Irish Drivers - Have we gotten that bad?

Undercoverguy

Bold title I know lol

Anyway hear my story.
For 2 months this year i was working in the states and driving over there, then once i got back i was working up in Belfast straight away - driving up there also. Its only in the past month i've managed to get back on Irish roads and i'm starting to think we have somehow become some of the worst drivers on earth in respect of some of the most basic things. I'm not even the first to think this us, up north we have gotten ourselves of being REALLY bad drivers. Now I'm not saying by any means i'm i perfect driver, i know that i have my bad habits and flaws but i doubt noting compared to this. I'm not making a jab at learner drivers either, but i really cannot wait until the driving test list is under control because perhaps then some type of system would be put in place where if you fail - your off the road. Like every other country in the world if your deemed not fit for driving by a tester than you shouldn't drive simple as that. There’s handful of things that really get up my nose here just 4.

1) - The smallest yet biggest offender. The traffic lights, since the day i first start driving i was always told to be READY to pull of the second the light goes green. So since day dot when i see the lights go red for the other traffic i get ready to pull off for when my light goes green. Most junctions have an identical pattern so its not like people don’t know when its gonna be their turn, yet some people look at the light go green AND THEN put the car into gear, put the handbrake down and start to pull of. Not a major thing but when rush hour traffic in the city is at its peak and light changes are brief its one of the most annoying.

2) - Merging on motorways (M50 Doesn’t count because its not a motorway far as I'm concerned at the moment). This does my head in but to be honest i don't even know if its in the rules of the road. When i'm on a motorway and passing the slips, if i see a car coming down to join the motorway i always (when possible) move over into the overtaking lane, allowing the cars from the slip to freely merge and get up to speed or whatever, then i move back over into the normal lane. Yet when i'm coming down any slip i notice that despite the overtaking lane being empty, nobody moves and your left trying to merge before the markings end, speeding up and slowing down. I guess this also covers people who just WILL NOT let people merge with them no matter what, even at roadwork’s or in just general traffic. Taximen biggest offender at that.

3) The epileptic break lights. This does my NUT in. During non peak time in Dublin when traffic is moving well what is with peoples obsession with ‘breaking - speeding up - breaking - speeding up’. A good driver should be able to regulate their speed and keep their distance decent enough so that if the car in front does break briefly (tap the breaks) that you don't have to follow suit. I personally just keep my distance, and when i see the lights go red on the car in front i just stop accelerating and by the time i get up everyones moving again. Dunno if you guys will know what i mean by this tho.

4) Yellow boxes. Do people know what they mean anymore? To get into my estate i need to turn through one and every single time I’ve arrive at it this week theres been a car in it waiting for traffic to move meaning i end up blocking the traffic behind me waiting or move up the road and turn around.

5) THE BIGGEST AND MOST ANNOYING FOR ME :rolleyes:
Blocking the left turn lane. We all know city and town traffic is muck at the best of times but some people just make this worse. At most big junctions these days there are dedicated left turn lanes with pretty much constant flashing amber-lights at them. These lanes are normally just before the main junction lights, the way this is meant to work is that traffic going straight queue in the right lane, and traffic turning left uses the left lane to go into the slip. Yet some gob****s move into this left lane, go right up to the red lights and stop, 3 or 4 other gob****s normally follow and then before ya know it the traffic for the left lane has move back to the miniature left-turn slip. So traffic wanting to turn left has to wait for the 5 gob****s going straight to get the green light. The amount of traffic this causes i'd say is unreal, certainly around my area anyway.

Rant over..... :mad: No doubt someone is gonna come on now and argue at me about this so i'll be waiting, there just my points anyway and if i'm wrong hopefully someone can correct me. Feel free to add to this guys.

But my question is does anyone else notice all these things tho? Or is it just me? :cool:

biko

I totally agree, especially with number 3. If you drive slowly in first gear you usually can maintain motion without leaving a massive gap between yourself and the car in front.

ballooba

Not looking for a keyboard warrior type face-off, but two questions:
2) Shouldn't you be already at motorway speed coming off the on-ramp?
5) What about cars going straight ahead, will they not get stuck behind cars turning right?

BTW, on 1) that's the worst one ever. In UK they have amber before green. Why can't we have it?

