Paying for the sins of an ex

LegacyUser

Long time lurker, first time poster and have been debating posting this for about a week but would like to hear the views of others on my situation. Apologies for the lenght of the post.

Met a girl on holidays at the start of the year, really hit it off. I'll call her Ms. A. The problem was that she lived at one end of the coutry and i lived at the other. Both of us were completely aware that this would be an issue but we decided to give it a go.

On the 2nd weekend she came down to visit I had 4 or 5 friends over on the Friday night before she came down. One friend of mine, lets call her Ms. B, stayed over as she had moved into a new house a good bit away from me and would have cost a fair chunk of change in a taxi to get home. She stayed in my bed (both of us fully dressed), got up the next morning and went home. I thought nothing of it for a number of reasons
1. It was completely innocent, just 2 people sharing a bed,
2. I’ve known her since I was 4 (lived on my road, went to playschool together)
3. it had happened many times before
4. have never kissed or anything like that, even in the hormone fuelled teenage years, she’s more like a sibling (and before you ask about how she feels about me its exactly the same – it’s a running joke in the group)

Anyway, that day Ms. A arrived down to visit. We headed into town for a few afternoon pints and were outside having a smoke, general chit chat and she asked me about the night before. Told her about Ms B staying over and she said “I hope she didn’t stay in your bed” in a jokey way. Told her that she did (I had nothing to hide/had done nothing wrong/wouldn’t lie about it) and carried on with the conversation. Had a great weekend with her, all good and she left on the Sunday.

Got a phone call on the Monday from Ms A telling me that she was so hurt by what I did on the Friday with Ms B, how if she had called in and seen her there she would have left straight away etc etc. I explained to her about it (1-4 above), said I didn’t realise it would upset he so much, won’t happen again, very sorry etc etc. All seemed right with the world again and we had gotten over our first argument.

Fast forward to 5 mths later, still seeing Ms A, talk of her moving to where I live for us to be together, long term future plans and all that.

Then about 2 weeks ago she starts becoming a bit distant, only communicating by txt, no phone calls anymore (would have chatted twice a day) and when she comes down the following weekend she’s distant again. We sit down for a chat (which I was expecting – I knew something was up) and she tells me its not working and its over. Says the distance is too much for her and she can’t move down (doesn’t want to leave parents behind).

I offer to move to where she lives and then the real reason comes out – She has an image in her head of what went on that Friday with Ms B and she just can’t let go of it and its been eating away at her all during her relationship. It had been mentioned a couple of time during the 5 mths but after my apology and my subsequent actions (Ms B never stayed again) I thought she had let go of it. Turns out she was cheated on by one of her exes when she caught him in bed with someone else. I think she has transplanted my head and Ms. Bs head onto the image in her mind from that incident. Effectively she was saying I cheated on her with Ms B and never accepted my word that nothing happened.

Needless to say I was pretty shocked that I was being dumped for something I didn’t do and didn’t do a very good job of communicating my views on the situation while she was sitting in front of me. To be honest I was reeling from that sucker punch. She left and went home and took my lack of communication to be a signal that I wasn’t really into the whole relationship in the first place. Nothing can be further from the truth. Have been in touch a few times but she is insists that her mind is made up and its over.

Now it’s a week later and I’m heartbroken and pretty angry about it. If I had cheated then I would hold my hands up and respect her decision. But I haven’t done anything wrong and I’m being punished for a crime that a prior BF committed. I'm also pretty shocked how it went sour so quickly and i was never given a chance to try and save the relationship - if it was a job i'd be calling it unfair dismissal!

Even after it all, i still love her and would do anything to have her back but on reading the above it would seem that there’s not much I can do but i want to at least try to get back with her.

Any suggestions/observations/advice would be greatly appreciated.

rubyred

Didn't you have a sofa??? You say that you and Ms. B are like siblings. If my brother stayed over and there was only my bed left, then one of us would have the bed and the other the sofa/floor etc. You don't share a bed with a sibling of the opposite sex when you are not kids (or at least no one I know does).

If my bf slept in the same bed as another girl that he didn't fancy and both we fully clothes I'd still box his head off. It just something that you don't do when you are in a relationship.

Femelade

why dont you just send her what you wrote there.
look , if she isnt going to believe you then there is nothing you can do about it. It will be her loss in the long run if she is going to let someone like you , who loves her get away because of what an ex did to her.

