Aer Lingus Strike - They are not offering any practical remedy.

bugler

Hi All,

I am in Budapest as I type - beautiful place it is too. I flew to Vienna on Sunday, I am supposed to fly back to Dublin on Tuesday.

My sister alerted me to the fact that Aer Lingus pilots will strike next Tuesday and Wednesday, meaning I cannot travel on my original dates. It is lucky my sister did alert me to this, because as yet Aer Lingus have not bothered to email or ring me about this. They have, bizarrely, resent my original flight confirmations to my email address today, with no mention of a strike or anything untoward.

My sister rang Aer Lingus, who offered two remedies: 1. Cut my holiday short by a day, travel back to Vienna on Monday and fly back to Dublin and 2. Fly out from Budapest on Friday. Yes, Friday, as in 3 days after the original flight was scheduled.

Neither of these seem satisfactory to me. They are both absurd in their own way. I do not know how Vienna was factored in - it is in another country. I am sure if I had not flown in to Vienna originally it would never have been mentioned.

As for for flying back on Friday - this is ridiculous. They must think people have nothing else to do. For what it is worth: I have to be back in work on Thursday and my girlfriend starts a new job on Wednesday.

Now for what I want to ask....considering the following appears on the AL webby legal section:

9.2 CANCELLATION, REROUTING, DELAYS, ETC
9.2.1 We will take all necessary measures to avoid delay in carrying you and your Baggage. In the exercise of these measures and in order to prevent a flight cancellation, in exceptional circumstances we may arrange for a flight to be operated on our behalf by an alternative Carrier and/or aircraft.

9.2.2 Except as otherwise provided by the Convention, and subject as provided in Article 9.2.3, if we cancel a flight, fail to operate a flight reasonably according to the schedule, fail to stop at your destination or Stopover destination, or cause you to miss a Connecting Flight on which you hold a confirmed reservation, we shall, at your option, either:

9.2.2.1 carry you at the earliest opportunity on another of our scheduled services on which space is available without additional charge and, where necessary, extend the validity of your Ticket; or

9.2.2.2 within a reasonable period of time re-route you to the destination shown on your Ticket by our own services or those of another Carrier, or by other mutually agreed means and class of transportation without additional charge. If the fare and charges for the revised routing are lower than what you have paid, we shall refund the difference; or

9.2.2.3 make a refund in accordance with the provisions of Article 10.2.

9.2.3 Upon the occurrence of any of the events set out in Article 9.2.2, except as otherwise provided by the Convention, the options outlined in Article 9.2.2.1 through 9.2.2.3 are the sole and exclusive remedies available to you and we shall have no further liability to you. Notwithstanding the foregoing, we shall not be liable to you for any loss or damage occasioned by the occurrence of any of the events set out in Article 9.2.2 and the remedies mentioned in Article 9.2.2 will be available to you at our discretion, if we have taken all reasonably necessary measures to avoid the damage or it was impossible for us to take such measures.

9.2.4 If we are unable to provide previously confirmed space, we shall provide compensation to those Passengers denied boarding in accordance with applicable law and our denied boarding compensation policy.

I want to know what I can compel Aer Lingus to do. Pay for flights home by another airline is really what I want. They are available but cost a lot. Even working various angles and approaches using budgest airlines I would be out of pocket on this, even with the refund from Aer Lingus.

I have to be home on Tuesday.

Do I have recourse to the small claims court for any extra costs incurred by me in my efforts to get home? I am sure people have been in this situation before.

MrJoeSoap probably needs to know too:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055134791

Thanks guys and girls.

whippet

Now, I am no consumer legal eagle, but depending on the interpretation of the terms and conditions of AL which you have agreed to by virtue of booking the ticket it seems that the offers that they have made you have more than covered what they said they would do in the event of a cancellation.

The re-arrangments of flights is done by ‘mutual consent’ according to their terms and conditions which would imply that you can’t demand a particular solution to suit yourself and expect AL to jump when they have made various other offers.

It is a long time since I have read the full terms and conditions of a flight ticket but I do seem to recall reading something before that Wars, Strikes, acts of god etc.. were outside of the scope of the Airline’s control and therefore altered their liability to the customer.

My advice would be to pick one of the solutions that AirLingus have offered you and vent your anger at the Unions and the greedy Pilots who think that a starting salary of €115k + some of the best terms of employment in the state is a race to the bottom.

antoinolachtnai

You are out of luck here. If you want to get home on time, you just have to pay the money. You will not be able to force an airline to do something impossible, i.e., fly you home during a strike. You cannot expect them to compensate you for something completely outside their control. They may have the option not to carry you at all, and to simply give you a refund.

