Why do so many drivers overtake on the inside

swingking

I'm fed up of people overtaking me on the inside. This is a common occurance on the Naas road; a 3 lane dual carrigeway.

I was driving 100 km/h in the middle lane and suddenly 2 cars overtook me on the inside travelling about 120 km/h. I've no problem with them overtaking me on the outside lane. I do it myself to slower cars, but never do I overtake on the inside.

It's against the law

Except for 3 reasons:

1. When turning left
2. When the outside lane is stopped
3. When car on the inside lane is turning right.

Why do people get away with this

Mitch Connor

I can here sadles being checked.

cjt156

If they can pass you in the inside then you shouldn't be in the middle.

Beady

Why are you in the middle lane? If there's enough room for cars to pass you in the left lane that's exactly where you should be. Are you, to use the UK parlance, a MLM (middle lane moron).

Anan1

swingking wrote:

I was driving 100 km/h in the middle lane and suddenly 2 cars overtook me on the inside travelling about 120 km/h.

Why were you driving in the middle lane if the left lane was empty? (Which it clearly was, if two cars could overtake you in it)

swingking

I needed to be in the very outside lane to head down the belgard road. It would've been dangerous to cross two lanes in such a short time frame

fletch

You walked straight into this one swingking Looking forward to your response.

JoeySully

yeah you aske for it!

maybe if you check your mirrors more and they wont sneak up on you so much and you can move to the left lane
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055114726&referrerid=&highlight=

Did you get you licence - if not were you drivin alone?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055056128&referrerid=&highlight=

ah you werent' jst after commin off the Motorway were ya

xabi

You should have been in the left most lane unless you were overtaking someone. You should really have read the forum to see how many people have issues with bad motorway / Dual carriageway driving, before admitting doing it yourself.

X.

Beady

Put the shovel down!

swingking wrote:

I needed to be in the very outside lane to head down the belgard road. It would've been dangerous to cross two lanes in such a short time frame

No it wouldn't, I'll presume your car is equipped with brakes, an accelerator, mirrors, indicators and probably a steering wheel! Through skillful manipulation of these controls it should be perfectly possible, for a competent driver, to cross as many lanes as necessary in perfect safety!

If you were that close to your turn off you were in effect turning right, which according to your first post in this thread makes it perfectly acceptable for people to pass you on the left. Your inability to use a 3 lane system effeciently is what caused people to have to undertake you.

Theboinkmaster

swingking wrote:

I'm fed up of people overtaking me on the inside. This is a common occurance on the Naas road; a 3 lane dual carrigeway.

I was driving 100 km/h in the middle lane and suddenly 2 cars overtook me on the inside travelling about 120 km/h. I've no problem with them overtaking me on the outside lane. I do it myself to slower cars, but never do I overtake on the inside.

It's against the law

Except for 3 reasons:

1. When turning left
2. When the outside lane is stopped
3. When car on the inside lane is turning right.

Why do people get away with this

Classic Irish driving ignorance - wouldn't be so bad but you come onto here trying to preach the rules to others :rolleyes:

JohnCleary

People undertake on the inside lane because 4rseholes are hogging the outside lanes

fletch

If you were that close to the junction, why were you cruising at 100kph? (And other road users were doing 120kph)

grumpytrousers

Just a propos the legality of 'undertaking'...the new Insurance Industry sanctioned 'rules of the road' flopped on the mat yesterday and, having passed the aul test god knows how many years ago i decided to peruse it to see how much the law had changed etc...(no need for a guy with a red flag to walk in front of the car any more - cool, huh:D)

anyhoo, and correct me please, (but i'm only basing this on the book i trust some others here are famililar with), but it seems that undertaking is not prohibited if the lane/traffic to ones right is moving slower. In other words, (and even as i type, i'm frowning cos i'm thinking 'does not compute') there seems to be no beef with 'undertaking'.

can somebody please point me in the direction of the oh-so-subtle point i'm obviously missing

Leeby

Is it possible that these two cars had just come on to the motorway?

markpb

grumpytrousers wrote:

anyhoo, and correct me please, (but i'm only basing this on the book i trust some others here are famililar with), but it seems that undertaking is not prohibited if the lane/traffic to ones right is moving slower. In other words, (and even as i type, i'm frowning cos i'm thinking 'does not compute') there seems to be no beef with 'undertaking'.

