Hand against LuckyLloyd

ocallagh

S.E. €100 FO tonight.

We have recently formed the final table and are 8 or 9 handed. I am a bit hazy on the details here.

Blinds are 300/600/50.
Average stack is 27k.

Stacks
I have 50k.
Lloyd has 65k.

It's folded to Lloyd on the button who makes it 1800 to play. The SB who is an unknown calls 1800. I have ATo and call.

Flop (5800~) is all rags, with 2 clubs I can't remember, but if I was to make up a flop I would guess 8d7c2c. (I'm positive on the suits)
SB checks
I check in BB
Lloyd checks behind on the button.

Turn Ad (5800)
SB checks
I check
Lloyd bets 3600
SB folds
I call (?)

River Jd (9400)
I check
Lloyd bets 8k
Call/Fold?

phantom_lord

isn't Lloyd meant to be really nitty? i think you should just fold the river, looks like a definite vb to me.

ianmc38

I'd fold.

bottom feeder

Nial im not sure I like the call on the turn tbh, I’d probably check raise it to 11k and see if it was just a button raise or if Lloyd has the goods, if re-raised I can release it there and then, if called I’d check and depending on the bet I’d probably fold on the river as you’d still have well above the average stack. ??

Nial seems your after going this far with A10 I don’t think you should fold, what’s it another 8k to win something like 27k which will leave you with around 37k. CALL
Although im not liking it to much as Lloyd could have you well beat here.

(Jaysus just after realising something “im so spewy”)

robinlacey

i don't really like the call preflop,given that it will be a 3 way flop if you do call. i think raising is your best option,unless lloyd is likely to 4bet bluff a lot if he thinks you're squeezing i think a raise is mandatory here,i mean there's a good chance you have the best hand,and i think lloyd will fold most of his range here.

if i did call here i would definitely bet this flop,but really i prefer that sort of move in a heads up pot,the presence of the small blind complicates things.what sort of stack did he have btw?

as for the rest of the hand,unless you generally play very trickily and lloyd knows this i think its a fold,the reason being that it's unlikely that he would check the flop and then decide to bluff the turn and river,and i don't think you're ahead of much that he could be value betting with.


on a side note,is it normal for that tournament to have an average stack of 50BBs at the final table? i've only ever played a few tournaments in town but i'm certain that none of them had anywhere near that good a structure,i played a 150 in the fitz and the emporium last year as practice for vegas and both turned into a crapshoot pretty quickly.

if that is what its normally like,do they have any weekly/monthly tourneys with a bigger buyin?

it wouldn't have occured to me to play any tournaments in town but if there was a regular 250-1000 buyin one with that sort of structure i might reconsider...

ollyk1

robinlacey wrote:

i don't really like the call preflop,given that it will be a 3 way flop if you do call. i think raising is your best option,unless lloyd is likely to 4bet bluff a lot if he thinks you're squeezing i think a raise is mandatory here,i mean there's a good chance you have the best hand,and i think lloyd will fold most of his range here.

This was my first thought as well.

robinlacey wrote:

if i did call here i would definitely bet this flop,but really i prefer that sort of move in a heads up pot,the presence of the small blind complicates things.what sort of stack did he have btw?

as for the rest of the hand,unless you generally play very trickily and lloyd knows this i think its a fold,the reason being that it's unlikely that he would check the flop and then decide to bluff the turn and river,and i don't think you're ahead of much that he could be value betting with.

I'd need a read to call the river. Does it look like he's firing two barrells to represent the ace??

robinlacey wrote:

on a side note,is it normal for that tournament to have an average stack of 50BBs at the final table? i've only ever played a few tournaments in town but i'm certain that none of them had anywhere near that good a structure,i played a 150 in the fitz and the emporium last year as practice for vegas and both turned into a crapshoot pretty quickly.

if that is what its normally like,do they have any weekly/monthly tourneys with a bigger buyin?

it wouldn't have occured to me to play any tournaments in town but if there was a regular 250-1000 buyin one with that sort of structure i might reconsider...

The Monday game in the SE is very tasty Robin and it's not unusual to have this much play.

It starts at 9pm (sharp) and generally concludes at ~5.00am. The downside is it would generally only have ~45 runners and the tournie field is the strongest it gets all week on average (still plenty of value for you though).

