Licence carrying

LOTTOWINNER

I was stopped yesterday evening at a Garda checkpoint(half mile from my house), when he noticed my air-rifle in the back seat, they informed me that because I hadn't my gun-licence with me( it was at home) that I had comitted an offence of carrying an un-licenced firearm.
He also informed me that he could confiscate the gun.
I told him that I have had guns for over 20 years and I never carry my gun licence, I should add that I never shoot out side a 5 mile radius of were I live. He phoned thru' my gun details and everything checked out.

My question is, am I the only person who doesn't carry their licence with them?

alan123

You should have it in your car at least. He can take the gun from you. I bring it to save hassle when a passing motorist calls the Guards because they saw a suspicious man in cammo with a gun climing through a ditch. Its inevitable and I want as little grief as possible when it does happen!!

Did you win the lotto???

rrpc

LOTTOWINNER wrote:

I was stopped yesterday evening at a Garda checkpoint(half mile from my house), when he noticed my air-rifle in the back seat, they informed me that because I hadn't my gun-licence with me( it was at home) that I had comitted an offence of carrying an un-licenced firearm.

You weren't carrying an unlicensed firearm. You have a licence for it. There is actually no law that states you should carry your licence with the firearm, it's just good sense to do so if you are travelling with the firearm in case you are stopped and saves a lot of hassle which you obviously encountered.

Some people carry their license in the same case as the firearm. I myself don't think this is such a good idea because if someone stole the firearm they would also have the licence for it and that could be worse trouble for you.

As a general rule, it's a good idea to have the license if you are travelling some distance, but I would leave it to you to decide when you should and shouldn't need to. There's certainly no case to be made in court against you.

Flying

First of all whoever the Garda maybe he needs to check his facts as he is wrong on all counts.

Also where exactly did this happen, I see your in Louth as in Dundalk I had this crap a few years ago when both my father and I will heading on Foot to hunt with weapons in gunslips and were stopped by an over zealous police car enroute to our safe hunting area were we had permission to hunt.

They backed off immediately when my father identified both myself and him as members of the army.

I would not worry and also I have never carried my license with me as it is not practical, just my foreshore permit.

rrpc

alan123 wrote:

You should have it in your car at least. He can take the gun from you.

He can't if you have a licence. The best thing is to memorise your pulse id and quote it to the Garda in cases where you are stopped. I'd have a mortal terror of losing the damn thing or having it stolen so as a general rule I would have it in the car (I travel a lot to competitions), but you have the right to show up at a station to produce it if necessary.

Certainly your pulse id should be enough. They can radio it in to their local to check you out.

LOTTOWINNER

cheers Lads for the reply, by the way Alan123, All I won was a scratch card!!!

I prefer to keep well within the law, so I don't want to "get on the wrong side" of the law.
Maybe I'll do a few photo copies and leave them in the car, I was a bit p***ed off at the time.

And it was near Kilsaran, flying

Thanks again!!

foxhunter

I always carry the licence in the jeep as i do a lot of lamping for various farmers .They ring me i go out and sort the fox population for them but some of the places i go im a stranger to all the locals around .
So i park up in a gateway go for a walk and come back to the jeep and the local guard is waiting .
Then the farmer steps out and says oh its yourself i forgot you were coming .
This is after ive spent half an hour explaning what im doing there and who i am even after showing all the relevant paperwork .
Imagine how long it would take without it.

alan123

Now call me a stick in the mud, but Ill just carry a copy of my licence and insurance rather than open this can o worms......



(2) A member of the Garda Síochána or an authorised person may, if he has reasonable grounds for suspecting that a person has committed an offence under Part II or under section 45, 47, 51, 52 or 53 of this Act, at all reasonable times stop any person who is suspected by him of being in any way concerned in the offence and require the person to give his name and address and to declare and, if such member or authorised person, as the case may be, considers it necessary, to produce on demand for examination any specimen of fauna or flora or any part or product of any such specimen or any thing which is mentioned in subsection (7) of this section, which is in the person's possession and such member or authorised person may seize and detain any specimen or part or product of a specimen or any thing so produced which appears to him to be something which might be required as evidence in proceedings for an offence under this Act.


