Yaris - why bother?

RobAMerc

I am known to have a dislike of Toyota cars but I always give every car a chance before writing them off, so when the missus started on about an auto for herself I decided to give a 00 model a go as the choice is limited for small autos.
Anyway - heres a few words about my experience.

I can't begin to say how disappointed I was in this car, the ride was harsh, the road noise was atrocious, it felt flimsy, both shutting the door and on the road, the steering was overly assisted and lifeless and the dash was a wall of cheap looking plastic. The only pluses I could find for it was it has funky dials and it feels roomy enough for a small car, but other than that I just don't get it.
I couldn't imagine having to endure it for anything more than a short spin.
By comparison the 00 punto we have is quieter, has better ride, has better steering feel (better weighted too) and handles fairly tidily too.( I didn't get much of a chance to try out the handling of the Yaris to be fair)
I was always in favour of a blend of good dynamics and some character vs utter reliability but this car is not just devoid of character its awful, theres more to motoring than just reliability.
I can't help feeling that maybe if people bought less of these type cars we'd develop more of an affection for motoring here!

Henry Ford III

This could get amusing...

rovers_runner

You were doing fine until you mentioned a fiat, has to be a wind up.

Mailman

Sister got one recently and I'm less than impressed.
The bonnet on the Yaris is too high and there was too much road noise.

Much preferred her 99 Micra which has a normal driving position and preferred my old '98 Punto to that even though I've moved on to much bigger and better since then.

maidhc

maybe the car was just a bit worn and tired?

RobAMerc

rovers_runner wrote:

You were doing fine until you mentioned a fiat, has to be a wind up.

Whats that supposed to mean - Is it that just because Fiats are supposed to be unreliable they are deemed to be less able everywhere else?

maidhc wrote:

maybe the car was just a bit worn and tired?

I'm afraid not 30k miles - owned by a little old lady ( but aren't they all ).
What I am on about is not a symptom of poor condition.

layke

Welcome to the wonderful world of cheap 1L engine cars.

The cheap frame i.e in a crash you're taking the brunt of it.
Thin wheel base which means less grip especially with 4 or 5 in the car.
Can't overtake.

On the plus you get:

cheap tax,
good mpg
and cheap(er) insurance.

I can't think of any 1L off the top of my head that is pretty decent. But you have to understand that the manufacturer has to make it as cheap as possible to compete while (just barely) passing the safety limits.

RobAMerc

layke wrote:

Welcome to the wonderful world of cheap 1L engine cars.

The cheap frame i.e in a crash you're taking the brunt of it.
Thin wheel base which means less grip especially with 4 or 5 in the car.
Can't overtake.

On the plus you get:

cheap tax,
good mpg
and cheap(er) insurance.

I can't think of any 1L off the top of my head that is pretty decent. But you have to understand that the manufacturer has to make it as cheap as possible to compete while (just barely) passing the safety limits.

I don't buy it, their competitors manage to make cars that don't feel like biscuit tins on a rollerskate why can't they ?

cpoh1

RobAMerc wrote:

I don't buy it, their competitors manage to make cars that don't feel like biscuit tins on a rollerskate why can't they ?

What competitors is that exactly? The previous edition of the punto was a disaster like the one before that, and ive never in my life heard people mention the build quality, reliability and handling/performance in a good light until now. I suppose you get all sorts on here...

Someone mentioned earlier youre talking about a 1 litre engined car that costs chips to build and buy, if you want the build quality of a merc buy one.

Churchy

Expectations > wallet ?

RobAMerc

cpoh1 wrote:

What competitors is that exactly? The previous edition of the punto was a disaster like the one before that, and ive never in my life heard people mention the build quality, reliability and handling/performance in a good light until now. I suppose you get all sorts on here...

I think if you read my post I said "the ride was harsh, the road noise was atrocious, it felt flimsy, both shutting the door and on the road, the steering was overly assisted and lifeless and the dash was a wall of cheap looking plastic." - I never said the build quality was bad did I.

Also, I think you are confusing the reliability horrors you've heard about the Punto with the cars actual ability, which is way beyond that of the Yaris in the areas I mentioned.