The monthly €200 game in the SE has the same chip structure but a longer clock. Also Luke's new 300 monthly game is going to be a great structure in September and is worth considering if you are looking for some decent tournie experience.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

robinlacey

cheers lloyd/olly, i'll probably be in spain for the 500 tourney but i'll try out the 300 one in luke's and probably the emporium 200 one too.

are you going to tell us what you had lloyd?

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

ollyk1

LuckyLloyd wrote:

patience Robin. All will be revealed in due course. I 'll let this get a few non -resultament based replies first!!

Can you confirm that ocallagh got the board right for a start?? including the diamond flush and straight completing on the river

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

BuChan

the board was 762 with two clubs and one diamond, the turn and river were diamonds. slightly different since no straight completes.

ollyk1

BuChan wrote:

the board was 762 with two clubs and one diamond, the turn and river were diamonds. slightly different since no straight completes.

Also means you are beating A8 and A9 now rather than just A9. Cheers Eamon. Based on my internet read it's looking more like a call now!!

P.S. Another FT in this game Eamon?? I think you should only play one tournie a week and this game should be it!

Moneymaker

I'd make a crying call. You're getting better then 2:1 on your money.

Hitman Actual

robinlacey wrote:

i don't really like the call preflop,given that it will be a 3 way flop if you do call. i think raising is your best option,unless lloyd is likely to 4bet bluff a lot if he thinks you're squeezing i think a raise is mandatory here,i mean there's a good chance you have the best hand,and i think lloyd will fold most of his range here.

ollyk1 wrote:

This was my first thought as well.

Me too!

And I really want to call this river. I don't really know enough abouts Lloyd's style of play, though.

ollyk1

lenny_leonard wrote:

Me too!

And I really want to call this river. I don't really know enough abouts Lloyd's style of play, though.

You have to love LL's bet sizing on the river here.

30something

Lloyd has hit. Two pair? AJ? I have this as a vb but in the heat of it I make the crying call.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

eggie

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Niall has to call 8k to win 17.4k which I think is very important - he is getting a fantastic price.

not against trip 7's:D

ocallagh

@Lloyd
well, you generally get at least 2/1 on the river! In fact 2/1 is probably just about as bad as it gets in a regularly played pot.

@Robin
This hand is a bit of a leak in my game I think. I hate playing 3-bets out of position against decent players, especially with the likes of ATo. This is probably why I don't 3-bet as much from the blinds.

A few questions:
Am I 3-betting to bluff and take it down preflop? If I had 67s or something like that I may very well 3-bet, but when my hand has some decent showdown value do you think there is value in playing somewhat passive is some of these spots? Small ball, pot control, induce bluffs etc... especially when the blinds/antes are quite small in comparison to your stack. I mean, I don't mind making a call with A high if I believe it is ahead of the buttons range, so why bluff - why not value check/call? I suppose we get bluffed off the best hand a lot and we also let lesser hands outdraw us, and in ways it is not good for our Meta Game.. but I find it's a good trade off between playing bad in 3-bet pots oop

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

bops

when it's folded around to the button, who should raise here with ATC - you should reraise out of the blinds with AT - if you don't you will find the hand very difficult to play...

as played i'd call - 2.5/1...against a player with ATC who just happened to rep the A...

I'll say it again, RRPF so you don't get yourself in this mess

gl

robinlacey

ocallagh wrote:

@Lloyd
well, you generally get at least 2/1 on the river! In fact 2/1 is probably just about as bad as it gets in a regularly played pot.

@Robin
This hand is a bit of a leak in my game I think. I hate playing 3-bets out of position against decent players, especially with the likes of ATo. This is probably why I don't 3-bet as much from the blinds.

A few questions:
Am I 3-betting to bluff and take it down preflop? If I had 67s or something like that I may very well 3-bet, but when my hand has some decent showdown value do you think there is value in playing somewhat passive is some of these spots? Small ball, pot control, induce bluffs etc... especially when the blinds/antes are quite small in comparison to your stack. I mean, I don't mind making a call with A high if I believe it is ahead of the buttons range, so why bluff - why not value check/call? I suppose we get bluffed off the best hand a lot and we also let lesser hands outdraw us, and in ways it is not good for our Meta Game.. but I find it's a good trade off between playing bad in 3-bet pots oop

i suppose this is one of those funny situations where your (3) bet is sort of a value bet,in that you make it believing you probably have the best hand,but at the same time if the hand goes much further you are unlikely to be ahead.
i know i've often criticised people who turn the best hand into a bluff,but that's usually because they do it in deep stacked cash games in position. this situation is somewhat different,mainly because you are going to be out of position with a nearly unplayable hand.basically there's already a decent amount of money in there and as soon as you see a three way flop your hand turns to ****e so you may as well try and take it down now.

