Gun Slinger

slugster

Does my pistol licence entitle me to carry the firearm in a holster on my person? without getting special branch excited:)

Rew

In what context?

In a shooting bay on the range yes, else where no.

slugster

use and carry is stated on the licence??

fishdog

Does my pistol licence entitle me to carry the firearm in a holster on my person? without getting special branch excited

Outside of a range, now what do you think????

What possible reason could you give the a cop for carrying a pistol in a holster apart from when you are in a place that you are allowed to shoot a pistol???

Sparks

slugster wrote:

use and carry is stated on the licence??

I keep hearing that question more and more often for some bizzare reason, given that the most sensible answer is "If you think that the words on a form drafted on a friday evening by some random nobody in the civil service seventy-odd years ago outweighs the legislation passed by the Dail in the Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act 1990, you didn't deserve to have the certificate before they took it off you and dragged you in front of the bench".

In short, no. You can't carry a firearm in a public place without good reason and "my cert sounds like a US carry permit if you squint" isn't good reason.

BryanL

if you find yourself in OK coral Dodge city, you might get away with it.Ask Wyatt Earp

CLADA

slugster wrote:

Does my pistol licence entitle me to carry the firearm in a holster on my person? without getting special branch excited:)

mmmm! I feel a period of detention under Sec. 30 of the offences against the state act coming for slugster.

rrpc

Why the *** would you want to go around with a gun in a holster outside of a range????

I'll leave the question about the holster on the range out of this

E. Fudd

This is the very thing that gives the shooting fraternity a bad name, regardless of this being (hopefully) a hypothetical question or not.
Jesus, you get funny looks walking down a country road with a shotgun and a dog on a winters afternoon, let alone walking around with a holstered pistol!
I would think that a lot of the general public wouldn't even realise that pistols are legal in Ireland, can you even imagine the reaction you'd get.
If you are just asking the question hypothetically, fine, but if your actually serious, I've one word for you......... TOOL!!!

slugster

Thanks Lads for the answer, But remember theres no such thing as a silly question from someone who asks!. Save the sarcasim in futhure replies to fellow shooters as they may alienate those who need your knowledge.

Mr. Gun

Hey Slugster,

Dont mind the arseholes that posted above, with responses like that they dont deserve to even hold a ****ing gun.

And as I have already stated the Garda have publicly stated that there is NOTHING they can do if licensed pistol holders want to carry their firearms on their person. Yes it is implied through common sense that you will only carry it going to and from the range but it doesnt state anywhere that you can only carry it going to and from the range. And forget the offensive weapons crap Sparks will you. All you seem to do here is cut and paste sections of the law big ****ing deal. If the law is so clear then why the **** do we have solicitors and barristers, hang on maybe its their job to interpret the law not yours.

Rew

Mr. Gun wrote:

Hey Slugster,

Dont mind the arseholes that posted above, with responses like that they dont deserve to even hold a ****ing gun.

And as I have already stated the Garda have publicly stated that there is NOTHING they can do if licensed pistol holders want to carry their firearms on their person. Yes it is implied through common sense that you will only carry it going to and from the range but it doesnt state anywhere that you can only carry it going to and from the range. And forget the offensive weapons crap Sparks will you. All you seem to do here is cut and paste sections of the law big ****ing deal. If the law is so clear then why the **** do we have solicitors and barristers, hang on maybe its their job to interpret the law not yours.

Banned from shooting section. When you can take a grown up attitude to posting PM me and you can come back. There are ways to make a valid point without that tone and language.

Rew

rrpc wrote:

Why the *** would you want to go around with a gun in a holster outside of a range????

I'll leave the question about the holster on the range out of this

Banned for 1 week for circumventing the bad language filters. PM me in a week to be allowed back in.

Rew

pampers wrote:

This is the very thing that gives the shooting fraternity a bad name, regardless of this being (hopefully) a hypothetical question or not.
Jesus, you get funny looks walking down a country road with a shotgun and a dog on a winters afternoon, let alone walking around with a holstered pistol!
I would think that a lot of the general public wouldn't even realise that pistols are legal in Ireland, can you even imagine the reaction you'd get.
If you are just asking the question hypothetically, fine, but if your actually serious, I've one word for you......... TOOL!!!