The_Conductor

rubyred wrote:

Didn't you have a sofa??? You say that you and Ms. B are like siblings. If my brother stayed over and there was only my bed left, then one of us would have the bed and the other the sofa/floor etc. You don't share a bed with a sibling of the opposite sex when you are not kids (or at least no one I know does).

If my bf slept in the same bed as another girl that he didn't fancy and both we fully clothes I'd still box his head off. It just something that you don't do when you are in a relationship.

I agree totally with Rubyred. I can see exactly where your ex is coming from- I would not be one little bit happy if my SO stayed in the same bed as another guy, irrespective of whether they were clothed or not, and whether or not anything occurred.

If my little sister comes to visit- she sleeps on the couch or in another room, most certainly NOT in my bed with me there.

I'm sorry but I think its bizzare that you think its fine to have your childhood friend spending the night in your bed with you- irrespective of whether you were clothed or not. Whose idea was it? Why? Do you invite other people to do likewise? Its a strange strange situation- and I am not one little bit surprised that your ex had a problem with it.

Your explanations- while perfectly reasonable to you- seem strange and would not ring true for most people. It'll take a lot more than points 1 through to 4 to get you off the hook with your ex. Personally I don't think you have any right to be angry at the situation- try to view the situation from someone elses eyes- what on earth was another girl doing in your bed? She was clothed- so what- she shouldn't have been there, full stop......

seamus

rubyred wrote:

Didn't you have a sofa??? You say that you and Ms. B are like siblings. If my brother stayed over and there was only my bed left, then one of us would have the bed and the other the sofa/floor etc. You don't share a bed with a sibling of the opposite sex when you are not kids (or at least no one I know does).

Plenty of people would. It's rare that the situation would arise, but assuming that you're that comfortable with eachother and the couch isn't overly comfy, I don't necessarily see a problem with it.

If my bf slept in the same bed as another girl that he didn't fancy and both we fully clothes I'd still box his head off. It just something that you don't do when you are in a relationship.

Why not though? There's nothing inherently wrong with it, particularly where the people involved are just good mates.

I think the problem here is that the other half was going to have a problem with this no matter what the OP said to her. She has a "thing" about it, and if he'd known then he wouldn't have done it. But there's nothing he can do about it now.

In her mind, he has cheated. I don't think it's possible to reverse that decision - she has decided in her head, that he has committed some form of infidelity, regardless of what did or didn't happen that night. Perhaps she was always "suspicious" of the OP's relationship with Mrs. B, and this just made it worse. She has clearly agonised over it for a long time, attempted to logically banish the idea from her head, but she can't let it go. So she's decided that a clean break is the only way.

I would sympathise and although I've never been cheated on, I can imagine it's something that can be a fatal poison to a relationship, even if it has seemingly been resolved by both parties.

Dublinstiofán

Well stupid move sinless, lesson learned on your part now though, you won't do it again in a hurry!

Personally i think that it's an excuse by Ms A to get rid of you for one reason or another. I think it's the long distance thing that she can't handle and instead of telling you the truth:
She has decided to try the 'not to hurt you approach' but in the process has to make it out to have been your fault for something that happend months ago (that she had quite clearly forgotten about) Probably to make herself feel better

Sounds suspicious to me that if you guys were fine for five months after said incident and all of a sudden as your meant to be moving in together its brought up again, committment issues on her part maybe?

I don't know good luck with it anyway.

Talliesin

Imagine you got home from a holiday to find that your kitchen floor was flooded with water.

Upon further investigation you see that your freezer had stopped working and had been melting ice for some time. Your hallway carpet is going to need replacing and all of the food in the freezer will need to be chucked.

All in all, pretty bad. Now, would you say you were being punished by the freezer?

Of course not. It's inanimate and not capable of deciding to punish you. As crappy as it is, it's not a punishment.

People are capable of punishing other people, but not everything we do that has a negative effect upon another person is a punishment. Sometimes it's just crappy.

You had a practice that is slightly unusual in our culture (unfortunately, sharing a bed with a friend is lovely) but far from unheard of and generally pretty nice. Still, it managed to hit upon your girlfriend's issues in a way that hurt her. Crappy for her, but not a punishment.

She had issues that makes her conflate your sharing a bed with someone with her ex cheating on her that even though she knows they are irrational (which alas probably made her dwell on it rather than be prepared to vocalise something she knew was irrational and hence labelled to herself as "silly") and this led to her distrusting you. Again, crappy but not punishment.

The irrational is important. You can't sue for unfair dismissal because the analogy with a job falls down at the point of hiring - we don't compare CVs when choosing who to fall in love with (though people essentially do that when choosing who to date).