Does it not say that undertaking is allowed only in slow moving traffic without actually defining what slow might be? Presumably it's there to allow for sanity in a traffic jam in a town or city but would not normally be allowed on a DC or motorway?

grumpytrousers

markpb wrote:

Does it not say that undertaking is allowed only in slow moving traffic without actually defining what slow might be? Presumably it's there to allow for sanity in a traffic jam in a town or city but would not normally be allowed on a DC or motorway?

that's precisely it; it didn't. I don't have it to hand, but i'll try remember it tomorrow and quote...like i say, i've 'undertook' the occasional muppet meself, but always felt it's a wee bit naughty. Therefore having my rebelliousness called into question is hurting...:)

nialler

# There is no such thing as ‘fast’ or ‘slow’ lanes on motorways.
# The simple rule is that you drive in the nearside (left – hand) lane except when overtaking.
# Whether on a two or three lane motorway, the offside (right hand) lane is intended for overtaking.
# On a three lane motorway, you may stay in the centre lane while there is slower moving traffic in the nearside (left-hand) lane.
# Always be mindful of drivers trying to join the motorway from slip roads.

http://roads.southdublin.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=242&Itemid=289


Actually here's another situation, was in overtaking lane (after overtaking and going slightly over the 123kmh that I had set on cruise) coming up fairly quickly on truck travelling somewhere around 80-90kph, keeping an eye in mirrors and land rover catching me very very quickly indicated to move in but would have necessitated braking hardish and disengaging cruise kicked off indicator and floored it soon past truck moved in to let LR pass, would it have been more prudent to move back in to the nearside lane or what would you have done.

swingking

I don't consider myself a brilliant driver at all

Yes, I did pass my driving test and I'm not as experienced as others

But can all of us say we are brilliant drivers with no mistakes made

No-one admits they are wrong when it comes to drivers

So at least I'm honest

golden

swingking wrote:

I'm fed up of people overtaking me on the inside. This is a common occurance on the Naas road; a 3 lane dual carrigeway.

I was driving 100 km/h in the middle lane and suddenly 2 cars overtook me on the inside travelling about 120 km/h. I've no problem with them overtaking me on the outside lane. I do it myself to slower cars, but never do I overtake on the inside.

It's against the law

Except for 3 reasons:

1. When turning left
2. When the outside lane is stopped
3. When car on the inside lane is turning right.

Why do people get away with this

Its easy your not in the proper lane. Drive left and overtake right thats simple. If you follow that rule there would be nobody undertaking you.

Donald Fagen

swingking wrote:

I'm fed up of people overtaking me on the inside. This is a common occurance on the Naas road; a 3 lane dual carrigeway.

I was driving 100 km/h in the middle lane and suddenly 2 cars overtook me on the inside travelling about 120 km/h. I've no problem with them overtaking me on the outside lane. I do it myself to slower cars, but never do I overtake on the inside.

It's against the law

Except for 3 reasons:

1. When turning left
2. When the outside lane is stopped
3. When car on the inside lane is turning right.

Why do people get away with this

Wrong. You can overtake in the inside lane if *the traffic in the right lane is moving slower. It's in the ROTR book, Page 25, bullet pointed nice n' clear at the bottom of the page - I just checked it to be sure.

* This replaces your Point 2.
And your Point 3 should be "When car on the OUTSIDE lane is turning right."

You obviously just think you know the ROTR, yet you quoted 2 of them wrong That, added to the fact that you were in the wrong lane anyway.

So get off your high horse, and read the ROTR again. I overtake on the inside all the time, because there are usually idiots hogging the "fast" lane, as they call it...

swingking

Donald Fagen wrote:

usually idiots hogging the "fast" lane

keep reading the rules of the road and you'll learn that there is an overtaking lane not a fast lane.

Also, If you are allowed overtake when the cars in the right lane are going slower, when can you not overtake on the inside, it just doesn't make any sense.

When are you not allowed overtake on the inside

Theboinkmaster

swingking wrote:

keep reading the rules of the road and you'll learn that there is an overtaking lane not a fast lane.

:rolleyes: by god you're some muppet - he said 'the "fast" lane, as they call it...'

astraboy

swingking wrote:

keep reading the rules of the road and you'll learn that there is an overtaking lane not a fast lane.

And that, my son, is the reason he had "Fast lane" in inverted commas. It is indeed an overtaking lane. Why you were in the overtaking lane when the left lane was free I am not sure, however you hogging the middle lane is why people undertook you. Perhaps being a bit more aware of your surroundings next time on the dual carriageway would prevent people having to make this move, and also prevent you getting up on your high horse to preach to rules to us when we already know them and you clearly don't.