Border line pampers I understand the sentiment but everyone deserves the benifit of doubt so lets keep it to answering the questions.

Rew

Mr. Gun wrote:

And as I have already stated the Garda have publicly stated that there is NOTHING they can do if licensed pistol holders want to carry their firearms on their person. Yes it is implied through common sense that you will only carry it going to and from the range but it doesnt state anywhere that you can only carry it going to and from the range. And forget the offensive weapons crap Sparks will you. All you seem to do here is cut and paste sections of the law big ****ing deal. If the law is so clear then why the **** do we have solicitors and barristers, hang on maybe its their job to interpret the law not yours.

"publicly" where, when, what? Dont quote empty space when other people at least bother to quote the law.

Rew

Touchy subject so lets keep it clean and to the point. I take you point Slugster but when you come one and post one liners like you did your asking for these kind of responses. Flesh out your question with more context and you will get better answers.

rrpc

Mr. Gun wrote:

Hey Slugster,

Dont mind the arseholes that posted above, with responses like that they dont deserve to even hold a ****ing gun.

The arseholes above, including me were giving advice that wouldn't get the OP into trouble.

And as I have already stated the Garda have publicly stated that there is NOTHING they can do if licensed pistol holders want to carry their firearms on their person.

And you don't think that statement wasn't made for political reasons? Not something I would want to test and not something you should be advising others to test either. This apart from what possible need you would have for carrying a firearm in a holster off range.

Yes it is implied through common sense that you will only carry it going to and from the range but it doesnt state anywhere that you can only carry it going to and from the range.

It is stated on your licence that the firearm is to be used for target shooting purposes only. Anything else and you are in breach of your licence.

And forget the offensive weapons crap Sparks will you. All you seem to do here is cut and paste sections of the law big ****ing deal. If the law is so clear then why the **** do we have solicitors and barristers, hang on maybe its their job to interpret the law not yours.

I wouldn't trust my freedom or my licence to your interpretation of the law either. But why don't you make a test case of it if you're so sure?

rrpc

Rew wrote:

Banned for 1 week for circumventing the bad language filters. PM me in a week to be allowed back in.

Sorry Rew, thought that was allowed

Sparks

Mr. Gun wrote:

And as I have already stated the Garda have publicly stated that there is NOTHING they can do if licensed pistol holders want to carry their firearms on their person.

Except shoot them.
Frankly, I'd rather not have someone shot because some anonymous yahoo on this forum said that it was perfectly fine to carry a firearm in public like this was the american west in the 1800s.

Yes it is implied through common sense that you will only carry it going to and from the range but it doesnt state anywhere that you can only carry it going to and from the range.

Not on a form written by some anonymous civil servant in the 1920s it doesn't, but it does in the 1990 Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act, which you might forget easily, but which the Gardai and the Department of Justice are somewhat fond of.

If the law is so clear then why <expletive deleted> do we have solicitors and barristers, hang on maybe its their job to interpret the law not yours.

Actually, it's not their job to interpret the law, it's the job of the judges and juries. The barristers and soliciters are there to advise you and argue on your behalf.

However, when the law says "you may not do carry an offensive weapon in a public place", there's not much to interpret or argue about. And frankly, you walk down the high street with a sidearm strapped to your hip, you're not getting any support from any legitimate firearms holder - all of us will want you arrested and thrown in jail, because frankly, if you think doing that in this country is acceptable, all of us would be happier to see you barred from ever holding a certificate again.

Sparks

Rew wrote:

Banned from shooting section. When you can take a grown up attitude to posting PM me and you can come back. There are ways to make a valid point without that tone and language.

Frankly, I'd rather see the ban made permanent. I'm yet to be convinced that there's enough room in here for some yahoo to be telling people they can do something so blatently illegal and unsafe. And reading over his posting history doesn't exactly bolster his case any - telling people they can bring firearms on public transport because noone will ever check, keeping involvement with target shooting hidden away like a dirty little secret, advising against having gun safes and other stuff that was just basicly daft.

