Are we near those times?

Run_to_da_hills

The news headline below could possibly cover two Biblical prophesies related to the end times.

"Infectious diseases are spreading faster than ever before, the World Health Organization annual report says. With about 2.1 billion airline passengers flying each year, there is a high risk of another major epidemic such as Aids, Sars or Ebola fever" The Scotsman Friday August 24th 2007.

Jesus said that an end-time sign would be pandemic disease epidemics: "pestilences...in diverse places..." (Matthew 24:7).

The Prophet Daniel was instructed that in the last days knowledge and travel would greatly increase: "Be thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased" (Daniel 12:4)

The Mad Hatter

You think 'many shall run to and fro' means travel will increase?

Stark

Daniel was clearly referring to school soccer matches.

Run_to_da_hills

The Mad Hatter wrote:

You think 'many shall run to and fro' means travel will increase?

I would hardly expect this passage it to be interpreted as mankind just moving swiftly on foot.

The Mad Hatter

Strikes me more as an image of panic. It seems a slightly silly way of saying that people would be travelling a lot.

Stark

People have been interpreting the signs as indicating the end of the world in their lifetime for centuries. The passages you refer to could easily refer to the Renaissance for example, where an increase in knowledge came in the wake of the Black Death and people sailed the globe looking for new trade routes to India. The Roman Empire was also famed for its great knowledge, the Romans travelled the globe conquering countries and the decline of the Roman Empire was preceded by waves of plagues including smallpox, which devastated its population.

It's most likely the end time passages in the Bible were written with the Roman empire in mind in order to give hope to the young Christian community.

Run_to_da_hills

Stark wrote:

People have been interpreting the signs as indicating the end of the world in their lifetime for centuries. The passages you refer to could easily refer to the Renaissance for example, where an increase in knowledge came in the wake of the Black Death and people sailed the globe looking for new trade routes to India. The Roman Empire was also famed for its great knowledge, the Romans travelled the globe conquering countries and the decline of the Roman Empire was preceded by waves of plagues including smallpox, which devastated its population.

They didnt have computers back then in the time of the renaissance and it would have taken years for these diseases to spread around!

Stark

I missed the part about computers. Could you cite the relevant Bible passage please? Also the part about the diseases actually spreading rapidly.

Galvasean

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

They didnt have computers back then in the time of the renaissance and it would have taken years for these diseases to spread around!

I don't see what the computers have to do with the end times. The diseases did spread very quickly. A year or two isn't very long in the grand scheme of things.

Run_to_da_hills

Galvasean wrote:

I don't see what the computers have to do with the end times. The diseases did spread very quickly. A year or two isn't very long in the grand scheme of things.

Daniel did say that "Knowledge" would also increase.

Galvasean

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

Daniel did say that "Knowledge" would also increase.

Yeah but knowledge doesn't mean computers. As Stark suggested it might have been the Renaissance or the Industrial Revolution. It could be a reference to one of many things.

Run_to_da_hills

Galvasean wrote:

Yeah but knowledge doesn't mean computers. As Stark suggested it might have been the Renaissance or the Industrial Revolution. It could be a reference to one of many things.

Like sending a men to the moon.

Fanny Cradock

There is little point in trying to second guess God's moves. As hase been stated, people throughout the ages have been thoroughly convinced that it was the end of days, only to be wrong. From the perspective of the 'non-believer', it can be damaging to faith if people state something as a fact ('the world will end in 3 weeks' type thing) that later turns out to be false. We have no special knowledge or fresh insight above some chap in the 1700's who felt for sure that the 'end was nigh'.

philologos

His time will come when we least expect it. It's said that he will come like the thief in the night.

Galvasean

So, if we constantly expect it can we avert the Apocalypse?

tritium

I expect it Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, but definitely not on a Sunday, 'cause thats a day of rest right....:)

The Mad Hatter

tritium wrote:

I expect it Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, but definitely not on a Sunday, 'cause thats a day of rest right....:)

I've got Sundays covered, just in case.

*diary: Monday, work; Tuesday, work; Wednesday, work; Thursday, work; Friday, work; Saturday, work; Sunday, panic*

humanji

Jakkass wrote:

His time will come when we least expect it. It's said that he will come like the thief in the night.

Well lets hope his first stop isn't Padraig Nally's house...

PDN

tritium wrote:

but definitely not on a Sunday, 'cause thats a day of rest right....:)

Sunday a day of rest? Where do you get that from?

BrianCalgary

I do think that as our society throws God out of our lives, God leaves us to our own devices.

Part of that is the Earth starts to run down as God takes that step away. The end can come at any time.

The question has to be: Are you ready for it when it comes?

Whose side are you going to be on when the final battle happens?

Sapien

BrianCalgary wrote:

Whose side are you going to be on when the final battle happens?

That's a little B-movie melodramatic, surely? You believe there will be humans fighting alongside the Forces of Darkness in the Battle of Armageddon? I presumed one would either be saved, damned, or cowering out of sight somwhere.

Run_to_da_hills

Sapien wrote:

That's a little B-movie melodramatic, surely? You believe there will be humans fighting alongside the Forces of Darkness in the Battle of Armageddon? I presumed one would either be saved, damned, or cowering out of sight somwhere.