7) The things referred to in subsection (2) of this section are a firearm, trap, snare, net, line, hook, arrow, dart or spear, or a similar device, instrument or missile calculated or likely to cause death or bodily injury to any wild bird or wild mammal coming in contact with it, birdlime or any substance of a like nature, poisonous, poisoned or stupefying bait, tracer shot or a gun or container mentioned in section 33 (2) of this Act, and a decoy or electrical or other instrument, device or appliance mentioned in section 35 (1) or 39 of this Act.

Furthermore.....

(2) A member of the Garda Síochána or an authorised person who has reasonable grounds for suspecting that a person has committed an offence under any provision of the Wildlife Acts, 1976 and 2000, may, at all reasonable times, stop and search any person who is suspected by such member or authorised person, as the case may be, of being in any way concerned in the offence and require the person to give his name and address and to declare and, if such member or authorised person, as the case may be, considers it necessary to produce on demand for examination—

(a) any specimen of fauna, flora, fossils or minerals or any part, product or derivative of any such specimen, or

(b) any licence or permission granted by the Minister under the Wildlife Acts, 1976 and 2000 (including any certificate deemed, pursuant to section 29(5) of this Act, to be a licence so granted), or

(c) in the case of a person who is resident in a Member State of the European Community other than the State, any European Firearms Pass duly issued to such person to which paragraphs (4) and (5) of Regulation 7 of the European Communities (Acquisition and Possession of Weapons and Ammunition) Regulations, 1993 (S.I. No. 362 of 1993), relate or any other permit, licence, authorisation or other document duly issued by a national competent authority of such a Member State, or

rrpc

And call me pernickety too but all that is referring to is the wildlife act and offences carried out under said act. If you are driving in your car with your firearm, you cannot reasonably be suspected of carrying out such an offence.

The production part of that refers to a permit to hunt wildlife which in some cases could be your firearms cert, but not all.

The important part of all that is that at no stage does it require the immediate production of a firearms cert for carrying a firearm in a vehicle which is what the OP was talking about.

I have said that it may be prudent to have your cert in the car. I just don't agree with carrying it with your firearm.

alan123

Alls the guy has to say is that he "suspects" you were "attempting" to commit an offence. Its not worth the hassle! I certainly wont be argueing with the guy on the roadside about the finer points of the Wildlife Act and the definition of a licence. Theres a lot to be said for the ol "Fair enough Guard, there you go, and heres my insurance to boot, have a nice day!"

If you were the Guard and a guy pulled up at a checkpoint with a semi automatic shotgun in the boot 1000 rounds of ammo a balaclava and cammo jacket would you be letting him go because he tells you the finer points of the Wildlife Act?!!!!!

FLAG

Powers of members of Gárda Síochána. 22.—(1) Any member of the Gárda Síochána may demand from any person whom he observes or believes to be in possession of, using, or carrying a firearm or any ammunition, the production of his firearm certificate and if such person fails to produce and permit such member to read a firearm certificate authorising him to have possession of, use, or carry (as-the case may require) such firearm or ammunition, such member of the Gárda Síochána may unless such person shows that he is entitled by law to have possession of, use, or carry (as the case may require) at that time and in that place such firearm or ammunition without having a firearm certificate therefor demand from such person his name and address.

(2) If any person, on demand being made to him under this section by a member of the Gárda Síochána, refuses to give to such member his name and address or gives a name or address which is false or misleading in any material particular, he shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding ten pounds.

Bottom line is that unless you are suspected of a firearms offence all the Gardai can take from you is your name and address.

However to avoid any confusion and the recurrent ignorance of the Gardai of the Firearms Acts it would be prudent to carry your firearms certificate if you are carrying your firearm no matter where you are, after all the certificate is only a piece of paper that can be copied lots of times...........get a grip and carry your certificate to avoid confusion....................

