Cycling - legal alcohol limit?

michaelm

Serious question - is there a legal alcohol limit for a cyclist? It's not that I'm planning to be irresponsible or anything but I have on the odd occasion cycled to my local for (at most) 2 drinks - last week I passed two gardai doing breath tests, they didn't stop me but it got me thinking. Does anyone know of a cyclists who has ever been tested or is it a case of "unless you are behaving in an irresponsible way while in charge of a mechanically propelled something or other"?

ba

i presume the alcoholic limit is the same as that for any motorist.

oneeyedsnake

I don't think they would bother.I talked to a friend who is in the police force in the uk and he siad he'd just laugh if he saw a drunken cyclist.I have cycled home from the city center more times than I care to remember and find that you just go into auto pilot.

robfitz

michaelm wrote:

is there a legal alcohol limit for a cyclist?

As far as I can tell no, alcohol limits only applies to drivers of mechanically propelled vehicles. There is a separate offence for cyclists to do with being unable to control there vehicle.

BostonB

In my student years mates were stopped and asked to walk on a few occasions.

pete4130

I was stopped before, after a night out cycling home, about 1am. I breezed thru some red lights without stopping (obviously checking there was nothing coming either way). I had a few drinks on me. A few hundred metres up the road a cop car pulled me over about the red light. It was obvious I had a few drinks to them when they were talking to me and said that I coul dbe charged with being in control of a pedal cycle while under the influence of alcohol. I was told to walk the rest of the way home and to report to the garda station within 7 days to show my bike with full lights and reflectors (I was on my fixie so they were lucky it even had a brake on it).
I arrived at the police station a week later, lights and reflectors only to be giggled at by the cops in the station.
Generally your almost invisible to the police on a bike unless you do something that catches their attention if/when it isn't busy. Thats what I've found at least in the last 10 years cycling the streets of Dublin.

seamus

The alcohol limit doesn't apply to cyclists, however the law is similar to that of drug-driving - if a garda forms an opinion that you're unable to control your vehicle and you have been drinking, then you'll be done regardless of how much you've consumed.

It's not the same offence as drink-driving, so it doesn't lead to the same hefty penalties.

Ghost Rider

There is something to be said for the "auto-pilot" argument but, tas I recall, that's what drivers used to say too after a few jars.

I've cycled many, many times with a few beers on me and I've only ever fallen off the bike twice.:)

Then again, I fell off the bike twice...!:eek:

rubadub

I was looking at my bike and was stopped, they said they "hope I you are not going to cycle that." Said they would be circling the area and would bring me in if I was.

I do cycle sometimes after a few, if I consider it safe enough. Some say a bike can do no damage, that is not the point, if you are pissed you can swerve and wobble out into the front of a car and cause them to crash or hit somebody else, or you. I am usually freewheeling home at 6am with very little traffic.

If I am very bad the bike is used like a zimmer frame.

conor rowan

a friend of mine from college ended up in court over cycling home drunk. bear in mind he was that drunk that he crashed into the garda car. as far as i can remember he received a small fine for his troubles,
in saying that ive cycled home in varying states of sobriety and never had any problems/run ins with any gardaí ive met on the way ( not that im advocating drunk cycling)
i think a lot depends on what state your in/how much danger youre putting yourself in and the garda you meet.

mkdon05

rubadub wrote:

If I am very bad the bike is used like a zimmer frame.

ROFLMAO

cunnins4

I've cycled through a few garda checkpoints jarred and they just let me fly through without looking twice at me. Grinning because i thought i'd gotten one up on the lads, then one time i fell off because i closed my eyes going up a hill (at a snail's pace)-hit the curb and off i went. I was going so slow i didn't even hurt myself, just fell to the side still holding the bike and landed on the grass. I knocked a glove off my hand and forgot about it and went home. Found it the next day on my way to work. hehe!

Haven't done it in a while though, it's not too bright an idea really. But if i'm really broke and can't afford a nitelink home, the bike'll be coming out with me! All the lads outside hailing taxis and i just whip out a set of lights from my pocket and unlock the bike! Ya get the odd clown who'll try hailing ya like a taxi too!

Oh, and the auto pilot thing is so true-hence why i closed my eyes that time!

Victor

cunnins4 wrote:

Haven't done it in a while though, it's not too bright an idea really. But if i'm really broke and can't afford a nitelink home, the bike'll be coming out with me!