one point i would make about your analysis above is that i think your emphasis is off a little i think.a lot of people when they think about position say that it is bad to be out of position because you get bluffed off the best hand a lot,but they forget about the fact that its also much much harder to get value when you are ahead.this is equally,if not more important in my opinion,and being out of position with AT basically destroys the value of the hand postflop-in a cash game if i'm 200bbs deep and a player who i know is worse than me raises on the button and i have ATo,i will still almost always fold.

its the nature of being out of position that you end up paying off with a second best hand too often and also folding the best hand too often,so with this being the case you're better off not getting involved than calling. having said that i would often flat call with AT in a tournament, (only really against one player though)more so than in a cash game,but only with the intention of bluffing the flop,certainly not to try and play it for value.

as for your reluctance to 3 bet,well as i've said above if you don't want to 3bet then i think you should fold,but this looks like a good spot to 3bet.you say you don't like playing 3bet pots against decent players,but most of the time he's just going to fold so you won't have to.

i haven't played much with lloyd (only once i think,and only for about half an hour)but from his own posts here and others i get the impression that he is a solid tight player who won't be making many moves but also won't be making many mistakes.this,combined with the fact that he knows you're also a good player means he'll probably just give up here most of the time. the fact that its a final table also means he's even more likely to just do the solid thing and let it go,and people are also less inclined to get involved against big stacks when they too have a big stack.also the fact that he is solid means he probably won't do anything stupid postflop,so he's unlikely to bluff off his stack to you or pay you off if you hit a miracle flop.

one final point is that you should be aware of the danger of compounding one mistake with another. i think you reluctance to 3bet here is a mistake,but its not as bad a mistake as calling and ending up out of position with AT deep against a good player. if you don't want to 3bet then you're better off just folding.

BigCityBanker

robinlacey wrote:

one final point is that you should be aware of the danger of compounding one mistake with another. i think you reluctance to 3bet here is a mistake,but its not as bad a mistake as calling and ending up out of position with AT deep against a good player. if you don't want to 3bet then you're better off just folding.

this is sound advice and not restricted to just this situation.

Mr.Plough

robinlacey wrote:

i suppose this is one of those funny situations where your (3) bet is sort of a value bet,in that you make it believing you probably have the best hand,but at the same time if the hand goes much further you are unlikely to be ahead.
i know i've often criticised people who turn the best hand into a bluff,but that's usually because they do it in deep stacked cash games in position. this situation is somewhat different,mainly because you are going to be out of position with a nearly unplayable hand.basically there's already a decent amount of money in there and as soon as you see a three way flop your hand turns to ****e so you may as well try and take it down now.

one point i would make about your analysis above is that i think your emphasis is off a little i think.a lot of people when they think about position say that it is bad to be out of position because you get bluffed off the best hand a lot,but they forget about the fact that its also much much harder to get value when you are ahead.this is equally,if not more important in my opinion,and being out of position with AT basically destroys the value of the hand postflop-in a cash game if i'm 200bbs deep and a player who i know is worse than me raises on the button and i have ATo,i will still almost always fold.

its the nature of being out of position that you end up paying off with a second best hand too often and also folding the best hand too often,so with this being the case you're better off not getting involved than calling. having said that i would often flat call with AT in a tournament, (only really against one player though)more so than in a cash game,but only with the intention of bluffing the flop,certainly not to try and play it for value.

as for your reluctance to 3 bet,well as i've said above if you don't want to 3bet then i think you should fold,but this looks like a good spot to 3bet.you say you don't like playing 3bet pots against decent players,but most of the time he's just going to fold so you won't have to.

i haven't played much with lloyd (only once i think,and only for about half an hour)but from his own posts here and others i get the impression that he is a solid tight player who won't be making many moves but also won't be making many mistakes.this,combined with the fact that he knows you're also a good player means he'll probably just give up here most of the time. the fact that its a final table also means he's even more likely to just do the solid thing and let it go,and people are also less inclined to get involved against big stacks when they too have a big stack.also the fact that he is solid means he probably won't do anything stupid postflop,so he's unlikely to bluff off his stack to you or pay you off if you hit a miracle flop.

one final point is that you should be aware of the danger of compounding one mistake with another. i think you reluctance to 3bet here is a mistake,but its not as bad a mistake as calling and ending up out of position with AT deep against a good player. if you don't want to 3bet then you're better off just folding.

good post that

cardshark202

My first thought when I saw this was that you should be 3betting preflop, can't believe you didn't tbh. I prefer folding to calling here.

