The Cult leaders of today would have been the prophets of yesteryear

PoleStar

A light hearted note here!

Something occured to me recently, stemming from a question which I frequently ponder. And that is, why have there been no recent revelations, and by this I guess I mean "mainstream" revelations from god. Considering history, the most recent revelation from god to man was in the 5th century when Mohammed was enlighted by god to write the Koran. In the millenium before that, we have many "mainstream" religions sprouting up, but nothing major since then.

My theory is that society of the time which was quite undeveloped and had little scientific knowledge, was fertile ground for preachers of new religions.

Nowadays, mainstream religion is established and thus anyone who wants to "break into the market" with a new religion has to contend with thousands of years of established doctrine and "faith" and thus in the cut-throat (excuse the pun but I guess many have died because of religion!) marketplace for religion, it is almost impossible to break into. I guess the new "prophet" would also have to contend with modern scientific knowledge and thus stating his "divine" knowledge would be much more difficult.

Which brings me to the cults. Most people, religious and atheists/agnostics alike, are quick to write these people off as complete loonies. However, I wonder, if these people had been around when society was more welcoming of such preaching that perhaps they could have established what would now be mainstream religions.

Am I making sense?

I guess it goes back to the old saying, I am not sure how its worded exactly, but "one man talking to animals is insane, a hundred people believing in overlords from outerspace is a cult, a billion believing in a man who can walk on water and come back to life, thats religion".

Esmereldina

PoleStar wrote:

A light hearted note here!

Something occured to me recently, stemming from a question which I frequently ponder. And that is, why have there been no recent revelations, and by this I guess I mean "mainstream" revelations from god. Considering history, the most recent revelation from god to man was in the 5th century when Mohammed was enlighted by god to write the Koran. In the millenium before that, we have many "mainstream" religions sprouting up, but nothing major since then.

My theory is that society of the time which was quite undeveloped and had little scientific knowledge, was fertile ground for preachers of new religions.

Nowadays, mainstream religion is established and thus anyone who wants to "break into the market" with a new religion has to contend with thousands of years of established doctrine and "faith" and thus in the cut-throat (excuse the pun but I guess many have died because of religion!) marketplace for religion, it is almost impossible to break into. I guess the new "prophet" would also have to contend with modern scientific knowledge and thus stating his "divine" knowledge would be much more difficult.

Which brings me to the cults. Most people, religious and atheists/agnostics alike, are quick to write these people off as complete loonies. However, I wonder, if these people had been around when society was more welcoming of such preaching that perhaps they could have established what would now be mainstream religions.

Am I making sense?

I guess it goes back to the old saying, I am not sure how its worded exactly, but "one man talking to animals is insane, a hundred people believing in overlords from outerspace is a cult, a billion believing in a man who can walk on water and come back to life, thats religion".

It's an interesting argument all right. Just another observation to add: apparently Jesus was only one of thousands of 'Messiahs' to be crucified that year in Jerusaleum. He just happened to be lucky in that he cracked the religion market while the others got forgotten. For whatever reason, messiahs were all the rage in those days though, so there must be something in the argument that people were more receptive to those kinds of explanations for their lives then. Still, as far as modern religions/cults go, scientology isn't doing too badly, is it?

PDN

Esmereldina wrote:

apparently Jesus was only one of thousands of 'Messiahs' to be crucified that year in Jerusaleum.

This is a staggering and hilarious claim. Thousands of people claiming to be Messiahs and crucified in a single year? Since no historian has ever heard of such a thing, maybe you could cite some sources? Or are you just making it up as you go along?

pinksoir

PDN wrote:

This is a staggering and hilarious claim. Thousands of people claiming to be Messiahs and crucified in a single year? Since no historian has ever heard of such a thing, maybe you could cite some sources? Or are you just making it up as you go along?

She might be thinking of the 'Life of Brian'...

Scofflaw

PDN wrote:

This is a staggering and hilarious claim. Thousands of people claiming to be Messiahs and crucified in a single year? Since no historian has ever heard of such a thing, maybe you could cite some sources? Or are you just making it up as you go along?

It's certainly a wildly exaggerated claim! There do seem to have been plenty of popular movements in first century Roman Palestine, but nowhere near enough to provide thousands of Messiahs for crucifixion...

cordially,
Scofflaw

5uspect

pinksoir wrote:

She might be thinking of the 'Life of Brian'...

Scofflaw wrote:

There do seem to have been plenty of popular movements in first century Roman Palestine

I know where this is going.

Ahem, anyway, it does seem to make sense that once one or two religions reach a critical mass in the population that any new religious movements are going to have a hard time.

It seems easier for existing faiths to mutate and fracture than for totally new ones to arise.

Galvasean

There was a program on History Channel HD (don't have that channel so couldn't watch) called 'Rivals of Jesus'. The synopsis said that there were many other people back in the day who claimed to be the son of God and could allegedly cure the sick. The show ask why they were forgotten while Jesus is so prominent. Anyone catch it?