Undercoverguy

Hey ballooba dont worry i aint for a face off either lol

2) Yea cars should be up to speed already but even if your going the exact same speed the problem mergining will always be there if there is traffic in the lane, regarless of speed. Some slips are pretty short too. :P

5) True for some junctions but in the area i live (malahide road at tesco) There is also a dedicated lane for turning right, altho this cannot be used to go straight ahead because you'd end up on one of the traffic island.

ballooba

The on ramp from the M50 onto the M1 is scandalous. The other problem of course is tailgating. You should be able to merge effectively between two vehicles in the driving lane if they are driving with correct distance between them.

I have taken to the habit of pacing myself off other cars when coming up the M1 and staying a proper distance behind them. If I find numpties I move on.

Not entirely familiar with that junction at Clarehall. Quite a wide road though, so I kind of see what you mean. I was thinking of roads with two lanes.

Stark

Undercoverguy wrote:

if i see a car coming down to join the motorway i always (when possible) move over into the overtaking lane, allowing the cars from the slip to freely merge and get up to speed or whatever, then i move back over into the normal lane.

In most cases, they should be able to get up to speed in the slip lane.

ballooba wrote:

BTW, on 1) that's the worst one ever. In UK they have amber before green. Why can't we have it?

On the N3/M50 interchange, they had an amber light attached to one of the main traffic light that showed when the light was about to go green for a few weeks. Then they took it down again Don't know why, it didn't look like the experiment was a failure.

Undercoverguy

Ah yea i know what ya mean now with two lane roads. But the way things normally work is, if a car start waiting to turn right then people start using the left lane and just kinda undertake if ya get me.

M1 Slip is MENTAL, most dangerous slip by far, including whatever the hell thats going on over at mad cow central lol More hills and ramps than a skate park, take the lucan exit too fast too and ya find none of you wheeles on the ground lol

Wishbone Ash

Undercoverguy wrote:

we have somehow become some of the worst drivers on earth

I've seen much worst standards of driving in other countries.

Undercoverguy wrote:

Like every other country in the world if your deemed not fit for driving by a tester than you shouldn't drive simple as that

It would be necessary to know what the standard of the driving test was like in those countries before making a comparison. In some countries, it is only necessary to do a very basic straightforward manoeuvre to be deemed to have passed a driving test.

Undercoverguy wrote:

really get up my nose......... most annoying.......does my head in .......This does my NUT in .........MOST ANNOYING FOR ME.....

Perhaps you don't have the proper frame of mind needed to drive here but I agree with most of your sentiments.

unkel

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I've seen much worst standards of driving in other countries

In any other EU(15) country?

Dr. Loon

ballooba wrote:

The on ramp from the M50 onto the M1 is scandalous.

Truly unbelievable! Was just thinking about this today as I attempted to merge with a bunch of tailgaiting pricks! It is amazingly dangerous, it's so short.

blastman

Agree wholeheartedly about the M1/M50 slip. I thought I was the only one!

BeardyGit

I agree with Stark regarding merging from a slip.....You should already be up to speed as you enter the motorway.

Personally, I can't understand the kind of idiots who think it's okay to pull right into the overtaking lane, maintaining their speed of say 100kph, just to allow someone merge from the left. In the meantime they're slowing down traffic waiting to pass, contributing to the whole mania that's become of motorway driving here. Why don't they leave space between them and the car in front in order to allow the car merge on the left? That's the way it's supposed to be done.....

OP, you actually contribute to the problem through your actions.

Heinrich

Gil_Dub wrote:

I agree with Stark regarding merging from a slip.....You should already be up to speed as you enter the motorway.

Personally, I can't understand the kind of idiots who think it's okay to pull right into the overtaking lane, maintaining their speed of say 100kph, just to allow someone merge from the left. In the meantime they're slowing down traffic waiting to pass, contributing to the whole mania that's become of motorway driving here. Why don't they leave space between them and the car in front in order to allow the car merge on the left? That's the way it's supposed to be done.....

OP, you actually contribute to the problem through your actions.

Yet when i'm coming down any slip i notice that despite the overtaking lane being empty, nobody moves and your left trying to merge before the markings end, speeding up and slowing down.

cyclopath2001

Gil_Dub wrote:

I agree with Stark regarding merging from a slip.....You should already be up to speed as you enter the motorway.

