Are children more likely to experience Paranormal?

ladybirdirl

Picking up on something in a recent thread around children & poltergeists, I got to thinking....


Would it be more prevalent/usual for children to have paranormal experiences than it owuld be for adults

My own view would be yes it would

a) because young children don't have a frame of reference for thinking paranormal beliefs are odd/weird they are more likely to be 'open' to having an experience and embracing it rather than ignoring it &

b) I would have thought if a ghost/spirit/whatever wanted to influence someone I would have thought it would be easier to deal with a little one &

c) young children (before they figure out how to manipulate us adults) generally don't lie about what they experience - they just say what they say/feel/see

Any thoughts/ experiences /ideas anyone?

Ladybird

stormkeeper

I'd be inclined to agree; children aren't tainted by "adult experiences", and I do believe that their innocence towards the world (when you consider all the problems us grown ups have, they haven't to worry about that for many years yet!) allows them to be more open-minded towards the paranormal on the whole. They especially haven't heard the "it's not real!" or "there's nothing there!" lines as much as we had, so they find it easier to believe.

ladybirdirl

Also I can't spell - I'm very tired after hard day's work (all togehter awww:rolleyes: )

Please will one of the mods change the title to read children...........thanks

LB

Riamfada

Oh not ... its the Childred!! RUN!

Seriously, has any parapsychologist actually done an experiment on kids to see if they are more suseptible? Would that class as child cruelty?

stevenmu

I haven't heard of any experiments having been done related to children in particular. I don't think it would be classed as child cruelty, there are ethical guidleines available for scientific research involving children, but there are many tests that could be carried out which should be fine. There might be a perception though that because children are more likely to be easily led, that any research involving them would be suspect.


Anecdotally, children certainly do seem to experience paranormal events more. There was a poster here before (and I think she still haunts these parts on occasion) who worked with special needs children and was quite experienced in the paranormal, and she certainly seemed to feel that they did.

Certainly, like you said, there is a common perception among many paranormal researchers/groups that children are certainly more open to paranormal experiences. There are many suggested reasons for this.

Children are more open and more willing to believe certain things than adults, they are also less likely to fear being ridiculed, or at least less aware of the potential for it, like you said they have don't have the same frame of reference for what is paranormal and what is not.

There's also a line of thought that the spirit within a child has been in the physical world for less time and therefore the childs consciouscness (composed of both physical and spirit) is less bound by the physical. As we grow older our physical mind takes over more and more and we 'use' our spirit less and less.

Another line of thinking is that puberty can bring on changes and can increase certain senses and abilities (this often ties in with theories about poltergeists).

Another concept, which is a big topic in it's own right is that of indigo children and crystal children. I've some good links about these but can't seem to find them at the moment, but for now, two that summarise briefly are

http://www.thecrystalchildren.com/crystal.html (by Doreen Virtue)
http://www.crystalinks.com/childrensic.html (crystalinks)


edit: Damn! Apparantly I can't spell either, 'chilren' indeed

Zillah

Statistically children are massively more likely to be involved in seemingly paranormal events.

Although the more cynical amongst us might point out that children are also far more likely to indulge in fantasy and misunderstand what is going on around them.

JC 2K3

When I was like 6 my cousin told me there were invisible aliens in the back garden and that I had to fight them.

The next 20 mins were spent punching and kicking thin air.....

Point being, kids believe anything and strongly so. You could tell them ghosts existed and the next day they'd probably come back to you and tell you they had an encounter with one. Doesn't mean they actually encountered one.

meanmachine3

i would say that 99% of all mediums/pyschics had their first paranormal experience as kids so therefore the answer to ladybirds question is yes.

ladybirdirl

Zillah wrote:

Statistically children are massively more likely to be involved in seemingly paranormal events.

Although the more cynical amongst us might point out that children are also far more likely to indulge in fantasy and misunderstand what is going on around them.

