I wouldn't be using kicks personally though.

uppercuts and hooks are used in the same range as elbows, and boxers use there elbows anyway-just discreetly!! The skills from thai would be very effective assuming the thai boxer has good punches, then i'd agree with you.
and yes mairt my da would beat everybody elses da-:D

arybvtcw0eolkf

Seriously Paul its a funny thread.

I bet alot of posters here have never been involved in a row on the street and would sh*t themselves. Because I've said it for years, the dojo/gym/club or whatever can not in a million year's replicate the voilence you'll encounter on the street.

And its that simple. The nearest you'll come to the street is MMA, all the rest is just getting it in half measure.

I was working in a club in town one night with a South African lad who told us all about his Thai boxing skills, it kicked off one night, he tried to throw a ew elbows, I broke my bollox laughing at his efforts later and told him "Listen Jay, nothing works better than a kick in the bollox or a punch in the fvcking mouth", "get that straight and you'll be grand ..... Oh, and no more stupid fvcking elbows"

cowzerp

i agree that mma is the best all round fighting, no doubts-and also that most lads will **** themselves when in a real fight!! its the multiple attackers that fecks up mma because mma's strenght over other arts is the grappling and with a few lads attacking this has to be avoided, im sure you'll agree and with your background in kickboxing and judo you'd have a good understanding of this..

arybvtcw0eolkf

cowzerp wrote:

i agree that mma is the best all round fighting, no doubts-and also that most lads will **** themselves when in a real fight!! its the multiple attackers that fecks up mma because mma's strenght over other arts is the grappling and with a few lads attacking this has to be avoided, im sure you'll agree and with your background in kickboxing and judo you'd have a good understanding of this..

My views in all this don't even come from a kickboxing and Judo background. My view's come from over 15yrs working in pubs and clubs.

I've had very few fights where I was fighting more than one person, simply because I'd have a crew of lads with me. But I have had a few tough one's, and its usually throw punches and kicks like a mad bastard until the lads arrive!.

The ground is the very worse place to go, and thats why I think BJJ as a self defence sucks, great sport but alone its a sh*t fighting system. But thats just my opinion.

Killme00

The best way to respond is to be 100% commited to whatever you are going to do. If you are going to run then run hard. If you are going to fight then fight and mean it. Hit Hard and Hit often and dont stop until all three are down and even then make sure they stay down.

cowzerp

Killme00 wrote:

The best way to respond is to be 100% commited to whatever you are going to do. If you are going to run then run hard. If you are going to fight then fight and mean it. Hit Hard and Hit often and dont stop until all three are down and even then make sure they stay down.

Agreed

Khannie

Mairt wrote:

I bet alot of posters here have never been involved in a row on the street and would sh*t themselves.

I've no problem admitting that in a 3v1, where I'm the 1, I'm gonna be very very f*cking nervous. (I hope that's shephards pie in my underpants) I'm also sure I'd get my ass handed to me 99 times out of 100 if it came to slugging it out.

Is there anyone here who thinks they wouldn't **** themselves? Or, even more hillarious....is there anyone here who thinks they're well able for a 3v1?

cowzerp

i've been there 2 times and came out on top-just went to town on them and most people are weak and give in when punched hard a few times, if i **** myself i would of been beaten up, once was on a mini bus with nowhere to run, and other was gang of diks on bikes who i would also not outrun. remember if they need numbers there probably weak people anyway.

Dragan

Khannie wrote:

Is there anyone here who thinks they wouldn't **** themselves? Or, even more hillarious....is there anyone here who thinks they're well able for a 3v1?

As with most conversations on this board that revolve around what people "train" for….yes, I have been in a few multiple attacker situations.

Mairt summed it up best by saying it's throw digs and wait for help. To think otherwise is foolish.

Don't be fooled by Jackie Chan and Jason Bourne…. The majority of multiple attacker situations boil down to how many shots you can take before your back up arrives, whatever form that might take.

cowzerp

The other important fact is a the 3 attackers trained fighters or just muppets who think that your a soft touch! if trained fighters i'd say you may be in trouble, if not and you are then you might be suprised by yourself if you hold your nerve.

Also fighting outside of a sporting enviroment is for mugs and should be avoided if possible, i always say that i hope to never be in another street fight in my life, but you never know what sort of people you might bump into when going about your business. so fingers crossed

Kev

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iDlzL7zrNU

cowzerp

and not a kick to be seen, just accurate punches, bad technique but it worked!

goo

I thought he only posted that to be funny, not as an example of what's effective.
They went at him twice, from what we saw, and the second time they were taking turns.

paxo

Khannie wrote:

..is there anyone here who thinks they're well able for a 3v1?

Yes if Cowzerp and Mairt give me a hand I'd be up to take on any other board member
Paxo:D

arybvtcw0eolkf

Oh did I say this already.... This is one funny ass thread.

kravist

cowzerp wrote:

Anyone can break there hand and just because iron mike was a boxer does not mean that his punch was'nt sloppy-The fact that your advocating kicks in a 3 against 1 situation suggests to me that your not realistic about your hopes of staying on your feet and i doubt you've ever been in this situation, and if you where you did not come out to well, while your commited to kicking 1 fella he other 2 are pouncing on you. with punching you could punch 3 fella's all within a couple of seconds and repeat this over and over with minimum chance of ending up on the ground. Most self defense systems rely on attackers doing exactly what you think attackers do-not random acts that you can re-act to. i'd rather krav maga than nothing but boxing would be the best by far.

I was thinking in terms of a pre emptive kick!! IE: if you know its going to kick off, get your revenge in first.
To suggest using a kick does not insinuate that one only use kicks..kick, punch, punch sounds reasonable to me. Must i spell this out every time??
Whether or not i've been in such a situation is none of your concern. I wouldn't go boasting about my preformance regardless of the outcome here on boards.

Nothingcompares

kravist wrote:

I was thinking in terms of a pre emptive kick!! IE: if you know its going to kick off, get your revenge in first.

I think this freudian slip says a lot about the mentailiy of krav maga practioneers.

Dave Joyce

I think this freudian slip says a lot about the mentailiy of krav maga practioneers.

Well apart from your usual SMARTASS contributions, I think this says even more about your preparedness for that type of situation. I thought there was some interesting contributions to this thread (a lot of which I would not have agreed with but it WAS interesting to see what way some people think), but as usual, in most threads where you have nothing worthwhile to add, you come in attempt to piss pull certain people. You are indeed someone who has a lot to offer to threads where your knowledge is obviously lacking.

Nothingcompares

That's a fair enough critisism Dave I'll try not to do it in the future.

thefizz

Thats one funny video clip, LOL.