To get away from this being a Punto bashing exercise the Fiesta is also far better than the Yaris dynamically as are I imagine most of its competitors.

cpoh1 wrote:

Someone mentioned earlier youre talking about a 1 litre engined car that costs chips to build and buy, if you want the build quality of a merc buy one.

And as I said before my point is if Ford and Fiat can build a car thats better in these areas why is everyone talking about how great the Yaris is - just because its reliable ?

Trotter

layke wrote:

I can't think of any 1L off the top of my head that is pretty decent.

If my my Toyota Aygo had ears, I'd be covering them now!

2005 Top Gear car of the year (shared with the Bugatti Veyron )

RobAMerc

Churchy wrote:

Expectations > wallet ?

That makes no sense, because my expectations were based on experience gained from its competitors.

Guy:Incognito

layke wrote:

Welcome to the wonderful world of cheap 1L engine cars.

The cheap frame i.e in a crash you're taking the brunt of it.
.

A good few current superminis score 4 or 5 star on the ncap.

http://www.euroncap.com/supermini.aspx

Quite a few around 00 were 4 star. (CLio/Punto/206/Fabia and funnily enough the 00 Yaris), Large family cars ( s60/Mondeo/75/Accord) got the same at the time.


for the record, ireally didnt like the Yaris when I drove one for the ignition course (would have been around 99-00)

cpoh1

Robamerc, opinions are like arseholes, everbodies got one. Youre entitled to your opinion but its a gas the way nigh on every professional car journalist out there thinks the opposite to you.

If you think the punto and fiesta are better cars go away and buy one, was there really a need to start a thread about it?

Del2005

What does herself think of the car? It's a cheap car aimed at city drivers, also are the Fiesta's not bigger engined?

When I see 1 old lady owner I'd run away from the thing. Only driven to mass and the shops at 10mph in 5th gear and hitting ever curb on the way, the things do be knackered but for some reason people think they are good. Give me a car owned by someone who knows how to drive, but not rally it any day.

colm_mcm

Del2005 wrote:

When I see 1 old lady owner I'd run away from the thing. Only driven to mass and the shops at 10mph in 5th gear

It's automatic.....

RobAMerc

cpoh1 wrote:

Robamerc, opinions are like arseholes, everbodies got one. Youre entitled to your opinion but its a gas the way nigh on every professional car journalist out there thinks the opposite to you.

Really ? Can you quote any who think the Yaris is the best small car available for anything other than reliability ?
What publications do you read regularly that backs your claims up ?

cpoh1 wrote:

If you think the punto and fiesta are better cars go away and buy one, was there really a need to start a thread about it?

Isn't ruffling a few feathers by pointing out a Punto is a nicer car to drive than a Yaris and getting a bit of a debate going better than the usual, "How do I put water in my washer bottle" stuff thats normally on boards - or do you find they stretch your technical knowledge enough.

ninty9er

Del2005 wrote:

What does herself think of the car? It's a cheap car aimed at city drivers, also are the Fiesta's not bigger engined?

The Yaris being auto, I expect it's a 1.3 and not a 1.0, open to correction on that though. the SMG (I think it was called[manual with no clutch pedal]) was available in 1.0 at the time if memory serves correct. Colm??

dumbyearbook

Driving position in the Yaris is like sitting on a toilet - horrid car imo. Fiesta anyday.

colm_mcm

Yaris had option of conventional auto on the 1.3, MMT on 1.0 and 1.3 and conventional auto on jap imports.

dcGT

RobAMerc wrote:

I am known to have a dislike of Toyota cars but I always give every car a chance before writing them off, so when the missus started on about an auto for herself I decided to give a 00 model a go as the choice is limited for small autos.
Anyway - heres a few words about my experience.

I can't begin to say how disappointed I was in this car, the ride was harsh, the road noise was atrocious, it felt flimsy, both shutting the door and on the road, the steering was overly assisted and lifeless and the dash was a wall of cheap looking plastic. The only pluses I could find for it was it has funky dials and it feels roomy enough for a small car, but other than that I just don't get it.
I couldn't imagine having to endure it for anything more than a short spin.
By comparison the 00 punto we have is quieter, has better ride, has better steering feel (better weighted too) and handles fairly tidily too.( I didn't get much of a chance to try out the handling of the Yaris to be fair)
I was always in favour of a blend of good dynamics and some character vs utter reliability but this car is not just devoid of character its awful, theres more to motoring than just reliability.
I can't help feeling that maybe if people bought less of these type cars we'd develop more of an affection for motoring here!

