Most liked car brand in Germany?

JHMEG

For those that haven't heard the radio ad (it surprised me too):

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/motors/2007/0725/1185229803127.html

Guy:Incognito

Was over for a week or so in my Grannies (near Karsruhe) and saw very few Japanese cars, of the few, they were all Honda. The vast majority of cars were obviously German, followed by Renaults, ford, opel.

Although funnily enough I came across 2 newish looking Lancias.

Without reading the survey is it the same one they do in the uk? Cos he radio today (I think) presented it as the most popular , ie becomig the best selling, as opposed to what it is, that of all the makes the honda ownerswere the happiest overall. It doesnt mean they are doing huge sales though. The German makes, much lik te French in France etc will always be he most popular.




Edit, forgot Ford and opel :-)

crosstownk

I've regularly been in the same neck of the woods as Stekelly mentioned above. And, tbh, I've seen very little Jap cars. A few, but nothing substantial. Any amount of BMW, MB, Audi, VW, Opel and other European brands.

Stephen

Same here - I'm in the southern part of Germany (Baden-Wurtemburg) regularly and what I see on the autobahn is about 90% German marques, then other european ones and very few Japanese cars at all - most of the Jap cars I noticed were from other EU countries anyway!
You seem to get a lot less respect on the 'bahn driving asian cars too! First time I was there I had an Opel Zafira, then a Toyota Corolla and last time was a diesel Fiat Idea

I'm going again next week. Dear Hertz, less crap cars plz.

Guy:Incognito

It was my first time renting a car over there (usually borrow my grannies) and Igot a VW Multivan, not a bad people mover at all, plenty of space.

crosstownk

In fairness, the survey is about ownership, not sales figures. But I would be interested to know the sales breakdown in the German market.

TomMc

Continental Europeans are very loyal to their home & EU marques. Ever look at a stage of the Tour De France - 75% french cars and the rest mostly European. The mainstream British motor industry failed due to the fact that the Brits did not support their own to such a degree. Coupled with strikes and the general crappy build quality of BL cars and their ilk. Yet their more specialist marques are a whole different story entirely, mostly gobbled up by now, as the cream of the motor industry.

I remember not too long ago (90's) when Renault, yes Renault was the most liked foreign brand in Germany.

I don't know whether quotas still exist in the EU, with regard to Japanese manufactured cars. They have of course opened European plants to get round this.

Guy:Incognito

TomMc wrote:

I remember not too long ago (90's) when Renault, yes Renault was the most liked foreign brand in Germany..

Twingos are everywhere around where my granny lives. They must have sold huge amounts of themin Germany. I came across an awfull lot of the old old shape clio (pre 98) oer there too.

unkel

Customer satisfaction surveys need to be considered for what they are. How happy are owners with their car. That's it.

A Skoda Octavia typically scores high because it is cheap, does exactly what it says on the tin (can drive from A to B, which is why the owner bought it) and can do so reliably

I've spent quite some time in Germany and can confirm there are very few Japanese cars around compared with Ireland. Drive a bit further south from Karlsruhe and in Switzerland and Italy there are almost none!

Guy:Incognito

unkel wrote:

I've spent quite some time in Germany and can confirm there are very few Japanese cars around compared with Ireland. Drive a bit further south from Karlsruhe and in Switzerland and Italy there are almost none!

Personality goes a long way.

JHMEG

Aye, the survey isn't about sales figures.

I was more than a little surprised tho to read that even Germans will admit that owning a Honda or Toyota is a more satisfying experience than owning a BMW or Merc.

Has anyone else heard the Honda ad on the radio? Starts off sounding like a BMW ad, and then the twist in the tail. Thought it was clever meself.

maidhc

When I think Honda I think overpriced Toyota.

peasant

New registrations (Zulassungen) from Jan - June 06

source: http://www.lycos.de/startseite/auto/news_service/fotoshow.html,,i_102/kba-zulassungsstatistik-januar-bis-juni-2006-die-top-f%C3%BCnf-in-allen-klassen.html

The top five from different segments

Minis

1. VW Fox
20.666 Zulassungen, +283 Prozent
2. Fiat Panda
8.423 Zulassungen, +19,4 Prozent
3. Toyota Aygo
7.931 Zulassungen, +1.183,3 Prozent
4. Smart Fortwo
6.803 Zulassungen, -23,4 Prozent
5. Peugeot 107
6.102 Zulassungen, +3.163,1 Prozent

