Hyundai i30 vs Kia Cee'd vs Toyoya Auris

Henry Ford III

Road test

here

Bad news for the all new Auris.

colm_mcm

yawn.

it's all over for Toyota. quit job. start selling Kias, blah blah

zilog_jones

Sure look how well the Tiida is selling here, and that was slated by the press as a dull boring pensioner's car. People aren't gonna stop buying the Auris and Corolla any time soon...

E92

zilog_jones wrote:

Sure look how well the Tiida is selling here, and that was slated by the press as a dull boring pensioner's car. People aren't gonna stop buying the Auris and Corolla any time soon...

...unfortunately. I guess thats what happens when you have brand loyalty. I know people who buy Toyotas, without even test driving them, never mind the competition, they just buy them because of the badge.

When you are on course to be the worlds largest carmaker, and already one of the most profitable, what we say hardly matters.

I dont hate all Toyotas, I very much like the Avensis(post 03 model, the old one was a reskinned Carina, which was absolute rubbish), but the Auris/Corolla has to be the dullest new car of the year. Actually when I saw the new Corolla at first, I didnt even know it was, it was only when it was pointed out to me that they had changed it that I realised that there was a difference. The new Corolla looks exactly the same at the end as the Corolla the sold from 98-02, and the side exactly the same as the 02-06 Corolla.

What I find hillarious about the Auris/Corolla is that they delayed the launch of the thing by a year, because they told us the original was too dull after they had seen sneak previews of the current Honda Civic.

When you think that this is a company that produced the completely mad Supra, and the brilliant looking Aygo(and even the original Yaris though not the best car in the world, was revolutionary for Toyota in terms of looks when they lauched it), it really does make you wonder what Toyota are at sometimes.

colm_mcm

to be fair, the Tiida is being very heavily discounted and dealers are giving massive trade ins just to shift them. i regularly get blown out of the water on trade ins against them.

bazz26

The Tiida like the Almera before it is a favourite with the car hire companies which must account for alot of registrations too.

The Corolla is admittedly nothing special to look at but the Tiida saloon is just plain horrible looking imo.

colm_mcm

It has most things right, price is good, equipment is good, but it just looks so silly. Nissans association with Renault and poor residuals on Almera and Primera have lost them a lot of their Irish core buyers.

Henry Ford III

I think anyone who buys an Auris wants hospitalisation. Being UK built means it wont even be too reliable.

Apart from that it offers zilch.

Spit62500

Henry Ford III wrote:

I think anyone who buys an Auris wants hospitalisation. Being UK built means it wont even be too reliable.

Apart from that it offers zilch.

So are you saying that all British built cars are badly built or that Toyota UK specialise in employing incompetent workers? If its the former its going to be bit of a shock for Mini owners....

RobAMerc

colm_mcm wrote:

It has most things right, price is good, equipment is good, but it just looks so silly. Nissans association with Renault and poor residuals on Almera and Primera have lost them a lot of their Irish core buyers.

I kind of see your point here but do you think most Irish drivers no that Renault have such a large stake in Nissan ?

Would Nissan still be around only for them, and lastly do you not think that Renault has already had a good effect on Nissan ? I mean the 350z - Note - Quashqai and Tiida are infinitely better products than the Almera and Primera before them (even if the tiidas styling is a bit naff).

Carlos Goshen might be partly the reason behind their revival and some of the models they've started producing but do you not think if Toyota had got hold of them they'd have installed some lad whos only consideration was to build lots of cars rather than one interesting one ?

Henry Ford III

Spit62500 wrote:

So are you saying that all British built cars are badly built or that Toyota UK specialise in employing incompetent workers? If its the former its going to be bit of a shock for Mini owners....

Neither.

What I'm suggesting is that Toyotas heretofore excellent reputation for reliability may be under pressure.

The truly sad thing is that people will carry on buying these deeply average and utterly bland cars regardless.

maidhc

Henry Ford III wrote:

Neither.

What I'm suggesting is that Toyotas heretofore excellent reputation for reliability may be under pressure.

The truly sad thing is that people will carry on buying these deeply average and utterly bland cars regardless.

I think that is a fair point. I have often documented the problems with our (british built) Toyota Avensis. Some of these (e.g. rust) can only be arrtibuted to poor workmanship and QC.