Captain Tom

i prefer a 3b p/f than calling.

as played i fold. we're obviously well behind his v/betting range and according to himself he's a nit so he's probably not bluffing much. also 8k into a 13k pot kinda looks like he wants a call.

ditpoker

ugh... not nice... lloyd could show up with the nuts or ten high here. (if you get it wrong you end up giving him all your stack in the jackpot 50 game, but if you get it right yu take all his stack, its fun to play with lloyd!)

lloyd seems paryicularly giddy about the maths in this post, so im guessing he was trying to make his bet look like a vlaue bluff and you folded to his ten high? or he has the stone colds? i hate lloyd.

Captain Tom

ditpoker wrote:

ugh... not nice... lloyd could show up with the nuts or ten high here

i thought he was meant to be really nitty?

ocallagh

Great post Robin.

I don't mind playing button v blind battles out of position, and generally pick up a lot of pots from over aggresive button stealers and I definitely think there is value there. Generally I will only play back at bad players though... so I suppose I don't like turning something like ATo into a bluff against bad players when I have a large edge over them post flop. Against decent players like Lloyd your post makes 100% sense to me. We are out of position, and we have no edge post flop.

Expanding on the above a bit.

If we assume the button is a decent player and our edge post flop is non-existent, we have narrowed our options down to 3-bet or fold. Forget about value raising etc, it is bluff or fold basically. We may as well have 93o here. Now the factors that determine if we 3-bet or not is the amount of money in the pot and the button's range. Is it this simple? I absolutely hate being a predictable poker player. I much prefer to mx up my game with some random 3-bets, odd calls preflop etc. I prefer playing on the flop/turn, and while some plays take away from the EV of a particular hand, it makes a lot of sense to me not to auto 3-bet or fold in this situation over and over again against good players. I suppose your response is the standard line we should take, and deviating slightly from this is fine for meta game? Would you agree?

MrPillowTalk

bottom feeder wrote:

Nial im not sure I like the call on the turn tbh, I’d probably check raise it to 11k and see if it was just a button raise or if Lloyd has the goods, if re-raised I can release it there and then, if called I’d check and depending on the bet I’d probably fold on the river as you’d still have well above the average stack. ??

This would be a pretty poor play Wes and one of the most regular mistakes I see players make. CR to 11k ill stop any hand we beat putting in a penny more than the 3.5k allready bet. Flat calling the turn lets us get to showdown for nearly the same price and we (1) give a worse hand the chance to bluff again (2) control the size of the pot if we have the worst hand and (3) will slow down some hands that have us beat like better lone aces and small 2 pairs and will probably stop these hands taking us to value town on the end. If I wasnt sure the strength of my hand and wanted to find out where I was then leading the turn would be a better option than cr'ing, allthough not as good an option as check calling imo, but cr'ing basically is never an option here I reckon.

As others have stated I think you need to raise pre flop here, once called I would definately lead the flop when the sb checks as you will get Lloyd to fold out Ax unless youve been at it a bit.

As for calling on the end, I would like to say fold but the bet sizing stinks a bit, its allmost too small to be a value bet, it looks like a "if I bet really small here he will think I am milking and fold" type of bet that sometimes works against competent players. I dont hate calling here and I dont hate folding.

Ste05

MrPillowTalk wrote:

I dont hate calling here and I dont hate folding.

Same here, I think Lloyd will fire the double barrel here enough to make it an OK call but the turn call must have scared him slightly yet he still bets, certainly a tricky spot.

And as has been said by others I'd also have raised PF here.

DeVore

I would 3-bet pf since when its folded around to the button, inside Lloyd's (and most player's) brain there is the Stealing Song playing and just about any two cards will be fine.

If he has AK/AQ he almost certainly would have c-bet in position. In fact, I dont like that he *didnt* because it smells a bit of slowplaying. Either way, I call on the river and either he has a set or you are good imho.