Whoa dude!

If you can't afford the Nitelink, buy 1 drink less.

cunnins4

Victor wrote:

Whoa dude!

If you can't afford the Nitelink, buy 1 drink less.

Ah but the one extra drink + bike = more fun!!!

These would also be on my absolutely smashed nights when the entire night might only cost me 15 or 20 quid (naggin/shoulder of southy and a bottle of lucozade, the sign of a true bum!)

Hungrycol

Broke this one red light (of many) a few weeks ago and sure enough a Garda 4x4 (traffic corp me ar*s) pulled up beside me and Mr Passenger Garda leaned his head out the window and said "You'll stop at the next red light won't you?", to which I dutifully replied I would and said sorry as you do. So following his instruction I stopped at the next red light. I did what I was told and I'm free to go through all red lights from now on, the Garda said so

Capt'n Midnight

I've heard of people carrying bikes home from the pub because they were worried about being done if they wheeled it home.

Then again if you have too many it affects your balance so you'll know soon enough.

Your Man

a man in the know told me only if you appear unfit to safely cycle will you be stopped. ive seen on many occasions friends of mine take bad falls while cycling drunk, not a good idea

flickerx

Hmm. I'm constantly on the bike either blind drunk or E'd off my face. I'm never worried about the cops, they dont seem to take any interest as mentioned above, but I try to do it less these days, after accidents (which I had no recollection of) became more frequent. One day I woke up with my entire right thigh black and purple, and couldnt walk properly for a week... still no idea what happened, but it occured somewhere on the way home on the bike. Another time an acquaintance saw me going up Church Street, in the middle of the road, with a line of cars behind me beeping and shouting at me, with me telling them all to F off. Again, no recollection, woke up the next day with a serious gash on my face above my left eye (one benefit was that I looked so bad that they told me to take the day off work early :-)

Drug cycling is much easier to deal with than drink cycling.

jaycummins

I've cycled a few times home drunk before but i'd never cycle through town locked. i can hardly cycle through town sober with all the pyscho drivers. it is good though when your drunk, going down a hill at 60kmph with no hand on the bars just screaming your head off. lol. man thats great!

Cianos

I HATE public transport, and Dublin is a chaotic warzone at 3am as every drunken fool is out trying to get a taxi. It feels great cycling by them all:cool:

It's also great for clearing your head and makes you that bit more ready for a good nights kip.

seamus

Cianos wrote:

I HATE public transport, and Dublin is a chaotic warzone at 3am as every drunken fool is out trying to get a taxi. It feels great cycling by them all:cool:

It's also great for clearing your head and makes you that bit more ready for a good nights kip.

Driving in the city centre at 3am is dangerous enough. You would have to be off your tits to even consider cycling there at that time. How many pedestrians have you mown down so far?

flickerx

flickerx wrote: »

Hmm. I'm constantly on the bike either blind drunk or E'd off my face.

my past caught up with me on sunday night, after many close shaves i was involved with a collision with a bus, no idea who hit who i was so drunk, had been on a 2 and a half day binge after a breakup with my partner, but got up after i regained consciousness and cycled off, with people telling me to come back and wait for the ambulance, all i could hear was the rushing in my ears.

woke up monday morning totally destroyed, went straight to my local A+E, tomorrow i am going to the hospital again to see if they need to put a wire in my right hand where it is broken, i cant write, hold anything in my right hand, and am typing this now with one hand, my left (i am right handed). skin taken off my left arm, left leg, left hip, small gash on my face, various other cuts and bruises. i really dont want this steel pin in my hand but they are saying it might be necessary if the splints dont set the bones right.

needless to say i'm not in the best form, cant get up on the bike again for ages, the poxy bus for me!!!

be warned. dont binge and bike.

Victor

You've learned you lesson the hard way. Take care of yourself.

Wez

And your original post has pretty much been my justification for doing it.. Not good to hear that's happened to you man! Best of luck getting better!

flickerx

No wire to be put in my hand, thank christ, not yet anyway.

Have to go back again same time next week for more x-rays, etc.

Going to bed now after heavy painkillers. Mmmm....

t5pwr

I got done about 12 years ago for reckless driving on a pedal bike, fined in court.
Won't go into the details but it didn't involve drink or drugs just sheer recklessness.