True Zillah, but that can't answer every case can it? Also perhaps the kids are in fact understanding properly & it's adults whose sensibilities are polluted by society norms,religion or whatever. I don't know that I buy into the full 'indigo children' phenomenon but I do think there's something to it.

Dave!

Yeah, children have very active imaginations and often claim to see/hear all sorts of fanciful things.

ladybirdirl

DaveMcG wrote:

Yeah, children have very active imaginations and often claim to see/hear all sorts of fanciful things.

May be true Dave, but I don't think it's appropiate to just dismiss anyone's experiences, be they adult or child

Ladybird

Dave!

Nor do I, but I think that children's experiences should be taken with a pinch of salt on account of their wild imaginations.

ladybirdirl

Not to be dis-respectful but that doesn't make sense Dave, you say you don't dismiss it but you take it with a pinch of salt...is that not thre same thing??

LB

Dave!

Not really... I mean, if your child came into your room in the middle of the night and said that there's someone under their bed, you would probably (I'm assuming) think "ahh isn't that cute", and then show them that there isn't anybody there. If your 19 year old son did the same, then you'd likely lock your door and call the Gardaí. Children and adults are different.

kshiel

DaveMcG wrote:

Not really... I mean, if your child came into your room in the middle of the night and said that there's someone under their bed, you would probably (I'm assuming) think "ahh isn't that cute", and then show them that there isn't anybody there. If your 19 year old son did the same, then you'd likely lock your door and call the Gardaí. Children and adults are different.

Thats the point I feel, when your child brings up such conversations most adults tend to say "its ok honey its only ..............." and yes I would have to agree with the whole imagination bit, its really amazing to watch or see a child at play or even conversation with them for a while and see the logic they come up with.

Although I do think they can be more prone to a paranormal experience through their innocence, been that they intend to speak and act to exactly what they are seening, and I think it would be unfair to say that all experience could be put down to just imagination. Its us as adults that tend to take the joy out of such experiences as they grow up and we place our views and take on things on them. Such is life.

Ziycon

I believe that children are more likely to have an paranormal experience as they havent been conditioned to believe what society sees as normal beliefs. When your growing up your told ghosts don't exit so you never think twice about it till you get older. You believe what your parents say because there your parents, but we are conditioned from a very young age to fit into society with what we are told to believe and not to believe and by what we see on the news or tv programmes and advertisements, its all around you when growing, subliminal conditioning.
As you get older you get conditioned to ignore paranormal things as you've been told they "don't exist" so your less likely to have a paranormal experience the older you get.
So in conclusion i do believe children are more open to paranormal experiences, for example think about the night terrors or imaginary friends you had as a child.

hiorta

It does seem that some children can distinguish what is shadowy to adults.
There is a natural bond of love between children and their grandparents, so when a child informs Mum or Dad that they were speaking to (deceased) Grandpa last night, then this could be one of two things - truth or imagination.

But when a child tells of speaking with a deceased Grandparent whom they had never met or known, but could point them out from photographs, then this leaves 'truth' as the likely option, especially if the topics were immediately relevant.

The imagination faculty seems to be the function of the mind that is closely engaged in mediumistic work, Spirit folk sort of 'back-projecting' some visual info upon it.

As a natural ability, the imagination is to be encouraged in the young - some types of educational input can often damage it, distorting it with imagery from unproven doctrines.

ladybirdirl

DaveMcG wrote:

Not really... I mean, if your child came into your room in the middle of the night and said that there's someone under their bed, you would probably (I'm assuming) think "ahh isn't that cute", and then show them that there isn't anybody there. If your 19 year old son did the same, then you'd likely lock your door and call the Gardaí. Children and adults are different.