I would put Sarah’s dream from Terminator 2 as the most realistic movie effect of an Armageddon senario. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OInkKYOV0o

The Prophet Zachariah reveals the effects of Nuclear war when he wrote: "And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth." (Zachariah 14:12).

Jesus predicted a world in which, before His return, man's accumulated weaponry would be enough to annihilate all life on the planet. He said: "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved, but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened" (Matthew 24:21-22).

The Mad Hatter

BrianCalgary wrote:

I do think that as our society throws God out of our lives, God leaves us to our own devices.

Part of that is the Earth starts to run down as God takes that step away. The end can come at any time.

The question has to be: Are you ready for it when it comes?

Whose side are you going to be on when the final battle happens?

*shrugs* I'm a pacifist.

Smellyirishman

BrianCalgary wrote:

Whose side are you going to be on when the final battle happens?

While I have chuckled through the rest of the thread, this statement intrigues me. Can you be a little more elaborate please? Do you foresee a war waged between two forces, men, woman and children being called to arms or some sort of instant judgment, people sectioned into their various sections, hell, limbo, heaven etc...? Why do you believe this will happen? Or were you just being a little dramatic?

Fanny Cradock

Smellyirishman wrote:

While I have chuckled through the rest of the thread

Well, we are here to amuse

Good man!

BrianCalgary

Smellyirishman wrote:

While I have chuckled through the rest of the thread, this statement intrigues me. Can you be a little more elaborate please? Do you foresee a war waged between two forces, men, woman and children being called to arms or some sort of instant judgment, people sectioned into their various sections, hell, limbo, heaven etc...? Why do you believe this will happen? Or were you just being a little dramatic?

Sure. Revelation 20
7When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

So no melodrama, just prophecy.

Smellyirishman

Thanks.

JimiTime

OP. While it is a facinating subject, (for me anyway), the answer is we don't know. Certainly I can see the world heading towards the prophetic times, and the fact that the earth is starting its 'pangs of distress'. However, to say its around the corner etc, serves no purpose IMO, other than being and interesting discussion.

The Mad Hatter

BrianCalgary wrote:

Sure. Revelation 20
7When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

So no melodrama, just prophecy.

Prophecies have to be melodramatic. Otherwise people will just ignore them.

Why the change of tense half way through?

Tim Robbins

BrianCalgary wrote:

Sure. Revelation 20
7When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—

Is the four corners the reference the reason why some people used to believe the world was flat?

hallelujah

Stark wrote:

Daniel was clearly referring to school soccer matches.

Run_to_da_hills

Tim Robbins wrote:

Is the four corners the reference the reason why some people used to believe the world was flat?

The word translated "corners," as in the phrase above, is the Hebrew word, KANAPH. Kanaph is translated in a variety of ways. However, it generally means extremity.

The Bible actually teaches a spherical shape for the earth. In Isaiah 40:22 God is said to sit above “the circle of the earth” (the Hebrew word for circle can also mean a sphere).

In Luke 17:34–36 Christ's Second Coming is portrayed as occurring while some are asleep at night and others are working at daytime activities which means a rotating earth with day and night at the same time.

BrianCalgary

The Mad Hatter wrote:

Why the change of tense half way through?

Because John is reporting on what he saw which would make the report in the past tense.

Tzetze

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

The Prophet Zachariah reveals the effects of Nuclear war when he wrote: "And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth." (Zachariah 14:12).

Effects of Nuclear War? Sounds more like effects of "the consumption" to me.

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

The Bible actually teaches a spherical shape for the earth. In Isaiah 40:22 God is said to sit above “the circle of the earth” (the Hebrew word for circle can also mean a sphere).

I think it's more likely that when the ancient Hebrews referred to 'the circle of the earth' they were referring to the spherical plane surrounding the earth on which the stars all reside and the sun moves through.

How can god be said to be located in one particular place when at the same time he's everywhere. (Don't forget he can't go anywhere, because he's already everywhere - he also can't do anything because the definition of 'doing' requires an opposition, if nothing can oppose god, then he can't do anything)

Run_to_da_hills

Tzetze wrote:

Effects of Nuclear War? Sounds more like effects of "the consumption" to me.

I doubt if this is any type of infectious disease such as TB as this would rapidly spread indiscriminately around the globe through air travel, remember this is specifically against all those who fought against Jerusalem.

Tzetze

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

I doubt if this is any type of infectious disease such as TB as this would rapidly spread indiscriminately around the globe through air travel, remember this is specifically against all those who fought against Jerusalem.

A nuke that can disciminate between targets at ground zero? Technology sure has come a long way.

Run_to_da_hills

Tzetze wrote:

A nuke that can disciminate between targets at ground zero? Technology sure has come a long way.

"Iran's new hard-line president called yesterday for Israel to be "wiped off the map" the first time for many years that such a high-ranking Iranian official has called for the Jewish state's eradication". (Daily Telegraph 27/10/2005)

There are many Arab leaders like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad who would do just that if they had the chance. The IDF are perhaps one of the most ruthless defence forces on this planet and will hit back indiscriminately on anyone who threatens them and they have the power.

