4 more years for Eddie

Amazotheamazing

Disaster


http://www.irfu.ie/283_8675.php

tHE vAGGABOND

He is head and shoulders the most successful coach in Irish history - why not give him a new contract. He has earned it IMHO

We will have a few challenging years ahead, fair enough, with blokes retiring and what not - I therefore want experience at the helm, not some new bloke learning the ropes or some kiwi earning a few quid etc.

I totally back them giving him a new deal..

Amazotheamazing

Why not wait until after the RWC? Or even better, when we actually win something meaningful.

Hamo

I have to agree with the sentiments that he is the most succesful coach we have had, albeit very predictable.

With the pending leadership of the Barbarians resting with him post RWC, one would have thought he was been lined up for the Lion's, will this extension prevent this? or will he carry out a dual role for the Lions tour to SA asssuming he is appointed.

One thing Eddie certainly is and that is not second best to anyone, so I don't see him sitting on the sidelines supporting another coach with the Lions, he quickly distant himself in NZ, remember Ireland and Warren G, Eddie was never going to be second fiddle...

Amazotheamazing

As an aside, I would consider the coach of the GS winning side, or even the coach of the last Championship winning side to be more successful, as they actually won meaningful titles. EOS has a great win loss % but still no real titles.

toomevara

Who would you guys moot as an alternative to eddie?

Amazotheamazing

toomevara wrote:

Who would you guys moot as an alternative to eddie?

Hard to say really, Ruddock has Irish links for one, Knox could probably step up as backs coach.

tHE vAGGABOND

Im sorry, Eddie has his faults, off the top of my head I think ignoring Gleeson is criminal and his failure to develop backup talent at key positions - but I dont want someone Staunton'esque in charge of my team

We [maybe] have some hard years ahead, and thats when his experience [and that of his back room team] will be key. Im fully behind this new contract!

Diamondmaker

I agree bring him on...

I think anyone who disagrees should offer a suitable alternative, there have been none so far mentioned......

Amazotheamazing

Diamondmaker wrote:

I agree bring him on...

I think anyone who disagrees should offer a suitable alternative, there have been none so far mentioned......

Really, perhaps if we forward a list of suitable alternatives to the IRFU they might change their mind? Look at the Welsh team that won the GS, why can't Ireland manage something similar? LaPorte has won a GS and a championship recently despite blooding loads of new players, we've won nothing.

Diamondmaker

Amazotheamazing wrote:

why can't Ireland manage something similar?.

A bit of bad luck to be fair........

Any way if people here cant think of a few real solid candidates then there probably are not any.

Why tinker with something thats working quite well?

kevmy

While I think Eddie should lead us for the next couple of years (Let us not forget what the endless chopping and changing of coaches did for us in the mid to late 90's). I'm not sure about the timing of this - while it is a vote of confidence in the management team before the WC it also doesn't let the IRFU take it into account when renewing Eddies contract.

We have been building towards this WC for the last 4 years so surely Eddie should be judged at least partially on how we perform? I mean if we crash and burn (which I don't think will happen) or perform to an average level (knocked out against NZ after a decent showing) or do well (beating France and reaching a semi) Eddie still gets the same contract.

Did the FAI not offer Mick McCarthy a really long contract before the soccer WC in 2002 then have to pay him sh1tloads of cash when it all went belly-up?

Amazotheamazing

Losers blame bad luck, winners always seem to mysteriously get good luck.

jameshayes

I think the way the press our lately - if we change manager they will be out for his blood,

If we got a new manager last thursday and friday turned out the way it did - he'd be replaced already...

Diamondmaker

Amazotheamazing wrote:

Losers blame bad luck, winners always seem to mysteriously get good luck.

Ehh Yeah !!!

Now to be fair we had the French TMO call against the Scots, We leaked the late try to the Italians, which also went to TMO, we let a freak try in at the death against France when the whole team fell asleep, we had unlucky injury to our captain in the Crunch game.

( when there are 15 players in a team it is BAD luck when it is your captain and BOD who gets an injury, he is prone to the hammer - no plannning, preparation or professionalism can stop him having this recurring problem. Its bad luck he has this issue )

Any one of those went our way and we would have a GS or 6N as it happens they all went the French way and they won.