Hmmmm.............really don't agree. Yes children & adults are different. I would not think it appropiate to say 'ah it's cute' if my child (of any age) decided there was someone in the room, then again I'm not a mom. I do think your reference is lacking in compassion to many children/pre-teens/young adults who would believe they have had experiences, which I find surprising given ( I think) you're an enthusist

LB

Dave!

ladybirdirl wrote:

Hmmmm.............really don't agree. Yes children & adults are different. I would not think it appropiate to say 'ah it's cute' if my child (of any age) decided there was someone in the room, then again I'm not a mom. I do think your reference is lacking in compassion to many children/pre-teens/young adults who would believe they have had experiences, which I find surprising given ( I think) you're an enthusist

LB

You mean you've never, when you were a child, ran crying into your parents' room cos you thought there was someone under your bed, or the boogie man was in your closet? I know when I was young -- presumably traumatised after seeing a scary cartoon -- I used to think that there was a giant crocodile under my bed, and I was afraid to look under. I used to try my hardest not to accidentally let my hand fall down the side of the bed, in case the crocodile takes it!

Fact is kids have active imaginations and often claim to have seen ridiculous things. Adults dismiss most of these claims as absurd because they usually are. But I'm sure the odd time a kid will say something that will click with a paranormal enthusiast adult and they'll make a big deal out of it.

stormkeeper

I remember as a child that I had an experience about a monster being under my bed, and the funny thing is that it had sound, and these days none of my dreams have sound in them, so I've been wondering if that were real, or not... and that's among other experiences I've had as a child, such as an OBE, and I also knew what to look for in the library, and I was only 10 as well, and I don't think anyone told me what an OBE is either!

ladybirdirl

DaveMcG wrote:

You mean you've never, when you were a child, ran crying into your parents' room cos you thought there was someone under your bed, or the boogie man was in your closet? I know when I was young -- presumably traumatised after seeing a scary cartoon -- I used to think that there was a giant crocodile under my bed, and I was afraid to look under. I used to try my hardest not to accidentally let my hand fall down the side of the bed, in case the crocodile takes it!

Fact is kids have active imaginations and often claim to have seen ridiculous things. Adults dismiss most of these claims as absurd because they usually are. But I'm sure the odd time a kid will say something that will click with a paranormal enthusiast adult and they'll make a big deal out of it.

Ok, I think you're missing my point.

a) no I never thought there was something under the bed...if there ever had been, I would have been one of those kids who would have gone and investigated it, not ran screaming...and being 1 of 7 if I thought there was something there, I'd have wanted to keep it for myself anyway:)

b) no dispute that kids have active imaginations.. in fact that almost proves my point. I believe that in many (not all I'm sure) cases it could be that what we as adults conditioned by religion/societal norms/fear/whatever call an 'over active ' imagination could in fact be a latent paranormal expertise and in fact might (as stormkeeper attests to) be a true experience.

c) my original point was 'is it more prevalent' for children and tbh I'm amazed that someone such as yourself with an interest in paranormal would dismiss a whole group of people with a sweeping generalisation such as that. Of course it's likely that some children are just afraid of being away from their parents/on their own but there may also be a core whose talent is emerging and that's what I am trying to get at.

Ladybird

Dave!

ladybirdirl wrote:

Ok, I think you're missing my point.

a) no I never thought there was something under the bed...if there ever had been, I would have been one of those kids who would have gone and investigated it, not ran screaming...and being 1 of 7 if I thought there was something there, I'd have wanted to keep it for myself anyway:)

Well each to their own! I suspect that most kids would get scared and tell an adult, and the adult would go in and confirm that there is nowt under the bed except a pair of smelly socks!

ladybirdirl wrote:

b) no dispute that kids have active imaginations.. in fact that almost proves my point. I believe that in many (not all I'm sure) cases it could be that what we as adults conditioned by religion/societal norms/fear/whatever call an 'over active ' imagination could in fact be a latent paranormal expertise and in fact might (as stormkeeper attests to) be a true experience.

It could, but there's no reason to assume that it is without evidence!

Kids have more "paranormal" experiences, and kids also have more active imaginations than adults. Ergo, kids have latent paranormal expertise...??? What?!