Normally yes, but picture this: You're on the M1 northbound heading for the airport, so as you pass the M50 sliproad, you're lining up for the upcoming left turn.

Traffic is crowded, but flowing, there's a 80kph limit there, and most people obeying it, there's some bunching, gaps are about 2-3 car lengths at best. Meanwhile, you've got two lanes of traffic coming down the ramp on your left doing 120+, overtaking on the inside and looking to slip through the gaps and merge into the already busy outside lane on your right. At the same time the guys not observing the 80kph limit, who've been flying down the outside at 120+ start barging into the same gaps as they're heading for the airport too.

It's a very special moment.

BeardyGit

The point Heinrich is that there's no reason to move into the overtaking lane, empty or not (and let's face it - if it's the M50 it's usually far from empty), if the clowns just leave a safe distance between their vehicles....Anyone entering a motorway should be driving a vehicle in which they can adjust their pace to merge safely in the space provided.

BeardyGit

cyclopath2001 wrote:

Normally yes, but picture this: You're on the M1 northbound heading for the airport, so as you pass the M50 sliproad, you're lining up for the upcoming left turn.

Traffic is crowded, but flowing, there's a 80kph limit there, and most people obeying it, there's some bunching, gaps are about 2-3 car lengths at best. Meanwhile, you've got two lanes of traffic coming down the ramp on your left doing 120+, overtaking on the inside and looking to slip through the gaps and merge into the already busy outside lane on your right. At the same time the guys not observing the 80kph limit, who've been flying down the outside at 120+ start barging into the same gaps as they're heading for the airport too.

It's a very special moment.

I'll agree with you there - The M50/M1 junctions, both sides of the M1, are an experience to say the least.... <shivers>

Heinrich

:rolleyes:

Gil_Dub wrote:

The point Heinrich is that there's no reason to move into the overtaking lane, empty or not (and let's face it - if it's the M50 it's usually far from empty), if the clowns just leave a safe distance between their vehicles....Anyone entering a motorway should be driving a vehicle in which they can adjust their pace to merge safely in the space provided.

In the meantime they're slowing down traffic waiting to pass

DonJose

ballooba wrote:

The on ramp from the M50 onto the M1 is scandalous.

That is pure bad planning, there is plenty of road to improve the merging of traffic at that off-ramp, I think they just don't want to mess their nice white painted lines

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Dublin,+Ireland&ie=UTF8&ll=53.416477,-6.222988&spn=0.001803,0.005799&t=k&z=18&om=1

BeardyGit

Heinrich wrote:

:rolleyes:

I'm not modifying my 'arguement'. Let me spell it out for you:

If you're overtaking, you have business in the overtaking lane.

If you're moving right *solely* to allow traffic onto the motorway, you have no business being in the overtaking lane.

Is that simple enough? Or is the pedant in you chomping at the bit to come back with some other petty retort? If so, may I suggest you go play with yourself instead?

Bluetonic

Undercoverguy wrote:

I personally just keep my distance, and when i see the lights go red on the car in front i just stop accelerating and by the time i get up everyones moving again. Dunno if you guys will know what i mean by this tho.

If you do this then your not in control of your car. At no stage should you just stop accelerating without the intention of using your brake.

Blitzkrieger

We don't have enough driver training here.

We also tend to be defensive about how good we are at driving and trying to correct or advise someone can lead to a confrontation. The IAM try to instill an attitude that nobody's a perfect driver and we should always accept criticism and try to learn.

Rovi

Bluetonic wrote:

If you do this then your not in control of your car. At no stage should you just stop accelerating without the intention of using your brake.

:eek: WTF?
This may apply if you're racing motocross or somesuch, but it's an insane strategy for use on the public road.

siralfalot

Bluetonic wrote:

If you do this then your not in control of your car. At no stage should you just stop accelerating without the intention of using your brake.

WTF???

so how is the WRC going for you this season? :rolleyes:

Bluetonic

Rovi wrote:

:eek: WTF?
This may apply if you're racing motocross or somesuch, but it's an insane strategy for use on the public road.