Some things in life are just crappy. That doesn't make it suck any less I'm afraid, and you can't guarantee you won't hit of someone's issues unless you know about them (maybe next time you're in a romantic relationship you'll take care to not share beds with friends and then only after getting a tattoo of a spider find out your girlfriend has extreme arachnaphobia and even getting the tattoo removed won't get the image of a spider crawling up your arm out of her head).

Just chalk it up and move on.

LegacyUser

'Thanks for the replies so far, they are giving me a fresh perspective on it.

Rubyred/smccarrick/Dublinstiofan – I guess you are right about it being strange having another person share the bed but its something that has always gone on. I’m not talking every week but on occasion. Your reaction, however, has opened my eyes to the fact that not all groups of mates do the same – I just assumed that it went on (obviously different groups have different norms etc).

I suppose I am at fault for not seeing it through her eyes at first instance and I do accept that I should get a box around the ears for it but I don’t think its something that should kill off an otherwise great relationship.

Maybe I should just chalk it and move on'

LegacyUser

You made two mistakes, sharing your bed with someone who isn't your girlfriend and then feeling the need to tell her about it. What were you thinking?!!

jellie

Her ex has left her with major trust issues. And while thats not your fault if she cant trust you then I cant see a way the relationship would work.

maybe you should give her some space. sometimes thats all we need to see how much someone means to us. but then again, it might just be taken as you not caring..

As youve said it might be better to chalk it up to experience, and just not sleep in the bed with your friend the next time youre in a relationship.

MrBaseball

To be honest it sounds like you're paying for your own extreme naivity(or stupidity). A girl doesn't have to have massive trust issues to have a problem with her boyfriend sleeping in a bed with some other woman. I actually find it funny that you seem surprised that it's an issue. Sure, the girl is like a sister to you but, a:most guys don't sleep in a bed with their sister and b:this girl is in fact not your sister or the same as one anyway.

Deediddums

To be fair his "naivety" shows how unrealistic it is to him that anything would have happened with the friend. I think the OP's girlfriend and a number of other posters are making a mountain out of a molehill on this one.He didn't think it would be an issue because any sort of impropriety was inconceivable to him. I feel sorry for the guy because I don't think he actually has done anything worng. But if the girl has trust issues and it['s a long distance relationship maybe he'll be better off without the hassle in the long run

Talliesin

Sin_less wrote:

I suppose I am at fault for not seeing it through her eyes at first instance and I do accept that I should get a box around the ears for it but I don’t think its something that should kill off an otherwise great relationship.

Why would you have looked for it though, you hadn't copped how someone else would view something very differently to you (a helpful guide follows). An error, but more a "d'oh" error than a blame-worthy one. You can't predict what everyone's issues are going to be.

The risks of something being an issue does increase proportionally to how well you can imagine a Carry-On film character saying it in a suggestive tone:

So. Picture Sid James leering suggestively while he says the following.

"Having a quiet drink in the pub together". Low innuendo quotient, low risk.
"Cooking together". Medium innuendo quotient, medium risk.
"In bed together". Oh matron!

All three can be innocent, all three can trigger paranoia in someone, but the risks increase proportionately to the size of Sid James' grin.

Doesn't mean you can't do anything that reaches the "oh matron" level of innuendo, just means that those are things where you should find out how anyone else involved (i.e. your partner and your friend's partner) feels.

MrBaseball

Deediddums wrote:

To be fair his "naivety" shows how unrealistic it is to him that anything would have happened with the friend. I think the OP's girlfriend and a number of other posters are making a mountain out of a molehill on this one.He didn't think it would be an issue because any sort of impropriety was inconceivable to him. I feel sorry for the guy because I don't think he actually has done anything worng. But if the girl has trust issues and it


In a relationship there are some things that any sane person should know would not go down well with their other half. One of those things is sleeping in the same bed as a member of the opposite sex.

vorbis

tbh I doubt its actually about the Ms B. 5 months went by!! Most women, even t he ones who dredge up old incidents, would bring up the issue within 5 months if it was bothering them that much. I'd say she's after meeting someone a bit closer to home. Or like someone else said wants to end the relationship but is too chicken to do it properly.

LegacyUser

'

vorbis wrote:

tbh I doubt its actually about the Ms B. 5 months went by!! Most women, even t he ones who dredge up old incidents, would bring up the issue within 5 months if it was bothering them that much. I'd say she's after meeting someone a bit closer to home. Or like someone else said wants to end the relationship but is too chicken to do it properly.