You don't think it's more likely that their imagination would be related to their paranormal experiences, than that they have more expertise than adults?

ladybirdirl wrote:

c) my original point was 'is it more prevalent' for children and tbh I'm amazed that someone such as yourself with an interest in paranormal would dismiss a whole group of people with a sweeping generalisation such as that. Of course it's likely that some children are just afraid of being away from their parents/on their own but there may also be a core whose talent is emerging and that's what I am trying to get at.

Well Zillah pointed out earlier that it's statistically more common for kids to have paranormal experiences, and I have no reason to doubt that. But it's more pertinent to understand WHY they have more experiences than adults, than to verify that that is indeed the case. I would be more inclined to put it down to imagination than expertise.

What reason/evidence have you got that a "core" group of children have emerging talents, whereas you say most don't? I mean, where are you getting that from?

BTW, I'm afraid I don't have much of an interest in the paranormal! My cynical comments in the Paranormal and Spirituality forum will probably confirm this

stormkeeper

DaveMcG wrote:

What reason/evidence have you got that a "core" group of children have emerging talents, whereas you say most don't? I mean, where are you getting that from?

I'm vaguely reminded of something I read at some point regarding "Indigo Children", but I can't elaborate further at present, but there's the "core group of children with emerging talents" right there.

Dave!

I don't know anything about Indigo Children, but a quick look at wikipedia suggests that there's some doubt in your claim...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigo_children#Scientific_and_critical_interpretations

stormkeeper

I did say it was vague... besides, Wikipedia isn't the only source of information out there.

ladybirdirl

DaveMcG wrote:

Kids have more "paranormal" experiences, and kids also have more active imaginations than adults. Ergo, kids have latent paranormal expertise...??? What?!

Again with all due respect, that's not what I said.


Also what evidence have you got there isn't such a group of children

stevenmu

We can't ignore the fact that children have active imiginations, but this is the paranormal forum and the topic as I understand it is about genuine paranormal experiences and whether children are more likely to experience them or not, so can people please stick to this topic.

Dave!

ladybirdirl wrote:

Again with all due respect, that's not what I said.


Also what evidence have you got there isn't such a group of children

The burden of proof is on you, not me! Watch this: there is a giant invisible spaghetti monster in the sky -- what evidence have you got that there isn't?

stevenmu wrote:

We can't ignore the fact that children have active imiginations, but this is the paranormal forum and the topic as I understand it is about genuine paranormal experiences and whether children are more likely to experience them or not, so can people please stick to this topic.

Dunno if that's directed at me or not, but if it is -- I am sticking to the topic! The OP suggested that children experience paranormal phenomena more than adults, and I'm just saying that what might appear to be paranormal is often merely an over-active imagination. I don't think that's unreasonable.

stormkeeper

DaveMcG wrote:

The burden of proof is on you, not me! Watch this: there is a giant invisible spaghetti monster in the sky -- what evidence have you got that there isn't?

Actually, the burden of proof is on both sides. You cannot claim something doesn't exist without proof, and then turns around and says that someone has to prove something does exist... that's an unfair argument.

Dunno if that's directed at me or not, but if it is -- I am sticking to the topic! The OP suggested that children experience paranormal phenomena more than adults, and I'm just saying that what might appear to be paranormal is often merely an over-active imagination. I don't think that's unreasonable.

It can't always be attributed to an over-active imagination though. there is not one simple and single answer for something... the world isn't black or white but varying shades of gray. There's got to be more there than just an "over-active imagination". I mean, where does all this originate from? I find it astounding that adults are like this to children to be honest. It's this sort of attitude which merely makes it propogate even further... so eventually, the child doesn't believe in stuff that happens to them, that could have a genuine paranormal explanation.

Dave!

stormkeeper wrote:

Actually, the burden of proof is on both sides. You cannot claim something doesn't exist without proof, and then turns around and says that someone has to prove something does exist... that's an unfair argument.