So I suppose you could be brought up on something like that

oneeyedsnake

I had a crash this summer on the bike.Day before heading off to croatia for a few weeks I was in town on a bender all I remember is being in judge roy beans on nassau street and then scene missing, then lying face down on westmorlan street with some taxi driver beeping and shouting at me.Bad brusing on my elbow.I'll probally do it again though such is the enormity of my stupidity.

*Page*

My partner was quite drunk the other weekend so much so he needed to sit down for a rest before cycling home...

2 Garda's came up to him asked him if the bike was his, then told him to hop on and go home as he was too drunk to be loitering around on the streets...


i guess that there is no limit...

BostonB

A few people I know were told to get off and walk, by Garda. Guess it depends who you meet. I remember one night many moons ago, standing chatting to a mate early in the morning, on our way back from an opening of something where there was free wine or something. Garda car pulls up, and Garda tells us to get off home. My mate tries to get on the bike and manages to fall head over butt over it, landing in a heap beside the car. "Guess you'd better walk" was the dry comment from the car.

I think you can be charged with something though.

Ghost Rider

Strange as it may sound, the cops may have had a point. Dublin city centre can be pretty dangerous for pedestrians, especially those who are drunk and therefore not very alert. Nearly everyone I know (including myself) has been started on at some stage by random agressors. In fact, I'd say it's happened a few times to most of my friends. Thing is, if you cycle, it never happens.

I'm not suggesting cycling drunk is a good idea - I don't think it is, and FlickerX's tale is a sorry one - but there's a lot to be said for cycling through Dublin's streets at night instead of walking them.

*Page* wrote: »

My partner was quite drunk the other weekend so much so he needed to sit down for a rest before cycling home...

2 Garda's came up to him asked him if the bike was his, then told him to hop on and go home as he was too drunk to be loitering around on the streets...


i guess that there is no limit...

rubadub

If cycling you could swerve and cause a car to have an accident too. You can be done for just being drunk walking in a public place so no doubt it could be done for cycling too.

I also have drank too much like flickerx and cycled home and cannot remember. I have come out of a haze and found myself walking the bike too, so it seems I might still have some sense in that state. I usually cycle to a pub nearby- to stop myself I have considered getting there and deflating my tyres- this will stop me cycling home! and it protects against theft. Even if it is a long walk I usually wont remember it (god & guinness willing)

the boss of me

flickerx wrote: »

my past caught up with me on sunday night, after many close shaves i was involved with a collision with a bus, no idea who hit who i was so drunk, had been on a 2 and a half day binge after a breakup with my partner, but got up after i regained consciousness and cycled off, with people telling me to come back and wait for the ambulance, all i could hear was the rushing in my ears.

woke up monday morning totally destroyed, went straight to my local A+E, tomorrow i am going to the hospital again to see if they need to put a wire in my right hand where it is broken, i cant write, hold anything in my right hand, and am typing this now with one hand, my left (i am right handed). skin taken off my left arm, left leg, left hip, small gash on my face, various other cuts and bruises. i really dont want this steel pin in my hand but they are saying it might be necessary if the splints dont set the bones right.

needless to say i'm not in the best form, cant get up on the bike again for ages, the poxy bus for me!!!

be warned. dont binge and bike.

Hard luck Kev, when I was young and foolish I used to bike and drive too. The last time I did it was 17/11/1993 to be exact, it was also the night that Ireland drew with N Ire to qualify for the 1994 world cup and you can imagine the celebrations that followed.
Anyway after about 15 pints and 10 shorts (shots weren't invented) we left the pub and I got my bike and tried to ride home from me mates house. For some reason I couldn't steer :rolleyes: , so at the end of his road I crashed into the kerb and fell over the handlebars right into a big dirty pile of dog sh1te.
Next morning woke up with the hangover from hell saw the dogsh1t all over my jacket and promptly threw up. I didn't have any injuries other than a big dent in my pride.
So don't beat yourself up too much mate, you're not the first and certainly won't be the last...hope you're back in the saddle soon !!

doozerie

Cycling while drunk is explicitly listed in the Irish Road Traffic Act (section 51, I believe, for anyone that has access to that act). So too is being drunk in charge of a horse drawn vehicle, etc. Unfortunately I can't find a copy of the Irish act online but it is available on one of the irish legal sites. The appropriate section of the UK traffic act is easy to find online though, and it is very similarly worded - it is section 30 here:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/ukpga_19880052_en_3

The penalty in Ireland for being drunk while cycling is a fine of up to €800 and/or a prison sentence of up to 3 months (these are written in the Irish act), so it is taken seriously, regardless of what any individual garda might say or do about it.