It had been brought up a few times over the 5 mths, with me apologising again and followed by assurances on her part that she believed me/was over it.

Maybe she did want someone closer to home but i had offered to move and was deadly serious when i made the offer.'

Talliesin

MrBaseball wrote:

In a relationship there are some things that any sane person should know would not go down well with their other half. One of those things is sleeping in the same bed as a member of the opposite sex.

Plenty of people would be fine with it.

vorbis wrote:

tbh I doubt its actually about the Ms B. 5 months went by!!

Not that hard to believe. She believes the OPs story, but it triggered issues for her. She tells herself she's being "silly", since she does believe the OP, but the issues build and build inside her. The fact that one part of her mind knows the OP didn't do anything inappropriate means that whenever she dwells on it she feels she can't talk about it to the OP because then she'll sound like she's blaming him for something that isn't his fault. Eventually the part that's dwelling on the idea gets too far gone, and hence the disaster that started this thread.

meglome

I have a friend for over ten years and we have shared a bed many times. We have travelled together as well. She's a very attractive girl but I'm not interested in her sexually and she feels the same way about me. We have never had any sexual contact of any kind, sober or drunk. I have stopped doing it as I don't want to have my girlfriend think badly of the situation. If I stay in her place her sofa is not very comfortable and I never sleep much so it is tempting to sleep in her bed. I fully understand why people would think this is weird but it's completely innocent. To be honest we'd never even discussed it until another friend of mine mentioned that she wouldn't like it one tiny bit so it gave me pause for thought. The OP has done nothing wrong and it seems very harsh to be dumped for this. Like others I wonder is this just an excuse.

The_Conductor

Sin_less wrote:

It had been brought up a few times over the 5 mths, with me apologising again and followed by assurances on her part that she believed me/was over it.

If it kept coming up again and again, over the 5 months- obviously while she may have believed you- she most certainly was not over it.

Personally I do not think that ending the relationship was an excuse on her part- I think that she had a fundamental problem in accepting you sleeping in the same bed as a purely platonic friend. You in turn seem to have problems accepting that it simply is not the done thing for lots of people- sure some people find it entirely normal- but others find it abhorent.

If you are mad about her- irrespective of what has been said, the situation is not irretrievable- it will take a lot of effort on the parts of both people- but there is no reason that it couldn't be made work.

S.

Talliesin

smccarrick wrote:

You in turn seem to have problems accepting that it simply is not the done thing for lots of people

He changed his behaviour. He even apologised. What exactly could he do beyond that?

LegacyUser

rubyred wrote:

Didn't you have a sofa??? You say that you and Ms. B are like siblings. If my brother stayed over and there was only my bed left, then one of us would have the bed and the other the sofa/floor etc. You don't share a bed with a sibling of the opposite sex when you are not kids (or at least no one I know does).

Em, I do. If you live in a close family you'd find it's normal.

Hell if you ever go to Croatia with your mates you'll find that the only affordable accommodation is a shared double bed in a family house, I spend 2 weeks sleeping beside my mates of both sexes.

Sharing a bed does not entail ANYTHING sexual.

OP - you have done nothing wrong.

The_Conductor

Talliesin wrote:

He changed his behaviour. He even apologised. What exactly could he do beyond that?

Its such a massive no-no for some people. I know that he changed his behaviour and apologised- but it was an issue which kept coming up again and again over the 5 month period- so it obviously was something that was on her mind the whole time. I know thats its difficult to proactively deal with these things- particularly when the OP did not have all the pertinent information about his g/fs ex upfront, but when it kept coming up again and again- instead of accepting that his g/f was a happy puppy and that she was over it, when despite her protestations she obviouly wasn't, the OP and his g/f could have tried to sit down and work their way through it. From the limited information given onthread- I don't believe even at this stage that the situation is irretrievable- but do think that it would require a lot of work on both their parts if they do want to try to make it work. If they do want to get back together- perhaps some form of relationship counselling might be in order? There was a fundamental breakdown in communication- or a lack of willingness on the part of his g/f to try to address what was bothering her- over the course of the 5 months- thats the problem. S.

ceidefields

I think she just freaked out about moving to be close to him and taking everything to the next level. And she's using this as an excuse to back out.

CathyMoran

I agree with Shane, if he had slept with someone else of the opposite sex on a platonic basis I would have been very upset, I would not even sleep with my brother (ever, even when we were kids) let alone a friend of the opposite sex.

