RWC Squad 2007

zAbbo

From - http://www.irishrugby.ie/283_8551.php

Ireland Rugby World Cup Squad 2007

16 / 14 Split

Forwards (16):

Props (4)
Simon Best
Bryan Young
John Hayes
Marcus Horan

Hookers (3)
Jerry Flannery
Rory Best
Frankie Sheahan

Second Row(3)
Donncha O’Callaghan
Paul O’Connell
Malcolm O’Kelly

Back Row (6)
Stephen Ferris
Neil Best
Simon Easterby
Denis Leamy
Alan Quinlan
David Wallace



Backs (14):

Scrum Halves (3)
Isaac Boss
Eoin Reddan
Peter Stringer

Fly Halves (2)
Ronan O’Gara
Paddy Wallace

Centres (4)
Gordon D’Arcy
Gavin Duffy
Brian O’Driscoll Captain
Andrew Trimble

Wings (3)
Brian Carney
Denis Hickie
Shane Horgan - O'Sullivan said: "Shane's injury means a four-week lay-off, depending on his healing powers.

Full Backs (2)
Girvan Dempsey
Geordan Murphy

Stand-By (1)
Tommy Bowe

---

A certain amount of presumption, obviously some of those players can play across a number of positions.

The cuts are

Leo Cullen
Keith Gleeson
Jamie Heaslip
Trevor Hogan
Bernard Jackman
Mick O' Driscoll


I think Eddie's made a big decision on the second row, leaving Mick O' Dricoll at home, and opting for versatility on the back row, with Easterby and Quinlan capable line out options. Also with Ferris's ability to play across the back row, leaving Heaslip out.

Other than that, we have Muprhy can play FB/WG, Trimble, at CT/WG, Duffy at CT/FB, and Wallace at FH/CT, so I think versatility has decided this squad.

I'm happy with it, roll on Italy in Belfast (got my tickets in the post ), and then onto the RWC

Jilm

Hopefully Horgan will be fit in time for France game, Bowe's on standy if he isn't. According to the beebs site...

He went for an MRI scan on Sunday morning which revealed a grade two ligament tear.

is_that_so

Not 100% convinced by his choice. To me O'Gara is the one we need to mind. I really don't think that Wallace is up to it if O'Gara gets injured. Good to see Carney and Murphy there and nice to see old Mal as well, even though I'd expect him to play a bit part. But it also highlights the huge gulf between the A Team and the B team.

EdgarAllenPoo

Am I the only one who thinks he should have taken four second rows? Gavin Duffy is a bit of a gamble, I think.

zAbbo

What other option was there at FH, bring in the Humph, after the squad spending the last month (and ultimately the last few years) training and preparing towards the RWC.

How do you explain that to the squad ?

zAbbo

GDM wrote:

Am I the only one who thinks he should have taken four second rows? Gavin Duffy is a bit of a gamble, I think.

More important now with Shaggys injury with a possible 4 week layoff, Eddie is covering the positions, with Trimble/Muprhy ability to play Wing, and Duffy/Murphy playing FB, and Duffy/Trimble playing Centre.

Jilm

zabbo, you're not EOS by any chance?

Stev_o

GDM wrote:

Am I the only one who thinks he should have taken four second rows? .

Yeah i agree with you, there going to be wrecked after the group stages unless EOS decides to throw one of his backrowers into the 2nd row during the low games

ironingbored

Gavin Duffy does not deserve to go to the world cup. IMHO he brings nothing to the squad and there is nothing world class about him. EOS should have had Humphreys in the squad as he is the only really capable cover for ROG. Wallace is just not up to scratch. I also think Heaslip should be on that plane but he's young and may get a few other chances in the future.

BOHSBOHS

ooooo 3 locks and a back rower as cover just like the allblacks
altho like the allblacks i think it could b risky

i would possibly have brought humpreys , every team will have 2 specialist outhalves and a centre as backup kicker
(ex abs , carter,evans and mcallister , all capable kickers)
we have 1 outhalf (ROG) and a centre as cover (wallace)

wud have brought gleeson or heaslip instead of ferris , altho i had suspected like others on here that ferris was in eddies favourites book
its great that he can play in different positions but if hes poo in all of them ?

Sangre

I'm happy enough with that, I do like his 2nd row/back row combination but it could be risky. He'll need to use his sub bench to keep the 2nd rows fresh and fitting fit.