Now all that being said why would anyone carry an exposed firearm (even an air-rifle) in the back of their car on a public road!!!!

The general public including the Gardai are not all that up to speed with firearms, in a way I suppose "lottowinner" was lucky to be stopped by uniformed (if uninformed) Gardai and not some of the armed variety who might of taken a different view, a dregree of common sense clearly would be to carry any firearm at least out of sight!

Attached were recomendations publised by SSAI in 2005. This is really about a bit of kop on and not if it is in the powers of the gardai to seize a firearm if the person carrying it cannot produce a piece of paper!

kowloon

Dont carry the original, i carried mine in one of those A4 plastic wallets, got it wet and it disintegrated, luckily it was near renewal.

Sparks

FLAG wrote:

Bottom line is that unless you are suspected of a firearms offence all the Gardai can take from you is your name and address.

I wouldn't push that - the Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act sets things up so that the above distinction is in practical effect meaningless, since mere possession of a firearm in a public place can legally be argued by a Garda as being an offence under that act, and no warrant is needed to then make an arrest. Sure, when you get to court, it's all easily straightened out, but that's a lot of hassle and expense for the shooter concerned and bad PR for all involved.

Personally, I used to keep my cert in my shooting diary, which was always in my kitbag and thus always to hand, but I'm thinking now that it'd be no harm to have a photocopy of it in the rifle case as well, and I've known people to keep copies of their certs actually taped to the butt of their rifles.

get a grip and carry your certificate to avoid confusion....................
Now all that being said why would anyone carry an exposed firearm (even an air-rifle) in the back of their car on a public road!!!!

Agreed on both points. Costs the shooter next to nothing and gains them a lot of peace of mind.

chem

Its all well and good saying we should carry our licence with us but the point was already made for me by FLAG "its only a piece of paper".

I do carry it on me some of the time while out shooting but by the end of the year it is more like a dead sea scroll after countless wettings in the rainy winters (and summers) and folding and unfolding the damn thing:o

God help us when it has to last 3 years:eek: might have to get CSI on the case to figure out what it once was

Pitty we cant get a credit card type licence with a photo on it but then again that would be asking to much from the powers that be :rolleyes:

Sparks

A4 laminators cost about €30 in dabs or viking direct, and less if you can find them in argos...

chem

Cheers sparks but could we not ask for something that is abit more practical to carry and that might last the 3 years? Its not that much to ask. Even a drivers licence type licence would do. All details on a magnetic strip on the back of the card and photo on the front. it could even be reused each time it had to be renewed (to save on paper) as we are all enviromentaly aware now.

How long will it take untill someone in government comes up with a lead tax to put on shot and bullets that enter the enviroment? MORE UNDER HANDED TAX:mad:

kowloon

Sparks wrote:

A4 laminators cost about €30 in dabs or viking direct, and less if you can find them in argos...

I used the laminator in work, makes it completely waterproof, but i just take a photocopy so i dont lose the original.
Dont use the stick on stuff, it peels off at the edges.

chem

Point is why the hell should we have to go to the expence of pouring plastic over our licence? It costs enough as is and we get notting in return but greef. Should we frame the licence behind glass and carry it with us? Why not ask for something that will last instaed of putting up with what we have at presant?

Will a member of the gardi accept a photo copy of your licence? its easy to cover details on anything and photo copy them!

cmd17hmr

i kno this is a stupid thing to say but what if you tell the garda you think lost it where you were hunting and your just driving home to make sure before you file it missing in your local station.:rolleyes:
he cant prove you wrong and your not going to leave the gun in the field or wherever you were using it.

ill shut up now
its just a way out of trouble if you forgot it

and i dont carry mine either because its filled with pen marks where the numbers and names were changed you do feel imbarresed looking at it let alone hand it over

rrpc

Sparks wrote:

A4 laminators cost about €30 in dabs or viking direct, and less if you can find them in argos...

They're even cheaper than all of those if you get one in Lidl I think mine cost 14.99!

However. Laminating a firearms cert just turns it from an awkward piece of paper into an awkward, unwieldy piece of plastic that you certainly can't put in your back pocket.