OP, you made a mistake and have appologised, obviously your actions have stirred up further feelings in your girlfriend that you BOTH need to address. I would suggest relationship councelling at this stage, I know that seems extreme but it is better to nip these problems in the bud.

Amazotheamazing

The OP did nothing wrong, some people just have issues that you can't predict.

Talliesin

smccarrick wrote:

Its such a massive no-no for some people.

X is a massive no-no for some people, for pretty much all values of X.

smccarrick wrote:

I know that he changed his behaviour and apologised- but it was an issue which kept coming up again and again over the 5 month period- so it obviously was something that was on her mind the whole time.

Yeah, but she was the one with the issues.

He was stuck trying to manage her issues. Sure he made mistakes (should never have apologised, that just validated her stuff), but they were mistakes in terms of how to best handle something, not moral ones; "d'oh" mistakes, not "mea culpa" mistakes.

Venom

Sin_less wrote:

Anyway, that day Ms. A arrived down to visit. We headed into town for a few afternoon pints and were outside having a smoke, general chit chat and she asked me about the night before. Told her about Ms B staying over and she said “I hope she didn’t stay in your bed” in a jokey way. Told her that she did (I had nothing to hide/had done nothing wrong/wouldn’t lie about it) and carried on with the conversation. Had a great weekend with her, all good and she left on the Sunday.

Got a phone call on the Monday from Ms A telling me that she was so hurt by what I did on the Friday with Ms B, how if she had called in and seen her there she would have left straight away etc etc. I explained to her about it (1-4 above), said I didn’t realise it would upset he so much, won’t happen again, very sorry etc etc. All seemed right with the world again and we had gotten over our first argument.

Like some of the other posters I think sharing a bed when a sofa was avaible is pretty odd but different strokes for different folks I guess.

However if it was such a big issue with Ms A then why would she wait 3 days before making such an issue of it?

I think its more of her using it as an excuse to break up with the OP.

Crumble Froo

i have to admit, i generally have no probs with close (obviously platonic) mates stayin in my bed when htey stay over, so i can empathise with the OP completely here. i guess its just one of those things, really... but if my fella asked me to not do that, then i woudlnt, same as the OP.

i really feel for ya OP, i think what one poster said, to show her what you've written is one idea, another is to email her, put your thoughts and feelings into it, a big, last-ditch effort... give her time to read it, let her see it clearly from your perspective, how you feel about the situation, how you feel about her... put your heart into that email (or if youre into letter writing, that can work too)...

leave it with her then. if there's any hope for the two of ye, she will read it and realise what she's giving up, and try sort things out. if she doesnt get back to you... well... you can say you tried, and you gave it all you had.

id broken up with my current b/f for a coupla weeks before and it was an action like that that saved us... i hope the best for you too

milli

I don´t think you did anything wrong Sin_Less, and I do admire your honesty with (not as some have said stupidity in telling) Ms. A. She obviously has trust issues, but if you really love this girl, don´t just give up after a week - show her you´re there for her and that you´re willing to prove how much you care for her.

greenkittie

Wow i sympathise with the OP, I too had no idea people viewed sleeping in the same bed as a person of the opposite sex like this! When my little bro comes to stay or in fact any of my close male or female friends I wouldn't make them sleep on a horrid uncomfortable sofa and certainly wouldn't be sleeping on one myself!
recently was at my parents house with a close male friend of mine and came home horribly drunk to find there were no sheets or duvet on my bed so i just hopped in the double in the spare room with him. My boyfriend didn't mind at all, infact i teased him about it a little the next day. I would have no qualms about him sharing a bed with one of his female friends either.
Obviously the OPs situation is different, i just didn't realise this was so taboo.

Talliesin

It's not that taboo (think about it - think of all the friends you've shared a bed with, then multiply that by the number of other posters that have said they do it, then consider that we do so without any problems).

There will always be things that hit buttons for people though. You can never predict all of them (I have a deep distrust of hexagonal windows and could never be with anyone who lived in a building with hexagonal windows - pretty loopy of me, but completely true, they freak me out) but the Sid James test can give you an idea of relative likelihood should you either want to make sure you don't hurt a partner, or just make sure you don't end up dating someone with such issues in the first place.

Piste

OP: What constitutes "cheating" is very subjective, as you can see here there are very mixed views on whether sharing a bed with someone you're not in a relationship with while you're in a relationship is cheating, I personally would say no but there are many out there who would be furious at the idea. You were unfortunate in that you got with a girl you really clicked with and were mad about and you two just simply had different views on what was "acceptable" or not.