RuggieBear

i'd have brought heaslip instead of ferris.

Jello

Pretty good decisions IMO. The only obvious concern is Paddy Wallace - as someone said he won't be up to doing a good job of replacing O'Gara.

daveirl

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Amazotheamazing

Heaslip had his chance yesterday and blew it, pity for him but we've a lot of talent there.

quagmire69

Amazotheamazing wrote:

Heaslip had his chance yesterday and blew it, pity for him but we've a lot of talent there.

heaslip was better than ferris yesterday. ferris CANNOT play 7, making him a 6 or 8 for the squad. quinlan, best and easterbunny all better sixes, leaving him to play only at 8. leamy a better 8 as is heaslip.

ferris has no experience whatsoever and didnt eddie say that experience was the deciding factor in his hard decisions!?

At least heaslip had starring role in U21 world cup and been playing all season. he was the bright spot in leinster all year. ferris aint even been a regular this season.
Ferris needs a lot of rugby to get him up to elite international level.

stupid call from eddie IMO.

thebaz

The squad is reasonable except at out half, taking only one is a gamble

sickpuppy

Dave irl are you implying heaslip does not like rucks?
I think he likes getting his hands on the ball and does not graft enough interview in paper yesterday he said he likes being in the backs.
Ferris and Neilbest have great aggression and are more abrasive you want tough forwards not fancy dans.

Stev_o

Problem is Ferris didnt do anything yesterday that got the attention of any fans. Neil for all his aggression just can not start a match and finish it with the same impact he has as just coming on as a sub. Heaslip did well at the back of the scrum considering the amount of pressure that was pressed on it. He has be the heart and soul of the Leinster forwards all this season and i think that should have bought him a ticket to France. He is willing to put everything he's got on the line to win a match even if no one else on the team think its a winable match just watch his performance against Cardiff Blues this year when Leinster got hammered he was the only one in putting in the effort and has been all year

daveirl

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Amazotheamazing

On yesterday's performance, Anthony Foley is still a better 8 than Heaslip.

zAbbo

From a club point of view, Leinster will have Jennings, Heaslip and Gleeson available for the start of the season

Amazotheamazing

Still though, Munster's ML pack will be Hurley, Fogerty, Buckley, Ryan, MOD, O'Sullivan, Foley, Ronan. They'll surprise a lot of people.

daveirl

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Trojan

Glad to see MOD out of the squad, I think he's way overrated.

daveirl

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AbusesToilets

What about Cullen?I think he has been the most underrated of all the second rows for years.The fact that a fairly average player like MOD is in ahead of him in the pecking order is evidence of this.Between Cullen and MOK i would have brought Cullen,how much life does Big Mal have left in his legs? Plenty of experience but didn't get near the 6 nations squad.

Trojan

I think it's a tough call between the years of experience of MOK and the young, fresh and upcoming Cullen (who after last season we can hardly call in-experienced).

I think Jackman, MOD, Gleeson and Hogan all would probably have been mentally prepared for this squad. I think Cullen, Heaslip and Bowe* may feel quite unlucky.

Jilm

Cullen is 29, so he's hardly young. When I've seen him play, he's struck me as a distinctly average player.

Ulster's Ryan Caldwell is an Irish lock for the future.

daveirl

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tHE vAGGABOND

i would possibly have brought humpreys

He has been retired from international rugby for a while, we have to move on..

We dont have any good specialist 10's apart from ROG - if we had a second good one he would be playing at Ulster or Leinster [we have several guys with promise, but promise is not world class is it! I hope and assume you are not talking about the younger brother, who has proven nothing in his career BTW]

Im very worried about Horgan, if we lost him it would be a gigantic blow. We dont have anyone else who can change a game, or take a try like the one we got at the end in Twickenham last year...

Very happy Mick O'D did not make it. Im sorry munster fans, but he has gotten a lot of chances at this level, and has never impressed me a single time. We dont need dead wood who cant cut it. If we need a sub, I would rather one of our back rowers went into second row, at least they can mix it up around the field, and most of them can act as line out options!

Its a good squad, close to the one I would have picked myself

Zzippy

zabbo wrote:

Shane Horgan - O'Sullivan said: "Shane's injury means a four-week lay-off, depending on his healing powers.

