VW Golf - The most hated car on boards

rs

I've read enough threads on this board to discover that there seems to be a huge amount of Golf haters on boards. I like to understand the reasons behind this.

I've had a Golf Mark IV for about 12 months and I do understand some of the criticism. To be honest when I first got it I was a little disappointed. The exterior is fine (I always liked the Mark IV although I admit it's starting to look slightly dated now) but the Interior was pretty damn boring. It also didn't have remote central locking, which still annoys me. I have to turn a key to open it, like a sucker!

Also, the golf is not a cheap car to buy, but it does hold it's value well so the cost of owning one for a couple of years is not too bad. You just end up having a bit more money tied up in. To me the cost of owning a car for a few years is much more important than the cost to buy it.

After 12 months I have to say the Golf has grown on me quite a bit. Never given me any trouble at all, handles well, solid build quality, big boot, decent on petrol. Most importantly it's comfortable an very, very, very easy to drive. With an hour commute in and out to work these things have become significantly more important than the boring interior, slightly higher up front cost and lack of features.

So why do people think the golf is such a terrible car. It has it's faults and I'm the first to admit it. But when I change this car I have to say I'd certainly consider getting another one.

unkel

rs wrote:

when I change this car I have to say I'd certainly consider getting another one.

Make sure that you get a Mk V GTI then

fletch

I just hate the 1.4 models, I don't know why so many people buy them. This guy seems to think that it's very fast for 1.4 when it reality its one of the slowest 1.4's on the road

Edit - I love the GTI and R32!

JHMEG

I think people dislike them because there are a lot of better cars that are better equipped for less money.

crosstownk

For me it's not so much the car I don't like - yes some can give a lot of bother. I've a 2000 1.4 Bora (same thing with a boot attached) and it's never blown a bulb. However, I did have a new set of pistons fitted due to piston slap, but I got this job done simply because the tapping noise was wrecking my head, but the car could have driven on without needing new pistons.

But what really boils my blood is (most) VW dealers whose attitude to the customer is one of total apathy. They just don't give a fcuk. I'm getting irritated even thinking about it.....................:mad:

rs

fletch wrote:

I just hate the 1.4 models, I don't know why so many people buy them. This guy seems to think that it's very fast for 1.4 when it reality its one of the slowest 1.4's on the road

I imagine the reason people buy 1.4 cars has nothing to do with insurance costs, road tax on fuel costs.

maidhc

rs wrote:

With an hour commute in and out to work these things have become significantly more important than the boring interior, slightly higher up front cost and lack of features.

Because its competitors do not have these shortcomings, and as an added bonus are more fun to drive and more reliable!

Stephen

I'm with fletch here... I don't dislike them, I'm just well aware of the fact that most of them in this country are 1.4's that are incapable of pulling you out of bed, and the rest are noisy oil burners

rs

Stephen wrote:

I'm with fletch here... I don't dislike them, I'm just well aware of the fact that most of them in this country are 1.4's that are incapable of pulling you out of bed, and the rest are noisy oil burners

True, but if you want a high performance car you don't want a 1.4l engine. I suspect the low power 1.4 in the golf is designed to be a smooth and economical engine rather than a high performance one. The GTI is for people who want performance

And exactly how much power do you need to sit in Dublin traffic going nowhere anyway?

alias no.9

I don't hate them, I just think they're over rated, over priced, under powered and under spec'd. They're not nearly as good as the marketing folks would like you to think they are, in much the same way as Tim Hendman and the english football team are not nearly as good as the british sporting media would like you to think they are.

alias no.9

Stephen wrote:

I'm with fletch here... I don't dislike them, I'm just well aware of the fact that most of them in this country are 1.4's that are incapable of pulling you out of bed, and the rest are noisy oil burners

Couldn't pull the skin off a cold bowl of soup is the best way I've heard it put.

rs

maidhc wrote:

Because its competitors do not have these shortcomings, and as an added bonus are more fun to drive and more reliable!

Which competitors? I'm not being a smart-ass here. I'd actually like to know which cars you would choose in the same class.