RuggieBear

he should have been judged on the world cup but EOS is too clever to have that guillotine hanging over his head

Sangre

Anyone else think its a bad omen eddie didnt want to wait until after the WC to renegotiate his contract? Or am i being paranoid?

Amazotheamazing

It wasn't good luck that got France two vital last minute tries, nor was it luck that got Wilkinson successive drop goal attempts in the RWC, winners make their own luck, losers go around crying how they can't get any good luck.

Diamondmaker

Amazotheamazing wrote:

It wasn't good luck that got France two vital last minute tries, nor was it luck that got Wilkinson successive drop goal attempts in the RWC, winners make their own luck, losers go around crying how they can't get any good luck.

didnt say it was!!! I said it was BAD luck in the incidents that went against the Irish.

To be fair the TMO calls were 50:50 and it IS good luck they bothj went their way.

this is a stupid debate.

Luck, freak occurances, actions out of the control of the team, management and support happen.

call it what you want if more occur in your favour it helps win things, if more go against you............

Amazotheamazing

Rubbish, Ireland have lost loads of games in the last few minutes recently becuase the opposition showed a greater will to win. Ie, 2 tests in NZ, France game for example, even the Arg games over the summer. Nothing to do with TMO's or other excuses, France knew they had to score and they did. Same with any team who's ever won a meaningful title.

buck65

He probably got the most out of this bunch. Perhaps we have peaked. Still a massively successful time for Irish rugby.

Diamondmaker

Amazotheamazing wrote:

becuase the opposition showed a greater will to win.

Leaving the other debate aside as its pointless........

so is this Eddies fault that the players cannot dig deep enough....should Eddie be some form of mental guru who can instill into them a greater toughness, or is it an "Irish" thing, as you seem to allude to, that perhaps culturally, we have not got that steel yet!?

This cant be Eddies fault?

Its not Eddies fault that 4 Irish players switched off during the French game in last minute and were picturing returning from Rome on an open top bus !!

Bottom line in that dressing room those players had to apologise to EOS and the rest of the team for costing him and them a GS, why should he be punished for their ommission at one moment in time?

Tim Robbins

Oh no, four more years of Stringer.

Stev_o

As much as i hate him for the way he coaches i guess he's the best we got theres no one else there to take the job really. Though id still like to have Gatland back somewhere in the management:rolleyes:

Jackz

Amazotheamazing wrote:

Really, perhaps if we forward a list of suitable alternatives to the IRFU they might change their mind? Look at the Welsh team that won the GS, why can't Ireland manage something similar? LaPorte has won a GS and a championship recently despite blooding loads of new players, we've won nothing.

France:

Population: 64 million approx

Rugby:
Rugby union is one of the most popular sports in France, and is especially popular in the south of the country There are around 1720 clubs in France and over 200,000 registered players.

Ireland:

Polulation: 4.2 million approx

According to the IRB Ireland has 201 rugby union clubs; 614 referees; 25,000 pre-teen male players; 35,000 teen male players; 14,500 senior male players (total male players 74,500) as well as 10,000 pre-teen female players; 800 teen female players; 1,200 senior female players (total female players 12,000).

Jackz

Tim Robbins wrote:

Oh no, four more years of Stringer.

Who would you prefer exactly? Just someone bigger?

He gives ROG the quick ball he wants.
He has been playing with ROG since he was seven.
He takes on clearances at the back of scrums when required.
Has made crucial tackles for Ireland and Munster.
He is as phsicaly fit as any man in the team.

Before the couple of passes that resulted in the Swerves try against England he feigned to move one way nicely taking the attention of two players.

I think you either need to watch him more closely or stop being biased.

Also, I wouldn't understimate how much his game is a result of what ROG wants.

BOHSBOHS

erm our population is more like 5.7 million not 4.2m ......

anyway back on topic....
i do mayb think it shows up expectations for the world cup...
ie QF at best...
but as has been mentioned eddies been ireland best manager by a long way

Jackz

Duplicate.

Jackz

BOHSBOHS wrote:

erm our population is more like 5.7 million not 4.2m ......