Incidentally, it is generally acknowledged that there is a very casual attitude to drink driving in this country, which is why it remains so prevalent. Personally, like a lot of people, I can't understand how anyone can justify driving while drunk. However, some of the view expressed here suggest that cycling while drunk, or high, is acceptable and chances are some of the people expressing that view would themselves be very opposed to drink driving. The truth is that both are dangerous, as already described by several posters, and arguing that drunk cycling is acceptable gives moral justification to the idiots that argue that drunk driving is acceptable.

seamus

doozerie wrote: »

Cycling while drunk is explicitly listed in the Irish Road Traffic Act

Which one?

Incidentally, it is generally acknowledged that there is a very casual attitude to drink driving in this country, which is why it remains so prevalent. Personally, like a lot of people, I can't understand how anyone can justify driving while drunk. However, some of the view expressed here suggest that cycling while drunk, or high, is acceptable and chances are some of the people expressing that view would themselves be very opposed to drink driving. The truth is that both are dangerous, as already described by several posters, and arguing that drunk cycling is acceptable gives moral justification to the idiots that argue that drunk driving is acceptable.

While the reasoning behind "drink cycling is less dangerous" is obvious, I can't see how anyone thinks it's a remotely good idea. You need to have your wits about you cycling home in the blistering sunshine through Dublin streets. Cycling through insane-taxi-driver filled streets in the middle of the night while pissed, is just asking for trouble. Not to mention the number of pedestrians who are also pissed wandering around.

Ghost Rider

Is there a penalty for being drunk in charge of a body?

doozerie

seamus wrote: »

Which one?

The 1962 act, I believe.

seamus wrote:

While the reasoning behind "drink cycling is less dangerous" is obvious, I can't see how anyone thinks it's a remotely good idea.

I don't agree that drink cycling is less dangerous than drink driving. It can be in that if a drunk cyclist collides with someone/something, then that person/thing _might_ end up less damaged than if they were hit by a car, but that only applies if the cyclist is the only cause of direct harm/injury. Quite often, the person that causes an accident is not involved in the resulting collision at all (e.g. where the collision occurs as a driver swerves to avoid a car/cyclist driving toward them on the wrong side of the road), so the consequences of the collision are potentially the same regardless of whether the collision arises out of the stupid antics of a drunk driver or a drunk cyclist.

seamus

doozerie wrote: »

The 1962 act, I believe.

You got me on the right track, tis the 1961 act, section 51.

51.—(1) A person shall not, in a public place—

( a ) drive or attempt to drive, or be in charge of, animal-drawn vehicle, or

( b ) drive or attempt to drive a pedal cycle, while he is under the influence of intoxicating liquor or a drug to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the vehicle or cycle.

(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary conviction, in the case of a first offence, to a fine not exceeding twenty pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding one month or to both such fine and such imprisonment and, in the case of a second or any subsequent offence, to a fine not exceeding fifty pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding three months or to both such fine and such imprisonment.

(3) A person liable to be charged with an offence under this section shall not, by reference to the same occurrence, be liable to be charged under section 12 of the Licensing Act, 1872, with the offence of being drunk while in charge, on a highway or other public place, of a carriage.

(4) Where a member of the Garda Síochána is of opinion that a person is committing or has committed an offence under this section, he may arrest the person without warrant.

I don't agree that drink cycling is less dangerous than drink driving
...so the consequences of the collision are potentially the same regardless of whether the collision arises out of the stupid antics of a drunk driver or a drunk cyclist.

Well, I would say that the likely potential damage is far less for a drunken cyclist. A drunk driver is far more likely to cause more damage than a drunk cyclist because of the size of the vehicle. One would hope/assume that a driver encountering a drunk cyclist, is not drunk himself and therefore can take appropriate action. The chances of a serious accident being caused by a drunken cyclist are far less than the chances of a serious accident by a drunken driver.

doozerie

seamus wrote: »

You got me on the right track, tis the 1961 act, section 51.