AlanAhern

f.eck the gti get the R32!!

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=601346

dingding

Had one of these. used to use a lot of oil from new, used to have to put in 1 to 1.5 liters per 1000 miles.

Garage said it was normal and pointed to a page in the car manual where it gave directions to top up and suggested oil useage.

No other car I had ever needed oil between oil changes.

Underpowered and plain inside.

The positives.

One of the most comfortable seats, solid on the road. Looked well when new 1999 compared with other cars.

Might just have been unluckey with the engine.

r3nu4l

rs wrote:

Which competitors? I'm not being a smart-ass here. I'd actually like to know which cars you would choose in the same class.

On reading this thread I was about to start a thread asking about alternatives to the VW Golf It would be nice ot know what people think. I have never owned a Golf so have no allegiance to it. I wouldn't buy one because I think it's overpriced for what you get but I'd like to know what people think are as good as or better than a golf in the same class.

Stephen

rs wrote:

True, but if you want a high performance car you don't want a 1.4l engine. I suspect the low power 1.4 in the golf is designed to be a smooth and economical engine rather than a high performance one. The GTI is for people who want performance

And exactly how much power do you need to sit in Dublin traffic going nowhere anyway?

I'm sure the 1.4 is smooth and economical and I'm not knocking it. For my own needs it just wouldn't be sufficient Fortunately I don't live in Dublin and endure its poxy traffic.

layke

JHMEG wrote:

I think people dislike them because there are a lot of better cars that are better equipped for less money.

Agreed 100%.

I don't hate the Golf, I think their deisel models are fab. I just think there's better value and performance for your money then buying a golf.

If anything judging from past posts Alfas are probably the most hated here.

rs

layke wrote:

If anything judging from past posts Alfas are probably the most hated here.

That's true. And I'd never buy an Alfa even though I think they are fantastic looking cars, inside and out.

It's not that I don't like them. It's the cost of ownership (higher chance of breakdown and very high depreciation) that would put me off.

I think the Golf's reputation as an ultra-reliable car is over-rated though. I think it's more reliable than average and most published stats seem to support this. But it's no Japanese car

crosstownk

layke wrote:

If anything judging from past posts Alfas are probably the most hated here.

Possibly, but Renaults take their fair share of flack too.

maidhc

rs wrote:

Which competitors? I'm not being a smart-ass here. I'd actually like to know which cars you would choose in the same class.

Well I chose a Focus!

The Corolla and Civic are also worth a mention.

... and an Octavia!

MarkN

Just two things.

rs wrote:

handles well

The MKIV does not handle well. It is dreadful and I'm talking about the GTI, the 1.4 is going to be a lot worse.

alias no.9 wrote:

Couldn't pull the skin off a cold bowl of soup is the best way I've heard it put.

I don't think it's fair to paint the Golf as the worst offender for this, ALL 1.4 cars would not pull the skin off a cold bowl of soup.

Evil_Clown

I also think that the base 1.4 model is completely over priced.
When I went to buy my car (honda civic 1.4i) 2 years ago I looked at a 98 1.4 golf in the same garage both cars have around 80,000
For €2,500 cheaper I got the civic which had all electrics, sunroof, body coloured bumpers and a faster engine etc.
As far as i'm concerned hondas are as reliable as golfs and hold their value so I was astonished at the price difference. I simply cannot understand why golfs are so expensive. Is it a conspiracy to keep the price up ??

RobAMerc

I cannot understand this - as a forum supposedly frequented by car enthusiasts the Golf gets slated yet the likes of the Nissan Almera and Toyota Corrolla get the thumbs up simply coz they don't break down ??

I can understand some of the criticism of the Golf - some of it is warranted but when compared to some of the tin cans we're sold as 'Cars' - its still a nice motor.

I personally think the Golf, and 3 series BMW get slated on jealousy grounds as much as anything else and the Alfa duffing threads are generally populated by crap people who have no idea about cars write simply as they know someone will second there opinion.

Henry Ford III

I like the GTI

They are all overpriced, over rated (mostly), have aged technology (8 valve 1.6 & 1.9 diesels), relatively poor spec, and are non too reliable.