There is a good chance there won't be a strike. But if you want certainty, it's going to cost.

mickoneill30

Did you book through a travel agent at all? They might have more options. I know somebody working in one and for flights going out anyway they're moving people to Air France and BM. I presume they'll be working on getting their customers back too.

Idiot pilots. Losing customers to other carriers is not going to help their cause. Generally I stick with airlines that treat me well, even if it costs a few more quid. Losing business is not a good way to make sure their jobs or pay stays safe.

PeakOutput

antoinolachtnai wrote:

You are out of luck here. If you want to get home on time, you just have to pay the money. You will not be able to force an airline to do something impossible, i.e., fly you home during a strike. You cannot expect them to compensate you for something completely outside their control. They may have the option not to carry you at all, and to simply give you a refund.

the terms and conditions clearly state that they will pay for travel with another carrier

PeakOutput

whippet wrote:

The re-arrangments of flights is done by ‘mutual consent’ according to their terms and conditions which would imply that you can’t demand a particular solution to suit yourself and expect AL to jump when they have made various other offers.

it says the mode of travel will be mutually agreed but that it is the customers choice if they want to choose the option of getting them to go about organising travel with other companies

Red Alert

Telling consumers to vent their anger at the pilots is a bit crass - you buy an airline service as a 'black box' and they should do what they were paid for.

therecklessone

9.2.3 Upon the occurrence of any of the events set out in Article 9.2.2, except as otherwise provided by the Convention, the options outlined in Article 9.2.2.1 through 9.2.2.3 are the sole and exclusive remedies available to you and we shall have no further liability to you. Notwithstanding the foregoing, we shall not be liable to you for any loss or damage occasioned by the occurrence of any of the events set out in Article 9.2.2 and the remedies mentioned in Article 9.2.2 will be available to you at our discretion, if we have taken all reasonably necessary measures to avoid the damage or it was impossible for us to take such measures.

I suspect they will claim that strike action by staff is out of their control, and as such are only required to ffer you a solution at their discretion.

AFAIK, the EU regulations on passenger rights introduced in 2004 allow airlines to avoid their obligation to compensate in "extraordinary circumstances" of which strike action is one.

John R

therecklessone wrote:

I suspect they will claim that strike action by staff is out of their control, and as such are only required to ffer you a solution at their discretion.

AFAIK, the EU regulations on passenger rights introduced in 2004 allow airlines to avoid their obligation to compensate in "extraordinary circumstances" of which strike action is one.

That is correct http://www.etntalk.com/gif/deniedboarding/regulation_261.pdf paragraph 14

bugler

Thank you everyone for your input.

I eventually got back last night, via easyjet from Budapest to Luton, and Ryanair on to Dublin. For what it's worth, my grievances - rather than being based on annoyance at the inconvenience (which was considerable in many ways I won't bore you with) - is primarily based on the unforeseen financial cost I incurred due to the threatened strike action. Who could wait until the evening before their flight date to see if the strike could be averted? Someone with balls of steel maybe.

I will be taking this to the Small Claims Court, if for no other reason than I know many large companies can't be bothered to contest claims there. Also, I want to go to the SCC at least once in my life Also also, I think what happened me and I'm sure many other passengers was unfair, whatever about the strict legal obligations.

When I posted this thread I actually hadn't been talking to Aer Lingus personally. However, I did soon after. Essentially CC were like pretty much every CC, they had been fed a line from above, and they weren't going to engage in debate as a) They didn't know much about what was being discussed and b) There was no point.

The CC supervisor eventually just said in blunt terms you have three options:

- Cut the holiday short and travel back to Vienna on Sunday (I got this wrong in my original post and said Monday).

- Wait three days for the Friday flight from Budapest.

- Get a refund.

He then said if I felt unhappy with these options to talk to my solicitor...the vibe from CC was one of gritting their teeth and getting through this, with little scent of concern for the customers.

To articulate the points that rankle with me:

- The cost. The obvious one really. Having booked my holiday well in advance the total cost of my flights to Vienna and back from Budapest direct was €450odd. So I expect a refund of some €225 (and it might be less). The flights back on the route from Budapest to Dublin (via Luton of course), was excess €700. Which means a nice expense of €500 to add to the holiday. When I heard the strike was called off I couldn't afford to take the easy option and take the direct flight as per the original plan - I needed the refund.

- Aer Lingus never contacted me about the strike. When I put this to CC I got the frankly awe-inspiring response "Some people did get email notice but I can see that you didn't". No explanation of why that was was forthcoming. When I put it to them that someone without family in Ireland (maybe a Hungarian person travelling to Dublin) would have received no warning from either friends or family and might show up to the airport for their flight which to their knowledge was going ahead, CC agreed that yes that could happen.

