Motorway driving / rules

Alun

Davidth88 wrote:

But why should I have to contact then , don't the police patrol the motorway , don't they report things that are dangerous ? I guess not !

In the UK you regularly see all kinds of vehicles with "MOTORWAY MAINTENANCE" signs on them patrolling up and down the motorways.

Davidth88

I haven't lived in the UK for a few years, but now when I drive over there you see loads of what look like police cars marked

Motorway Incident Team or something , it seems the highways agency have now got their own patrol force.

I am actually shocked at the lack of policing/patrolling here , no-one seems to care that L plated cars drive on the motorways , that people stop on the motorway etc . Then when a horrible pile up occurs like the one in Kildare earlier this year , people are surprised.

Talking about Kildare , has anyone driven the M7 recently ,

a) What are the road' works' for , whenever I pass there no one isever working there
b) Does no one check the temp markings? They are highly dangerous/badly laid out it's an accident waiting to happen.

Terrontress

Alun wrote:

In the UK you regularly see all kinds of vehicles with "MOTORWAY MAINTENANCE" signs on them patrolling up and down the motorways.

The Highways Agency!

They drive Shoguns and Range Rovers designed to look like Police Cars but are limited to the 70mph limit.

Apparently they often get emergency calls and then sit at 70 while everyone else going about their business overtakes them at 80!

Alun

Terrontress wrote:

They drive Shoguns and Range Rovers designed to look like Police Cars but are limited to the 70mph limit.

Apparently they often get emergency calls and then sit at 70 while everyone else going about their business overtakes them at 80!

Yeah, I know them well! You can usually spot them when you get closer, but from a distance they look uncannily like police vehicles!

There are similar vehicles to be seen on the major non-motorway routes these days as well. I've seen them on a few occasions parked a safe distance behind broken down cars with all their flashing lights ablaze to warn oncoming traffic of a broken down vehicle. I'm not sure whether they were from the Highways Agency, or one of the 3rd party road maintenance companies that seem to be sprouting up there recently, but it's a damn good idea either way.

murphaph

The HA have responsibility for ALL trunk roads in England & wales. Trunk roads incorporate (AFAIK) all motorways but also many hundreds of miles of A road. The UK trunk network is funded centrally while non-trunk A roads, B roads and unclassified roads are funded locally. It's not entrirely dissimilar to here, only done properly.

Wishbone Ash

jlang wrote:

what's an "invalid carriage"? All I can think of is an ambulance and surely they aren't banned from the motorway network.

I always presumed that they were those little sit-on electric buggies that some older people use.

mackerski

DerekP11 wrote:

We are currently paying the price for a very very badly educated driving population, in terms of motorways. They're a reletively recent road type in Ireland. Therefore;

We've had them since about 1983. That's not my idea of recent.

DerekP11 wrote:

1. We have many drivers who did a driving test at a time when the rules of the road booklet made no reference to motorways as they didn't exist in Ireland.

This is partially right. It took more than 10 years after the Naas Bypass opened to get some (pretty useless) references to motorways into the ROTR, so while many drivers qualified without motorway info, that wasn't because we didn't have any.

Victor

Davidth88 wrote:

a) What are the road' works' for , whenever I pass there no one isever working there

The builder's holidays are on at the moment.

Civilian_Target

Davidth88 wrote:

I have seen quite a few instances of push-bikes on the M4 , about 1 per week.

That doesn't surprise me. I was following a signed "cycle route" one night in Clonee and found, to my surprise, that I was on a sliproad down to the N3 (hadn't realised it was a sliproad until I was half way down it, with no clear, safe way of coming back up it!)

What followed was several miles of terror on a pushbike in the hard shoulder to the next exit, in the dark, in the winter, with people clearly violating the 100kmph speed limit less than a metre from my bike. Never been so glad for lights and a reflective vest!

So quite possibly not the cyclists fault, there might just be some bad signage...

DerekP11

To the proposer, seconder and supporters in the "Derek is wrong" category.

I know for a fact that agricultural vehicles are banned from UK motorways. I admit that I confused my recollection of signage with the UK. Irish signage does indeed omit the term "agricultural vehicle". My own knowledge is based on study of motorway rules from driving experience in Germany and the UK and a general interest in the concept. Unfortunately the DOT and NRA are closed as I type, so the only evidence I could find to support my incredulous claim is here;

http://www.mayococo.ie/en/Services/Roads/RoadSafety/MotorwayDriving/

Ironically its from the west of Ireland and that region hasn't got motorways.
The debate will continue so. Interpretation will explode amongst the more bored. Frankly no motorway should have a tractor and trailer trundling along it.