Esmereldina

Hmmm, well I don't remember the exact numbers but there were definitely a lot of rivals to Jesus in the Messiah stakes. I read it a few years ago... will try to dig out the reference to this at some stage, but I don't think I'll have time today.

Red Hand

"On the markets this quarter (millennium), I'd advise to buy, buy, buy Sci****logy.

To make big gains from a proposed takeover of a growing yet undisclosed sect later this term, I would take whatever friends, family and acquaintances you have and put them on a DRIP (Direct Reinvestment Plan, ie, get them hooked, they become frevent enthusiasts who convert others, who in turn become frevent enthusiasts who convert), and soon your stock will rise with the burgeoning market faster than a 5th-7th centuary Irish monk on a converting mission of the European continent."

Húrin

PoleStar wrote:

A light hearted note here!

Something occured to me recently, stemming from a question which I frequently ponder. And that is, why have there been no recent revelations, and by this I guess I mean "mainstream" revelations from god. Considering history, the most recent revelation from god to man was in the 5th century when Mohammed was enlighted by god to write the Koran. In the millenium before that, we have many "mainstream" religions sprouting up, but nothing major since then.

Well in the 19th century there were prophets such as Joseph Smith of America who founded the Mormon branch of Christianity; and also Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of India who founded the 'Ahmedi' branch of Islam.

Both established followings, that were too big to be dismissed as cults, but still rejected by the mainstream of their religions. Remember also that prophets like Isaiah, Elijah and even Mohammed had the benefit of preaching to a much smaller community of believers (Israelite Jews and pre-Muslim Arabs, respectively) than the millions that the latter-day prophets were trying to reach.

Bexz

PoleStar wrote:

A light hearted note here!

Something occured to me recently, stemming from a question which I frequently ponder. And that is, why have there been no recent revelations, and by this I guess I mean "mainstream" revelations from god. Considering history, the most recent revelation from god to man was in the 5th century when Mohammed was enlighted by god to write the Koran. In the millenium before that, we have many "mainstream" religions sprouting up, but nothing major since then.

My theory is that society of the time which was quite undeveloped and had little scientific knowledge, was fertile ground for preachers of new religions.

Nowadays, mainstream religion is established and thus anyone who wants to "break into the market" with a new religion has to contend with thousands of years of established doctrine and "faith" and thus in the cut-throat (excuse the pun but I guess many have died because of religion!) marketplace for religion, it is almost impossible to break into. I guess the new "prophet" would also have to contend with modern scientific knowledge and thus stating his "divine" knowledge would be much more difficult.

Which brings me to the cults. Most people, religious and atheists/agnostics alike, are quick to write these people off as complete loonies. However, I wonder, if these people had been around when society was more welcoming of such preaching that perhaps they could have established what would now be mainstream religions.

Am I making sense?

I guess it goes back to the old saying, I am not sure how its worded exactly, but "one man talking to animals is insane, a hundred people believing in overlords from outerspace is a cult, a billion believing in a man who can walk on water and come back to life, thats religion".

Yeah, you are making sense. I am an atheist: If a man (in nowadays) claims to be jesus, wot does society do? it will lock him into solitary confinment and pump him full of drugs! now, wot if say, a priest believed him? would that mean he is jesus or not?
Also, if I went back in time say 2000 years ago, and "made" a new religion, the people will be more inclined to accept my claim than they would today. This is due to knowledge, science, education many other reasons.
Religion is known as a meme, it's literally like a contagious disease, we cause it to be made but after that we have no control, thats wen people start to spread the word and begin recruiting new people into that "religion"/"cult", look up Richard Dawkings when he talks about memes its very interesting, but scarilly true!

indough

Aum Shinrikyo & the Scientologist camps are just two examples I can think of which are looked on as cults by many people.

Ekancone

Bexz wrote:

Yeah, you are making sense. I am an atheist: If a man (in nowadays) claims to be jesus, wot does society do? it will lock him into solitary confinment and pump him full of drugs! now, wot if say, a priest believed him? would that mean he is jesus or not?
Also, if I went back in time say 2000 years ago, and "made" a new religion, the people will be more inclined to accept my claim than they would today. This is due to knowledge, science, education many other reasons.
Religion is known as a meme, it's literally like a contagious disease, we cause it to be made but after that we have no control, thats wen people start to spread the word and begin recruiting new people into that "religion"/"cult", look up Richard Dawkins when he talks about memes its very interesting, but scarilly true!

Thats better...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memetics
Here is the link to memetics.

Yusuf Mirza

..Interesting. But Mirza Ghulam Ahmad really WAS the the Promised Messiah of the latter days. If there are so many claiments then how do we know who the real deal will be? Mirza Ghulam Ahmad fulfilled all the prophecys of Christianity and Islam alhamdoillah!!!

JimiTime

Yusuf Mirza wrote: »

..Interesting. But Mirza Ghulam Ahmad really WAS the the Promised Messiah of the latter days. If there are so many claiments then how do we know who the real deal will be? Mirza Ghulam Ahmad fulfilled all the prophecys of Christianity and Islam alhamdoillah!!!