I saw a printed version of this act recently, which gave the fines in euros, and I think the fine listed was up to €800 (as opposed to the "twenty pounds" in the text that you quoted), and also I think that it didn't explicitly list a first and second offence for cycling while drunk (i.e. the fine and/or imprisonment (up to 3 months) were basically for a first offence).

seamus wrote:

Well, I would say that the likely potential damage is far less for a drunken cyclist. A drunk driver is far more likely to cause more damage than a drunk cyclist because of the size of the vehicle. One would hope/assume that a driver encountering a drunk cyclist, is not drunk himself and therefore can take appropriate action. The chances of a serious accident being caused by a drunken cyclist are far less than the chances of a serious accident by a drunken driver.

I don't share your optimism about the chances of an accident being less serious if caused by a drunken cyclist. If a third-party/driver has to take drastic action to avoid a collision with another object, be that a person on a bicycle or a person in a car (drunk or otherwise), then the potential outcome is the same.

The circumstances (such as pedestrians at risk, available space for the non-drunk driver to manoeuvre around the drunk cyclist/driver, etc.) will dictate whether the relative speed of the (drunk) person causing the accident, or their relative size, will have a significant influence on the outcome of the incident, but as there is no way of predicting the circumstances in advance I think it is reckless to assume that a drunk cyclist is less of a danger to others than a drunk driver.

Victor

Ghost Rider wrote: »

Is there a penalty for being drunk in charge of a body?

Being intoxicated in public is an offence.

blorg

@doozerie- I still think you can assume the cyclist will be less of a danger. How much less is open to debate and it's certainly not a good idea. Your argument would also apply to drunken pedestrians crossing the road, and while they are certainly a danger, again, less so than a driver (or a cyclist.)

doozerie

blorg wrote: »

@doozerie- I still think you can assume the cyclist will be less of a danger. How much less is open to debate and it's certainly not a good idea.

Assuming that a drunk cyclist is less of a danger suggests that you can't think of a situation where a drunk cyclists is at least as much of a danger as a drunk driver. I can think of several off the top of my head:

- drunk cyclist cycling on the wrong side of the road towards oncoming traffic
- drunk cyclist pulling out of a junction straight into moving traffic
- drunk cyclist breaking a red light and crossing moving traffic
- drunk cyclist veering suddenly further into the road while being overtaken

None of these problems are unique to a cyclist being drunk, but being drunk makes them more likely to occur. In each case, whatever about the danger the cyclist puts himself/herself in, the situation is also dangerous for those other road users that end up swerving, or braking hard, to avoid the idiot on the bike.

I have seen quite a few near misses during my daily commute, where an idiot cyclist/biker/driver/pedestrian has done something clearly stupid, and blindly/ignorantly kept on going regardless of the near carnage that they caused behind them as other road users took evasive action to avoid squashing the muppet who caused the problem in the first place. Mix some drink with the same idiot and the danger they pose increases significantly.

blorg wrote:

Your argument would also apply to drunken pedestrians crossing the road, and while they are certainly a danger, again, less so than a driver (or a cyclist.)

Yes, drunken pedestrians crossing the road stupidly do pose a danger, which is why there are laws against crossing the road dangerously too. And again, the danger they pose is not just to themselves.

Civilian_Target

Crap sober cyclists commit the offences you've listed on a regular basis.

The problem with drunken cycling is basically that, once you have a drop of alcohol in you, you are solely responsible for any accident you may be involved in, regardless of whether it's your fault or not. If you get hit by a bus while even a little bit drunk on a bike, you have no recourse.

doozerie

Civilian_Target wrote: »

Crap sober cyclists commit the offences you've listed on a regular basis.

Yes, they do, as I mentioned in my post. Put drink in people, stick them on a bike, and you'll see more of it, which cannot be a good thing.

Civilian_Target wrote:

The problem with drunken cycling is basically that, once you have a drop of alcohol in you, you are solely responsible for any accident you may be involved in, regardless of whether it's your fault or not. If you get hit by a bus while even a little bit drunk on a bike, you have no recourse.

That is only a problem for the drunk cyclist. They voluntarily put themselves in that position by cycling drunk. Personally, I don't care what people do to themselves, drunk or otherwise, as that is their choice. What I do care about though, is what they do to others (as this could include me), and by cycling drunk they put other people at risk.

doozerie

I found the more recent update to the older Road Traffic Act 1961, which update the amount of the fine that may be applied.