I go along with keeping it in your car, but as others have said, the process of keeping it on your person whilst negotiating ditches, hedges and sudden downpours could turn it into a nicely unreadable lump of papier mache.

The whole issue of photocopying it is not necessarily the answer either because it's just a copy and could be turned against you if you produced it to a Garda.

We really should have a more manageable document, something like the driving licence with a handy plastic pocket to keep it in would be a far superior beast.

In short. You may be (however unlikely that may be) arrested, but if you know your pulse id, and the phone number of your local station, no Garda is going to arrest you unless they are looking for extra paperwork and a bollocking from their station sergeant for wasting time.

.243

way back when i started shooting (it was a green a4 page back then for all you freshmens)i had put mine in my wallet when i was out shooting,but just when i had forgotton to put it back in the safe and i went off up country to see my girlfriend in college,my wallet got picked on me,two licences 300 "pounds"and credit cards gone,this was 10 years ago in dundalk of all places to lose your licences
so i went to the garda station to report them stolen and got a serious earful for my "incompentene of not secureing an important document that could have now fallen into the hands of blah blah blah",

since then they stay at home in the safe and if some guard wants to see that little piece of paper(which they wont because they have it verfied when they radio through your name and address and your firearms pop up automatically under it with all the details)they know where to find me,

firearms holders are deemed to be the most responsible people (excluding those who have slipped through the net "sign and endangered bird shooters),we go through a screeing process to deem us responsible enough to hold a firearm,

rrpc

I well remember the green A4 page (with scratchings out and ink blobs ). I remember being asked for mine while setting the sights of the rifle on my land by a Garda shouting through the hedge. (I jest not).

The poor bugger had been called out by a not so nice neighbour half a mile away who reported 'lots of shooting' and had to traipse through a field before ho got to me.

Waved the green paper at him and he headed off with a warning to be sure of my backstop! (back then, Gardai knew something about shooting ).

Common sense should prevail in these instances and the pulse system can find you from your name or just your date of birth. It's usually handy to have memorised your pulse id, as that knowledge alone should convince any Garda that you're above board.

alan123

Its only a piece of paper, but then so is a driving licence, insurance disc, tax disc, declaration of war, multi million pound contract etc etc. The point being, its still important. If you substitute in "five hundred euro note" every time "cert" is mentioned it puts a different spin on it!!!...

"Its all well and good saying we should carry our licence with us but the point was already made for me by FLAG "its only a five hundred euro note"."

As for the Guards being ignorant, can you blame them? Most wont have any dealings with firearms from one end of the year to the next, do you expect them to know the firearms act, wildlife act, firearms and ofensive weapons act, offences against the state act etc etc off the tip of their tongues. Blaming their "ignorance" is a cop out (pardon the pun!). Most of us dont know these acts very well and we are obliged to! Its like saying Im ignorant when it comes to rifle shooting. I am a shooter but Im not exposed to this type of shooting regularly so Im not up to scratch on it ,but I have a jist of it. Same as the Guard and the firearms act. Cut them some slack, we should be working with them. (and I know it goes both ways before the replies come thick and fast!!!!!!!)

Our atitude should be "This guy probably isnt sure what hes looking for so lets help him out, heres my licence, heres my insurance, answer all his questions"
-Guard happy, shooter happy, job oxo, bobs your uncle and fanny is your aunt!

CJhaughey

On the subject of practicality, you can get a material called tyvek which is able to withstand most abuse that is thrown at it.
Would it not be a whole lot better if the license was printed on a type of material that could take getting wet and not tear up?
Same goes for the deer license it could be made on a waterproof sheet of paper and would be almost indestructible then.

rrpc

alan123 wrote:

Its only a piece of paper, but then so is a driving licence, insurance disc, tax disc, declaration of war, multi million pound contract etc etc. The point being, its still important. If you substitute in "five hundred euro note" every time "cert" is mentioned it puts a different spin on it!!!...