Rovi

rrpc wrote:

Rew wrote:

Banned for 1 week for circumventing the bad language filters.

Sorry Rew, thought that was allowed

Doesn't seem to be working anyhow.

rrpc

Rovi wrote:

Doesn't seem to be working anyhow.

Oh, I'm sure these things take time (like licences ). In my defence (while I can still make one) I would like to point to this thread in the feedback forum.

Rew

rrpc wrote:

Oh, I'm sure these things take time (like licences ). In my defence (while I can still make one) I would like to point to this thread in the feedback forum.

I got carried away banning that I actually fogot to do the ban! Done now.

We can all post here in a civil way without resorting to hurling abuse and bad language.

slugster

My original question was hypotethical, I have lockable transport cases for all my firearms.

I wanted to find out if this issue was regfarded as an Irish solution to an Irish problem!

I think the government should make their intentions clear, when it comes to wording a firearms licence.

Think about it, some people have firearms and related licence certificates and no further knowledge of the law other than whats printed on their cert.

bunny shooter

I would like to know why anyone would want to carry a holstered pistol, hopefully unloaded, on their person in public when most of us are trying to hide the fact we even have pistols in order not to educate the criminal element, which exists in every town and village, of the fact we have them. I have heard rumours of people actually carrying pistols in holsters around town and at some of the previous country fairs, a fact well known to local Gardai if I am to believe what i've heard. Why would anyone want to cary a pistol in a holster in public ? Even hypothetically ???????? I like to know what the logic is/would be ??????

Rew

slugster wrote:

My original question was hypotethical, I have lockable transport cases for all my firearms.

I wanted to find out if this issue was regfarded as an Irish solution to an Irish problem!

I think the government should make their intentions clear, when it comes to wording a firearms licence.

Think about it, some people have firearms and related licence certificates and no further knowledge of the law other than whats printed on their cert.

There seem to be a couple of camps in this debate.

1) Lock up the guns be safe, applauled by the idea of anything but too and from the range

2) Dont lock em up but wouldn't be walking down the street so whay would I care

3) I should be allowed do what i like coz im not going to shoot anyone unless they try hurt/kill me.

The certs are out of date for the current situation, McDowell should have updated them with the CJB, or directed who ever is responsible to do it. Then again it may already be in the pipeline with the 3 year licences, hard to say.

I think this idea of throwing solicitors and barristers at everything is crazy. For a start they make enough money woith us giving them more!! solicitors and barristers should be last resort when all else fails. For a example a sure who refuses despite all resonable approches to sign certs.

Thinking you can carry it around like a gun slinger and that solicitors and barristers are going to sort it all out is only going to lead to the loss of favourable public opinion, somone in court and the govenement rushing though firearms amendments that will be very heavy and in no ones interests.

Sparks

slugster wrote:

I think the government should make their intentions clear, when it comes to wording a firearms licence.
Think about it, some people have firearms and related licence certificates and no further knowledge of the law other than whats printed on their cert.

I agree with you slugster, and rrpc has said it in the past, our firearms cert is just laughable when compared with firearms licences abroad which are proper booklets with photo id (rather like the old form of the europass), while ours look like something someone printed up on an old dot-matrix printer - and as to the practise of the local garda scribbling stuff on it to change ammunition limits... well, you can imagine how that's received in, say, germany.

The thing is, even if the form is sub-par, the onus is still on the shooter to know the regulations that apply to him or her, even if the government is not making that task easy. Ignorance of the law is not accepted in court as a defence for breaking that law!

Rew

bunny shooter wrote:

I would like to know why anyone would want to carry a holstered pistol, hopefully unloaded, on their person in public when most of us are trying to hide the fact we even have pistols in order not to educate the criminal element, which exists in every town and village, of the fact we have them. I have heard rumours of people actually carrying pistols in holsters around town and at some of the previous country fairs, a fact well known to local Gardai if I am to believe what i've heard. Why would anyone want to cary a pistol in a holster in public ? Even hypothetically ???????? I like to know what the logic is/would be ??????