So your telling me you think it's a a safe way to drive neither accelerating nor braking, basically letting you car drive under previous momentum whilst you steer. I suppose you slip it out of gear too and let it freewheel along.

Jesus wept.

siralfalot

I prefer to drive to the top of big hills, turn off the engine and let it roll, ... WEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!......................:D

seriously though, ever heard of engine braking? just because you have to back off the power does not mean you need to apply brakes, to you cruise control must be an appliance of the devil??

Bluetonic

siralfalot wrote:

seriously though, ever heard of engine braking?

Ever heard of coasting?

Relying on engine braking reduces driver control.

siralfalot wrote:

just because you have to back off the power does not mean you need to apply brakes, to you cruise control must be an appliance of the devil??

I am referring to the OP saying 'i just stop accelerating' not backing off the power. You stand corrected.

Linford

Bluetonic wrote:

Ever heard of coasting?

Relying on engine braking reduces driver control.


I am referring to the OP saying 'i just stop accelerating' not backing off the power. You stand corrected.

You are not driving correctly if you need to use the brakes everytime you want to reduce your speed.

What is the difference between the the OP saying that he stops accelerating and you saying that you back off the power? They are one in the same, you take your foot off the accelerator! If you are going up a hill or even down a hill (not pushing in the clutch) your speed will be reduced or steadied. It is very different to coasting.

Engine breaking also refers to changing down gear, I think this can actually improve driver control....

Rovi

Bluetonic wrote:

So your telling me you think it's a a safe way to drive neither accelerating nor braking, basically letting you car drive under previous momentum whilst you steer. I suppose you slip it out of gear too and let it freewheel along.

Jesus wept.

Are you seriously stating that you should either be on the accelerator or the brakes at all times?
It must be an absolute joy to be in the car directly ahead of or immediately behind someone doing this. :rolleyes:

Bluetonic

Rovi wrote:

Are you seriously stating that you should either be on the accelerator or the brakes at all times?

Easing off one to the other, not immediate shifts from one to the other.

Simple matter is if your not on one of the other while your car is moving your less in control of your vehicle, agreed?

Tabnabs

I'd love to see the state of your brakes on long down hills. The brake fade would be staggering.

Scary stuff...

Rovi

Bluetonic wrote:

Easing off one to the other, not immediate shifts from one to the other.

Simple matter is if your not on one of the other while your car is moving your less in control of your vehicle, agreed?

No, not agreed.

How on earth do you drive along at a steady pace using this 'system?'

Bluetonic

Rovi wrote:

No, not agreed.

How on earth do you drive along at a steady pace using this 'system?'

Let me simply this.

Do you think you are more in control of a car whilst?

(a) accelerating or braking
(b) coasting

As a hint, you'd fail the driving test for coasting.

I don't for one minute minute disagree that you can't slow down by deaccelerating, and you don't always have to touch the brake. My original comment is based on the OP saying 'i just stop accelerating', which I take to mean he lifts his foot off the accelerator and coasts. Maybe he means he deaccelerates.

Heinrich

Gil_Dub wrote:

I'm not modifying my 'arguement'. Let me spell it out for you:

If you're overtaking, you have business in the overtaking lane.

If you're moving right *solely* to allow traffic onto the motorway, you have no business being in the overtaking lane.

Is that simple enough? Or is the pedant in you chomping at the bit to come back with some other petty retort? If so, may I suggest you go play with yourself instead?

Petty retort of the day.:rolleyes:

Good driving is based on using your head. If the overtaking lane is solely for overtaking then why is it jam packed as you claim? As the OP stated, if there is nothing in the overtaking lane and he feels comfortable by temporarily moving there then there is no harm in that. However , on the subject of pedatry please review your second and third paragraphs! That is pedantry.

Always enjoy an intelligent comment as per the red highlights.

Tabnabs

Um, you do understand exactly what coasting means don't you? i.e. with the clutch fully pressed down. No one here has mentioned anything at all about doing that...

unkel

I'd hate to be a passenger in your car, Bluetonic

Zapho

Bluetonic wrote:

Easing off one to the other, not immediate shifts from one to the other.

Simple matter is if your not on one of the other while your car is moving your less in control of your vehicle, agreed?