Balfa

Henry Ford III wrote:

What I'm suggesting is that Toyotas heretofore excellent reputation for reliability may be under pressure.

Do you really think that UK manufacturing is going to put a bad name on Toyota quality when all these countries can have a say in it? Toyotas have been made all over the world for years and years, and the Corolla still has top notch reliability.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Corolla wrote:

Corollas are currently manufactured in Japan, the United States (Fremont, California), the United Kingdom (Derbyshire), Canada (Cambridge, Ontario), Malaysia, China (Tianjin), Taiwan, Pakistan, South Africa, Brazil, Turkey, Philippines, Thailand, Venezuela, and India.

Henry Ford III

Balfa wrote:

Do you really think that UK manufacturing is going to put a bad name on Toyota quality....

It certainly won't enhance it

maidhc

Balfa wrote:

Do you really think that UK manufacturing is going to put a bad name on Toyota quality when all these countries can have a say in it? Toyotas have been made all over the world for years and years, and the Corolla still has top notch reliability.

I think the view of most people is that while toyotas are very good, they are no where near being as far ahead of the likes of Ford, GM, BMW or the others that they once were.

Indeed the Corolla saloon is made in Turkey... prompting my local mechanic to say "did you every ****ing hear of anything good come from Turkey".

colm_mcm

The Corolla Verso is generally regarded as being a very well built car "despite" being built in Turkey!

Henry Ford III

Luna or Strata?

zilog_jones

Balfa wrote:

Do you really think that UK manufacturing is going to put a bad name on Toyota quality when all these countries can have a say in it? Toyotas have been made all over the world for years and years, and the Corolla still has top notch reliability.

It's only in the last 10-15 years or so that we've been getting non-Japanese Toyotas. The first was the UK-built Carina E (not sure if it was all of them or if they started in '92) which supposedly did have quality issues (though saying that there's still loads still going as taxis), and then the 5dr Corolla hatchback (the fugly one) in '97. Our Camrys became US-built at some stage too.

colm_mcm

Henry Ford III wrote:

Luna or Strata?

Henry Ford III

Still slagging apart it's shocking to see the all new Auris beaten by a Hyundai and a Kia in an impartial road test.

BrianD3

I had a close look at the Kia a few months back and compared it to most of its class rivals. I'd say it's ahead of all of them including the Auris, Golf and Focus. It has very few weaknesses.

The Hyundai looks worse than the Kia but is supposed to be even better in some areas.

The Kia has just scored 5 stars in EuroNCAP too. Korean cars have tended to do poorly in crash tests so that's another change.

colm_mcm

Henry Ford III wrote:

Still slagging apart it's shocking to see the all new Auris beaten by a Hyundai and a Kia in an impartial road test.

I'd say you're devastated!

Henry Ford III

I'm somewhat shocked, as I said above.

colm_mcm

If it's any consolation, I read that the Focus is better than both the Cee'd and the I-30, think it was Auto Express as well. who if I remember correctly said the Focus was dated when they revealed a drawing of what the facelifted model MIGHT look like! (which turned out to be way off!)

E92

Well Auto Express is the motoring equivalent of the Oirish Sun, so this is hardly a surprise.

McSandwich

Most of the British reviews (with the exception of Honest John and one or two others) are very critical of the Auris, leaving me with the impression that they just don't like the car or even want to test it.

I'm driving one, the 1.4 d4d mmt model, for nearly 2 months. I quite like the design and don't find it 'boxy' or 'bloated'. The 6 speaker audio system sounds great. I've had no issues with the controls feeling 'cheap', though the ipod integration (extra) could be better. I find the interior finish, which is mostly matt black, to be of good quality and do not consider it to be overly 'shiny' (the brits are obsessed with that one!).

As for ride and handling well I didn't buy the car for it's rally driving qualities - it's a 1.4 diesel ffs!!! Saying that, I found it lively and entertaining to drive on some of Kerry's most challenging mountain roads where the paddle gear shift came into its own. No problems on motorway drives either, once the engine wore in a bit (it was a bit sluggish for the first 500Km when accelerating above 100kph).

To be fair, the Autoexpress review commented positively on engine performance. if I was to believe some other 'reviews' , I'd be quicker getting a tow from a tractor rather than driving the thing on its own power... I'm pretty sure many so called 'reviewers' make assumptions based on paper performance figures rather than driving experience. My last car was a 1.6 petrol, with 20 bhp more, and it never felt as lively or willing as the 1.4 diesel.