Don't be silly... The burden is always on the person making the claim. Otherwise you could claim anything and people would be expected to believe you! There's a giant invisible spaghetti monster in the sky... disprove it... You can't! It's impossible to disprove something like that.

The burden is always on the claimant -- ask any scientist in the world.

stormkeeper wrote:

It can't always be attributed to an over-active imagination though. there is not one simple and single answer for something... the world isn't black or white but varying shades of gray. There's got to be more there than just an "over-active imagination". I mean, where does all this originate from?

Prior experiences? Cartoons? Stories? Interaction?

stormkeeper wrote:

I find it astounding that adults are like this to children to be honest. It's this sort of attitude which merely makes it propogate even further... so eventually, the child doesn't believe in stuff that happens to them, that could have a genuine paranormal explanation.

Well if paranormal claims had any solid evidence behind them, then I imagine people would take them infinitely more serious, and kids wouldn't be dismissed like that.

stevenmu

DaveMcG wrote:

Dunno if that's directed at me or not, but if it is -- I am sticking to the topic! The OP suggested that children experience paranormal phenomena more than adults, and I'm just saying that what might appear to be paranormal is often merely an over-active imagination. I don't think that's unreasonable.

It's not directed at anyone, just at the direction the thread is going. It is very reasonable to point out that children do have active imaginations and many paranormal experiences may be down to that. But that point has been made at this stage. This is the paranormal forum and there is no burden on anyone here to prove that paranormal events occur (it's a little different if someone makes a specific claim like being able to predict lotto numbers). The topic is making the assumption that genuine paranormal events do occur, are they more likely to occur to children. Now that we've all agreed that children do have active imaginations I think we should stick to the topic.

6th

Ok to answer the question: Are children more likely to experience Paranormal? I'd have to say no.

Its a simple one to answer because to say that they are, is to say more children experience the paranormal than adults and this isnt the case ... at least it doesnt look that way to me.

What I would say is that children are more likely to tell someone if they do because alot of "grownups" fear ridicule.

Now I am speaking as someone with 3 year old and I can tell you no matter how much you think they havent been influenced by TV and stories ... they have! Childrens Tv is filled with stories of ghosts, witches etc ... I know .... I watch it too.

Stories of babies pointing an an empty space in the room or saying something about a passed loved one aren't rare by any means but statistically I would imagine that adults are more likely to have an experience.

That said, as we get older our sight and other senses deteriorate so maybe that might factor in to it?

6th

stormkeeper wrote:

They especially haven't heard the "it's not real!" or "there's nothing there!" lines as much as we had, so they find it easier to believe.

As I said above these type of comments only afffect people talking about experieces, not having them. Adults dont stop having experiences they just stop talking about it.

Stoner

When i was a Kid I saw/imagined a bulls head in the wrinkles on the covers in my brothers bed, I saw the two old guys from the Muppet's under my bed, and I heard the incredible hulk roaring.

I don't imagine stuff like that anymore thank God, back then it was all in my head, having said that I don't lie in bed staring at things, examining them like I did when in was a kid.

As a kid you have seen less then an adult as you have been around for less time, the brain can try to find an answer drawing on experience and past memories, if you have less memories and fewer visuals in your memory your brain could make an error in interpreting that you are focusing on.

It could be that as well as having active imaginations that kids look at what is around them more, their visual filters are still developing, dropping of some visual observation skills that they don't need anymore, and developing others (like the way young children can tell the difference between primates but loose this ability as it is not needed)

So kids look around more, take more in , miss less of what is around them and have different levels of visual ability and interpretation when compared to adults.

It is very possible that if paranormal activity is around that children may be more likely to see it.

6th

My daughter says there are "ghosties, witches and spookies" in her room now and then ... and there aren't. She also says there are dinosaurs too. I dont tell her that there are not but I play along with her to build her imagination, its healthy.