CSO 2006


But damn I forgot our cousins in the North 1.7 million of them makes 5.9 million. Whats 1.7 million out when you comparing it to 64 million eh?

EdgarAllenPoo

I have a problem with this in that he now knows that no matter what happens or how badly we do in France his job is safe. That's not right, he will also feel no sense of urgency in blooding new players because he thinks he has all the time in the world to do what he wants.

Chucky the tree

Jackz wrote:

CSO 2006


But damn I forgot our cousins in the North 1.7 million of them makes 5.9 million. Whats 1.7 million out when you comparing it to 64 million eh?

Any reason you decided too not give Wales' population?

kevmy

Chucky the tree wrote:

Any reason you decided too not give Wales' population?

What have Wales done in the last 25 years. Shag all

Also the Welsh only play rugby and soccer, they don't have the distraction of the GAA (which lets not forget has the 1st and 3rd most popular field sports in Ireland)

Chucky the tree

Diamondmaker wrote:

Ehh Yeah !!!

Now to be fair we had the French TMO call against the Scots, We leaked the late try to the Italians, which also went to TMO, we let a freak try in at the death against France when the whole team fell asleep, we had unlucky injury to our captain in the Crunch game.

Oh come on!

So because 2 tries are correctly given by the TMO it's because of our bad luck?! haha, brilliant! I also dont think leaking two late tries in crucial matches is "bad luck" its bad play and the fault of the players/manager.

Diamondmaker wrote:

( when there are 15 players in a team it is BAD luck when it is your captain and BOD who gets an injury, he is prone to the hammer - no plannning, preparation or professionalism can stop him having this recurring problem. Its bad luck he has this issue )

Any one of those went our way and we would have a GS or 6N as it happens they all went the French way and they won.

It's bad management that without one player on the pitch the other 14 players seem to crumble under the pressure ala the French match.

Diamondmaker wrote:

Leaving the other debate aside as its pointless........

so is this Eddies fault that the players cannot dig deep enough....should Eddie be some form of mental guru who can instill into them a greater toughness, or is it an "Irish" thing, as you seem to allude to, that perhaps culturally, we have not got that steel yet!?

Eh, of course it's Eddie's fault. In every single team sport in the world the buck stops with the manager, why should it be any different for the Irish Rugby team? You really dont think it's a coaches job too instill mental believe and toughness into his players?! Wow.

Diamondmaker wrote:

Its not Eddies fault that 4 Irish players switched off during the French game in last minute and were picturing returning from Rome on an open top bus !!

Bottom line in that dressing room those players had to apologise to EOS and the rest of the team for costing him and them a GS, why should he be punished for their ommission at one moment in time?

EOS pick's the team, maybe he shouldnt pick players who cant concentrate for a full game? Or at least try and sub them off at some stage.



Cant believe he has been given a new contract before the WC, thats something the FAI would do.

Chucky the tree

kevmy wrote:

What have Wales done in the last 25 years. Shag all

Oh my...

Sangre

Chucky the tree wrote:

Any reason you decided too not give Wales' population?

Well it is there main sport by a mile. Rugby would be 4th in Ireland, tops.

Tim Robbins

Jackz wrote:

Who would you prefer exactly? Just someone bigger?

He gives ROG the quick ball he wants.
He has been playing with ROG since he was seven.
He takes on clearances at the back of scrums when required.
Has made crucial tackles for Ireland and Munster.
He is as phsicaly fit as any man in the team.

Before the couple of passes that resulted in the Swerves try against England he feigned to move one way nicely taking the attention of two players.

I think you either need to watch him more closely or stop being biased.

Also, I wouldn't understimate how much his game is a result of what ROG wants.

Stringer is too frigging predictable. He is a major liability.
All he can do is pass. The try Italy scored that should have won them the match was his fault. Any decent 9 would have fell on that ball and set it up. Stringer instead of trying to tidy up a messy ball still tried to pass it.

The entire match Italy easily slowed down the ball. Defenses don't have to worry about marking him at the ruck and can just commit an extra defender to the ruck to slow it down. Once the ruck ball has been slowed down by 5 seconds what is the point of having a player who can pass it to 10 in .2 of a second quicker than Reddan or Boss.