- With regard to the strike itself, I find it extraordinary that a strike can be viewed as outside the control of the Company. How can the actions of the Companies employees be outside their control? No doubt it is an exception to protect the 'sanctity' of strike action. And if it was outside their control, can we assume then the Company played no part in having the strike postponed, and no part in its eventual resolution?

I support the right of workers to strike - however I feel those who are involved in transport should show some consideration toward the people whose custom provide them with their jobs. I have no time for those who force the brunt of their problems on others with no involvement.

The people who suffered most from this are people earning a 1/5th to a 1/3rd of the money these pilots are bleating about.

From rough calculations I'd say my girlfriend and I have spent in the region of €1500 on flights over the past year (I'm not counting the cost of getting back this time). I'd say about 80%-90% of this went to Aer Lingus (ironically I shunned Ryan Air even though they've never wronged me. I thought paying the extra for a "better" airline might pay off in a case such as this! Oh how I laugh now at my innocent faith).

This time next year I'd expect to have spent a similar amount. The difference will be that Aer Lingus will have received 0.00% of it. I will not fly with them again. I hope anyone similary affected will give consideration to doing the same. Good luck to the pilots, CC, Directors et al.

PeakOutput

if you can go to the small claims court then go for it id love to have something to go to the scc for but 2 things

1. the strike was called off so could you not of gotten your original flight back? that will be their argument

2. are you able to take companies to the scc i thought it was just for "private" matters


edit; didnt see the part were you explained why you could not jsut take the original flight

mcaul

And this is where annual multi trip travel insurance comes in handy!!!! - For about €70 a year it will cover cancelled flights / strikes / lost baggage / getting home etc etc




.

MOH

PeakOutput wrote:

if you can go to the small claims court then go for it id love to have something to go to the scc for but 2 things

1. the strike was called off so could you not of gotten your original flight back? that will be their argument

2. are you able to take companies to the scc i thought it was just for "private" matters


edit; didnt see the part were you explained why you could not jsut take the original flight

You can only take businesses to the SCC - you can't use it for private matters.

antoinolachtnai

bugler wrote:

Thank you everyone for your input.
- With regard to the strike itself, I find it extraordinary that a strike can be viewed as outside the control of the Company. How can the actions of the Companies employees be outside their control? No doubt it is an exception to protect the 'sanctity' of strike action. And if it was outside their control, can we assume then the Company played no part in having the strike postponed, and no part in its eventual resolution?

I support the right of workers to strike - however I feel those who are involved in transport should show some consideration toward the people whose custom provide them with their jobs. I have no time for those who force the brunt of their problems on others with no involvement.

The thing about strikes is pretty well established. You can't sue a travel company for non-performance where a strike is involved, in general terms. I think this is in the Warsaw Convention. Twenty years ago, strikes were a frequent occurrence and everybody was aware of this. Nowadays, people are surprised by the consequences of a strike.

I would be surprised if AL didn't defend this in the SCC and I'd be very surprised if they didn't win. If they didn't win, they'd just appeal it. I don't see this going anywhere for you. Maybe they will throw you a few vouchers, I don't know.

True, they should have tried to contact you. But stuff happens during a strike, that's how it goes, unfortunately.

I don 't mean to make light of the amount you spend on travel, but it is really very small in the grand scheme of things. There are plenty of people spending that much on AL every fortnight.

Boycotting companies with large market share is a bit of a loser in my personal experience. The reality is that you have to work with these companies, even if you don't like them.

PeakOutput

MOH wrote:

You can only take businesses to the SCC - you can't use it for private matters.

oh right i got that rightly confused then..........were do you go if you want to sue someone for say...their dog biting you and causing you to miss work then?

sorry i know its ot

antoinolachtnai

that would be one for the PIAB, of if you are going to the courts, the District Court if the claim is not for too large an amount. If the amount is more than a few thousand, it's the circuit court. (Obviously, you should take legal advice if someone's dog has bitten you causing this degree of damage.)

bugler

Just to update everyone who contributed on what happened...

Having received no refund on the return part of my flight 3 weeks after cancellation ("We have thousands of refunds to do manually so it is very slow"), I decided to go ahead and take them to the Small Claims Court. This was the final straw really.

€9 was a small price to pay for the chance of getting back so much more. In any case, Aer Lingus evidently weren't too keen on fighting this, as they supplied a full refund and covered the price of my alternative arrangements home. The district court clerk informs me the cheque is in the post

So for anyone out there in a similar position, don't be afraid to pursue it.