Beady

swingking wrote:

I don't consider myself a brilliant driver at all

Yes, I did pass my driving test and I'm not as experienced as others

Good that you realise that. The majority of people when told they've passed tend to hear "you're the best driver ever" and immediately proceed to pontificate about every other driver on the road while blinded to their own shortcomings, because, "I passed my test" The VAST majority of your driving skill, partly due to the abysmal level of training in Ireland will come from experience. Can I suggest that every time you see someone else doing something, that you think to be stupid or dangerous, ask yourself if your driving may have been a factor in them doing what they did? Most times it won't but occasionally you'll find that you learn something. As I said, experience.

swingking wrote:

But can all of us say we are brilliant drivers with no mistakes made

No, nobody can say that and anyone who does is probably way substandard, they just don't realise what mistakes they're making.

swingking wrote:

No-one admits they are wrong when it comes to drivers

Good drivers usually will, whether it's by gesture of apology for accidentally cutting somone up or analysing that "moment" they had.

Unfortunately though, by and large you are correct. Driving and parenting (incidentally, both primarily self taught) are the two things people will rarely or never admit to being bad at. There is enough stupidity on the roads and enough scumbag 12 year olds to suggest that there is a great deal of delusion on these matters.

swingking wrote:

So at least I'm honest

Well if you've learned anything from posting this it may be that it's not everyone elses fault all the time.

swingking

I've learned a good deal from posting this thread. Thanks to everyone for pointing out my mistake which I will correct in future.

Blitzkrieger

JohnCleary wrote:

People undertake on the inside lane because 4rseholes are hogging the outside lanes

"

fletch

Glad you were willing to take the slaggings as constructive criticism. Yay one less lane hogger in the country!

nialler

TBH there should have been an insert into the ROTR specifically dealing with this issue, we do not have that many triple carriageway roads in this country hence the lack of knowledge on how to use them, also coupled with the fact there is absolutely NO training on the use of motorways (my wife has a full licence and will NOT drive on the motorway and never has, but wants me to teach her) people generally haven't a bogs notion of how motorway driving is conducted most other countries I've driven in the rules are respected and adhered to but in Ireland to be honest it's a joke and you find yourself making stupid manouvers or being a complete pain in the arse flashing someone ahead cruising at 100kph after you've just overtook someone else and still in the farside/overtaking/fast/boyrace/lunatic lane.

Better education I say, and remove vanity mirrors on the driver's side, I've seen so many people doing hair n makeup in em.

ballooba

A vehicle travelling at 120kmph (33ms) gains 11 metres per second on a vehicle travelling at 80kmph (22ms). So If you are a car travelling 200 metres behind a 20 metre truck you need 20 seconds for the front of your car to reach the front of the truck. Add in another 20 metres to take in the length of your car and to provide a safe following distance and it is going to take you 22 seconds to overtake that truck. If there is any problems with my rough maths there then feel free to highlight them.

You often see people of our roads refusing to move into a gap a lot bigger than 200 metres and travelling slower than 120 kmph. It just unreasonable and ignorant.

nialler

1800 kilos, 5.2m in length, good brakes though, and not sure but have you ever tried to drive with cruise control in this country, it's a pain in the a*se to disengage then reengage.

Maths may very well explain in detail when dealing with distance/velocity and kinetic energy (I presume that would encompass weight). Unfortunately what it doesn't factor in is Judgement, what is judged or perceived to be a safe distance or not, so unfortunately science will not win through here.

Anan1

swingking wrote:

I've learned a good deal from posting this thread. Thanks to everyone for pointing out my mistake which I will correct in future.

Can't say fairer than that!:)

ballooba

nialler wrote:

1800 kilos, 5.2m in length, good brakes though, and not sure but have you ever tried to drive with cruise control in this country, it's a pain in the a*se to disengage then reengage.

Maths may very well explain in detail when dealing with distance/velocity and kinetic energy (I presume that would encompass weight). Unfortunately what it doesn't factor in is Judgement, what is judged or perceived to be a safe distance or not, so unfortunately science will not win through here.

?

What's all that about?

nialler

my thoughts exactly about your previous post. When have people time to do those calculations in any situation on the motorway. Call it ignorance if you want, but I put it down to experience and judgement and with experience comes better judgement. Some people may think at those speeds that 200m gap is perfectly acceptable and safe, some others may not and some again would think half that was safe.

You I presume answered my query about approaching an oncoming truck and whether I was out of line by not letting or rather feeling it not safe to pull into the left lane after indicating my intention seeing the Land Rover approaching me at a speed far in excess of 120kph and flooring it to get by the truck and get in then.