Furthermore, when the ruck ball is not clean, any good team, the 9 should be able to commit himself to the ruck secure the ball and someone else steps in and sets it up. When does Stringer ever do this?

He punches above his weight but he rarely puts in a decent it, he can't his too small.

I'd take Reddan or Boss anyday over Stringer.

Borzoi

RuggieBear wrote:

he should have been judged on the world cup but EOS is too clever to have that guillotine hanging over his head

ndeed, what was the original point of having a contract that ended after the RWC except to give the IRFU the opportunity to remove an underperforming manager.

It remains to be seen what Eddie is, but I have my doubts about his ability to get the most out of our players

quagmire69

Amazotheamazing wrote:

Disaster


http://www.irfu.ie/283_8675.php

thats a dreadful decision on the part of the irfu. we've won nothing and he's being rewarded for it. criminal.

should have been done after world cup if succesful.

imalegend

I have to have faith in the IRFU that there must be some sneaky point regarding this RWC performance...eg we don't get out of the group your a gonner!!In his interview talking about coaching the lions!!Eddie get a grip you cant even get the best out of our best team when we have them fit!!

This world cup will be a shamble and all thanks to him..What a bad selection in regards to the back row on his world cup squad,i have been on his back since day 1 and people are blinded by winning triple crowns,if malcom o kelly picked the team we would have won the same amount cos its down 2 people's ability The likes of BOD and ROG's and GDarcys and the POConnells...these are world class men and they alone can win triple crowns with a sprinkle of other talent thrown in around them.

I cant offer a suitable replacement but i think we defo need a southern hemisphere coach to bring our youth up in the right manner.Look at all of the new zelander's that come through..light years ahead of ours...And we are going 2 lose alot of players in the next few years and we need the young players developed into 1st teamers properly.

Eddie is not the way forward,we should have achieved much more under him with the group of players that are there and we didnt.End of story!

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Diamondmaker

C'mon be realisitc. Would one sigle player in that squad gosay it was bad management we did not win a 6N or GS or would they say it was there fault that individuals fell asleep?

Of couse the buck stops at the manager, does not mean it was their fault though!


You cant legislate, plan, mitigate or prevent every single occurance, a factor of luck and risk comes into everything in life, especially sport.
A coach cant coach a team how to react in the situation we were in last few mins vs the French. That comes from experience, experience that the English built up losing the GS similarly 3 years running before winning it eventually.
That last 5% of the mind is ultimately the players responsibility coaching and psychology can only go so far in the head.

I gave several examples any one of which went a different way, on a different day would have a profoundly different result. Maybe they went the correct way , maybe they did not, however, it was lucky for the French that they all went the way that favoured the French.
This does not always happen does it?

Sometimes calls go the other way! or even the wrong way. They had an elememt of "luck" in that all tight calls went in a manner that eventually stacked up to a French 6N victory.

marco_polo

imalegend wrote:

I have to have faith in the IRFU that there must be some sneaky point regarding this RWC performance...eg we don't get out of the group your a gonner!!In his interview talking about coaching the lions!!Eddie get a grip you cant even get the best out of our best team when we have them fit!!

This world cup will be a shamble and all thanks to him..What a bad selection in regards to the back row on his world cup squad,i have been on his back since day 1 and people are blinded by winning triple crowns,if malcom o kelly picked the team we would have won the same amount cos its down 2 people's ability The likes of BOD and ROG's and GDarcys and the POConnells...these are world class men and they alone can win triple crowns with a sprinkle of other talent thrown in around them.


I cant offer a suitable replacement but i think we defo need a southern hemisphere coach to bring our youth up in the right manner.Look at all of the new zelander's that come through..light years ahead of ours...And we are going 2 lose alot of players in the next few years and we need the young players developed into 1st teamers properly.

Eddie is not the way forward,we should have achieved much more under him with the group of players that are there and we didnt.End of story!

So let me get this straight, by your logic it is all the coaches fault that we didn't win a grand slam, but even if we had no coach at all we would have won those triple crowns anyway because the players are all so brilliant.

