Why the Jews?

Mick86

brianthebard wrote:

Isn't that half a line from Ulysses? The second part is "Because we never let them in".

The presence of the Briscoes and the Shatters would seem to give the lie to Joyce's statement.

McArmalite

brianthebard wrote:

Isn't that half a line from Ulysses? The second part is "Because we never let them in".

Dunno, Joyce was a writer and a personality I haven't the slightest interest in. Daniel O’Connell supported the repeal of discrimmatory legislation against Jewish people saying "Ireland has claims on your ancient race, it is the only country that I know of unsullied by any one act of persecution of the Jews".

Mick86 wrote:

The presence of the Briscoes and the Shatters would seem to give the lie to Joyce's statement.

Also Mervyn Taylor former Labour Party TD and Gerald Goldberg a former Lord Mayor of Cork. Apart from the disgraceful Limerick boycott in 1904, although a very small community but have been here many centruies, they seemed to suffer none of the biogtry as they encountered elsewhere.

Snickers Man

ejmaztec wrote:

I think that the Nazis hatred of the Jews stems from their hatred of the communists. Many high-ranking Soviet communists were either Jewish or had Jewish ancestry.

It is certainly the case that many of the leading Bolsheviks were Jewish. Eg Kamenev, Zinoviev and of course Trotsky himself.

No less than in Ireland, the intellectual paths that the Jewish people, typically in the Pale of Settlement in the Russian Empire, took to achieve liberation from the oppression to which they were subjected included both Nationalist and Socialist options.

The Zionists believed that as Jews they would always be persecuted unless they had their own state, where their Jewishness would be irrelevant. Others took the socialist route arguing that Jewish and Christian workers and peasants were being divided and ruled by capitalists, or even feudalists in 19th century Russia and so they had to unite the working class in a socialist secular revolution.

Of course, each ideology influenced the other. So it is no coincidence that many leading Bolsheviks were Jewish and that many leading Zionists were socialist. The kibbutzim were the mainstay of Israel's elite until recent decades and I defy anyone to produce a picture of an Israeli Prime minister before the right winger Begin who regularly wore a tie. I think the only photo of Ben Gurion so attired was during the declaration of the State of Israel, which was considered a momentous enough event to put standard socialist dress sense to one side.

Whether that was the reason the Nazis took it out on the Jews I am not sure. I think they had a more simple and basic "unite the Volk against a common identifiable scapegoat for all its ills" motivation.

axer

lyonsy wrote:

Why was it that the jews were the target of the holocaust? Surely it wasn't due to hitlers views alone, there must have been a strong resentment already in existance among the german people before the nazis came to power that allowed it to go on. Does anyone know a specific reason for this? Some people have suggested to me that the Jews owned a lot of businesses, banks etc. in germany in the 30s at a time when the average german person had little leading to people resenting them, but i find this hard to believe. i'm also aware that massaccres of jews were carried out by polish and russians during WW2, so hatred of the Jews wasn't just confined to nazis... why did europe hate the jews??

Basically the Jews were good at looking after their money which meant they were generally more wealthy and owned many businesses as a result. The German people were going through a bad time and many were jealous of the Jews as they were not taking the brunt like the rest of the Germans. TBH I think the Jews are an easy group to target if you are that way inclined.

skelliser

its simple the jews are the chosen ones, gods chosen people,they have always got the short end of the stick from ancient egypt to today
and in relation to a mustly christian europe they helped/collabarated in crucifiying jesus christ. afterall jesus was a jew and was betrayed by his own kind so ppl would have been weary of them ever since

those are the seeds of doubt in peoples minds people in positions of power ie, church,kings etc need to find easy scapegoaths for there own domestic problems

brianthebard

I don't think that's accurate skelliser, Hitler never invoked God when trying to convince people to get rid of the Jews.

valen

Snickers Man wrote:

Jews have been persecuted for centuries off and on in a variety of countries both Christian, secular and Muslim because they offer to cynical purveyors of real-politik the vital attribute of being a distinguishable, definable and largely separate minority.

Finally, someone that actually understood what it was about.

In the earlier medieval period, usury (money-lending) was forbidden to Christians, so Jews filled the gap. It was a dangerous game; money was good, but at any time the upper class (who borrowed heavily) could decide not to pay the lender back & have them thrown out.

But by the 1700s, it was certainly nothing to do with money anymore...the big European banks were run by Christians like the Medici. Resentment was now fuelled by the fact that Jews actively refused to assimilate into their adopted countries. They stood out, just as rulers had better understanding of the power of whipping the mob up against external problems to avoid civil unrest at home.

Is it that impossible to imagine that if a handful of Jews could have Christ killed, the whole race wasn't able to curdle milk, use magic to get ahead in business, kidnap children, etc. etc. ?

John