Jesus, I hope they have good physios. I had the very same injury last year, grade 2 tear, did it the same way, turning on wet ground and slipped and twisted the knee. Out for 6 weeks before I could even train again, and I followed all the physio instructions. Can't see Shaggy being available until the very end of the group stage at best

mikedragon32

No offence Galwayguy99 but I'd guess that Shaggy is fitter than you and has access to a greater range of physios and facilities and would be capable of a quicker recovery than us mere mortals.

I still think it's a huge risk keeping him on the squad though.

Also, surprised to see Carney picked ahead of Bowe. Carney's not been that great in the three games I've seen him play, and certainly at the weekend, Bowe made a stronger case for inclusion, imho. Perhaps Carney is doing better at training sessions?

GreenHell

Carney has had EOS eye for a while so I guess its not surprise he made it over Bowe, I'm still hoping for big things from Carney, some of performances at ML level have been impressive, still though big jump too international.

MOD is a tough call, I don't think Mal is of any use to anyone, he'd possibly be of better use getting jars from top shelves for little old ladies. But I agree with an earlier poster, MOD hasn't done anything in the last session to make him worthy of a place in the squad.

zAbbo

In fairness, we only really judge these players on there performance on the field, and we don't have the insight into what happens off the game pitch, how they perform in training and affect the squad balance which Eddie has.

Carney is the wildcard, and now has the benefit of working with the squad. Not much he could do with no ball on Saturday.

tHE vAGGABOND

I think its because carney has the ability to do something 'different' in both attatck and defence. He has the potential to be a game breaker, or make an impact as a sub..

Bowe is a good winger, but I dont think he will ever be world class, or anything close to it tbh.
[nor will carney, but his defence is better and his ability/potential to be a game breaker gives him the nod]

marco_polo

mikedragon32 wrote:

No offence Galwayguy99 but I'd guess that Shaggy is fitter than you and has access to a greater range of physios and facilities and would be capable of a quicker recovery than us mere mortals.

I still think it's a huge risk keeping him on the squad though.

Also, surprised to see Carney picked ahead of Bowe. Carney's not been that great in the three games I've seen him play, and certainly at the weekend, Bowe made a stronger case for inclusion, imho. Perhaps Carney is doing better at training sessions?

No risk to keep Horgan in for the moment because if he doesn't make it he can be repalced by Bowe before the tournament starts. For all the service he has given to Irish Rugby over the years he deserves a chance prove his fitness. I will be absolutely devastated for the man if he doesn't make it .

I saw the Bowe / Carney duel the other way around TBH but that could be my Munster bias perhaps. although in fairness neither wing got much decent ball to work with in the game. I think that Carney was ahead of Bowe in the pecking order going into the game, and as the game turned out neither player got enough of the ball to play themselves in/out of the squad.

I must admit I am happy that Carney made the squad, he showed some real quality in the closing stages of the ML for Munster last year. I though he did well in Argentina too with the exception of getting caught out for one try. There may be some remaining question marks over his defensive positioning but he was a world class league wing and has all the other attributes required to be a success in Union. I would love to see him unleashed behind a first choice Irish pack against Italy to see what he is capable of.

Bowe is still only 23 and has the potential to be a very good player in for Ireland, I expect him to be pushing hard for a 6N starting spot next season if he gets off to a good start for Ulster. He may yet make it to the RWC in any case if Horgan doesn't make it.

GreenHell wrote:

Carney has had EOS eye for a while so I guess its not surprise he made it over Bowe, I'm still hoping for big things from Carney, some of performances at ML level have been impressive, still though big jump too international.

MOD is a tough call, I don't think Mal is of any use to anyone, he'd possibly be of better use getting jars from top shelves for little old ladies. But I agree with an earlier poster, MOD hasn't done anything in the last session to make him worthy of a place in the squad.

Cullen, Hogan and MOD did not make the most of their opportunities to displace Big Mal from the squad. All three have been very mediocre in recent outings for Ireland and if any one of them had shown some decent form they would probably have in the squad as the third choice lock ahead of Mal.

Zzippy

mikedragon32 wrote:

No offence Galwayguy99 but I'd guess that Shaggy is fitter than you and has access to a greater range of physios and facilities and would be capable of a quicker recovery than us mere mortals.