Its a pity they didn't go the extra mile and win the GS on their own in that case. Oh wait wasn't it one of the brilliant players who dropped that restart? I am guessing if we had a different coach in charge then that ball would have been caught though.

Also I assumed the coach was responsible for building a team to peak for the 2007 RWC which is NOW, not some indeterminate point in the future. Of course we are naturally going to lose some players afterwards, and then it will be time to. Youth development is not in the brief of the national team coach last time I checked.

Rant over, and i'm not even that big an EOS fan

Diamondmaker

I agree with Polo.

The Eddie bashing seems irrational to me. Of course buck stops with management but ultimately the GS was lost by individual errors on the field.
Obviously IRFU agree with our thoughts and that EOS did a good job and a GS was won only for individuals players failings and not that of the coach.

Sh1t happens, players f*ck up and they have to deal with the shame and memories for life, may drive some to the bottle or worse. The coach cannot do anything prior to a game or in training to mitigate for individual error.

Dont pick them someone said.....of the 3 or 4 or 5 culpable in the French try what we would we do if we did not pick them in the start, we would not have even got that far???

RugBeir

marco_polo wrote:

So let me get this straight, by your logic it is all the coaches fault that we didn't win a grand slam, but even if we had no coach at all we would have won those triple crowns anyway because the players are all so brilliant.

Yes, you are right; that group of players would easily have won Triple Crowns, regardless of the coach. And it does seem reasonable that with a different coach they might have won 2 or 3 championships!

Its up to the coach to bring out the best in a bunch of players. Personally do not believe this Irish team has come near its potential. Time and time again they have underperformed. The buck stops with EOS. He may not be on the pitch, but it is his job to select the best team, instill self-belief and motivate. By my yardstick he has singularly failed on each of these points.

I think the IRFU have made a stupendous mistake in appointing him for 4 more years. Looks like the FAI and Mick McCarthy all over again!

Depressing!

marco_polo

RugBeir wrote:

Yes, you are right; that group of players would easily have won Triple Crowns, regardless of the coach. And it does seem reasonable that with a different coach they might have won 2 or 3 championships!

Its up to the coach to bring out the best in a bunch of players. Personally do not believe this Irish team has come near its potential. Time and time again they have underperformed. The buck stops with EOS. He may not be on the pitch, but it is his job to select the best team, instill self-belief and motivate. By my yardstick he has singularly failed on each of these points.

I think the IRFU have made a stupendous mistake in appointing him for 4 more years. Looks like the FAI and Mick McCarthy all over again!

Depressing!

It is a bit disingenuious of people to give the players all the credit for any wins and to give the coach all of the blame for a loss.

By and large I think the has picked the best 15 available to him with maybe one or two tight calls at the most (usually somebodys opinion depends on which province they are from see Best Vs Flannery, Boss Vs Stringer, Easterby Vs Best) would one or two of those selections calls going the other way have made the difference against france this year?(I know Strings was injured), but I personally doubt it.

I cannot read the players minds when it come to self belief and motivation so I'll have to take your word on that one, all I can say is that whenever I listen to any of the players they seem to be very focused and confident bunch, and they seem to have enormous respect for their coach so he can't be completely rubbish in this regard.

Another one of my favourites bashing tools that you forgot to mention is how EOS has held back the development of younger and frindge squad players, as if we would magically have international class backup in reserve for out half, center and tight head with a different head coach for the last four years.

Not saying he has been a perfect coach by any means he has made his share of mistakes, he could certainly use his bench a bit better for one. If he has learnt from them in time for this world cup then I'll be very happy indeed.

Besides whatever your views on EOS there are no credible Irish alternatives out there at the moment (Since it appears the IRFU don't want to have an overseas coach in charge of the international team).

Chucky the tree

marco_polo wrote:

Also I assumed the coach was responsible for building a team to peak for the 2007 RWC which is NOW,

This is excactly the reason people arent happy with his new contract. He's coaching era is meant to be judged on how he does in the WC, so how can we give him an extension before the WC?!

marco_polo

Chucky the tree wrote:

This is excactly the reason people arent happy with his new contract. He's coaching era is meant to be judged on how he does in the WC, so how can we give him an extension before the WC?!