Dave!

Those damn spookies!

Talliesin

ladybirdirl wrote:

Picking up on something in a recent thread around children & poltergeists, I got to thinking....

Poltergeists are more often associated with adolescents than young children, it should be noted.

ladybirdirl wrote:

Would it be more prevalent/usual for children to have paranormal experiences than it owuld be for adults

I think some forms probably are, but others aren't. Really, I think it's too hard to say as it requires carefully classifying and comparing various experiences that can't be well classified or compared.

stevenmu wrote:

Another concept, which is a big topic in it's own right is that of indigo children and crystal children.

Any who have seen me post on such topics will know that I'm generally rather disdainful of New Age ideas or any other apocalyptic viewpoint.

The Indigo children and it's variants makes me respond with more than the mere disdain I have for the wider New Age movement. The most-quoted description of such children reminds me of the description of the young Caligua in Robert Graves' I Claudius and I can't help but consider that an indication of the effects of overly encouraging such traits.

Grouping a particular bunch of children together and telling them that they are a special élite group who represent a move forwards in evolution is nothing new either. I know of one case where someone threatened to disinherit his grandchild for involving her children in it - he'd seen enough of that sort of thing when he was in the Hitler Youth to stomach any more of it. Of course, just like the Hitler Youth, it's leadership has no understanding of what evolution actually means - if you can see a roadmap, it ain't evolution.

Of course while the worse descriptions of Claudius' youth is the best example of such traits that I can find, at its widest the description matches pretty much almost every child - though pity the poor New Age parent who finds themselves saddled with a child who persists in being considerate, modest, respectful, patient and pleasant despite their best efforts!

It's not even consistent within its own system, moving from one particular psychic's view of particular auras (just what colour corresponds to what is always at least influenced by personal symbolism and synesthesia) through a completely unconnected (though apparently very profitable financially) medium's claims at channelling and on to contain the general cultural landgrab that is the basis of New Ageism generally.

The whole Indigo thing seems not just like folly, but dangerous folly.

CodeMonkey

ladybirdirl wrote:

b) no dispute that kids have active imaginations.. in fact that almost proves my point. I believe that in many (not all I'm sure) cases it could be that what we as adults conditioned by religion/societal norms/fear/whatever call an 'over active ' imagination could in fact be a latent paranormal expertise and in fact might (as stormkeeper attests to) be a true experience.

Why are the western societal norms neccessarily wrong and you be so suspicious of them? It sounds like some people (not just you but the others looking for kids) are just desperate to believe in the paranormal and would like to believe children can experience them more but no one believes them.

When I was a kid (prob around 5-6) staying in my grandparents house at the back of a rural village in hong kong. I once saw a giant moth one evening and another evening a giant grasshopper type insect inside the house. Both times I was told it was the greatgrandparents came back to see the greatgrandkids.

That kind of superstition is very common in rural parts of asia. They have all sorts of paranormal believes and I was told many things. Sometimes it's better that the children are the ones with the overactive imagination. Otherwise you might just move progress back far enough to bring back the witch hunt.

jawlie

Ziycon wrote:

I believe that children are more likely to have an paranormal experience as they havent been conditioned to believe what society sees as normal beliefs. ....

This seems to be a fairly widely held belief amongst those who believe in paranormal or supernatural phemomenon. Yet, strangely, I have never heard of a child who claims to know how to bend spoons, or claims to know about our past or about our future. That is always an adult, in my experience. What evidence, beyond being a widely held view, is there that children are more likely to have paranormal experiences?

It's a funny thing, but no one, child or adult, has ever successfully claimed the James Randi $1 million prize for paranormal or supernatural claims. Funny that.