Wishbone Ash

DerekP11 wrote:

I know for a fact that agricultural vehicles are banned from UK motorways

That is indeed correct.

cast_iron

jlang wrote:

but what's an "invalid carriage"?

And to add to my confusion, I was taking it to mean "not valid".

Wishbone Ash

cast_iron wrote:

And to add to my confusion, I was taking it to mean "not valid".

LMAO (I never thought of it like that!)

Wishbone Ash

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I always presumed that they were those little sit-on electric buggies that some older people use.

Like this.

Hotblack Desiato

DerekP11 wrote:

so the only evidence I could find to support my incredulous claim is here;http://www.mayococo.ie/en/Services/Roads/RoadSafety/MotorwayDriving/

Someone needs to tell them we no longer use MPH.

murphaph

ninja900 wrote:

Someone needs to tell them we no longer use MPH.

The people of Mayo will NOT be told what units to use by the beaurocrats in Dublin!

Wishbone Ash

murphaph wrote:

The people of Mayo will NOT be told what units to use by the beaurocrats in Dublin!

Yup - they re-elected Beverly Flynn!

Carawaystick

JupiterKid wrote:

The abuse of motorway regulations in Ireland is a total joke. People walking, a horse and cart, stopped cars, hitchhikers, L drivers etc. -I see them all pretty regularly. And we must be the only country in the world that has signs on slip roads saying WRONG WAY TURN BACK.:(

Up north, some motorway exits have big no entry signs and flashing red lights like at a level crossing.

The slow vehicles thing encompases agricultural tractors. You are not permitted to use green Diesel (Marked Gas Oil) in a vehicle with a top speed higher than 30 mph.

The N3 is not a motorway, so you're perfectly entitled to cycle on it. which is why a cycle lane led to it. If a cycle lane led to an actual motorway like say the N32 westbound, then things would be different.

And If cars going faster than 10kmh scares you on your pushbike, you are also entitled to cycle on some dual carriageways where the speed limit is 120kmh

icdg

The UK used to use the "Motorway Ahead" sign - and it read pretty identically to the one we use. Here's a picture of the (former) UK version - not that different from ours...

http://bealach-na-ba.fotopic.net/p32086916.html

No mention of agricultural vehicles there either. I presume they would be covered under "Vehicles under 50cc" and "slow vehicles"....

Wishbone Ash

icdg wrote:

The UK used to use the "Motorway Ahead" sign - and it read pretty identically to the one we use. Here's a picture of the (former) UK version - not that different from ours...

http://bealach-na-ba.fotopic.net/p32086916.html

No mention of agricultural vehicles there either

But it is mentioned in the Highway Code.

"227: Prohibited vehicles. Motorways MUST NOT be used by pedestrians, holders of provisional car or motorcycle driving licences unless exempt, riders of motorcycles under 50cc, cyclists and horse riders. Certain slow-moving vehicles and those carrying oversized loads (except by special permission), agricultural vehicles and most invalid carriages are also prohibited.
Laws HA 1980 sects 16, 17 & sch 4, MT(E&W)R reg 4, MT(E&W)(A)R, R(S)A sects 7 ,8 & sch 3 & MT(S)R reg 10"

There doesn't seem to be a similar prohibition in the Irish motorway regulations.

icdg wrote:

I presume they would be covered under "Vehicles under 50cc" and "slow vehicles"....

I can't think of any agricultural vehicles that are less that 50cc.

Re - 'Slow vehicles' refers to vehicles which cannot exceed 50kph but many modern tractors can easily do 60 or 70kph. That is the crux of the 'tractors on motorway' debate.

DerekP11

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Re - 'Slow vehicles' refers to vehicles which cannot exceed 50kph but many modern tractors can easily do 60 or 70kph. That is the crux of the 'tractors on motorway' debate.

I say we move the debate here:D

http://demo.tlisoftware.com/ftmtaforum/

Wishbone Ash

DerekP11 wrote:

I say we move the debate here:D

http://demo.tlisoftware.com/ftmtaforum/

Cheeky!

corktina

wtf? theres 670 members and no posts!....i spose these Auld Farmer types cant use a pc...wont run on their PTO i guess....