So far I've put up 2500Km and I'm just 1/4 way through my 3rd fill of diesel. Fuel consumption is noticeably dropping as the engine wears in so.

The semi automatic MMT gearbox (my model) took a bit of getting used to and is not as refined as a full auto box. On the plus side it's much lighter on fuel (auto mode is optimised for this) and allows manual mode gear change via paddles or gear stick.

Overall, I find the Auris to be a great car, much better than the reviews would have you believe. I haven't tested the Hyundai or Kia. Design wise, they don't look a whole lot different to the Auris, yet they both score much higher in terms of styling/ image (???)

Henry Ford III

90bhp from a 1.4d is a very respectable output.

I'm delighted you like your car, and would have been very surprised had you said otherwise.

There's not much wrong with the Auris, other than it being dull and bland and relatively uninteresting to drive.

The thing is quite a few competing cars can do everything an Auris can, only quite a bit better.

McSandwich

Henry Ford III wrote:

There's not much wrong with the Auris, other than it being dull and bland and relatively uninteresting to drive.

The thing is quite a few competing cars can do everything an Auris can, only quite a bit better.

It's a matter of opinion when it comes down to it. I agree that the Auris is less than inspiring to look at, but it's not nearly as dull as some reviewers would have you believe.. The problem is that reviewers are so biased as to be unhelpful when it comes to deciding on a car. They rarely review a new car on it's own merits, instead forming an opinion based solely on personal preference or the perceived 'coolness' of a brand. Most of the British reviewers would be better suited to test driving this seasons hand bags.

For example, most reviewers love the VW Golf to the point of not mentioning some of it's faults . I test drove a 1.6 Golf which I found to be underpowered and awkward to drive due to lack of leg room (I had someone in the back..). Handling was nothing special and it's incredibly dull looks wise (more so that he Auris imo). It's also way overpriced and the base model isn't far off an '80s spec in terms of extras!

Henry Ford III

Not getting into this. No real point nor benefit.

Res ispa loquitur however.

yellow012

McSandwich wrote:

For example, most reviewers love the VW Golf to the point of not mentioning some of it's faults . I test drove a 1.6 Golf which I found to be underpowered and awkward to drive due to lack of leg room (I had someone in the back..). Handling was nothing special and it's incredibly dull looks wise (more so that he Auris imo). It's also way overpriced and the base model isn't far off an '80s spec in terms of extras!

You accuse the english press of biased reporting, but you've just thrown out a statement about the Golfs spec level thats based on what they used to be like in the past. The base Golf comes with air conditioning, loads of airbags, cd/mp3 player, electric windows, central locking thats hardly '80s car spec level?
What does the base model Auris come with that makes it so much better than the Golf?

McSandwich

yellow012 wrote:

You accuse the english press of biased reporting, but you've just thrown out a statement about the Golfs spec level thats based on what they used to be like in the past. The base Golf comes with air conditioning, loads of airbags, cd/mp3 player, electric windows, central locking thats hardly '80s car spec level?
What does the base model Auris come with that makes it so much better than the Golf?

'Base model' was probably the wrong term to use, I drove the standard 1.6 (auto) comfortline without any extras. At the time, last February, this model did not come with air-con or alloy wheels which the comparable Auris did for less money. If I remember correctly it also had a bog standard stereo. None of the VW dealers seemed interested in a trade and offered laughable trade in for my old car compared to Skoda and Toyota. I'm not anti VW or Golf, by the way, otherwise I wouldn't have considered buying one , but based on reviews I was expecting a lot more.. I believe the Golf spec has been upgraded since then.

My "'80s" comment was of course an exaggeration, in the vein of many auto reviewers.

RobAMerc

I don't see why anyone is shocked by this.

imo - Toyota scale the heights of mediocrity with their cars in every way bar reliability, which here in Ireland seems to be the most important thing cars are judged on so, they sell well here.

The rest of Europe doesn't seem to really rate them at all.

Henry Ford III

RobAMerc wrote:

I don't see why anyone is shocked by this.

imo - Toyota scale the heights of mediocrity with their cars in every way bar reliability, which here in Ireland seems to be the most important thing cars are judged on so, they sell well here.