Kleinwagen

1. VW Polo
37.666 Zulassungen, +12,9 Prozent
2. Ford Fiesta
31.144 Zulassungen, +9,8 Prozent
3. Opel Corsa
29.030 Zulassungen, +0,7 Prozent
4. Skoda Fabia
27.829 Zulassungen, +18,9 Prozent
5. Renault Clio
17.055 Zulassungen, +55,7 Prozent

Kompaktklasse

1. VW Golf/Jetta
114.434 Zulassungen, -6,2 Prozent
2. Opel Astra
52.606 Zulassungen, -19,8 Prozent
3. Ford Focus
38.179 Zulassungen, +0,5 Prozent
4. Audi A3/S3
38.010 Zulassungen, +11,7 Prozent
5. Mercedes A-Klasse
35.812 Zulassungen, -26,4 Prozent

Mittelklasse

1. VW Passat
60.307 Zulassungen, +37,5 Prozent
2. BMW 3er-Reihe
53.139 Zulassungen, +18,1 Prozent
3. Audi A4/S4
44.685 Zulassungen, -12 Prozent
4. Mercedes C-Klasse
30.370 Zulassungen, -25 Prozent
5. Ford Mondeo
16.002 Zulassungen, -12,8 Prozent

Obere Mittelklasse

1. Audi A6, S6
32.100 Zulassungen, +11,9 Prozent
2. BMW 5er-Reihe
28.622 Zulassungen, -17,5 Prozent
3. Mercedes E-Klasse
23.148 Zulassungen, -25,2 Prozent
4. Volvo V70
5.319 Zulassungen, -6 Prozent
5. Mercedes CLK
2.686 Zulassungen, -15,9 Prozent

Oberklasse

1. Mercedes S-Klasse
5.994 Zulassungen, +169,3 Prozent
2. Mercedes CLS
2.903 Zulassungen, -34,4 Prozent
3. BMW 7er-Reihe
2.848 Zulassungen, -13 Prozent
4. Audi A8/S8
2.764 Zulassungen, +2,6 Prozent
5. Porsche 911
2.411 Zulassungen, -7,9 Prozent

Geländewagen

1. BMW X3
10.441 Zulassungen, -9,5 Prozent
2. Mercedes ML-Klasse
9.888 Zulassungen, +201,1 Prozent
3. Toyota RAV4
9.423 Zulassungen, +2,2 Prozent
4. Hyundai Tucson
7.613 Zulassungen, +131,3 Prozent
5. VW Touareg
7.166 Zulassungen, -23,4 Prozent

Cabrios und Roadster

1. Mercedes SLK
8.301 Zulassungen, -32,3 Prozent
2. Peugeot 206 CC
7.741 Zulassungen, -37,8 Prozent
3. Audi A4/S4 Cabrio
5.219 Zulassungen, +44,7 Prozent
4. Opel Tigra Twintop
5.213 Zulassungen, -43,8 Prozent
5. Renault Mégane CC
4.887 Zulassungen, -19,6 Prozent

Vans

1. VW Touran
40.221 Zulassungen, -4,3 Prozent
2. Mercedes B-Klasse
30.931 Zulassungen, +477,3 Prozent
3. Opel Meriva
27.331 Zulassungen, -8,7 Prozent
4. Opel Zafira
24.802 Zulassungen, +23,2 Prozent
5. Seat Altea, Toledo, Leon
15.965 Zulassungen, +7,8 Prozent

Transporter

1. VW Transporter, Caravelle, Multivan
24.125 Zulassungen, +17,8 Prozent
2. VW Caddy
13.433 Zulassungen, +42,2 Prozent
3. Mercedes Vito, V-Klasse
7.755 Zulassungen, +27,1 Prozent
4. Citroën Berlingo
6.688 Zulassungen, -5,1 Prozent
5. Renault Kangoo
4.972 Zulassungen, -14,7

JHMEG

peasant wrote:

New registrations (Zulassungen) from Jan - June 06

source: http://www.lycos.de/startseite/auto/news_service/fotoshow.html,,i_102/kba-zulassungsstatistik-januar-bis-juni-2006-die-top-f%C3%BCnf-in-allen-klassen.html

The top five from different segments

Wow. That's a lot of VWs, even tho the Germans only rate them ninth:eek: and below average.

tuxy

maidhc wrote:

When I think Honda I think overpriced Toyota.