DerekP11

corktina wrote:

wtf? theres 670 members and no posts!....i spose these Auld Farmer types cant use a pc...wont run on their PTO i guess....

love it.:D

DerekP11

icdg wrote:

The UK used to use the "Motorway Ahead" sign - and it read pretty identically to the one we use. Here's a picture of the (former) UK version - not that different from ours...

http://bealach-na-ba.fotopic.net/p32086916.html

No mention of agricultural vehicles there either. I presume they would be covered under "Vehicles under 50cc" and "slow vehicles"....

Don't have photo, but up to 7 years ago, the M4 in south Wales had those signs and agricultural vehicles were referred to......honestly. Please believe me.:(

Anyway, we know tractors and the like are banned on the UK system. But do the DOT here, even know the score on this one? Or did we sidetrack it in the 1983 - 1992 motorway legislation?

Personally, I say they're banned on the basis of being too slow. Now I know we've heard about tractors doing 70kph, but in all fairness I wouldn't really notice that. What I notice is the subspeed tractor on a motorway. You know the one Im talking about. Might be the same farmer.:D He crops up on NPRs aswell.

Wishbone Ash

DerekP11 wrote:

I say they're banned on the basis of being too slow. Now I know we've heard about tractors doing 70kph, but in all fairness I wouldn't really notice that

I apologise for labouring the point but double decker buses (and single decker buses with standing passengers) are legally limited to a maximum speed of 64kph on motorways (and any public road) yet we don't hear people complaining about that.

The 'tractor driver' seems to be a soft target!

DerekP11

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I apologise for labouring the point but double decker buses (and single decker buses with standing passengers) are legally limited to a maximum speed of 64kph on motorways (and any public road) yet we don't hear people complaining about that.

The 'tractor driver' seems to be a soft target!

Are you a poor put upon tractor driver?

From my driving perspective, I have come across tractors (some with trailers) and JCBs doing no more than 30kph on motorways. Mainly the M7/9 and the M1 between Dunleer and Dundalk. Don't get me wrong, I dislike HGVs doing 100 kph when they are legally supposed to be doing less. I don't like L-Drivers on motorways, pedestrians on motorways or bad driving full stop. It doesn't matter if Im right, wrong, good bad or indifferent, bottom line is enforcement. Where is it? A gatso van on the N7? A speed camera/garda behind a tree on the longmile road? Thats not enforcement. Its Dick Turpin in uniform. More safety conscious laws are broken on our motorways every day and they go without punishment. I say this on a day when a 60 year old man lost his life on the M7 near Monesterevan. I don't know the cause or who's to blame, but at 2pm on a saturday its not a very busy road. A truck was also involved. Motorways aren't fairytale routes to motoring heaven. Irelands death toll on motorways is creeping up at an alarming rate. Time to wake up to this reality and police them with more venom. Do I need to remind everyone of the Foggy carnage on the M7 last year.

But farmer joe, still must go and bob the builder should take a hike with him. Then HGV man needs a speed check. L-Drivers should get fined to high heaven for motorway driving and pedestrians get fined with them. Only then can we even begin to tackle motorway driving offences. Its seems the only offense our Gardai know of is speeding. Do drivers on the M50 not feel a little cheated when they see Anto waiting on his lift everyday and then get done for doing 70 kph through the road works.

Victor

corktina wrote:

wtf? theres 670 members and no posts!....i spose these Auld Farmer types cant use a pc...wont run on their PTO i guess....

It is possible that all posts are only viewable in logged-in mode or are in members only / private areas. Of course, some boardsies once found a board with one post and by the end of the weekend it had 3,000.

PTO?

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I apologise for labouring the point but double decker buses (and single decker buses with standing passengers) are legally limited to a maximum speed of 64kph on motorways (and any public road) yet we don't hear people complaining about that.

Wasn't that changed to 65km/h

Wishbone Ash

Victor wrote:

PTO?

"Power Take Off" - it's the circular shaft at the rear (and sometimes front) of a tractor which is driven at 540 RPM by the engine via a clutch. It's used to operate machinery via a PTO shaft with universal joints. For safety, the PTO shaft usually has a yellow plastic cover.

tinkerbell

DerekP11 wrote:

4. Its all about enforcement. I would guess that we have a very poor record of enforcing motorway violations. Apart from the pedestrian factor, we have 1000s of L-Drivers on our motorway network. How big an improvement would there be on the M50, if every L-Driver was taken off it. Ive also seen tractors use the M7 on a regular basis and in one instance a police car passing by. No action taken.

I think that's a totally unfair statement - once again, the L drivers are the scapegoat. I drive on the M50 every morning (I have a full license) and the worst drivers on that motorway are middle-aged men in their BMWs / Mercedes who try to run you off the road.