I fully agree with you. I've had experience with both cars, and although I despise Fiats for their reliability, or lack thereof (the Punto I drove had endless faults, including the obligatory head-gasket), I found the punto to be much better drive (when it worked). It was more comfortable, quieter and more nimble. I couldn't believe how 'high' the driving position felt in the Yaris. The roll when cornering was unreal. It felt like I was sitting in (or on) a bus. Also, the Yaris on a motorway in windy conditions is an experience. I know most small cars sway a little but the punto felt more planted at high speeds. In fairness to the Yaris, it hasn't given one bit of trouble.

Wouldn't it be nice if Fiat and Toyota merged their expertise to create a comfortable/nippy/quiet car that never broke down

I've always thought that if Toyota/Honda could put their engines, electrics & reliability into an Alfa body, t'would be a great seller. Bring on the "Alfa VTEC"

tinkerbell

I actually have a Yaris (a '05 one) and it's actually given me no problems at all ... the only problem was one day I got a flat tyre!! So if all I'm getting is a flat tyre once in two years then I'm happy

It's good on the ol fuel consumption as well and it's grand for a small car. Tiz my first car now and I would like to move up to a better car at some stage (i.e. a MINI oh yah!) but it's doing me grand for the time being.

Plus I like the digital speedometer thingy

dcGT wrote:

Also, the Yaris on a motorway in windy conditions is an experience.

Oh totally agree with you there, it's some experience alright!!! Tiz brutal!!! One day I felt like the car was gonna blow over to the other side of the motorway twas so windy! A bit scary actually

wingnut

tinkerbell wrote:

I would like to move up to a better car at some stage (i.e. a MINI oh yah!

Not much of an improvement TBH

RobAMerc

Isn't it amazing that people who probably have no experience of either car come on here calling me nuts because I think a Fiat amongst others are a nicer car than a Toyota ?

Just goes to show that as far as alot of boardies are concerned Fiat = sh*te and Toyota = good, but they have nothing to base their opinions on other than they hear Fiats break down and Toyotas don't.

Paulzx

Well i have experience of both and i completely disagree with you. Missus had a punto and has had two Yaris since. Absolutely no comparison. Punto was a96 and gave numerous probs with only 30000 on the clock. Head gasket blew of course after the thermostat stuck. Constantly had to change electrical componets like transmitter switches etc. and blew bulbs like it was getting kickbacks from the bulb manufacturers. It was also an absolute dog to drive.

The yaris isnt exactly a ferrari but it does what it was bought for unlike the punto

RobAMerc

Paulzx wrote:

Well i have experience of both and i completely disagree with you. Missus had a punto and has had two Yaris since. Absolutely no comparison. Punto was a96 and gave numerous probs with only 30000 on the clock. Head gasket blew of course after the thermostat stuck. Constantly had to change electrical componets like transmitter switches etc. and blew bulbs like it was getting kickbacks from the bulb manufacturers. It was also an absolute dog to drive.

The yaris isnt exactly a ferrari but it does what it was bought for unlike the punto

OK firstly your totally missing the point of my argument - I admitted the punto is not as reliable as the toyota - but there is more to driving a car than just reliability.
Secondly your not comparing like with like - a 96 punto cannot compare with a Yaris as the Yaris came out in 99 - therefore would be compared with the next generation of Punto to yours. My punto is 1.3 and the Yaris 1.0 so I deliberately left out any mention of performance in my OP as it would be unfair to the Yaris.
thirdly - its a dog to drive isn't exactly a good description of what was wrong with it (to drive), compared to the effort you put into telling us how much it broke down.

endplate

Going slightly off topic but my sis has had 3 new puntos since '99. Now if they were a troublesome car I don't think she would have gone back to them. Look at the new Grande Punto. Biggish well equiped interiour for small money. People in Ireland have to come out of the seventies some cars aren't as bad as they uesd to be. I tell you one thing the car companies know how to rip us off. The expensive popular small cars ie VW, Toyota sell very well but are soooooooo bland with very few extras. Cheaper cars with poorer reputation ie Fiat sell better equiped better looking cars. With the exception of the Multipla that thing is rotten IMO:D

Kali

I've driven ~20k in both the older and newer style-Puntos, and an '02 Yaris.. and both of the Puntos had extremely worrying levels of body roll as well, it's by no means the sturdy ride it's portrayed as here compared to the Yaris.