The rest of Europe doesn't seem to really rate them at all.

Quoted for accuracy and truth. Top post and unarguably correct.

yellow012

McSandwich wrote:

'Base model' was probably the wrong term to use, I drove the standard 1.6 (auto) comfortline without any extras. At the time, last February, this model did not come with air-con or alloy wheels which the comparable Auris did for less money. If I remember correctly it also had a bog standard stereo. None of the VW dealers seemed interested in a trade and offered laughable trade in for my old car compared to Skoda and Toyota. I'm not anti VW or Golf, by the way, otherwise I wouldn't have considered buying one , but based on reviews I was expecting a lot more.. I believe the Golf spec has been upgraded since then.

My "'80s" comment was of course an exaggeration, in the vein of many auto reviewers.

Sorry but either your dealer was trying to flog you a 06 model or you've got selective memory loss. All 07 model Golfs come with air conditioning and the Comfortline model come with have come with 15" alloy wheels. I know because I nearly ordered one for my wife last December and it had this 07 spec. Didn't go for it the end because there was too long of a delay before delivery and we needed a car straightaway so went for a Octavia instead.
As regards VW dealers some are good, some are bad just like every other dealer network. You just have to take Mary Harneys advice and shop around.

scargill

Henry Ford III wrote:

Toyota scale the heights of mediocrity with their cars in every way bar reliability, which here in Ireland seems to be the most important thing cars are judged on so, they sell well here.

It's all about perception (as it always is with cars!).

My wife has always had Corolla hatchbacks. She bought a new Auris in February (after a 5 minute test drive). Wouldn't even consider Golf or Focus at all. Her dad drives a Corolla, as do her sisters. Her dad would have a fit if she came home in a Hyundai or Kia (or Ford for that matter, because he had a Ford 25 years ago that gave him loads of grief!)

As she often reminds me, I usually end up borrowing her boring Corolla/Auris whenever my Golf/Audi breaks down !!

McSandwich

yellow012 wrote:

As regards VW dealers some are good, some are bad just like every other dealer network. You just have to take Mary Harneys advice and shop around.

That's exactly what I did! I went to 2 VW dealers and found both to be very unhelpful. I remember telling them that I was also considering a Skoda which they found amusing for some reason. Overall I got the impression that they didn't want my business...

I was close to buying an Octavia but by chance I dropped into a Toyota dealer who offered me significantly more trade in so I went for the Auris. To be honest I hadn't considered it as an option before this, after what I'd read in reviews, but it turned out to be a lot better than I expected. That taught me not to believe everything I read in (car) reviews, you can add that to Mary Harney's advice

Balfa

Henry Ford III wrote:

Still slagging apart it's shocking to see the all new Auris beaten by a Hyundai and a Kia in an impartial road test.

It shouldn't be shocking. Hyundai Group have been making huge strides over the past decade. I drive an '02 Accent and, although my standards aren't very high, it's solid and well built and a good bit o' fun.

Only problem so far has been a dead auto box which was replaced under their unbeatable warranty.

E92

yellow012 wrote:

You accuse the english press of biased reporting, but you've just thrown out a statement about the Golfs spec level thats based on what they used to be like in the past. The base Golf comes with air conditioning, loads of airbags, cd/mp3 player, electric windows, central locking thats hardly '80s car spec level?
What does the base model Auris come with that makes it so much better than the Golf?

Exactly. The Auris is I think I'm rigt in saying the most basic car in its class. In every other car, once you move off the bottom of the range model, aircon comes as standard, in the Auris you have to go for the top of the range model to get it.

I must say VW have improved the spec levels in their cars recently beyond all recognition, but they're still a little basic.

However, the Golf has both aircon and ESP as standard on all models, the Auris has neither on the basic and mid model, and ESP is not a feature at all on the range, even though the Corolla Sol hatch had it.

The Corolla that preceeded the Auris has the most miserable spec lists ever, I remember Toyota Ireland being hounded by the Irish press for it.(when everyone else including VW had fitted their cars with a CD player, remote locking and side airbags(including Toyota UK at the time), Toyota here decided that a tape player, old fashioned central locking and a mere 2 airbags would be sufficient)

Henry Ford III

E92 wrote:

...However, the Golf has both aircon and ESP as standard on all models, the Auris has neither on the basic and mid model, and ESP is not a feature at all on the range, even though the Corolla Sol hatch had it....