I can agree with that sentiment entirely, the timing of the announcement is completely ridiculous and very FAI like IMO. There is nothing to be gained from it (EOS hmself has said he had nothing else lined up) and everything to lose if it all goes pear shaped.

My main gripe is with people who are not even prepared to wait untill the RWC is over before laying into EOS, it all doom and gloom already. I just think the team have given us enough memorable days in recent years to deserve one more month of blind faith from us supporters . The ultimate goal for this group of players all along has been building towards the RWC 2007 (ideally with a 6N along the way ) so lets judge them this performance, and not get depressed about a few meaningles warmup games (Which I will be the first to admit were not very encouraging from a performance point of view).

If we get knocked out in the group stage or get absolutely hammered by both France and the All Blacks, then everyone can tear strips off them. I certainly won't be on here defending anyone if that happens.

imalegend

Ok marco maybe we are being a bit harsh,but my main issue is that he hasnt given us the best possible chance to beat the French or the All Blacks if needs be by his preparation for this WC.We are suppose to be on the edge of having a real shot at this RWC and now we are sitting here talking about hoping not to recieve a hammering.

Just out of interest if this does happen we lose to france and play ok and then lose to a good new z team we are suppose to be happy with that??We have made q/finals be4 with alot less to offer and i know we have a hard route this year but i wish we had a real good shot at winning our group as to have a shot at actually winning the thing.

If EOS can pull it out of the bag and we beat France he will be a hero here as we should then make the semi's at least.Im not dismissing Aregentina here as a tough game but i think we will come through that and i think deep down every Irish rugby follower will agree.

I do wish him the best of luck in the RWC despite my bashing as i would love nothing more 2 watch the Irish beat the French in Paris.

sioda

No manager should ever be given a contract extension before a major championship. Plus EOS's managing is suspect at best. The guy has no idea how to tactically substitute.

The fact that he has only one main team with no real chance of change is a huge disadvantage. Ireland have only one game plan with 15 players that opponents know backwards and forwards.

I know Stringer has got a good bit of a bashing on this thread and you know what it is fully justifed. Reddan and Boss are much better players and with more game time would make much better partners for ROG.

Shaun Payne is another perfect example. Although cleared to play for Ireland and infinitly better than Dempsey or Murphy EOS's blinkers for his main 15 shut him out.

Whats worse if we crash out big time in the WC we have no way of clearing out the manager and try and rebuild a new front and back room squad

bleg

haven't read all of the posts, just going to give a few reasons why i don't think he should have had is contract renewed


1. the obvious one, its before the WC, at least wait and judge him after.
2. takes any pressure that was on his job off his shoulders. any time his job has been under pressure the irish team has performed better.
3. Lack of consistency. Under his tenure Ireland have had amazing performances one week only to appear as a shadow of themselves the following week e.g. the England and scotland games in the 6 nations.
4. Underachievement. Look at the likes of Munster under Kidney, Leinster under Cheika, Connaught under Bradley and his predecessor Gatland, now in charge of the European champions. Kidney and Gatland have won the Heineken cup with their teams overperforming. Same happened with Australia last season. Granted this overperformance cannot be directly attributed to the coach but he definitely has some part to play. The year Munster won the Cup the Munster and Leinster players were immense for their provinces but didn't seem to click when playing for the national side.
5. 12 years, far too long for one coach to be in charge (about 75% of the time since the sport became professional in Ireland)
6. Lions Tour. O Sullivan will be taking time off in order to coach the Lions'
7. Lack of results. I don't know how he can be called the most successful Irish coach when we have not won ANY tournament under him. A few triple crowns against poor opposition for the most part. We have come close but looking back in 50 years time the record books will read France England and Wales during his past 7 years.
8. 250000 a year. What a waste.
9. Much better coaches out there. Looking at the 2 coaches in the 2 best irish provinces you have 2 credible alternatives. Declan Kidney who has vast experience and surely is the most successful Irish coach (i.e. he has actually tasted victory) and Michael Cheika who has reinvigorated a lacklustre Leinster side and made them into a force in European rugby.


I would have given the position to Kidney.

daveirl

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