You didn't do anything wrong, it did not occur to you that she might be offended by this, I can understand that, to me it seems perfectly alright, you're not a psychic so you couldn't have known how she'd react.

She's unfortunate in that her boyfriend cheated on her, this obviously hurt her very deeply and she must have cared for you an awful lot if the idea of you even sharing a bed with another girl upset her so much. It seems irrational and illogical, but c'est la vie, we none of us can help what we feel about certain things.

Unfortunately I don't think there is anything you can do about this situation except take away a lesson, when members of the opposite sex are involved platonically, think about the situation and think would your OH approve, of course you shouldn't have to do anything crazy like have no female friends cos your Girlfriend says so, but if the situation arises where you have a girlfriend and you might be sharing a bed with another girl, it might be a good idea to check with her first and see if she's comfortable with it, like I said if she isn't it may seem silly, but we can't help what we feel.

Your ex seems to have made her mind up, and though you did try to explain to her and I agree you were in the right, I think she's too hurt to take you back.

Good luck with everything, hope it all works out!

aidan24326

Only mistake you made here was telling your girlfriend at all. Silly boy. Girlfriend remarks "I hope she didn't stay in your bed". Simple answer- "no no she slept on the couch". Two lessons to be learned here.

1.Honesty isn't always the best policy. 98% of the time yes, but this was in the 2% category.
2.Girls tend to have a problem with that sort of thing, in future don't go sharing your bed with platonic girlfriends when you're attached, no matter how innocent you think it is. In the runaway train that is the female mind it's never ever innocent.

As for Ms.A she has perhaps been a bit harsh and she may come to realise this. If you love her and she's worth the effort then don't give up yet.

goz83

You were not dumped for the reason she says. She would not have let it go on so long otherwise. It was an excuse and she is a coward.

I don't think you did anything wrong and you obviously wanted to be honest. I have slept with females non sexually and with no intent of sexual contact in certain circumstances. By admitting to it and agreeing to stop doing it was all you could do. drop the dead beat fish and tell her you've come to your senses and realised you've done nothing wrong and the problem is not yours.

LegacyUser

Thanks again for all the responses, the issue seems to have split the group! At least i know that it does go on in other groups and that its not some twisted practice reserved for me and my friends!

Apart from that, and having read all the posts, i still don't know what i can do. She was pretty adamant that she had made her decision but i am willing to make a fool of myself to get her back. Was toying with the idea of driving up so i could see her face to face (its a long, long drive) and discuss it but i have reservations about how she would react to it and it might do more damage than good.

I'm off on holidays next week so i have also been debating letting it sit for the moment - maybe a few weeks without contact might give her (and myself) a fresh prespective on it and, as they say, absence make the heart grow fonder!

Talliesin

aidan24326 wrote:

Only mistake you made here was telling your girlfriend at all. Silly boy. Girlfriend remarks "I hope she didn't stay in your bed".

Great, so then she notices that the bed had been slept in by two people and the spare bed clothes are exactly where they were before.

I'm about as non-jealous as they come, but I'd be pretty suspicious if my girlfriend said someone had slept on the sofa when they hadn't. Why the lies?

aidan24326 wrote:

Girls tend to have a problem with that sort of thing

No they don't. Some do.

aidan24326 wrote:

In the runaway train that is the female mind it's never ever innocent.

Date sane women that don't have a "runaway train" mind. Simple.

scoey

Hi all. In the human species there are 2 genders. One of these is called "male" and the other is "female". Members of these two genders have different sexual organs and are designed to be attracted to each other and have sex with each other. In our modern society, this usually occurs on/in a bed. For genetic reasons, biological siblings do not usually partake in this sort of thing. This doesn't count for people who are "like a brother". You see, despite what a person might tell themselves, "like a brother" is just some rubbish you've made up in your mind, and has no bearing on anything, and means feck all. It also takes no account of what the other person feels/thinks(and how can you ever know that).

Despite what you all like to tell yourselves in our modern liberated society, we are still biological creatures, with biological drives. Putting yourself in a bed with someone of the opposite gender, especially while drunk, as some have mentioned, is a risky situation. Most guys don't share a bed with other men.

The term "cuddle bitch" was invented to describe guys who share beds and such with female friends but feel attracted to them. Read www.iwforums.com for a plethora of stories of such situations. It is not rare. The assertions that some people make like "oh she's just a friend, sure she's attractive and we get on great, but I don't feel anything physical towards her" are utterly laughable. I know we live in our great enlightened age where we all feel like we've somehow transcended our beastly insticts and in the last hundred years or so there's been a real movement towards the denial of human nature, but trust me folks, biological wiring and millions of years of evolution don't go away just because you've decided you're just friends.