"Its all well and good saying we should carry our licence with us but the point was already made for me by FLAG "its only a five hundred euro note"."

As for the Guards being ignorant, can you blame them? Most wont have any dealings with firearms from one end of the year to the next, do you expect them to know the firearms act, wildlife act, firearms and ofensive weapons act, offences against the state act etc etc off the tip of their tongues. Blaming their "ignorance" is a cop out (pardon the pun!). Most of us dont know these acts very well and we are obliged to! Its like saying Im ignorant when it comes to rifle shooting. I am a shooter but Im not exposed to this type of shooting regularly so Im not up to scratch on it ,but I have a jist of it. Same as the Guard and the firearms act. Cut them some slack, we should be working with them. (and I know it goes both ways before the replies come thick and fast!!!!!!!)

Our atitude should be "This guy probably isnt sure what hes looking for so lets help him out, heres my licence, heres my insurance, answer all his questions"
-Guard happy, shooter happy, job oxo, bobs your uncle and fanny is your aunt!

There are still practical problems with this Alan and that's what this thread is trying to address. Most people here accept that you should have your licence with you, it's just the best way of doing so without either putting the document itself at risk of loss or destruction, or getting into trouble with the law.

As you say, if you substitute €500 note for cert then would you be willing to stick it in your back pocket whilst traversing hills, dales, hedgerows and forests? Those of us in the target shooting fraternity usually have nice, (relatively cushy) ranges to go to and such considerations are not relevant. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't recognise the difficulties our brethern in the more 'rough' shooting disciplines encounter on a daily basis.

On the legal side, it has been established that you can and are obliged to give your name and address to a Garda when requested to do so. If you have a pulse id, you can give that to them as well. I am not advocating that anyone should fail to co-operate with Gardai, quite the contrary, but this is not a one way street and any Garda who receives your full co-operation should be willing to go half way to meeting you.

The real problem is with the document itself. If it were less unwieldy and more like (as you put it yourself) a driving licence, tax disc or insurance disc then this problem wouldn't arise.

cavan shooter

For one I carry my permit with me, after all thats what says i can carry the fire arm and x rounds of ammunition. It is second nature, the other thing I carry is the gun club membership card and the NARGC card.

There is always awkward fellas in all walks of life even in the guards, lets be honest if a garda ignored you as you were walking down a road, would you not be worried. On two occassions I had dealings with the gards walking down a country road to get in to the next fields

1. The car stopped and he asked me if I got anything, asked me was there many birds about (pheasants) then said good bye and off he went garda in his 40's and living in the area
2 years later
2. Two young lads in the squad asked me where I was going. Told them the story, one lad said I shouldn't be on the public road (country road, not even a busy road) with a gun. I explained I was nipping into the field down the road 150 yrds to go in after ducks on a river. You'd be better to stayin to the fields said one(fair point!!). I'm not convinced on the public road bit, they drove off even said best of luck

alan123

rrpc wrote:

As you say, if you substitute €500 note for cert then would you be willing to stick it in your back pocket whilst traversing hills, dales, hedgerows and forests? Those of us in the target shooting fraternity usually have nice, (relatively cushy) ranges to go to and such considerations are not relevant. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't recognise the difficulties our brethern in the more 'rough' shooting disciplines encounter on a daily basis.

.

Im a rough shooter and I wouldnt bring my licence around the fields with me, but i would have it in the glove box of my car. Mind you the ol target shooting sounds nice compared to sitting in a hide in the pouring rain; anyone want to trade a Beretta 682E for one of those Tactical .223 .17 subsonic suppressor bipod gizmos?!!!

(For the record, I dont even know what colour a €500 note is!!!!)

SMERSH

alan123 wrote:

(For the record, I dont even know what colour a €500 note is!!!!)

Let me check my wallet.

SMERSH

Another thought, Is laminating your licence legal? Would there be issues of non acceptance by dealers or Gardaí if they cannot examine the paper?

Sparks

It's not the physical form of the licence that's important smersh, but the information on it, so lamination shouldn't be illegal.

patbundy

why dont ye photocopy it and laminate that

V Bull

You guys just crack me up and make me laugh.