All similar sized 1.4 petrol engined cars are pretty slow.

rs

maidhc wrote:

Well I chose a Focus!

I drove a focus in North America. It was an automatic, but nice enough to drive. The only thing that annoyed me was the huge buttons (stereo, other controls). I'm guessing the European models come with regular sized buttons for our regular sized fingers

I'm not too keen on the styling of the new focus hatchback. That would be my only complaint. I used to have a Seat Leon which I think the design of the new Focus hatchback was basically stolen from.

maidhc wrote:

The Corolla and Civic are also worth a mention.

I've always found the Corolla to be a bit of an ugly car. Maybe it's just me, I dunno. I'm sure it's reliable and great to drive, but I'm slightly shallow when it comes to car exterior.

I love the new Civic (never driven one though) I thought the hondas got pretty boring styling wise until the last couple of years. Have never seen one of the new Civics in North America. It appears they don't sell them there. Weird.

maidhc wrote:

... and an Octavia!

I have to say, of all the VW owned Golf compeditors, I'd take the new Leon over the new Golf, Octavia or A3 purely on styling despite my bad experiences with the old Leon (reliability).

Theboinkmaster

I really think it depends on what you want.

I bought a black 07 1.4L golf sportline with about €2k of extras such as fogs, 17" zandvoorts etc and I absolutely love it. My only criticism of it is it's a very heavy car for the engine but since I'm stuck in Dublin traffic most of the time this doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I think it looks the bees knees and everyone who sits in it loves the seats. It's extremely comfortable and has everything I could possibly want in a car.

In 4 years I'm going to sell it and trade up to either a nice specced next-gen A3 or else a next-gen GTI - depends on what they're like.

For my money I could have bought a 330ci or something but I wanted a brand new car.

I freely admit I'm a label whore and would not drive a nissan or skoda. You get what you pay for. For example I went for a test drive with my uncle in the new ford mondeo zetec. The armrest and handbrake were plastic instead of seating cloth and leather - this would piss me off and shows what you have to endure with a non-premium brand like ford.

I think my lil golf was worth every penny

rs

Henry Ford III wrote:

and are non too reliable.

Most stats on the Golf place it fairly well in terms of reliability. (not as good as honda, toyota, mazda, etc) but still well ahead of most of other rivals.

I don't think it's fair (or true) to call it an unreliable car.

Certainly on boards you'll hear about more Golf problems, but I suspect this has a lot to do with the number of Golfs in Ireland and perhaps skews the perception against it.

TychoCaine

rs wrote:

I drove a focus in North America. It was an automatic, but nice enough to drive. The only thing that annoyed me was the huge buttons (stereo, other controls). I'm guessing the European models come with regular sized buttons for our regular sized fingers

The US Focus is a totally different car to the European one. They released a totally new focus over here, but the US are still selling a heavily facelifted version of the old model. The stereo with the huge buttons was fitted to the old shape Focus, but thankfully has been replaced with something a bit more tasteful. Even the old model came with a steering wheel remote as standard, so I rarely used the buttons on the unit anyway when I had mine.

Getting back to the topic, the Golf is a good car, with above average reliability and interior quality (but with sub-standard looks and electrics). The thing I can't get over is the poor value. It's thousands dearer than other cars in it's class (Focus, Astra, Corolla etc.). The Mk. IV didn't even have electric windows as standard for a good while when little Italian sh1tboxes for half the money did. A certain type of Golf owner percieve them as being a better car because they were more expensive, which is a joke. They've been ripped off, and think they should be envied because of it. It's these drivers I can't stand, not the cars they drive.

Robbo

Isn't it about time someone made a set of motors board specific gathering cards? Ragging on Golfs would certainly warrant one.

I'll start the ball rolling:

• The Awesome power of the VAG TDI
• "It's not a fast lane, it's an overtaking lane"
• "It's a speed limit not a target"
• A Honda fanboy quoting engine codes and dyno plots for an obscure import Civic that they were only allowed sell on Japanese bank holidays
• "I've just run over a herd of nuns whilst hammered, any chance I can get off?"
• The trials and tribulations of Cormie's van

Perhaps someone with access to Photoshop could do a series of cat images to illustrate them?