A lot of people realise this on a gut level, which is why they have a problem with their partner sharing a bed with a member of the opposite sex, "just friends" or not. "Just friends" is a cliche. It's a cliche because of the incredibly high incidence of "just friends" situations, where one wants to be more than just friends, and such situations are everywhere. Surely anyone acquainted with this very forum would have experience reading about that.

Deediddums

Scoey, you're assuming there was cuddling, that could definitely been considered out of line. I had taken it that for the sake of somewhere to sleep and due to a complete lack biological urges towards each other the OP and his mate slept in the same bed but without the intimacy of cuddling.

LegacyUser

No cuddling. no nothing. As explained in my first post, nothing has ever gone on with Ms B. Don't know where you're getting the idea that by sharing a bed with a friend that i secretly wanted something more. Such a thought has never crossed my mind.

Now, If she wanted it to be something more than friends it would have happened by now, have known her since i was a kid and there would have been numerous bed-sharing opportunities. but i know how she feels - its a completely platonic relationship

passive

Now, If she wanted it to be something more than friends it would have happened by now, have known her since i was a kid and there would have been numerous bed-sharing opportunities. but i know how she feels - its a completely platonic relationship

You're not doubted on this... Scoey's just spouting BS. Your account seems perfectly truthful and, tbh, like an honest, enviable sort of friendship. I'd be of the inclination that there must be something else up or else with the exhausted dismissal that she's just f*cked in the head and there's no point fighting for it if she cannot get over something like that at all...

I've brought ex-related trust issues to relationships myself and it isn't nice.. makes you act and question things completely irrationally... I think I'm just about over it, but it did put a strain on my last long relationship and caused her to act the same way and, in the end, trust issues played a large part in the death of it. People are responsible for their own emotional baggage and need to dump/burn it before engaging with somebody else in a different time&place.

Talliesin

passive wrote:

People are responsible for their own emotional baggage and need to dump/burn it before engaging with somebody else in a different time&place.

I think trying too hard to match that ideal - of being baggage free when you enter into a relationship - can bring as much problems as it solves.

Frankly, we're all going to have some baggage about some things. Telling yourself you are over it when you aren't, or at least able to compartmentalise it so it doesn't affect things when you can't, can make it worse rather than better.

Acknowledged baggage can be dealt with. If the OP knew that his partner had issues because she'd been cheated on, and that had caught her partner in bed with the person he'd been cheating with then he could have quite likely copped that boyfriend + woman + bed = bad thing for this woman, and seen that a perfectly normal and friendly act could be a trigger for her.

Similarly, why should she say that she was okay with it when she wasn't? Because we have this ideal of not bringing baggage with us into a relationship and she could only meet that ideal if she was okay with things. Hence failure to really deal with it, hence festering, hence disaster.

(That said, the possibility that it is over something else, or over nothing really but it just isn't clicking for her correctly, and this is an issue she's magnifying to give her a good solid reason for the break up is indeed quite possible).

aidan24326

Talliesin wrote:

Great, so then she notices that the bed had been slept in by two people and the spare bed clothes are exactly where they were before

Well done detective. Wouldn't be shockingly difficult to avoid that problem now would it? Fact is he shouldn't have had the girl sleeping in his bed, fair enough, but knowing his girlfriend may not find this behaviour as harmless as he thinks it is, the smart thing to do was say nowt. After all they're only going out a short time.

I'm about as non-jealous as they come, but I'd be pretty suspicious if my girlfriend said someone had slept on the sofa when they hadn't. Why the lies?

Because he obviously wasn't going out with the girl long enough to know how she might react. A little white lie would have saved the OP alot of hassle. The puritanical attitude of some posters on here is nauseating.

No they don't. Some do.

Agreed. I was generalising.

Date sane women that don't have a "runaway train" mind. Simple.

I am thanks.

Piste

I think the OP has had enough analysis of what was "right" or "wrong" to do, he wants to know what he can do now.

You can contact her one last time, or you can let it lie.

If you let it lie you might get over her faster, then again you might always wonder "what if I'd tried one last time?"

If you try talking to her again it could go one of two ways, she listens to you, accepts that you're honest and really care about you and she realises how lucky she'd be to be with you, or she reacts the same as last time and is very firm that you will not be getting back together.