The Road Traffic Act 1961, section 51, is available here:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0051.html#zza24y1961s51

...and the more recent update is here:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2002/en/act/pub/0012/sec0023.html#sec23

...and here is the actual text of the update to section 51 (section b refers to cyclists, and is in addition to a possible prison sentence of up to 3 months):

10 Section 51(2)(a)

In the case of a first offence, a fine not exceeding €800

In the case of a second or any subsequent offence, a fine not exceeding €1,500


11 Section 51(2)(b)

A fine not exceeding €800

oneeyedsnake

Listen mate I don't mean to piss on your parade but no one cares.I'm a student,so I'm invariably skint,so on the average night out I'll have 15 euro,20tops to get pissed on.I can spend 10 euro getting to and from the pub club or I can do it for free on my bike and get properly twisted in the process.For me(and my mates) there is no competition.I imagine its qiute a funny sight seeing a small peloton of pissed maniacs flying through Drumcondra in the early hours.

doozerie wrote: »

I found the more recent update to the older Road Traffic Act 1961, which update the amount of the fine that may be applied.

The Road Traffic Act 1961, section 51, is available here:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0051.html#zza24y1961s51

...and the more recent update is here:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2002/en/act/pub/0012/sec0023.html#sec23

...and here is the actual text of the update to section 51 (section b refers to cyclists, and is in addition to a possible prison sentence of up to 3 months):

The Chessplayer

michaelm wrote: »

Serious question - is there a legal alcohol limit for a cyclist? It's not that I'm planning to be irresponsible or anything but I have on the odd occasion cycled to my local for (at most) 2 drinks - last week I passed two gardai doing breath tests, they didn't stop me but it got me thinking. Does anyone know of a cyclists who has ever been tested or is it a case of "unless you are behaving in an irresponsible way while in charge of a mechanically propelled something or other"?

The Chessplayer has good experience in the field of drunken bicycling. I'm a keen cyclist and was often to be seen cycling drunk in the days of yore, before I had a car - not that I drink-drive now (it just so happens that I live within walking distance of a plethora of public houses).

I've been stopped, heavily intoxicated, by the guards on my bike - but only because I had no light, and was dressed in dark clothes. In any case, they just told me to get a light and sent me on my way.

The Chessplayer

Actually, I would be a major advocate of drunk bicycling - although I've never done it in the city centre, but I fully intend to in the coming weekend just for a laugh.

I might even buy a pair of tour-de-france shorts and lash them on in the jacks at closing time, and grab my helmet from behind the bar.

Capt'n Midnight

The Chessplayer wrote: »

lash them on in the jacks at closing time, and grab my helmet from behind

:eek:

Ciaran500

doozerie wrote: »

- drunk cyclist cycling on the wrong side of the road towards oncoming traffic
- drunk cyclist pulling out of a junction straight into moving traffic
- drunk cyclist breaking a red light and crossing moving traffic
- drunk cyclist veering suddenly further into the road while being overtaken

Everyone of those situations could be far, far worse if you added an out of control 1 tonne lump of metal capable of 100mph+ at the press of a pedal. The idea that a drunk cyclist is just as dangerous as a drunk driver is ridiculous.

doozerie

oneeyedsnake wrote: »

Listen mate I don't mean to piss on your parade but no one cares.I'm a student,so I'm invariably skint,so on the average night out I'll have 15 euro,20tops to get pissed on.I can spend 10 euro getting to and from the pub club or I can do it for free on my bike and get properly twisted in the process.For me(and my mates) there is no competition.I imagine its qiute a funny sight seeing a small peloton of pissed maniacs flying through Drumcondra in the early hours.

Well, I suppose someone has to keep Natural Selection going. Bravo.

doozerie

Ciaran500 wrote: »

Everyone of those situations could be far, far worse if you added an out of control 1 tonne lump of metal capable of 100mph+ at the press of a pedal. The idea that a drunk cyclist is just as dangerous as a drunk driver is ridiculous.

That say that each of those situations "could be far, far worse" if the drunk person were driving a car, suggesting that you believe there may be times when a drunk cyclist is just as dangerous, yet in your next sentence you completely dismiss drunk cyclists as being a danger. That is an impressive leap of logic, which your own words discredit.