Henry Ford III

rs wrote:

Most stats on the Golf place it fairly well in terms of reliability. (not as good as honda, toyota, mazda, etc) but still well ahead of most of other rivals.

I don't think it's fair (or true) to call it an unreliable car.

Certainly on boards you'll hear about more Golf problems, but I suspect this has a lot to do with the number of Golfs in Ireland and perhaps skews the perception against it.

I think it's entirely fair call it average in terms of reliability. They are not market dominant in sales here.

Henry Ford III

Theboinkmaster wrote:

I really think it depends on what you want.

I bought a black 07 1.4L golf sportline with about €2k of extras such as fogs, 17" zandvoorts etc and I absolutely love it. My only criticism of it is it's a very heavy car for the engine but since I'm stuck in Dublin traffic most of the time this doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I think it looks the bees knees and everyone who sits in it loves the seats. It's extremely comfortable and has everything I could possibly want in a car.

In 4 years I'm going to sell it and trade up to either a nice specced next-gen A3 or else a next-gen GTI - depends on what they're like.

For my money I could have bought a 330ci or something but I wanted a brand new car.

I freely admit I'm a label whore and would not drive a nissan or skoda. You get what you pay for. For example I went for a test drive with my uncle in the new ford mondeo zetec. The armrest and handbrake were plastic instead of seating cloth and leather - this would piss me off and shows what you have to endure with a non-premium brand like ford.

I think my lil golf was worth every penny

Each to their own I guess. I reckon your car was apalling value for money Your extras will be worth zip in a couple of years.

Mondeo Zetec is a mid range model. Well equipped and decent value (comparatively). Pay more for a Ghia or Titanium and you'll get all those bits of trim.

rs

TychoCaine wrote:

A certain type of Golf owner percieve them as being a better car because they were more expensive, which is a joke. They've been ripped off, and think they should be envied because of it. It's these drivers I can't stand, not the cars they drive.

It depends on how you look at it. I don't perceive the Golf to be a better car than it's rivals because it's more expensive.

Yes, I could have bought a cheaper car. And I could watch that cheaper car plummet in value over the two or three years that I own it.

Example, based on CBG's car valuer thing

I buy an 03 Golf today, average price on cbg €14,000
I sell it in two years time, average price on cbg of 01 golf, €10,150

You buy a corolla 03 model - avg price on cbg €12,600
You sell it in 2 years time - avg price on cbg for 01 Corolla - €7,786

You buy a civic 03 - avg price on cbg 14,000
Sell in 2 years time - avg price 01 civic 9,000

The golf lost 3,850
The corolla lost 4,814
The civic lost 5,000

And I got ripped off? I didn't buy a golf because I think it's expensive or some sort of brand status. I bought it because I'm an incredibly cheap b*stard, and I'm proud of it too

siralfalot

Right, I've owned a 1.4 mk IV golf, it was overpriced, over rated and very poorly specced, It didn't even have central feckin locking as standard. it was also not very reliable and the brakes were absolute rubbish.

but worse, so much worse than all the above, it was boring, really truly boring as a driving experiance

the 1.2 Fiat Bravo I replaced it with is surprisingly far far superior, at least you feel like the wheels are connected to the steering wheel!!

far2gud

1.4 Golf's are just plain boring, way too many of them around. Its like everyone going to dunnes stores and buying the same jumper..not good.

rs

far2gud wrote:

1.4 Golf's are just plain boring, way too many of them around. Its like everyone going to dunnes stores and buying the same jumper..not good.

I have to admit, I do look at the license plate in public car parks before I try to get into my car, just to make sure it really is mine one

Vegeta

Robbo wrote:

Isn't it about time someone made a set of motors board specific gathering cards? Ragging on Golfs would certainly warrant one.