None taken, whatsoever! I'm sure he's fitter than 99.9% of the population, and I wouldn't dream of comparing myself to him in terms of fitness. However, when I got injured, the doc and physio both told me minimum of 6 weeks, and that was standard for anyone in that situation who played sport, so a reasonable level of fitness is assumed.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be negative, I hope to God he does make it as I think he is one of our most important players, but I wouldn't expect to see him play before the last group game.

quagmire69

daveirl wrote:

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thats a terrible idea.

good idea to replace ferris with hogan tho. lets quinlan play to his strengths in the backrow. He's far better cover for the 7 spot than ferris.

Also about heaslip hanging out on the wings, i'm sure laportes gonna give hell to chabal and pelous for hangin round out there over the weekend.

Anyway, whats done is done. Tis a strong squad all the same and would like to see carney given a run in horgans position with the first choice lads in one of the warmup games, got a feeling he could be quite a tricky customer.

kevmy

On the out-half issue we have no other real option Humps is retired and Wallace is the best of a bad lot. Having said that I'd expect him to start in at least one of the early group games to keep ROG in cotton wool.

On the wing issue Carney probably has more ability than Bowe in my view but Trimble is probably third choice winger anyway if Horgan (hope he makes it) or Hickie get injured during a big game. Horgan is worth keeping in the squad even if he doesn't make the first game and is only good enough for a piece of the second. We need him against the Argies and even more against the French.

On the backrow/secondrow issue I'm happy to see Quinlan come IMO he's a better back rower than Ferris or Heaslip and he has the added second row option included. Having said that if we need to put our fourth choice second row into action against one of the big teams we're probably fecked anyway. Also very happy to see Neil Best going his aggression and all action style is refreshing compared to Easterby's boring by-the-numbers style.

Heres hoping Flannery gets ahead of Best again in hooker don't know what Eddie was thinking about there last year

mikedragon32

kevmy wrote:

Heres hoping Flannery gets ahead of Best again in hooker don't know what Eddie was thinking about there last year

Flaz was injured/coming back from injury.

daveirl

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Hippo

kevmy wrote:

Also very happy to see Neil Best going his aggression and all action style is refreshing compared to Easterby's boring by-the-numbers style.

I know Best has long hair so he's easy to spot on the pitch, and he's capable of the occasional big hit but Easterby was miles ahead of him on form for the whole of the second half of last season, and it's unfair to tag Easterby's stlye as 'boring- by- the- numbers', the guy is really good around the pitch, in the lineout and on the deck, and well worth his place.

Dave, agree 100% about MOK, can't understand his selection; Hogan in particular would have been a much better option

nacho libre

Easterby's trojan work by and large goes unnoticed yet Best gets the recognition for the odd big hit. Easterby is far more vital to the team than Best. I think Saturday's game against Scotland attests to this.

marco_polo

kevmy wrote:

On the out-half issue we have no other real option Humps is retired and Wallace is the best of a bad lot. Having said that I'd expect him to start in at least one of the early group games to keep ROG in cotton wool.

On the wing issue Carney probably has more ability than Bowe in my view but Trimble is probably third choice winger anyway if Horgan (hope he makes it) or Hickie get injured during a big game. Horgan is worth keeping in the squad even if he doesn't make the first game and is only good enough for a piece of the second. We need him against the Argies and even more against the French.

On the backrow/secondrow issue I'm happy to see Quinlan come IMO he's a better back rower than Ferris or Heaslip and he has the added second row option included. Having said that if we need to put our fourth choice second row into action against one of the big teams we're probably fecked anyway. Also very happy to see Neil Best going his aggression and all action style is refreshing compared to Easterby's boring by-the-numbers style.

Heres hoping Flannery gets ahead of Best again in hooker don't know what Eddie was thinking about there last year

I like his boring by the numbers style personally and does EOS. Easterby is a critical part of the team at the moment, very good at the breakdown and a fantastic option at lineout time, his lineout ability is one of the reasons why Irelands is one of the best around.

I think that Neil Best is a very good player but has developed a Chabal-like mythical aura because of his physicallity and big hits and isn't quite as good as people think. Ask most welsh rugby fans who they would pick and they would certainly say Easterby.

The fact of the matter is that Best has been off form since for most of the season (by the admittedly high standards he set in NZ), and as a result is a good way behind Easterby in EOS thinking at the moment. Great impact sub to have but he does have some way to go to force his way back into the first team.