Really you don't have anything to lose here as she's already broken up with you, so maybe make one last effort to get back in touch, no more than once, if you try too hard you'll seem needy and will have no chance of getting her back.

aidan24326

Talliesin wrote:

If the OP knew that his partner had issues because she'd been cheated on, and that had caught her partner in bed with the person he'd been cheating with then he could have quite likely copped that boyfriend + woman + bed = bad thing for this woman, and seen that a perfectly normal and friendly act could be a trigger for her

Which is why a) he shouldn't have had the girl in his bed and b) having done so, should have had the sense to keep his gob shut.


Though agree entirely that she migtht be just using this as a covenient excuse to break up with him.

Talliesin

He didn't know that though. In retrospect the Sid James test could have helped him realise that maybe she would, but even then that's hardly infallible.

I won't buy a pet tarantula, because I know girlfriend has a thing about spiders.

If I didn't know that and went "hey honey, look at the cool thing I found in the pet store" it wouldn't go down well, but would hardly be my fault.

If I phoned her to say "wait 'til you see what I bought in the pet store" and she asked "did you buy a spider" I wouldn't think to lie about it, why would I?

Caliden

I've stayed in the same bed as one of my female friends several times and nothing has ever happened and nothing will ever happen. She's an attractive girl but I'm just not interested in her.

You can't really convince your ex that nothing happened. You could maybe get Ms. B to help but that might make things more difficult.

Try tell her she shouldn't let previous experiences prevent her from falling in love with someone and that she will never get over her ex if she is always thinking about the way they broke up. Tell her that you're not like her ex and only offered Ms. B your bed to sleep in.
If she actually loved you she would give you more of a chance and would actually trust you if it was a proper relationship.

SarahSassy

Sin_less wrote:

I'm off on holidays next week so i have also been debating letting it sit for the moment - maybe a few weeks without contact might give her (and myself) a fresh prespective on it and, as they say, absence make the heart grow fonder!

No way - get up there and sort this out for one way or another. Absence does not always make the heart grow fonder!!! I would be raging if you disappeared for a few weeks.

chump

OP, you've done all you can do.

My personal opinion is, yea it's a bit off and wouldn't want my gf to share a bed with any of her male friends (gay or not) when I was going out with her.

Likewise for her, I'd imagine.

But this was at the start of a relationship and as you said nothing happened.

So basically she's making a mountain out of a molehill and it is her beef to get over.

Kell

OP- do not go to the other end of the country chasing a girl who

a) starting having issues with you the second time she visited
b) got you to change one of your habits/tendencies/parts of your character in the space of five months
c) has let the whole issue fester out of all proportion to the point where she dumped you

Not so long ago, an ex asked the same of me as your ex asked of you i.e. stop sharing a bed with female mates. I was quite put out to be asked such a thing to be honest, as like you, traditionally it was always platonic. Like you, if someone has a few too many or home is miles away, sharing a bed makes more sense than sleeping on a sofa. Lets face it- its all much comfier.

Someone comes into your life and after five months starts calling ANY shots based on her their fear and experience? Fúck her. Its not your problem, its hers. The most you can extend to her is pity for the fact that she is so chained to her past. Be happy that she is not part of your life anymore, dragging you down and projecting her insecurities on you.

K-

Talliesin

Kell wrote:

Someone comes into your life and after five months starts calling ANY shots based on her their fear and experience? Fúck her. Its not your problem, its hers.

I wouldn't be too harsh if I started dating someone and they said they'd an issue in this regard. I'd be worried that maybe it was part and parcel of a more general issue about platonic intimacy - in which case we simply wouldn't be suited - but if someone said "look, I've an issue with this, I know it doesn't make sense, but it would freak me out if you shared a bed with someone" then I'd accommodate that.

Thing is though, she didn't do that. She acted like the OP was meant to be some sort of mind-reader. It's the mind-reading thing that's a bigger worry. Avoid people that expect you to read their minds - even if you're quite good at reading their mind, you'll get it wrong eventually and then there'll be a big silly blow-up.

LegacyUser

'I wouldn’t have an issue sleeping in a bed with a guy who I wasn’t going out with unless I was going out with somebody and the said guy was not my boyfriend.

The last guy I went out with told me he shares a bed with his female friends when he has no where else to sleep, I told him that I would prefer if he didn’t while we were together, he did have an issue with this until I asked him how he would feel if I shared a bed with another guy. He got my point and said he wouldn’t.

It wasn’t an case of me trying to change him, I just don’t like the idea of my boyfriend sharing a bed with another women, be it platonic or otherwise.'