Competely disagree. Once your engine is connected directly to your wheels, you are in full control of your car. Coasting is the only situation that you don't have full control of your car.
By what you've just said, you either have to be accelerating or braking all the time, no in between. Now besides the absolute waste of fuel that is, and of course the hard time you're gonna have keeping your car under the speed limit, how on earth can you explain that you're in control of your car by doing this?

Anyway what annoys me most on Irish roads (bearing in mind, I don't have any experience driving in foreign countries so I don't know what its like elsewhere) is the improper use or complete lack of use of indicators. Especially on roundabouts. Its not only annoying for drivers, but pedestrians too!

ballooba

Dr. Loon wrote:

Truly unbelievable! Was just thinking about this today as I attempted to merge with a bunch of tailgaiting pricks! It is amazingly dangerous, it's so short.

Use the lane for the Airport and merge further up the road. Unorthodox but safer.

Bluetonic

Dyflin wrote:

No one here has mentioned anything at all about doing that...

I should just stop myself any further, I appear to be making up parts of this thread in my head that don't exist!

Opps! Was sure I read something different!!! I blame too much coffee in the morning.

cornbb

Rovi wrote:

No, not agreed.

How on earth do you drive along at a steady pace using this 'system?'

If you are just driving along steadily at 100kph or whatever its necessary to keep constant pressure on the accelerator to keep the car moving, unless you are going downhill or something. Maybe the confusion here is the difference between "accelerating" and "keeping your foot down on the accelerator", which doesn't necessarily equate to accelerating. If intending to slow down you should use the brakes, not just drift. Of course it can be done steadily/smoothly.

ballooba

cyclopath2001 wrote:

Meanwhile, you've got two lanes of traffic coming down the ramp on your left doing 120+, overtaking on the inside and looking to slip through the gaps and merge into the already busy outside lane on your right.

Speed limit on the slip is 80kmph AFAIR.

siralfalot

Zapho wrote:

Competely disagree. Once your engine is connected directly to your wheels, you are in full control of your car. Coasting is the only situation that you don't have full control of your car.
By what you've just said, you either have to be accelerating or braking all the time, no in between. Now besides the absolute waste of fuel that is, and of course the hard time you're gonna have keeping your car under the speed limit, how on earth can you explain that you're in control of your car by doing this?

exactly

Zapho wrote:

Anyway what annoys me most on Irish roads (bearing in mind, I don't have any experience driving in foreign countries so I don't know what its like elsewhere) is the improper use or complete lack of use of indicators. Especially on roundabouts. Its not only annoying for drivers, but pedestrians too!

roundabouts in this country are a disaster, nobody seems to know, A. which is the proper lane to use, and B. how to use indicators on them

Wook

Zapho wrote:

Anyway what annoys me most on Irish roads is the improper use or complete lack of use of indicators. Especially on roundabouts. Its not only annoying for drivers, but pedestrians too!

signed , agreed, my pet hate from drivers

xabi

Gil_Dub wrote:

If you're moving right *solely* to allow traffic onto the motorway, you have no business being in the overtaking lane.

Thats wrong, the overtaking lane can be used to accommodate merging traffic.

X.

Fey!

For point motorway merging; in a lot of countries, every second car must allow a merge, so that the traffic becomes motorway/merger/motorway/merger/etc...

As for the "decelerating" issue, as said above, taking your foot off the accelerator to slow down whilst in gear isn't coasting.

Plissken1

siralfalot wrote:

exactly




roundabouts in this country are a disaster, nobody seems to know, A. which is the proper lane to use, and B. how to use indicators on them

Yes, and the biggest offenders are people with full licences, they seem to think they no longer have to follow the rules once they have that pink bit of paper. You need a crystal ball on your dash board, so you can work out what the other driver is going to do next.

ballooba

Plissken1 wrote:

Yes, and the biggest offenders are people with full licences, they seem to think they no longer have to follow the rules once they have that pink bit of paper. You need a crystal ball on your dash board, so you can work out what the other driver is going to do next.