I'll start the ball rolling:

• The Awesome power of the VAG TDI
• "It's not a fast lane, it's an overtaking lane"
• "It's a speed limit not a target"
• A Honda fanboy quoting engine codes and dyno plots for an obscure import Civic that they were only allowed sell on Japanese bank holidays
• "I've just run over a herd of nuns whilst hammered, any chance I can get off?"
• The trials and tribulations of Cormie's van

Perhaps someone with access to Photoshop could do a series of cat images to illustrate them?

genius

JHMEG

rs wrote:

The golf lost 3,850
The corolla lost 4,814
The civic lost 5,000

So an '01 Golf is an even worse buy!

I agree with MarkN... it's been a while since I drove a 1.4 Golf (around '00), but the handling was dreadful. It was almost boat-like, and reminded me of holidays on the Shannon in Emerald Star cabin cruisers. The previous model was as bad (the good ole 60bhp CL).

Power was lacking, combined with a heavy body made overtaking something I didn't feel comfortable trying.

Still tho, the doors made a nice "clunk" when closed.

.Longshanks.

far2gud wrote:

1.4 Golf's are just plain boring, way too many of them around. Its like everyone going to dunnes stores and buying the same jumper..not good.

Except that this 1.4 has either 140 or 170 bhp:
[/QUOTE]
(even thou it was only in the film for about 4 seconds)

Altreab

JHMEG wrote:

Still tho, the doors made a nice "clunk" when closed.

oh that has to be up there with .."did ya see the size of the boot in the Octavia"

JHMEG

Altreab wrote:

oh that has to be up there with .."did ya see the size of the boot in the Octavia"

Believe or not I know people where the quality of the "clunk" was the deciding factor when it came to buying a car. I think certain manufacturers have twigged this.

Altreab

JHMEG wrote:

Believe or not I know people where the quality of the "clunk" was the deciding factor when it came to buying a car. I think certain manufacturers have twigged this.

i know a few like that too just as some i know have bought cars cos they have big boots. This despite only using them once in a blue moon.

bazz26

I don't particularly hate the Golf, the MkV GTi and R32 are great cars by all accounts. I just don't see what is so great about the lesser models to warranty spending extra on what other manufacturers sell that is as good if not better.

Imo your average model Golf, not the GTi or R32, is just that, average.
I couldn't justify the additional premium price and perception that VW tend to market them as. It seems to have started in the mid 1980s where they became the favorite toy of the yuppie to announce the dizzy heights of their social status. Something the VW marketing department seems to have been spinning ever since.

Just to summarise imho the Golf is not a bad car by any means but the main stream bread and butter models are nothing special, nothing special enough imo to warrant spending the extra dosh on anyway.

rs

JHMEG wrote:

Believe or not I know people where the quality of the "clunk" was the deciding factor when it came to buying a car. I think certain manufacturers have twigged this.

I used to have a 1979 Volvo 240 many years ago. Now those doors made a nice clunk!

whippet

I was never a big fan of the Golf, my last car was a SEAT as I thought it offered better value to the VW, I realised then when I was selling that it was a false economy as the resale of the VW was far more attractive than the SEAT.

The true cost of a car is the price between purchase and resale (factoring in financing costs too)

Then this year I got the new GTI and the amount of people who will say that its a great car etc .. will always try to get a dig in about either a) over priced b) the ST or OPC has more horses c) they are common as muck etc d) the Ocatvia VRS is much better value and has a boot ....

Now the majority of these people are driving in corrollas, standard focus', volvo s40s making these comments.

On a drive to cork recently, I spotted 5 (yes 5) Bently Cont GTs on the road and only 3 GTIs .. while this isn't scientific on this run the GTI was rarer than the Bentley. As for price, 40k is quite a lot of money to spend on a hatch back, but own one for a few months and you won't regret a thing.

As for the OPC, ST, VRS arguments, yes they are great cars but to me the GTI was more attractive on every level, looks, DSG gear box and some irrational sense of belonging to the original GTI.

It is just amazing the amount of people who talk a car up and then as soon as they see someone driving it .. begrudgery sets in .. 'Look at yer man in the Boxter he couldn't afford the 911' as you point from the window of your 'chipped' TD(red)i Bora.