Why? Similar models cost about the same.

unkel

JHMEG wrote:

even Germans will admit that owning a Honda or Toyota is a more satisfying experience than owning a BMW or Merc

That's exactly why customer satisfaction surveys need to be interpreted with care or false conclusions might be derived

Bit of a generalising example, but you'll get my drift:

A Toyota buyer expects something to bring him from A to B without breaking down. It shouldn't cost too much either. That's all and that's all a Toyota can do

A Mercedes Benz buyer expects a stylish and luxury vehicle made of high quality parts and with excellent comfort and driving dynamics. He is prepared to pay a lot of money for it, but has very high expectations

But somehow I suspect you are very aware of the relationship between satisfaction and expectation, ya troll ya

Here's the chart for anyone interested and BTW the German survey was published about a month ago. It took Paddy Comyn of the Irish Times more than a fortnight to copy and paste. Ah well, I suppose those poor journalists really haven't much to write about this time of year

crosstownk

peasant wrote:

New registrations (Zulassungen) from Jan - June 06

Great post, peasant. It reflects, more or less, what I see on der autobahanen.

JHMEG

unkel wrote:

That's exactly why customer satisfaction surveys need to be interpreted with care or false conclusions might be derived

I'll go one better and say that they don't need to be interpreted at all. If the results are favourable to and reflect one's own beliefs, great, leave it at that. If they show one's favourite brand in a bad light, great, leave it at that.

At the end of the day the influence of survey is what's important, and this one (like all the others) doesn't seem to carry much, as people will still buy whatever they want, for their own personal reasons, be it for the badge or reliability or whatever.

The Germans don't seem to pay much heed either, or they wouldn't keep buying VWs by the boatload.

Altreab

crosstownk wrote:

Great post, peasant. It reflects, more or less, what I see on der autobahanen.

yes indeed great post peasant. Just scanning it it seems that the small city car type are mainly non german european and Jap cars and then as you move up to the mid and higher range cars it becomes mainly german/european makes. the exact sort that would be on the autobahn cos lets face who would want to drive a fiat punto on the autobahn :eek:

unkel

Do you really not understand the concept of customer satisfaction?

If a Skoda Octavia gets a better customer satisfaction rating, it doesn't mean it's a better car than a Mercedes-Benz E-class. It only means that whoever buy Octavias are happier with their particular choice of car than whoever buy E-classes

It does not compare the cars, or the buyers for that matter

It does not mean that E-class buyers rate the Octavia higher than the E-class. And it certainly doesn't mean that the Germans as a nation like Mazdas and Toyotas more than Audis or Mercedes-Benz

So the thread title is, shall we say, slightly misleading

maidhc

Altreab wrote:

who would want to drive a fiat punto on the autobahn :eek:

I drove a Panda!

JHMEG

unkel wrote:

Do you really not understand the concept of customer satisfaction?

Did you ever study economics in college? The more variables introduced the more complex and meaningless something becomes... and hence surveys like this deserve less attention, not more careful attention. But anyway I hated economics.

I agree with you on the E-class vs Octavia argument, btw, but on a more abstract level (above). But, if BMW, Merc and Audi were no. 1, 2 and 3, would you still be making such logical arguments?;) (Honest answer please!)

unkel wrote:

So the thread title is, shall we say, slightly misleading

I like the results of this survey, but it is afterall a survey, and hence the question mark at the end of the title! It is not a de facto statement of truth.

unkel wrote:

That's all and that's all a Toyota can do

Mmm. To make a statement like that about Toyota whilst ignoring the Land Cruiser (one of the best 4x4s), the Corolla Verso (one of the best MPVs), the MR2, the Supra, some Celicas, and the African warlords' favourite, the Hilux, well....

Fey!

Oddly enough, the Asian cars I've seen the most of in Germany are Kias!!!

unkel

JHMEG wrote:

it is afterall a survey, and hence the question mark at the end of the title! It is not a de facto statement of truth.

Touché! Although I interpreted the question mark in the thread title as a prompt for the reader to think about and come up with an answer before clicking on and starting to read your thread

JHMEG wrote:

Did you ever study economics in college? The more variables introduced the more complex and meaningless something becomes... and hence surveys like this deserve less attention, not more careful attention. But anyway I hated economics

Because you didn't understand it?

Oh and yes, I did a bit of economics in college. A good bit

Guy:Incognito

Altreab wrote:

yes indeed great post peasant. Just scanning it it seems that the small city car type are Jap and then as you move up to the mid and higher range cars it becomes mainly german/european makes. the exact sort that would be on the autobahn cos lets face who would want to drive a fiat punto on the autobahn :eek:

? The only Japanese cars in the whole list are the Aygo and the Rav4. 1 form 5 (or 10 if you include the next segment up as city cars too) is hardly a huge amount,

Altreab

maidhc wrote:

I drove a Panda!