You have to remember what these types of cars are designed and built for... that is city and urban driving, not pelting down the M1 or sideways down a country road. And at that task (urban driving) the Yaris simply is outstanding, great unobstructed views (although the seating is a tad too high for me, but I'm 6ft+), nimble and extremely easy to steer at low speeds, a well-designed interior with a lot of storage, and for a car which is much smaller than the Punto, it has the exact same space if not more leg-room for passengers (front & rear)... good bit less luggace space though.
Without meaning to be sexist, it really is a fantastic woman's town/city run-around

layke

RobAMerc wrote:

Just goes to show that as far as alot of boardies are concerned Fiat = sh*te and Toyota = good, but they have nothing to base their opinions on other than they hear Fiats break down and Toyotas don't.

My mother had a 99 model. It had endless engine problems. Lots of my mates have heavily modded Toyotas and hear sweet FA about engine problems. That's what I base my opinons on.

cpoh1

What exactly are you buying a car like a punto or yaris for? To drive the beans out of on backroads and sit back and admire its lush interior while boasting of its performance capabilities? Or maybe just maybe you are buying a reliable, economical, cheap to insure little hatch that will get you from A to B and not give you a days trouble.

If its the latter then a yaris is the one to buy, a female friend has had one from new back in 2000 and bar servicing it for €80 worth of parts that I put in for her and spending on tyres every 2 years the car has never missed a beat. if I want a decent handling car ill buy one that is designed to do just that, not a bloody punto. After doing over a dozen punto head gaskets in my friends garage over the years in cars less than 4 years old I know what my money would be on.

And I wouldnt agree about the handling and ride of the punto being superior comments either, but thats down to personal preference. The reliability I am sure of.

colm_mcm

I have experience of both cars in question, as i bought a 00 Punto new. it was very solidly build inside, and everything felt well put tgether, the plastics looked of a higher quality finish to that of the Yaris. However, a lot of the interior plastics on my car were quite brittle and marked or broke easily. The Punto has a very quiet engine, and insulation is better than on the Yaris.

The Yaris is good in other areas though. it's easier to manouver, the interior is far more durable, road tax is lower, it doesn't need a timing belt, and reliability is top notch.

RobAMerc

cpoh1 wrote:

What exactly are you buying a car like a punto or yaris for? To drive the beans out of on backroads and sit back and admire its lush interior while boasting of its performance capabilities? Or maybe just maybe you are buying a reliable, economical, cheap to insure little hatch that will get you from A to B and not give you a days trouble.

I think you'll find most people here in Ireland with one of these cars would end up having to use it to go on journeys outside of cities too, and I am saying the Yaris is not as capable as others on the open road. And again, I am saying as a motoring enthusiast I would rather have a car that handled and rode well than buy a Yaris simply because its a reliable car!

cpoh1 wrote:

If its the latter then a yaris is the one to buy, a female friend has had one from new back in 2000 and bar servicing it for €80 worth of parts that I put in for her and spending on tyres every 2 years the car has never missed a beat. if I want a decent handling car ill buy one that is designed to do just that, not a bloody punto. After doing over a dozen punto head gaskets in my friends garage over the years in cars less than 4 years old I know what my money would be on.

Irrelevant

cpoh1 wrote:

And I wouldnt agree about the handling and ride of the punto being superior comments either, but thats down to personal preference. The reliability I am sure of.

What a cop out ! A car handles and rides well or it doesn't, your happy to disagree with me that the Yaris is not as good to drive but only Kali has given any reason as to why, what is it that ye find so good about a Yaris OTHER THAN reliability thats better than its competitors ?

cpoh1

Robamerc are you for real?????