MooseJam

Mr Ahmadinejad will have his own nukes soon enough, then we shall see

Scofflaw

1. the call for Israel to be "wiped off the map" is a mis-translation.

2. Iran is about 15-20 years away from usable nuclear weapons, barring tech transfer from someone like China, Pakistan (or another US ally).

I've been on these forums long enough not to be surprised at the repetition of such neocon war-PR, but I am still disappointed.

regards,
Scofflaw

Run_to_da_hills

Scofflaw wrote:

2. Iran is about 15-20 years away from usable nuclear weapons, barring tech transfer from someone like China, Pakistan (or another US ally).

Or some of the stuff that went AWOL from the former Soviet Union.

MooseJam

I'd like to see the four horsemen of the apocolypse, I'm sure they would be quite a sight, I think they are only symbolic though right ? and there won't actually be any horsemen come the apocolypse

Scofflaw

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

Scofflaw wrote:

2. Iran is about 15-20 years away from usable nuclear weapons, barring tech transfer from someone like China, Pakistan (or another US ally).

Or some of the stuff that went AWOL from the former Soviet Union.

If I were disposed to worry about nuclear war in the Middle East, I would be more likely to worry about the Israeli arsenal. Iran at least is an IAEA signatory, unlike Israel.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Run_to_da_hills

Scofflaw wrote:

If I were disposed to worry about nuclear war in the Middle East, I would be more likely to worry about the Israeli arsenal. Iran at least is an IAEA signatory, unlike Israel.
cordially,Scofflaw

Israel is quite capible of cracking an egg with a sledge hammer as it did with Lebanon last year. They have over 200 warheads and thats enough.

MooseJam wrote:

I'd like to see the four horsemen of the apocolypse, I'm sure they would be quite a sight, I think they are only symbolic though right ? and there won't actually be any horsemen come the apocolypse

Back in Biblical times the quickest mode of transport was the horse, (Chariot) and boat, these were also used in battle. Anything that John mentioned in his dream would have been described in the knowledge and the language of his day. I believe he is triying to describe some of implements of modern warfare, I doubt if any modern battle would be faught on horseback!.

Possibly describing a tank
And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt (Revelation 9:17-19).


Possibly describing a Helicopter.
" And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. " And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions. " And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle. " And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months. (Revelation 9:1-11)

Galvasean

No offense Run_To-Da_Hills, but I think you may be trying a bit to hard to find similarities here.

Stark

No he's bang on the mark with these new lionhead tanks and manface helicopters that the military have these days.

and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.

The Mad Hatter

Tzetze wrote:

How can god be said to be located in one particular place when at the same time he's everywhere. (Don't forget he can't go anywhere, because he's already everywhere - he also can't do anything because the definition of 'doing' requires an opposition, if nothing can oppose god, then he can't do anything)

Hm...I think this is a justifiable image, but I can't really explain why...

I have an image of someone choosing to exist in all places, but more so in one.

Still, I imagine that 'sitting above the world' is a bit more figurative than that anyhow; more meaning 'observing', rather than literally 'sitting up there'.

I don't really understand the second point that I've quoted. Firstly, I don't see how 'doing' something requires something to oppose it, and secondly, according to Christo-Judaism/Judaeo-Christianity (whichever you like), God did have some rather major opposition in the early days, and apparently there's some pretty constant plotting going on.

MooseJam

Stark wrote:

No he's bang on the mark with these new lionhead tanks and manface helicopters that the military have these days.

and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.

just beautiful ...

PDN

Scofflaw wrote:

If I were disposed to worry about nuclear war in the Middle East, I would be more likely to worry about the Israeli arsenal. Iran at least is an IAEA signatory, unlike Israel.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Ah yes, Israel, that little bastion of aggressive secularism in the midst of a sea of militant theocracies. The one that's supported by Western theocrats and despised by Western secularists.

Funny old world, isn't it?

PDN

MooseJam wrote:

I'd like to see the four horsemen of the apocolypse, I'm sure they would be quite a sight, I think they are only symbolic though right ? and there won't actually be any horsemen come the apocolypse

Yes, the four horsemen of Revelation 6 are certainly symbolic.

Scofflaw

PDN wrote:

Ah yes, Israel, that little bastion of aggressive secularism in the midst of a sea of militant theocracies. The one that's supported by Western theocrats and despised by Western secularists.

Funny old world, isn't it?

Yes, I suppose it makes as much sense as anything else, particularly US foreign policy. Or perhaps not - it's one I've never satisfactorily been able to figure out, unless you count Israel as really the US's surrogate in the Middle East.

cordially,
Scofflaw

MooseJam

PDN wrote:

Ah yes, Israel, that little bastion of aggressive secularism in the midst of a sea of militant theocracies. The one that's supported by Western theocrats and despised by Western secularists.

Funny old world, isn't it?

I read somewhere one of the reasons the USA is such a firm suporter of Israel is because the fundamentalist Christians there view the existence of the state of Israel as a precursor to the 'second coming'