We hear about these stories all the time, a Garda stopping you while you are out shooting and ask for proof of ownership and your licence. You still havent learnt anything. You have to prove that the firearm and ammo that you are carrying are licenced and yours.

"Agh, Jaysus Garda, it doesnt say anywhere on the licence that I have to carry it with me, so I dont have it, right head."

WRONG.

Your certificate authorises you to have in your possession, use and carry a certain firearm and quantity of ammo subject to condictions bla bla.

You go out and spend big money on a shootgun / rifle and other bits, but you're too mean and stingie to have your licence cert photo copied and or laminated.

Wake up guys, it's common sence to have your cert with you and on your person at all times when shooting to PROVE your identity, your firearms identity and proof of permission to shoot on the land.

But there's no photo ID on the cert, I could be anyone, I hear the clever tooo-its say, and the arguement goes on and on, and nobody learns............. Attitudes like that just get up the Garda's nose, no wonder some of you out there have a hard time getting licences, and lets be honest, you deserve it.

This topic has been touched on time and again, but no-one listens, sad eh.

alan123

Wildlife rangers were out last week end checking shooters, probably in response to the red kite incident.

cavan shooter

V Bull you are right I would have been more subtle but you said it as it is. The piece of paper is the permit and you should have it with you if you are carrying a fire arm and ammo

V Bull

Thanks Cavan Shooter, but I was actually holding back.

Great fishing up your neck of the woods, used to go with my dad when I was a lad, many moons ago.............

Thanks a mill...............:)

V Bull

Hey Alan123, the Wildlife Rangers were down at the Midlands last Monday & Tuesday practicing or what ever, and I beleive that one or two even hit the target..................Teee Heeee...........

rrpc

If you had read the full thread V-Bull, you'd see that everyone agrees that you should keep your licence with you in some way or other. It's the little details of how to do so safely that are the main topic of discussion. There is also a legal question as to whether you have to.

V Bull wrote:

You guys just crack me up and make me laugh.

We hear about these stories all the time, a Garda stopping you while you are out shooting and ask for proof of ownership and your licence. You still havent learnt anything. You have to prove that the firearm and ammo that you are carrying are licenced and yours.

On a strictly legal basis, you can do so easily by producing your licence at the station, or by giving your name and address which is the only thing you're legally obliged to do.

Your certificate authorises you to have in your possession, use and carry a certain firearm and quantity of ammo subject to condictions bla bla.

You go out and spend big money on a shootgun / rifle and other bits, but you're too mean and stingie to have your licence cert photo copied and or laminated.

And nobody has established here if a Garda would accept a photocopy. Would you? And as for laminating an A5 page to make it easier to carry???

Wake up guys, it's common sence to have your cert with you and on your person at all times when shooting to PROVE your identity, your firearms identity and proof of permission to shoot on the land.

But there's no photo ID on the cert, I could be anyone, I hear the clever tooo-its say, and the arguement goes on and on, and nobody learns............. Attitudes like that just get up the Garda's nose, no wonder some of you out there have a hard time getting licences, and lets be honest, you deserve it.

Agreed. But if you lose it, or it gets destroyed or damaged, then I'm sure they'll clap you on the back and tell you your a great chap indeed when you try to explain it to them. :rolleyes:

Bottom line. The so-called licence we are issued is a joke. It is unwieldy, looks like something that was lashed up on Microsoft Word by someone with half an hour to spare and has the square root of damn all information on it.

cavan shooter

I think we all agree on that. For one I remember putting in a submission at the time the cja was at bill stage, suggesting that they license the person not the firearm (thats the problem)

credit card style licence with a chip/magnet strip info and changes that can be made at the swipe of the card. Also 5 year licence, One of the biggest issues the guards have is the amount of firearms under peoples beds and they don't use them (my brother being one)i.e no just cause.

Link the licence to the amount of ammo etc, then if they see your not buying ammo, why do you need a fire arm. I agree put in a proper system and then we all are happy carrying a credit card sized id(photo) etc...