That's actually a funny angle on it I have never heard. I personally use roundabouts properly because I don't want to be in an accident. I think you may be referring to people who got their licences before roundabouts existed and don't actually know how to use them. This is why I think traffic school would be a good idea in this country for people with a certain level of points or specific offences.

stovelid

Can I add drivers trying to merge at a snail's pace. :mad:

I've been behind the same car - twice- recently as they crawl down the slip onto the M50 at Firhouse, obviously afraid to merge. The last time she actually came to a halt in the slip lane!!! This sums up Ireland for me. Too afraid to use the motorway but selfish enough to insist on using it for convenience.

layke

Heinrich wrote:

Petty retort of the day.:rolleyes:

Good driving is based on using your head. If the overtaking lane is solely for overtaking then why is it jam packed as you claim? As the OP stated, if there is nothing in the overtaking lane and he feels comfortable by temporarily moving there then there is no harm in that. However , on the subject of pedatry please review your second and third paragraphs! That is pedantry.

Always enjoy an intelligent comment as per the red highlights.

People are tits. It's because people don't drive at the speed limit in the driving lane so everyone hops into the overtaking to drive faster. I am no exception to this either, suffice to say if the lane is clear or moving at the correct speed i'll happily drive in it. This really only happens because someone decides to do say 80km/h on the m50 and leave a huge tail so you get people overtaking 20 cars or so in one go which may as well mean driving in the overtaking lane.

Now the harm is i'm doing my 120km/h you hop into my lane at 80km/h quite simply, get out of my way. If the driver entering the motorway is anyway competant he will match the speed of the traffic, you as the person already on the motorway need only tap your brakes to drop back a bit giving him enough room to enter safely. It's a two way process and that's how it should work.

Undercoverguy

OP Returns lol

Ok when i said "I just stop accelerating" some people read too much into this, although i could maybe have phrased it a bit better.

I meant that i ease off the acceleration, allowing the car to slow down SLIGHTLY...
Back in my days of lessons i was always told "Whats the point of accelerating towards break lights?" Anyone who sees break lights ahead of them and still continues to accelerate and pick up speed going towards them should be shot!

For the merging, I said i didn't know if it was a rule of the road or even a recommendation from the RSA, its just sense if the lane is empty. Lets face it most people DON'T join a motorway at the correct speed for merging.... their either too slow or too fast.

But anyway - Overtaking, isn't that what i am essentially doing? If someone joins the motorway in front of me traveling slower than me, the only option is to overtake. Only difference is that I'm doing it as i see the slow car joining the motorway rather than waiting for them to be right in front of me. Sorry if this upsets the 'L' Plate drivers on the M50/M1 doing 160kmh in their Toyota Glanza or any high powered BWM drivers.

For the guy who said you should never stop accelerating, you should be taken off the road. How do you stop at junctions etc? Accelerate right up the the line and then do a sudden clutch and break stop? Either suddenly and make the car behind ya slam into ya, or have the break lights on a few hundred meters before the lights - meaning the longest break fade on the planet.

Acceleration: increasing in speed; becoming progressively faster; "the accelerating inflation was cause for great concern"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

layke

Undercoverguy wrote:

For the merging, I said i didn't know if it was a rule of the road or even a recommendation from the RSA, its just sense if the lane is empty. Lets face it most people DON'T join a motorway at the correct speed for merging.... their either too slow or too fast.

I know, especially pentioners. This is due to lack of driver training in the country. I would suggest everyone reads the UK rules of the road as they are similar (but not exact). They have a much better structured test and information on how to indicate around roundabouts, joining motorways and the like. Tbh if we modeld our own tests on what they have it would be much better.

Overtaking, isn't that what i am essentially doing? If someone joins the motorway in front of me traveling slower than me, the only option is to overtake. Only difference is that i'm doing it as i see the car joining the motorway rather than waiting for them to be right in front of me.

The point a lot of people are making is that you shouldn't have to enter the overtaking lane at all.

Plissken1

ballooba wrote:

That's actually a funny angle on it I have never heard. I personally use roundabouts properly because I don't want to be in an accident. I think you may be referring to people who got their licences before roundabouts existed and don't actually know how to use them. This is why I think traffic school would be a good idea in this country for people with a certain level of points or specific offences.

Nah, the biggest idiots on the roads today are full licence holders, they are arrogant, and no longer follow the rules of the road (not everyone of course). I find that at least L drivers are busy learning for their test, so they at least try to let you know what they will do next.