The problem with this sort of thing is that there are always people who claim to have psychic or paranormal powers, but generally they are merely magicians. For example, one thinks of Uri gellar, as seen in the attached video, who claims to have a special gift, but who is not able to call on it in controlled conditions where he has not set up the scene. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Y7QR314xA&mode=related&search= or here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBEbfiaZTfc&mode=related&search= or here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF05m_wrgi4

I suppose the interesting thing about this subject is that there are so many people who want to believe it, and who decide they want to believe it, and who are afraid to look too deeply into the individuals who claim to have these powers.

Talliesin

jawlie wrote:

Yet, strangely, I have never heard of a child who claims to know how to bend spoons,

I've never met a psychic who did so too.

Really, why would anyone want to bend a spoon anyway; it's not like they're hard to bend manually.

I always distrust psychics with nothing better to do than bend spoons and yet who feel the need to tell the world about it. Really, who cares?

jawlie wrote:

or claims to know about our past or about our future.

I've certainly seen children exhibiting mediumship, though it tends to freak them out. Better to just calm them down and help them block it out that gabble on about how wonderful it is.

jawlie wrote:

It's a funny thing, but no one, child or adult, has ever successfully claimed the James Randi $1 million prize for paranormal or supernatural claims. Funny that.

If I could do stuff so precisely on cue as to pass that test, why should I bother with a piddling 1million USD?

jawlie wrote:

The problem with this sort of thing is that there are always people who claim to have psychic or paranormal powers, but generally they are merely magicians.

In my experience most people who claim to have psychic or paranormal powers don't claim complete control - the vast majority don't even claim the powers exhibit very often - and have zero interest in contracting the media and saying "oh, I get precognition, sometimes, hang around for a few months and it might happen again".

6th

I think children get made the focus because some people want to make use of it. Coming from a children people can take the "but they are innocent" route. I know that isn't the case with anyone on here as I've never found anyone on here to be anything but well meaning (with the odd exception).

When the original question was asked it was phrased as "experience the paranormal" ... now to many that would be taken up as ghosts, spirits etc but the "paranormal" is alot broader and includes many phenomenon such as PK, OBEs, Cryptozoology, UFO etc.

Whether children are more likely to possess psychic ability becomes irrelevent when you look at the likes of the Indigo children and you see (what looks to me like) pushy parents putting their children on a pedestal and under huge pressure - stealing them of their childhood.

CodeMonkey

Talliesin wrote:

If I could do stuff so precisely on cue as to pass that test, why should I bother with a piddling 1million USD?

Cause it's an easy $1 million start to recognition and even more money?

In my experience most people who claim to have psychic or paranormal powers don't claim complete control - the vast majority don't even claim the powers exhibit very often - and have zero interest in contracting the media and saying "oh, I get precognition, sometimes, hang around for a few months and it might happen again".

The cynic in me thinks that the vast majority of paranormal people want to tell the world and proof that they can do what they claim. They don't because they fear being made a fool of because they know deep down either nothing will happen after months or someone will have a logical explaination to whatever evidence they have and that what they believe is just a believe....

6th

Lads this is kinda going off topic ... wont somebody think of the children?

There are plenty of other threads to discuss "proof" and Mr. Randi's big wad of cash.

stevenmu

I absolutely agree, this is not the right thread, or even the right forum, for debunking the paranormal as a whole. If people refuse to post on topic they will be banned.

jawlie

stevenmu wrote:

I absolutely agree, this is not the right thread, or even the right forum, for debunking the paranormal as a whole. If people refuse to post on topic they will be banned.

I am not sure what is allowed to be on topic or off topic, or if I say the wrong thing without realising it then am I to be banished? If so, I was not aware that boards.ie was a totalitarian site which censored views which might not be acceptable. I thought it was a grown up site for adults to discuss issues of common interest, and I didn;t think it was the job of a moderator to censor those views except in cases where they are grossly offensive or illegal or hateful.

It seems to me that wondering if children have a higher predisposition to paranormal occurrences than adults opens up the whole debate as to what is paranormal, whether or not paranormal actually exists and ,if so, how it exists. Part of that is to point out that many people who claim to have paranormal or psychic powers are charlatans, and to wonder why, even when this is proved beyond doubt, others remain as believers that they have powers.