Please no civil liberties arguments, I for one actually believe there should be gun control... the older i get the more i think there should be tighter controls but on the people not the caliber etc... has anyone stood in a gun shop lately and listened to some people who come in i for one heard a guy ask questions on getting an AR 15, On the funny side can you imagine the Supers face!!!!!!:D

Trojan911

LOTTOWINNER wrote:

My question is, am I the only person who doesn't carry their licence with them?

Nope, I never carry mine unless I am heading up to Limerick to shoot. When I shoot local I never carry it.

I was stopped locally at a drink drive checkpoint a few months back & the officer asked me how did I get on, having noticed the pump on the back seat. No licence asked for but suggested I cover it up in future, to which I now comply. No breath test requested either....

TJ911...

cavan shooter

Theirs my point as well no hassel all depends on the guard.....

V Bull

There goes the attitude again rrpc, the law doesnt say I have to have my licence on me, and the law doesnt say this, that and the other thing..............

The Gardai are right in giving you guys a hard time.

Wake up............................

alan123

Trojan911 wrote:

Nope, I never carry mine unless I am heading up to Limerick to shoot. When I shoot local I never carry it.

I was stopped locally at a drink drive checkpoint a few months back & the officer asked me how did I get on, having noticed the pump on the back seat. No licence asked for but suggested I cover it up in future, to which I now comply. No breath test requested either....

TJ911...

"Limerick, pump, checkpoint"- How did you NOT get a cavity search!!!!

The rangers asked my buddy a few questions V Bull: What are you shooting? Whos permission have you got? Can your gun fire more than three shots?
(his gun can fire more than three shots but only after you break it and put in another two shells!)

rrpc

V Bull wrote:

There goes the attitude again rrpc, the law doesnt say I have to have my licence on me, and the law doesnt say this, that and the other thing..............

The Gardai are right in giving you guys a hard time.

Wake up............................

It's not an attitude V-Bull, if you read my posts you'd see that I always carry my licences in the car. It's no problem for me to do this as I'm a target shooter and lots of clubs/ranges want to see your licence.

What I'm pointing to (and if you stopped jumping to unfounded conclusions you'd see this) is that those in the rough shooting fraternity are in a bit of a quandary as the licence ends up in a lot of cases to be completely unreadable after being soaked, crumpled etc. These guys can be stopped (as others have pointed out) on roads, fields or whatever and it's for them I am pointing to the law.

I'm also suggesting that if the licence were in a better form this question does and should not arise.

I am also not under any circumstances saying that you should get smart with Gardai when asked for your licence, or start quoting the law to them. The purpose of pointing to the law is to put peoples mind at rest if they are told by Gardai that they can be arrested or have their firearm confiscated. The Gardai are there to enforce the law, not to make it up as many of them feel they can.

If you are stopped on the road, you can give your name and address and tell the Garda that your cert is in your car, and offer to take them to it. That is not unreasonable and certainly better then holding up a piece of blotting paper that's been folded and unfolded so many times that it could be anything.

This is a practical solution to a practical problem that perhaps you do not or ever will encounter. It doesn't mean that others don't encounter it and perhaps you could bear that in mind the next time you're moved to get on your high horse and call people smart asses.

alan123

I think ever gunowner should be issued with a car to keep their licence in!!!

V Bull

rrpc, your points are taken and I agree, humble pie eaten, but I'm not on my high horse, dont like heights and didnt call anyone a smart ass, I called them toooo-its (twits) and they are.

Anyway, in the times that we live in now with all the shootings and murders, I agree that the authorities should move to issue a credit card type photo ID licence that must be kept on the person when they leave their home with their firearm.

Where I live there are a lot of unsavory people on the opposite side of the law and if you are stopped by an armed Garda check point without your licence and your firearm locked in the boot and its spotted, man your in big trouble trying to explain, they flock around you like bluebottles. " how do we know it's yours, is it licenced, where is your licence, why havent you got it, where are you going with it, is that a sniper rifle, there was a shooting up the road or a treat made against Joe Blogs, how do we know it's wasnt you" and your left at the side of the road for hours while they check everything out and it goes on and on.