DeV.

bottom feeder

MrPillowTalk wrote:

This would be a pretty poor play Wes and one of the most regular mistakes I see players make. CR to 11k ill stop any hand we beat putting in a penny more than the 3.5k allready bet. Flat calling the turn lets us get to showdown for nearly the same price and we (1) give a worse hand the chance to bluff again (2) control the size of the pot if we have the worst hand and (3) will slow down some hands that have us beat like better lone aces and small 2 pairs and will probably stop these hands taking us to value town on the end. If I wasnt sure the strength of my hand and wanted to find out where I was then leading the turn would be a better option than cr'ing, allthough not as good an option as check calling imo, but cr'ing basically is never an option here I reckon.

As others have stated I think you need to raise pre flop here, once called I would definately lead the flop when the sb checks as you will get Lloyd to fold out Ax unless youve been at it a bit.

As for calling on the end, I would like to say fold but the bet sizing stinks a bit, its allmost too small to be a value bet, it looks like a "if I bet really small here he will think I am milking and fold" type of bet that sometimes works against competent players. I dont hate calling here and I dont hate folding.

Notes taken Eoin, wp

Bandana boy

I think a river bet there is never a bluff
the size makes it really hard to fold though
In real life i think i call and then berate myself for 5 mins after that i should know better

mrflash

Well its quite simple to me, as played its time to give it up, unless you have a read that tells you otherwise. there is no point trying to base your call based on mathematical reasoning. i see the check on the flop by the original raiser as weak and i think you should have reraised the turn. you had to find out where you were right there, as it looks now he has hit the river with a flush. just based on the betting that is how i would read it, semi-bluff on turn and the real deal bet on the river.

Lazare

Everyone keeps going on about Lloyd being such a nit and so on, but we're forgetting the fact that he has 100BB at a tournament final table. He is well capable of having complete air here especially against a thinking player like Niall. The bet looks like it wants a caller, therefore I call.

Ste05

Mr. PT explained pretty well why you shouldn't CR the turn, it's quite a basic point TBH.

bottom feeder

Ste05 wrote:

Mr. PT explained pretty well why you shouldn't CR the turn, it's quite a basic point TBH.

Obviously it wasn't...:rolleyes:

kryogen

re raise or fold pre flop, call is not an option as far as im concerned....

getting 2.5/1 on the river, looks like a call, but think about what hands he has that we beat, why is he firing again? it smells settish to me! checking of the flop is horrible and then betting the ace, its as if he is hoping that since he got 2 callers one has an ace and will be forced to call down with a value bet on river.

i wouldnt have got into this situation myself given llyods reputation! id have re raised pre flop or folded.. if your not comfortable 3 betting pre flop oop then just fold, i dont think you can flat call here, it gets you in stupid situations like this one!

find out if your hand is good pre flop, if llyod calls your re raise re evaluate the flop, but really unless he hits his set he will fold most of the small pairs he called with assuming you have real strength.

if llyod comes over the top of you again pre flop you know exactly where you are and its much cheaper!!!

mrflash

kryogen wrote:

re raise or fold pre flop, call is not an option as far as im concerned....

getting 2.5/1 on the river, looks like a call, but think about what hands he has that we beat, why is he firing again? it smells settish to me! checking of the flop is horrible and then betting the ace, its as if he is hoping that since he got 2 callers one has an ace and will be forced to call down with a value bet on river.

i wouldnt have got into this situation myself given llyods reputation! id have re raised pre flop or folded.. if your not comfortable 3 betting pre flop oop then just fold, i dont think you can flat call here, it gets you in stupid situations like this one!

find out if your hand is good pre flop, if llyod calls your re raise re evaluate the flop, but really unless he hits his set he will fold most of the small pairs he called with assuming you have real strength.

if llyod comes over the top of you again pre flop you know exactly where you are and its much cheaper!!!

i cannot see a set here, there were two clubs on the flop, and any player is going to bet out on a set in that situation. a three way pot and the original raiser checks from the button. its just too weak. the ace on the turn which is also a diamond, leaves us with two possible flush draws, and as the original raiser and on the button, lloyd is entitled to think he can represent this ace with a second check from both opponents. but having read a lot of posts by the lucky one, i dont see him representing this without any back up. its a perfect move by him, if he is on a semi, he can take it down here, and if he gets a caller he still can hit on the river, but i dont see a second barrel on the river against a caller with the rep of ocallagh, i dont think he is firing without the nuts. if he was not on a flush draw on the turn, he would be wary of the opponent hitting it on the river.
if there is a set here it has been badly played, leaving oneself open to two flush draws.
the other thing is that ocallagh should have check raised the turn, its a very weak play by him which is not usual. there might be a possibility that both these players are reading too many of each others postings and that a level of respect for each other from boards has manifested itself into weak table play between both of them.

ditpoker

lloyd has somehow established an image amonsgt boardsters as a nit...