I am sad that we are forbidden to discuss this further, so this is my last post in this thread.

stevenmu

You are correct, it is not the job of moderator to censor viewpoints. However it is the job of a moderator to ensure that discussions can proceed smoothly within the framework and rules of the forum. Two of the rules of the forum are that blanket dismissals of the paranormal can not be made, and demands for proof can not be made. There are grey areas around these and people will generally warned when they stray over the line, not instantly banned, unless they are repeat offenders who appear to be knowingly and deliberately breaking the rules.

These rules have been put in place as the result of long experience on this forum, in which many a discussion has been ground to a halt with demands for proof of paranormal phenomona, often with questions as to why no one has claimed James Randi's prize. Since people generally can not provide proof of what are often personal experiences or just personal opinions, demands for proof of the paranormal tend to just kill otherwise interesting discussion.

Talk about proof of the paranormal and James Randi's prize could form many discussions of their own, and I see no reason why they shouldn't, new threads are free after all. This thread however is not about that, it makes the assumption that paranormal events do occur (how hypothetical such an assumption is is up to each individual), the discussion is then around whether children are more likely than adults to experience such events, and why this may or may not be.

Anybody who has a problem with what I have laid out here should either send me a private message or post on the feedback forum

jawlie

stevenmu wrote:

....

These rules have been put in place as the result of long experience on this forum, in which many a discussion has been ground to a halt with demands for ......

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It is irony indeed that the very thing you were trying to stop, ie the thread grinding to a halt, seems to be the very result of your post!

dubtom

Damn am I too late:eek:
I was going to tell of a mates young (at the time) daughter, about 5 or 6 I think, who claimed, in a very matter of fact way, to have talked often with her deceased grandfather,who in life she had never met. Her parents, although terrified at the thought,seemed to accept that it was happening as fact. Apparently there was some physic ability on the mother's side. This went on for several years, the girl I suppose would be an early teen now and I haven't heard or asked about it in a while.I will though.

jawlie

dubtom wrote:

Damn am I too late:eek:
I was going to tell of a mates young (at the time) daughter, about 5 or 6 I think, who claimed, in a very matter of fact way, to have talked often with her deceased grandfather,who in life she had never met. Her parents, although terrified at the thought,seemed to accept that it was happening as fact. Apparently there was some physic ability on the mother's side. This went on for several years, the girl I suppose would be an early teen now and I haven't heard or asked about it in a while.I will though.

Is the point here that psychic ability is something which is more likely to be inherited?

I know that as a child (I was quite young also, probably about 7) I decided that I was going to pretend to have seen a ghost. I was very convincing and never recounted the story and stuck to my guns for years.

It is also obvious that some adults who claim to have psychic powers are lying and are magicians who seem to want us to believe they have psychic powers.

What is difficult is to find an adult with pyschic powers who gets it right more times thana good guesser might.

6th

jawlie wrote:

What is difficult is to find an adult with psychic powers who gets it right more times than a good guesser might.

And have you tried to find them or are you just saying its difficult? How many psychics have you been to see?

What is easy is to find someone who makes their judgements based on what others say rather than going out and looking into it themselves.

jawlie

6th wrote:

And have you tried to find them or are you just saying its difficult? How many psychics have you been to see?

What is easy is to find someone who makes their judgements based on what others say rather than going out and looking into it themselves.

I haven't been to consult a single psychic, but then I have never consulted a witch doctor either, or a homoeopathic doctor. Are you trying to imply that its not possible to have an informed opinion without consulting a certain number of psychics, or witch doctors etc etc?

What I would be delighted to find is someone who has experience of someone who they think is an excellent psychic, and put their claims to the test. Perhaps the difference between us is that I want to believe in the paranormal, but for me the desire to believe is not enough.