GULP

JHMEG

unkel wrote:

Touché! Although I interpreted the question mark in the thread title as a prompt for the reader to think about and come up with an answer before clicking on and starting to read your thread

I think we know what your answer would have been!;)

unkel wrote:

Because you didn't understand it?
Oh and yes, I did a bit of economics in college. A good bit

I did understand it, I just didn't like it. Like a lot of things the theory and the practice are not too closely related!

BTW, you didn't answer my question!

Altreab

Stekelly wrote:

? The only Japanese cars in the whole list are the Aygo and the Rav4. 1 form 5 (or 10 if you include the next segment up as city cars too) is hardly a huge amount,

your right ...i edited it to say more like i meant orginally Mainly non german european and jap cars!!
and on that bombshell it time to get some sleep !

crosstownk

My question in relation to the survey is: How many Honda drivers responded vs VW/Audi/BMW/MB drivers?

I'd say the amount of Honda responses was small compared to other marques. How accurate is the response of 10 Honda owners vs 2000 'home' brand owners. Surely there is more scope for complaints where there is a higher ownership. Or does the survey take this into account?

JHMEG

crosstownk wrote:

My question in relation to the survey is: How many Honda drivers responded vs VW/Audi/BMW/MB drivers?

I'd say the amount of Honda responses was small compared to other marques. How accurate is the response of 10 Honda owners vs 2000 'home' brand owners. Surely there is more scope for complaints where there is a higher ownership. Or does the survey take this into account?

Responses would be averaged out, so the numbers wouldn't matter. If 90/100 Honda owners were happy, total = 90%. If 800/1000 BMW owners were happy, average = 80%. And therefore they'd have to assume if there were 1000 Honda owners, 900 would be happy etc etc.

unkel

JHMEG wrote:

Responses would be averaged out, so the numbers wouldn't matter. If 90/100 Honda owners were happy, total = 90%. If 800/1000 BMW owners were happy, average = 80%. And therefore they'd have to assume if there were 1000 Honda owners, 900 would be happy etc etc.

So you don't understand statistics either?

JHMEG wrote:

BTW, you didn't answer my question!

This one?

JHMEG wrote:

if BMW, Merc and Audi were no. 1, 2 and 3, would you still be making such logical arguments?;) (Honest answer please!)

I'd like to think I would, although I might not have been as bothered to reply. Don't mistake me for a fanboy of BMW or any other make, German, Italian or otherwise. I've never been a fanboy of any make. I used to own Japanese cars until I bought a large BMW with a V8 petrol engine (admittedly it was a bit of an impulse buy - the offer was too good to refuse) nearly 7 years ago and I have been very pleased since. Maybe nearly as pleased as an Octavia or Avensis owner

JHMEG

unkel wrote:

So you don't understand statistics either?

I'll ignore that.

unkel wrote:

Don't mistake me for a fanboy of BMW

Someone who had a pic of the bottom half of a BMW badge in their sig, and then Souverän und zeitlos, das weißblaue Flaggschiff is a BMW fanboy!:p

TomMc

In fairness, while these JD Power type surveys & the like have to be taken with a pinch of salt, given all the various anomalies that exist - i.e. a Skoda/Toyota/Honda owner would have different expectations than a VAG/Mercedes owner. Although many of these would be to do with the quality of materials (fixtures & fittings) and customer service given the price premium; as everyone has a right to expect overall reliability and common courtesy. However what they do highlight is the "value for money" element offered by a particular motor manufacturer & the aftersales service (or not) of its dealers, Pro Quo.

unkel

JHMEG wrote:

Someone who had a pic of the bottom half of a BMW badge in their sig

I had a pic of part of my registration plate in my sig. The county name as Gaelige was a bit vague on my registration plate and that was why I failed the NCT. The reason it was in my sig was to give out about and ridicule the whole NCT test

JHMEG wrote:

and then Souverän und zeitlos, das weißblaue Flaggschiff is a BMW fanboy!:p

Respect for making the link

I did some research before I bought my current car. I did a lot more research after. I read many reviews from many sources in a few languages

The title of the review I liked the most is in my current sig

Ah, maybe I should replace my sig. What do you suggest as a replacement?

JHMEG

"Germans prefer Honda, Toyota and Subaru"?

Germans generally don't like Jap cars. They generally prefer properly engineered cars like BMWs and Porsches. I can't disagree with that

JHMEG

^^ something funny happened there... that's not my post, and mine is gone!

But anyway, I was being facetious. I know Germans prefer to buy German cars, but the little dig about "prefer properly engineered cars"... well, I can't argue that Porsches aren't very well engineered (but over-rated).