LLOYD IS NOT A NIT!
LLOYD IS NOT A NIT!
LLOYD IS NOT A NIT!
LLOYD IS NOT A NIT!
LLOYD IS NOT A NIT!
LLOYD IS NOT A NIT!
LLOYD IS MICHAEL JACKSON'S ILLEGITIMATE SON!!!
LLOYD IS NOT A NIT!
LLOYD IS NOT A NIT!
LLOYD IS NOT A NIT!

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

MrPillowTalk

With further thought I think I allways call.

Cant see Lloyd betting an ace on the end, cant see him turning up with a set given the texture of the flop, Im dubious as to wheither or not Lloyd will bet two pair here as Niall could have some sort of draw that gets there on the end.

Reckon Lloyd has air or the backdoor flush, so must call given the price.

mrflash

ok, we have been left hanging for too long, what was the outcome?

Macspower

Have to say if Lloyd has air I really like the play... rep the A and and the river stinks of a value bet......

I call the river because Lloyd is well cabable of the above play... I'd expect to be behind a good bit though...

Preflop is questionable but it's already been covered....

Mac

nicnicnic

I make it 30k on the river

ocallagh

Lloyds check on the flop worried me. If he had some sort of rubbish like Q5o etc I was positive he'd use a cbet as the most likely means of taking the pot down after both the SB and I check into him. I had no idea what he had at this stage, but seeming as it was his first positional raise I put him on a nitty range which missed the flop, ie: KJ+, AX+.

Now the ace comes on the turn I am unsure if I am ahead, but I defo don't bet here. I c/call the 3600 feeling pretty confident I will get to a cheapish showdown and also feeling pretty good about my hand. I'm positive if Lloyd has Ax he'll check behind on the river unless of course he has somehting like AK or AJ/A6/A7 giving him two pair on the turn in which case he will value bet.

My call on the turn has to worry him slightly I thought. I have an ace 90% of the time here. In fact,my hand was pretty transparent and might have made it easy to play against. The river completed a backdoor flush, but I never have a flush draw here unless its some sort of combo pair+flush draw or I'm floating the turn with the draw in which case I definitely lead out the river. Anyway, I felt my hand was pretty trans[parent and that he could easily be value betting with any ace that beats me, A6/A7/AJ/AQ/AK so I folded.

He showed Q5o, wp sir!

mrflash

ocallagh wrote:

Lloyds check on the flop worried me. If he had some sort of rubbish like Q5o etc I was positive he'd use a cbet as the most likely means of taking the pot down after both the SB and I check into him. I had no idea what he had at this stage, but seeming as it was his first positional raise I put him on a nitty range which missed the flop, ie: KJ+, AX+.

Now the ace comes on the turn I am unsure if I am ahead, but I defo don't bet here. I c/call the 3600 feeling pretty confident I will get to a cheapish showdown and also feeling pretty good about my hand. I'm positive if Lloyd has Ax he'll check behind on the river unless of course he has somehting like AK or AJ/A6/A7 giving him two pair on the turn in which case he will value bet.

My call on the turn has to worry him slightly I thought. I have an ace 90% of the time here. In fact,my hand was pretty transparent and might have made it easy to play against. The river completed a backdoor flush, but I never have a flush draw here unless its some sort of combo pair+flush draw or I'm floating the turn with the draw in which case I definitely lead out the river. Anyway, I felt my hand was pretty trans[parent and that he could easily be value betting with any ace that beats me, A6/A7/AJ/AQ/AK so I folded.

He showed Q5o, wp sir!

horrible to see it i know, but yes, and excellent play sir.

BuChan

lol results revealed already! i thought you'd let it go a while longer considering the side-bet you two had. this was a good hand and a nice bet from lloyd, it made me realize what a station i am. do you remember what i asked you niall, lol "what did you have, 67?".... 3rd pair, can't be laying that down i think lloyd's nitty image is way overblown, we're on too you sir!

MrPillowTalk

So when do I get my prize?