I'd like to know as well. After seeing some people who werent dressed up reenactors or airsofters walking around with pistols in drop leg holsters on Saturday at Salutew it has crossed my mind were they real. Wonder did they know speacial branch were wondering around as well...

slugster

Has any clubs or associations drawn up a code of conduct / guideline regarding this?

Sparks

Several that I know of have slugster, and it amounts to "the pistol stays in the box until you're on the firing point, and it goes into the box before it comes off the firing point". I know of at least one case where a shooter was told in rather direct language that he was not welcome on a range if he was carrying his pistol in a holster, and that he was to leave immediately and not return until it was cased. And rightly so, in my honest opinion.

slugster

Everyone on this forum knows that, but if shooters are concerned about the sport in all its forms, shouldnt we be making moves to get the message out to those who dont know. That includes all licence holders not just pistol owners.

bunny shooter

Rew wrote:

I'd like to know as well. After seeing some people who werent dressed up reenactors or airsofters walking around with pistols in drop leg holsters on Saturday at Salutew it has crossed my mind were they real. Wonder did they know speacial branch were wondering around as well...

You are joking :eek: :eek:

Nutters, and that's putting it mildly, :eek: :eek:

They should be arrested as a danger to themselves and the general public :mad:

Weapons should be confiscated and licences revoked :mad:

bunny shooter

slugster wrote:

Has any clubs or associations drawn up a code of conduct / guideline regarding this?

COMMON SENSE ?

Rew

slugster wrote:

Has any clubs or associations drawn up a code of conduct / guideline regarding this?

As regards to pistols in holsters on the range?

I know my own you can wear it in a holster with the mag out once its been cleared by the RO. The ideais that it can be carried as far as the coffee area and back instead of leaving it unattended. I find most people will leave it under the supervision of another member they trust instead of holstering.

slugster

To assume every licence holder has been bestowed with common sense, would be daft - that's why there are drink driving adverts bombarding our TV screens every day.

Rew

bunny shooter wrote:

You are joking :eek: :eek:

Nutters, and that's putting it mildly, :eek: :eek:

They should be arrested as a danger to themselves and the general public :mad:

Weapons should be confiscated and licences revoked :mad:

Well they could have been deacts, replicas or airsofts im just saying they didnt seem to be dressed as reenactors and I know most of the airsofters. There could have been a legit reason, but i did think it was odd.

Rew

slugster wrote:

To assume every licence holder has been bestowed with common sense, would be daft - that's why there are drink driving adverts bombarding our TV screens every day.

Very true and some peoples idea of common senmse is wildly differnat to others!!!

Chopperdog 2

On this topic,

I just half heard on the one o'clock news about a man being arrested in a dublin pub at the weekend for being in possession of a loaded handgun.

The gun was observed by a member of the public and the Gardai were called.

It didnt say whether there was criminal intent involved or whether it was legally held.

Hopefully it wasnt legally held, for the sake of us responsible pistol owners.

Was this you slugster...?:rolleyes:

sixpointfive

What about this, a lad i stalk with from time to time brings his 9mm stalking with him for the occasional coup de gráce, not such a bad idea as i dont like discharging a full bore at close range and the throat cut thing can be difficult in some circumstances and messy, he reckons he is ok to do this. What you reckon?

slugster

How did you guess Colombo! There was Texas Hold'em on that night, did they mention my Stetson

Sparks

sixpointfive wrote:

What about this, a lad i stalk with from time to time brings his 9mm stalking with him for the occasional coup de gráce, not such a bad idea as i dont like discharging a full bore at close range and the throat cut thing can be difficult in some circumstances and messy, he reckons he is ok to do this. What you reckon?

I reckon he's using his pistol for a purpose he wasn't issued with a cert for, and as reasonable a purpose as it is (IIRC, it's a legal requirement in Germany to carry a pistol for that task when deer stalking), it's still in violation of the Firearms Act and he could lose his cert if caught or reported for doing so.