DrChoda

I'm actually sick of people driving slow in the passing lane. I'm tired of them causing massive backups simply because they have no clue how to drive on the motorway.
A simple rule to follow is, if you're not passing someone then get out of the passing lane for someone that might want to pass you.

To the OP, 3 lanes and you were in the middle and you give it all away when you say that 2 cars had to pass on the inside lane. This is easily because:
-you should have been on the inside lane
-the car in the outside lane should have been in the middle
-the 2 cars could continue their journey without 'offending' people by passing on the inside lane.

IMO I really feel that people driving too slow, or holding the passing lane well below the speed limit should be pulled over. If you are driving that slow, get off the motorway.

MAYPOP

has anyone actually read the OP's posts regarding the situation

ballooba

nialler wrote:

my thoughts exactly about your previous post. When have people time to do those calculations in any situation on the motorway. Call it ignorance if you want, but I put it down to experience and judgement and with experience comes better judgement. Some people may think at those speeds that 200m gap is perfectly acceptable and safe, some others may not and some again would think half that was safe.

You don't need to do those calculations every time. It's fairly standard that a truck with a speed limiter will be travelling at 80kmph on a motorway. It's also safe to assume that if the lane in front of you is empty that you will be travelling at the maximum allowed speed i.e. 120kmph. Therefore anything greater than 200 metres is more than adequate to let a faster moving vehicle behind you pass.

nialler wrote:

You I presume answered my query about approaching an oncoming truck and whether I was out of line by not letting or rather feeling it not safe to pull into the left lane after indicating my intention seeing the Land Rover approaching me at a speed far in excess of 120kph and flooring it to get by the truck and get in then.

I should hope there are no oncoming trucks on a motorway. Otherwise you are in a whole other world of trouble.

A car travelling at 130kmph gains 3ms over a car travelling 120kmph. So if the LR is travelling a fast as you say then he will be long gone in half the time it would take you to pass the truck.

commited

I DETEST middle lane hoggers. Use the inside lane, it's not just for trucks.

I think Boards.ie should run some simple ads like this. It's not like the government will, all their ads show are not to drink and drive (common sense and generally socially unacceptable these days) and not to hit vtec y0!

The overtaking ads that they ran are similar to what should be run - if people are going to be allowed to drive around without a full license, then educate them from the TV as they arent going to bother educating themselved.

/rant over.

mobpd

commited wrote:

I DETEST middle lane hoggers. Use the inside lane, it's not just for trucks.

I think Boards.ie should run some simple ads like this. It's not like the government will, all their ads show are not to drink and drive (common sense and generally socially unacceptable these days) and not to hit vtec y0!

The overtaking ads that they ran are similar to what should be run - if people are going to be allowed to drive around without a full license, then educate them from the TV as they arent going to bother educating themselved.

/rant over.

I requested action on tackling Middle Lane Hoggers from the authorities who supposedly have this capacity:
1. ROAD SAFETY AUTHORITY - First response was a "well it is OK to undertake on the inside if slower traffic in middle lane" - DOH. 2nd response was this is an issue for enforcement (garda) or signage (NRA)
2. NATIONAL ROADS AUTHORITY - Accepted that there was an issue with MLH and would see if the gantry signs could be used to display a "drive in left hand lane unless overtaking" message - but, surprise, never actioned
3. GARDA - seeing as it is a pointable offence for driving in the wrong lane - no response

goz83

swingking wrote:

I'm fed up of people overtaking me on the inside. This is a common occurance on the Naas road; a 3 lane dual carrigeway.

I was driving 100 km/h in the middle lane and suddenly 2 cars overtook me on the inside travelling about 120 km/h. I've no problem with them overtaking me on the outside lane. I do it myself to slower cars, but never do I overtake on the inside.

It's against the law

Except for 3 reasons:

1. When turning left
2. When the outside lane is stopped
3. When car on the inside lane is turning right.

Why do people get away with this

I was testing out the new beamer. making sure it could overtake in the inside lane.

Gatster

I was testing out the new beamer. making sure it could overtake in the inside lane.

Troll feeding abounds...but hopefully not.

nialler

ballooba wrote:

You don't need to do those calculations every time. It's fairly standard that a truck with a speed limiter will be travelling at 80kmph on a motorway. It's also safe to assume that if the lane in front of you is empty that you will be travelling at the maximum allowed speed i.e. 120kmph. Therefore anything greater than 200 metres is more than adequate to let a faster moving vehicle behind you pass.