So you see why I get angry and thats why I think that everyone should and must carry there certificate / licence. Afterall it doesnt cost a bucket to have them photocopied and laminated, does it, keep the original at home in a safe place and recopy them when the others are sodden or worn out or when you need to, whatever.

rrpc

V Bull wrote:

rrpc, your points are taken and I agree, humble pie eaten, but I'm not on my high horse, dont like heights and didnt call anyone a smart ass, I called them toooo-its (twits) and they are.

Fair enough, accepted.

Anyway, in the times that we live in now with all the shootings and murders, I agree that the authorities should move to issue a credit card type photo ID licence that must be kept on the person when they leave their home with their firearm.

Not necessarily a credit card type as this may be too expensive to produce and may be too small to have enough information on it for a roadside inspection. However a little booklet like the europass or even your passport would be a step in the right direction, especially if we move to a three year licence. Can you see the current piece of paper lasting three years?

So you see why I get angry and thats why I think that everyone should and must carry there certificate / licence. Afterall it doesnt cost a bucket to have them photocopied and laminated, does it, keep the original at home in a safe place and recopy them when the others are sodden or worn out or when you need to, whatever.

You would still wonder if a Garda would accept a photocopy (though the original could be mistaken for one ).

nice1franko

Like a lot of things, I think it all depends on the individual garda. Some would read you riot act and another might just radio to check it out.

I was out hunting with my shotgun once and got stopped by the gardai just as I was leaving the fields. They were actually called for me by some idiot but anyway, they asked to see my license and I told them it was at home. They asked me a load of questions, checked my answers out on the radio and then gave me a lift home so I could show them the license.

When we got to my house I couldn't find the feckin thing and the next thing they were bailing up the stairs after me. I found the one from the year before though and they were great alright about it. I didn't even have to go up and present the current one because they checked it out on the computer and knew it had been renewed. Since then I just have it in a little ziplock bag in a pocket of my gunslip though!

sixpointfive

"So you see why I get angry and thats why I think that everyone should and must carry there certificate / licence. Afterall it doesnt cost a bucket to have them photocopied and laminated, does it, keep the original at home in a safe place and recopy them when the others are sodden or worn out or when you need to, whatever. "



Hmm, depend on the copper alright, my FO told me its alright to photocopy them for the shooting jacket but when i was stopped at a checkpoint one evening, i showed the cop the photocopy and he had a freaker and told me it was an offence to copy it and then told me he was seizing my guns and i would never see them again, typical jumped up little prick on power trip, so i quickly rang a good buddy of mine in the SDU and put robo-garda on the phone to him and it was all sorted,good job my man was on duty, i told my local FO about this and he had a right good lough about it, needless to say i didnt see the funny side of it now or then,

thelurcher

Not having read the whole thread - here's what I do -
I scan in all my licenses including the deer hunting one and photoshop them to credit card size - play around with brightness and contrast etc until they print out legible - cert no - serial - and pulse id are all you really need to be clear.
Print - cut to size - laminate them.
Stick them in the wallet and the originals in the gun safe.
That's what I use when I buy cartridges etc. and never have a problem.

V Bull

Yeh rrpc, the Europass type booklet would by good alright, but I think for convenience the creditcard size would be better, afterall they produce the Garda Age Card for youngsters.

Where my brother lives in Canada, Manitoba Provence, they do just that, the credit card size permit has photo and name only on it but comes with a chip built in. They stick it in a creditcard type devise connected to the firearms dealers computer and it gives all the details of the holder and their firearms etc. Expensive to set up but once up and running.......

I know, I know, we're getting way off the point but food for thought and the future.................

Sparks

There's just the one problem with the chipcard idea vbull - it costs time, effort and money, and at the end of all that investment, the firearms dealer is no better off than they were before they started. The gardai might be, and the shooters might be, but the people who have to do the work to make it happen have nothing to gain...