Sparks

Chopperdog 2 wrote:

On this topic,
I just half heard on the one o'clock news about a man being arrested in a dublin pub at the weekend for being in possession of a loaded handgun.

This story maybe?

Man in court on gun charges
Monday, 27 August 2007 12:50

A 39-year-old man has appeared at Dublin District Court charged with possesion of a firearm.
John Mangan of Larkhilll Road, Whitehall, Dublin was found with a concealed handgun when gardaí arrested him at a pub in Santry on Friday night.
He made no comment to the charge or caution when arrested at Santry Garda station.
The court heard the Mr Mangan was unemployed and legal aid was granted.
He has been remanded to appear at Clover Hill Court on Friday morning at 10.30am

Rew

sixpointfive wrote:

What about this, a lad i stalk with from time to time brings his 9mm stalking with him for the occasional coup de gráce, not such a bad idea as i dont like discharging a full bore at close range and the throat cut thing can be difficult in some circumstances and messy, he reckons he is ok to do this. What you reckon?

I'v heard of this before and personally see it as a humaine way of killing a wounded deer but not sure how legal it is.

Saddlebags

Rew wrote:

I'v heard of this before and personally see it as a humaine way of killing a wounded deer but not sure how legal it is.

To the best of my (limited) knowledge, under legislation introduced by Mr Lenihan, years ago, only a rifle may be used to kill deer.
Whilst it would make sense to allow for humane dispatch, the law does not cater for it.

maglite

do any of your licences say that your gun can only be used for targets?

i'v ewalked in stores with a cased rifle, bolt with another person, is that wrong?

my licence states "authorised to have in their possession ,use and carry a....."
and i have read that when not at/on way/from sporting events the cert should accompany the rifle

Sparks

maglite wrote:

do any of your licences say that your gun can only be used for targets?

No, but all of my certificates do, by exclusion (as in, they say I can't shoot animals and you're not allowed shoot anything but targets and animals, therefore...)

i'v ewalked in stores with a cased rifle, bolt with another person, is that wrong?

Nope, as it's in the case and you've good reason to be carrying it in a public place.

my licence states "authorised to have in their possession ,use and carry a....."

Yup, but that doesn't mean "authorised to walk down the high street with this on your hip".

and i have read that when not at/on way/from sporting events the cert should accompany the rifle

The cert really should be with the rifle all the time, if only for convienence if you're asked to produce it by the club or a garda.

maglite

Sparks wrote:

No, but all of my certificates do, by exclusion (as in, they say I can't shoot animals and you're not allowed shoot anything but targets and animals, therefore...)

my CERT has subject to conditions none,, so i can shoot vermin, even though it is a target tool

Yup, but that doesn't mean "authorised to walk down the high street with this on your hip".

but where does it state that?

The cert really should be with the rifle all the time, if only for convenience if you're asked to produce it by the club or a garda.

i rarely bring my cert to fields, its fine for going to a nice college shooting ground, but short of that it will never see a field

Sparks

maglite wrote:

my CERT has subject to conditions none,, so i can shoot vermin, even though it is a target tool

Fair point.

but where does it state that?

In the firearms and offensive weapons act 1990.

i rarely bring my cert to fields, its fine for going to a nice college shooting ground, but short of that it will never see a field

Mine sees fields all the time. Fields in the middle of meath, fields in the dublin mountains, fields in the middle of offaly, fields all over the place. It sees nice indoor ranges too, but an outdoor range is, well, a field. With a dry place to lie down in, yes, but basicly, a field.

Now granted, when I say "see", what I mean is that it's in the rifle slip. But then again, you do use a rifle slip instead of throwing your rifle in the back of the jeep on the way home to bounce around the boot and get your scope un-zeroed, right?

maglite

i walk,, cant afford a car yet:(

Sparks

All the more reason to keep the rifle nice and dry in the slip so

slugster

Sparks wrote:

In the firearms and offensive weapons act 1990.

QUOTE]


Sparks can you send me the link for the section that indicates a firearm would not be permitted to be carried.

Many Thanks