Seth Brundle

JHMEG wrote:

The Germans don't seem to pay much heed either, or they wouldn't keep buying VWs by the boatload.

Presumably like the French who tend to buy Renault/Peugeot/Citroen the Germans have a sense of national pride

Blitzkrieger

"Most liked" is probably a bad title. The Germans do have a sense of national pride in their cars. I saw very few Japenese cars when i was over there and most people didn't know what mine was. There was a fair few people taking photos of me......but maybe that's because I'm so sexy....and delusional....

bazz26

In fairness Japan buy mostly Japanese cars too though this has changed in the last 10 years or so where buying a European or American car has become something of a novelty.

At the end of the day you are always going to get a certain level of self pride and loyalty from any country that manufacturers it's own cars.

Guy:Incognito

kbannon wrote:

Presumably like the French who tend to buy Renault/Peugeot/Citroen the Germans have a sense of national pride

Havnt been to Italy but I assume its Fiat/Alfa/Ferrari?/Lamborghini? everywhere?

bazz26 wrote:

At the end of the day you are always going to get a certain level of self pride and loyalty from any country that manufacturers it's own cars.

Must get on carzone and root out a shamrock.:)

bazz26

Stekelly wrote:

Must get on carzone and root out a shamrock.:)

Well Ford still have a strong loyalty base here especially around the Cork area where they were assembled many moons ago.

Guy:Incognito

bazz26 wrote:

Well Ford still have a strong loyalty base here especially around the Cork area where they were assembled many moons ago.

Bit of a stretch though. Being assembled doesnt really count. Especially seeing as so many makes make their cars in various differen countries.

Maybe we could convince Ferrari to set up a factory here and we can claim them.:D

Donald Fagen

Stephen wrote:

Dear Hertz, less crap cars plz.

They do have less crap cars - you had the option of a full fleet, and you obviously opted for the crappest/cheapest cars they had, so why are you complaining? I was in Munich last week, and I rented a C-class Merc from Hertz.

And while I was in Munich, I specifically noticed that most parked cars as I walked along were BMW's, then Mercs, VW, Audi and some European cars & Porches.

bazz26

Stekelly wrote:

Bit of a stretch though. Being assembled doesnt really count. Especially seeing as so many makes make their cars in various differen countries.

Maybe we could convince Ferrari to set up a factory here and we can claim them.:D

It worked for Jack Charlton.

maidhc

Stekelly wrote:

Bit of a stretch though. Being assembled doesnt really count. Especially seeing as so many makes make their cars in various differen countries.

It was the worldwide manufacturing base for tractors at one point and the only reason the plant was put in Cork was because of Uncle Henry himself.

There is a very strong affinity for Fords still IMO, especially in classic car circles.

JHMEG

kbannon wrote:

Presumably like the French who tend to buy Renault/Peugeot/Citroen the Germans have a sense of national pride

True.. they buy them cos they're French, not cos they're good.

unkel

JHMEG wrote:

^^ something funny happened there... that's not my post, and mine is gone!

Looks like I edited your post by mistake. Do you remember what you posted? If so, I'll happily change it back to what it was. Sorry for my mistake and sorry for my late reply

E92

Sovergin and timeless, the white-blue flagship. When did BMW use that slogan?(assuming they did) It was always 'The Ultimate Driving Machine', wasn't it?

peasant

acktchalley ...


...iiiiits ....



FREUDE AM FAHREN

unkel

E92 wrote:

Sovergin and timeless, the white-blue flagship. When did BMW use that slogan?(assuming they did)

No, it's not a BMW slogan. See my previous post. It was the title of a review of an E38, a 740d. Here's the article

mikedragon32

TomMc wrote:

Ever look at a stage of the Tour De France - 75% french cars and the rest mostly European

Since when?

Skoda, one of the main sponsors of Le Tour, provide the majority of the official support cars. The Tour Directors' cars are Audi. Most of the teams use Skoda Octavias, the the exception of T Mobile who use Audi, Quick-Step who use Pugs and a couple of others who I can't think of right now. Before Skoda, the vehicle sponsor was Fiat.

I'm seeing a lot more Skodas about the place in the last couple of years over in Germany (funnily enough I go to a town just outside Karlsruhe quite a bit too... mmmmm). I recall reading an article in the Irish Times Motors suppliment last year about how taxi drivers in Stuttgart were changing in their droves from Mercs to Skodas. I had a conversation with my friend about why he thought that Merc were taking such a battering and he told me it's because they let their standards slip in the late 90's and never recovered their reputation.

The jap car that appears to prevail over there is the Yaris from my observations.