How is it irrelevant that the yaris is reliable and the punto is not? You are aware that 90% of people out there have no interest in how a car handles and performs and are more interested in having a reliable motor that gets you from A to B without hassle, is cheap to run and maintain and holds its value. I bet my gran has no interest in whether you think the punto is better on the open road and is more concerned about the temp guage rising unexpectedly and whether its going to start in the morning before she goes to mass.

Finally youre asking me why I think the yaris handles as well as the punto? Do you want me to spout the usual rubbish about holding corners well, minimal body roll, front end tucks in nicely? To be honest I noticed feck all difference between the two, theyre both underpowered cheap runarounds that handle like boats and are equally as boring to drive. And I wouldnt expect anything else from them!

The yaris is better than the punto and its competitors because its

More reliable
Holds its residuals miles better
Cheaper to tax (1L)
Cheaper to insure (1L)
More interior space and back seat area
Has longer service intervals and timing chain over belt (cheaper to maintain)

And that im afriad is all anybody who buys a little underpowered hatch wants from a car. If I want a hatch that performs ill buy a 106gti or even better an old 1.9L 205gti, not a punto or a fiesta.

RobAMerc

As your on a motoring forum I expected you'd have an interest in which was the nicest car to drive and other "rubbish" rather than which is the most reliable.

I picked the punto as an example because its the complete opposite of the Yaris a decent drive/ride with questionable reliability. but theres loads out there that do alot better than the Yaris for driver appeal.

Reliability is not all people who buy a small car want - including me!

And lastly I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference between the handling of a Yaris and a fork lift truck.

dcGT

If we were to remove the following from the equation: -

a) Reason for buying either car
b) Reliability of either car
c) Cost of buying or running either car
d) All other cars

THEN, how would you compare, contrast & rate the Yaris & Punto. If we just take them at face value, and look at the driving experience & interior, what would your opinions be?

DC.

D:

I work next door to a garage and i can promise you, there's more puntos in and out of that place than any other car.

I've driven an 00 punto for an hour, it was horrible.. even compared to my 1l 98 VW Polo.

dcGT

wrote:

I work next door to a garage and i can promise you, there's more puntos in and out of that place than any other car.

Once again, reliability of the Punto over the yaris was not in question

wrote:

I've driven an 00 punto for an hour, it was horrible.. even compared to my 1l 98 VW Polo.

That's comparing the Punto to a Polo, not a Yaris

cpoh1

RobAMerc wrote:

As your on a motoring forum I expected you'd have an interest in which was the nicest car to drive and other "rubbish" rather than which is the most reliable.

I picked the punto as an example because its the complete opposite of the Yaris a decent drive/ride with questionable reliability. but theres loads out there that do alot better than the Yaris for driver appeal.

Reliability is not all people who buy a small car want - including me!

And lastly I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference between the handling of a Yaris and a fork lift truck.

You see I disagree with you, the yaris is just as (un)capable on the road as the punto, I cant see where you got this notion in the first place, both are equally crap on the road. Both have very similar wheelbases, suspension setup and weights. If I wanted a small car that handled id be looking at a 106gti as a cheap modern alternative, I certainly wouldnt bother with a punto.

I have a massive interest in cars, but when it came to choosing my daily driver all I wanted was a car that was cheap to buy and run, never broke down and had a bit of room too. The majority of people only want this in a car. If I want a spin in a car that handles I have my gtr.

bazz26

While I agree that reliability should not be the be all and end all factor when choosing a car it should however still be an important factor imo. After all an unreliable car will deminish the ownership and driving experience, no point in having a car with great driving characteristics and soft touch plastics if it is stuck at the side of the road. Nothing worse than a troublesome car imo, it takes away the pleasure of owning a car and you end up hating it.

Alot of people out there don't see their car as anything other than a to b transport or it is an unimportant part of their daily life, so they want to get where they are going with as little hassel as possible. The likes of the Yaris do this very well and there is nothing wrong with that. If you want something else from a car then simply look at something else. It's a no brainer imo.

With the likes of the Punto it is hit and miss, unfortunately it is the troublsome ones that give Fiat the bad reputation it has but unfortunately bad reps are easier to earn than get rid of.