Theboinkmaster

bazz26 wrote:

I don't particularly hate the Golf, the MkV GTi and R32 are great cars by all accounts. I just don't see what is so great about the lesser models to warranty spending extra on what other manufacturers sell that is as good if not better.

Imo your average model Golf, not the GTi or R32, is just that, average.
I couldn't justify the additional premium price and perception that VW tend to market them as. It seems to have started in the mid 1980s where they became the favorite toy of the yuppie to announce the dizzy heights of their social status. Something the VW marketing department seems to have been spinning ever since.

Just to summarise imho the Golf is not a bad car by any means but the main stream bread and butter models are nothing special, nothing special enough imo to warrant spending the extra dosh on anyway.

IMHO the average golf is worth the extra money compared to it's competitors. For example I think it looks far better than a focus and when sitting in the drivers seat for both I much prefer the look and feel of the golf's cabin - the focus just seems cheep in comparison.

I do agree however that there is a 'yuppie' thing going on with it but I couldn't care less - I just prefer the golf.

Theboinkmaster

whippet wrote:

I was never a big fan of the Golf, my last car was a SEAT as I thought it offered better value to the VW, I realised then when I was selling that it was a false economy as the resale of the VW was far more attractive than the SEAT.

The true cost of a car is the price between purchase and resale (factoring in financing costs too)

Then this year I got the new GTI and the amount of people who will say that its a great car etc .. will always try to get a dig in about either a) over priced b) the ST or OPC has more horses c) they are common as muck etc d) the Ocatvia VRS is much better value and has a boot ....

Now the majority of these people are driving in corrollas, standard focus', volvo s40s making these comments.

On a drive to cork recently, I spotted 5 (yes 5) Bently Cont GTs on the road and only 3 GTIs .. while this isn't scientific on this run the GTI was rarer than the Bentley. As for price, 40k is quite a lot of money to spend on a hatch back, but own one for a few months and you won't regret a thing.

As for the OPC, ST, VRS arguments, yes they are great cars but to me the GTI was more attractive on every level, looks, DSG gear box and some irrational sense of belonging to the original GTI.

It is just amazing the amount of people who talk a car up and then as soon as they see someone driving it .. begrudgery sets in .. 'Look at yer man in the Boxter he couldn't afford the 911' as you point from the window of your 'chipped' TD(red)i Bora.

Very well said - couldn't agree more

TechnoFreek

I'm looking to buy my first car. I've been driving for a few years, full license etc but never had a car to call my own!

I'm not a driver, i dont know anything about engines etc however there is something about the look of the Golf Mark 5 that really appeals to me. So much so that I want to try pick one up second-hand.

Is it wrong to wish for a car based on looks alone?

I make no demands on a car other than it gets me from A to B and I like the look of! I'm not a label whore. If Kia released a car that I liked the design of then I would also consider it.

rs

TechnoFreek wrote:

Is it wrong to wish for a car based on looks alone?

Yes, it's probably a bad idea to buy a car only for its looks. But looks do factor very heavily in most people's decision to buy a car (including mine). I would not buy a car that I consider ugly, no matter how fast, reliable, etc it is.

Best thing to do is take one for a test drive and see how it feels to drive. If you still want one a few days later then maybe it's the car for you.

The Golf isn't the best car in the world but that's not the most important thing really. How you feel about it is what's important. It's certainly not a 'bad' car.

At least of you buy a Golf and don't like it, you can always sell it and not lose too much

JHMEG

Theboinkmaster wrote:

Very well said - couldn't agree more

In fairness the MkV Golf GTI by all accounts is a very good car, and would be the pick of the crop in the last 20 years.

layke

Longshanks100 wrote:

Except that this 1.4 has either 140 or 170 bhp:

(even thou it was only in the film for about 4 seconds)

AND IT HAS LASERS!

JoeA3

I saw the Bourne Ultimatum last night, the Golf TSI appears for all of about 10 seconds! There's a good chase involving a Toureg later on, and several Audi's are used - I guess VW/Audi doing a bit of product placement.
Great film by the way!