I should hope there are no oncoming trucks on a motorway. Otherwise you are in a whole other world of trouble.

A car travelling at 130kmph gains 3ms over a car travelling 120kmph. So if the LR is travelling a fast as you say then he will be long gone in half the time it would take you to pass the truck.

oh ffs I knew the oncoming (it was heading towards me) was going to haunt me, stop being a pedantic bitch please quoting science as a means to make you seem intelligent, YOU knew what I mean (I was 40kph faster than nearside lane vehicle). So it was heading towards me meaning it was oncoming, and please do not quote thesauras.com or whatever next you've got up your sleeve to give some veil of competence.

and again as a final point you use the words "safe to assume" and going by your maths, no thanks, I'd rather not assume (because assuming gets you killed) and judge what I feel and have experienced as correct and safe a time to move into the driving lane.

Maths/Physics count for nowt, judgement/experience/knowledge count moreso. And to err is human.


And balloba my argument/views do not involve you, lets agree to differ please. Lest you want to comment on the missing apostrophe.

John R

mobpd wrote:

I requested action on tackling Middle Lane Hoggers from the authorities who supposedly have this capacity:


2. NATIONAL ROADS AUTHORITY - Accepted that there was an issue with MLH and would see if the gantry signs could be used to display a "drive in left hand lane unless overtaking" message - but, surprise, never actioned

That would be the same NRA that installed gantry signs on the M50 that tell people to use the overtaking lane to remain on the M50 while the driving lane is signed only for the next exit.

AndrewMc

John R wrote:

That would be the same NRA that installed gantry signs on the M50 that tell people to use the overtaking lane to remain on the M50 while the driving lane is signed only for the next exit.

And the same NRA that put up gantry signs on the Naas Road telling (or very strongly suggesting) people to use the middle or right lane unless taking the next exit.

fletch

AndrewMc wrote:

And the same NRA that put up gantry signs on the Naas Road telling (or very strongly suggesting) people to use the middle or right lane unless taking the next exit.

Yes I was going down the N7 for the first time last week and I felt like a drunk having to constantly change lane (It was dark, raining and visibility was very poor so I was scared if I didn't obey the signs I might plow into a ditch/edge of road/bollard). How in Gods name were these signs approved?!?!

Hagar

Beady wrote:

I'll presume your car is equipped with brakes, an accelerator, mirrors, indicators and probably a steering wheel! Through skillful manipulation of these controls it should be perfectly possible, for a competent driver, to...

That is the best post I've seen in a long time.

Nialler wrote:

going slightly over the 123kmh that I had set on cruise

Why in the name of all that's holy would someone deliberately set a cruise control to exceed the speed limit by 3kmh?

Nialler wrote:

have you ever tried to drive with cruise control in this country, it's a pain in the a*se to disengage then reengage.

Doesn't touching the brakes dis-engage cruise control? Then just touch the cruise control button again to re-engage at previous speed. Not much of a hassle really. But you did know that's how it worked didn't you? I mean you weren't really unsetting and resetting a speed via the cruise control switch each time each time? You haven't read the instructions yet, have you? Dear oh dear.

Donald Fagen

Hagar wrote:

Why in the name of all that's holy would someone deliberately set a cruise control to exceed the speed limit by 3kmh?

Because you're allowed a tolerance of 10% of your speed.

Seth Brundle

swingking wrote:

But can all of us say we are brilliant drivers with no mistakes made

No-one admits they are wrong when it comes to drivers

I can honestly put my hands up and say that Im a brilliant driver!
I don't think Im wrong but I could be mistaken!

Hagar wrote:

Why in the name of all that's holy would someone deliberately set a cruise control to exceed the speed limit by 3kmh?

Maybe their sat nav pointed out their true speed @ 120km/h to be displayed on the speedo to be 123km/h

Seth Brundle

Donald Fagen wrote:

Because you're allowed a tolerance of 10% of your speed.

You are not allowed a tolerance of 10%! Your speedo may however be out and sometimes the gardai account for this.

prospect

I regularly travel on the inside lane of the N7 with my cruise control set to 100Km/h (approx 98Km/h on my Sat nav).

The number of cars in the middle lane I pass is amazing. I don't care really, I don't consider it 'overtakeing' as such, I am travelling at a constant legal speed in the correct position on the road. If other morans want to travel slower in a lane they should not be in, thats their business.

Anan1

prospect wrote:

If other morans want to travel slower in a lane they should not be in, thats their business.

It can quickly become your business if they decide to change lanes without looking/signalling. Always make liberal use of the horn when 'undertaking'.