Not meaning to disagree with everything you say but for a long time I wanted Flannery in the team ahead of best however for me he has not quite yet regained the spark he had since coming back from injury, so at the moment Best is deservedly in pole position. Very happy that Quinlan went ahed of MOD as well.

daveirl wrote:

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Totally agree with this point, if you are only going to bring three specialist locks it seems a bit ridiculous to bring one who will probably only last for 60 minutes against any of the top rank teams. I would nearly have prefered MOD to go than MOK but either of the Leinster second rows would have been better options than these two surely.

sickpuppy

Kevmy boring by the numbers?
Do you mean he does be buried in rucks and mauls not asking for crossfield kicks on the wing?
Forwards do alot of unseen work every scrum is astruggle every ruck every maul you should not see a good forward cos hes buried in rucks or mauls.
A good coach like o sullivan knows thr real grafters hence Heaslip is at home practising his side steps cross field kicks and chip and chases.

kevmy

marco_polo wrote:

The fact of the matter is that Best has been off form since for most of the season (by the admittedly high standards he set in NZ), and as a result is a good way behind Easterby in EOS thinking at the moment. Great impact sub to have but he does have some way to go to force his way back into the first team.

I agree that at this time form wise Easterby is definitely ahead of Best but the same could not be said this time last year. And I would start Easterby ahead of Best what I meant by my comment is that as an impact sub to change this around Best has a different style to Easterby. Also at times last year I thought our back row could look stale and Best can come in and shake them up.

marco_polo wrote:

Not meaning to disagree with everything you say but for a long time I wanted Flannery in the team ahead of best however for me he has not quite yet regained the spark he had since coming back from injury, so at the moment Best is deservedly in pole position.

But I wonder how much of that is lack of game time Flannery has been given? IMO he's a far superior player to Best and Eddie made some sort of comment during the 6N about Best playing because he was the guy in possesion of the jersey. Thats not a good enough reason for me - you play your best (no pun intended) players.

Thats pretty much the only problem I have with Eddie's selection policy but thats a first team issue and not a squad one overall squad wise IMO he has it right

quagmire69

daveirl wrote:

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agree with bringing hogan/cullen over MOD but not at the expense of mal. who on the irish team was up to the pace on sat bar one or two? IMO mal will get back into sorts by world cup with some more game time. i would like to have seen 4 specialist 2nd rows in squad. 17-13. with 3 proper back rows.

clsmooth

Thought this was an interesting thread to bump.

Some interesting opinions on Ferris, Heaslip and Bowe who would all gto on to be Lions less than 2 years later. Many people especially didnt seem to rate Heaslip. Who will be the players that we'll look back at in 2 years time and think 'How did they not go?' I think McFadden if he doesnt make it on the plane will be one. And if Conway breaks through he might be another one although he wouldnt be up to it at this stage in his career.

Malcolm O'Kelly seemed to be a debatable call up. Few people saying Trevor Hogan should have made it. And saying Ryan Caldwell had a lot of potential. Not much has changed about MOD not being up to it though

faigs

McFadden definately, I think he's gonna be world class. Forgot Heaslip wasn't on the squad, did Bowe go out in the end? People didn't think he'd ever be world class, I was guilty of it myself a few years ago!

GerM

Some interesting (and entertaining) opinions held at the time. Heaslip had a storming season for Leinster leading into the WC. He developed his game sharply over the next 2 seasons to become a far more abrasive player but at selection time he was still the most skillful back row player we had. I remember being awfully confused as to why he was omitted and every blindside in the country was selected. His potential and skill was obvious to anyone who had watched him over the season and he was starting at 8 in the 6N only a few months after the WC.

Funny how things turned out with MOK also. He was in a bad run of form, no doubt and I think his selection was based on what he could possibly do rather than what he was doing at the time. However, he came back to form and, along with Cullen, was a rock for Leinster over the next 2 years. It really shows how knee jerk people are at times.

Bowe was omitted but wasn't the player he is now either but he was still far more deserving of a spot than Brian Carney who was brought along almost in a "We've signed him from RL so we have to use him now" sort of way.

You look at that squad now and think, we had a very strong 20 or so players but beyond that, it was a very weak squad. Bryan Young, Brian Carney, Frankie Sheahan? Not players that would get into an extended training squad now.