Slightly off topic but the Corolla Sol didn't need ESP. It wasn't powerful enough.

My Focus ST from last year didn't have traction control nor any electronic stabilty aids either, and due to the overall quality of the chassis, really didn't need them either. It would spin the driven wheels readily in the wet, but you just learned to go gently in the lower gears and shortshift.

bazz26

Why is that this forum lately has to spiral into "this car is better than that car" syndrome or the usual outpouring of general sweeping statements?

If you don't like Toyota or any other brand for that matter, then don't drive one, simple as that. Move on and drive with what you like, let others do the same.

Why cann't we all just get along?

yellow012

McSandwich wrote:

That's exactly what I did! I went to 2 VW dealers and found both to be very unhelpful. I remember telling them that I was also considering a Skoda which they found amusing for some reason. Overall I got the impression that they didn't want my business...

I was close to buying an Octavia but by chance I dropped into a Toyota dealer who offered me significantly more trade in so I went for the Auris. To be honest I hadn't considered it as an option before this, after what I'd read in reviews, but it turned out to be a lot better than I expected. That taught me not to believe everything I read in (car) reviews, you can add that to Mary Harney's advice

Fair enuff;)

Ceb

wouldnt be a fan of any modern toyota barring the hilux used on the top gear polar special but as we all know they are seriously well built and more reliable than most other cars on the market

Zonda999

If you truly love cars den d only toyota you wud ever have is a land cruiser, hilux or 1 of the vans(and they'd prob be for work). Most petrolheads drive europeam cars. On the subject of the thread, the kia is d one to get...

colm_mcm

no "petrolhead" would buy a 1.4 family hatch to begin with

jonnygee

Regardless of which model is the "best" the i30 1.6 90 bhp diesel has to be an absolute bargain at just under 22k euros. I have driven it, this engine is excellent. The car overall may not beat my 1.6 petrol zetec focus but it not far behind it. Price a diesel focus or golf, they are a ripoff in my opinion. The diesel hyundai is a better drive than the 1.4 petrol and you dont need the 115bhp model that is fitted to the kia or the more expensive i30s. Dont worry about depreciation they will be queing up to buy these in 3 years time. I checked out the auris as well, I am sure it will be reliable but it does not appeal to me, I dont like that centre thingy, the door handles are too far back and the top of the dash seems to be made of a very lightweight material, is it cardboard? also I cant stand this new breed of cars where you have no idea where the front of the car is because you can see nothing of it from the drivers seat, the salesman,s "youll soon get used to it" banter does nothing for me , I dont want to get used to it, I want to see it.

octyvrs

this kit looks nice on the i30...
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=684200

Henry Ford III

KIAs and to a slightly lesser extent Hyundais will be worth buttons in a couple of years. They will be sale proof privately and dealers will insult you with derisory trade in values.

BrianD3

Henry Ford III wrote: »

KIAs and to a slightly lesser extent Hyundais will be worth buttons in a couple of years. They will be sale proof privately and dealers will insult you with derisory trade in values.

I think it's too early to say. If what you say does turn out to be true it will prove just how much of a moron the average Irish buyer is.

2 year old Kia cee'd - 5 years of manufacturer warranty left and transferable to the new owner. Decent car too.

2 year old VW golf - 0 years of manufacturer warranty left and people will undoubtedly be queueing up to buy them.

Henry Ford III

I don't. Whilst it's true to say that these "division 2" manufacturers are improving their products, they are not even close to the class leaders yet.

Some cars need to be cheap to sell.

BrianD3

Henry Ford III wrote: »

these "division 2" manufacturers are improving their products, they are not even close to the class leaders yet.

In what way are they not even close.

I have had a good look/drive of the Ceed. Even if it had a more normal warranty I believe it'd still be one of the top cars in its class.

If the average car buyer is too blind to see this and instead looks for cars based on the badge, perceived quality or car magazine hype then there's not a whole lot that Kia can do about it.

Henry Ford III

I've driven both and although admittedly biased the Focus is simply light years ahead in driver appeal, and chassis dynamics.

If you want to buy a Kia/Renault go right ahead. It'll cost you big time ultimately though.