How so? Could you detail the prophesies he fulfilled, both Muslim and Christian?

Dades

Aaargh! A zombie thread!

Big thread from Yusuf about his beliefs on Islam.
Jimi - you'll note Jakkass has been down the road you've started on already!

JimiTime

Dades wrote: »

Aaargh! A zombie thread!

Big thread from Yusuf about his beliefs on Islam.
Jimi - you'll note Jakkass has been down the road you've started on already!

Ahhh. Cheers Dades, never heard of these guys before. Should be interesting.

Yusuf Mirza

Mathew 23:39 “You will not see me again until you say blessed is HE who comes in the name of the Lord.”


Jesus said – “I shall come like a thief in the night and ONLY THOSE WHO LOOK FOR ME SHALL FIND ME”


Jesus came to preach the unity of God. He said “verily I say onto you your God id one God” and “why dost thou call me good? There is no one who is good but he who is in heaven” and “No servant can serve two masters,he will hate one and love the other”


This poor humble prophet of god was himself mad into a god by the people. He came with a simple message to warn and reform the Jewish people.

He told them “There are many things I want to say onto you but you cannot hear them. But when he comes he will say all things onto you” Now the Christians believe that the Holy ghost is that entity that was to come. But infact according to the original text the greek word used can only refer to a male, a person, a human.
Jesus told his people “a day shall come when people shall pray in a different way” and “This corner stone (of Solemens Temple) will be taken from here and given to another nation” Again Christians believe this to be Gentiles. The same Gentiles whome Jesus called Swine “he said go nowhere among the gentiles but to the Lost sheep of the house of Isreal” and I have not come but to the lost sheep of the house of Isreal”And also “why should I cast pearls to the swine (gentiles)”
So Paul is actually the person who created modern Christianity. He was vemently apposed by the other disciples including the brothers of Jesus to where they even paid him money to stop preaching to gentiles.

We believe Muhammad (saw) was that person who was to come which Jesus said would be a Prophet in the future. On the deathbed of Moses he said that “a great Prophet would come like unto me” Now Moses was a Law bearing prophet and Jesus brought no law. However Muhammad did.


God cometh from Teman,
And the Holy One from mount Paran~Selah~
His glory covereth the heavens,
And earth is full of His praise. Habakkuk 3:3
Notes:
1. "God" in a poetical language could mean; "God's Word",
(The Revelation).
2. "Teman" means South, i.e. area which is South of the
Land of Judah or South of Jerusalem.
3. "Holy One from mount Paran" is a reference to prophet
Muhammad (s.a.s.), as we shall soon discover from the
related texts from the other Books of the Bible.
"Paran" is a biblical name for the part of Arabia where prophet
Muhammad was born. When prophet Ishmael and his mother
were driven out by Sarah; they settled in the "Wilderness
of Paran" (Genesis 21:21). Prophet Ishmael happens to be
the progenitor of prophet Muhammad.
"mount Paran" is a reference to the mountain near Mekkah,
where theprophet received his first Revelation.

Nearly twenty centuries before the birth of prophet Muhammad and a short while before his own death, prophet Moses speaking on the subject of the Holy One from mount Paran, said to his people:
And he said, The Lord came from Sinai,
and rose up from Seir unto them;
he shined forth from mount Paran,
and he came with ten thousands of saints:
from his right hand {went} a fiery law for them.
Yea, he loved the people;
all his saints {are} in Thy hand:
and they sat down at Thy feet;
{every one} shall receive of Thy words.
(KJV) Deut 33:2
Notes:
1. "Sinai" The holy mountain where upon Moses spoke with God.
2. "Seir" The mountainous region between the Dead Sea and the Gulf
of Aqaba, where Moses spoke with God. See Deut. 2:1.
3. "ten thousandsof saints" Please read the next section.
4. "a fiery law" The only "Law" from the Almighty God that has come
to Paran (Arabia) in its history, which judges between the wicked and
benevolent, the evil and good, the immoral and moral,
the corrupt and virtuous, is "the Criterion" (Ar. al-Furqan),
a synonym for the'Holy Qur'an'.
5. "Thy words" The Holy Qur'an is the collection of "God's Words"

At the end of 628 A.D., the Meccans broke the Treaty of Hudaybiyah....
On 10 Ramadan, January 630, Muhammad set out at the head of the largest army every to leave Madina. Nearly all the men in the umma had volunteered and along the road their Bedouin allies joined the expedition bringing the number up to 10,000 men.
(On Thursday, 20 Ramadan Hijri 8 (11 January 630) Muslim army entered the city of Mekkah. The army was offered practically no resistance. Only a handful of Mekkan offered resistance. The rest stayed indoor.)
Muhammad had come to Mekkah not to persecute the Quraysh but to abolish the religion which had failed them. ...he rode round the Ka'aba seven times, touching the black stone each time and crying 'al-Llahu Akbar!' The shout was taken up by his
10,000 soldiers and soon the whole city resounded with words
that symbolished the final victory of Islam.
Next Muhammad turned his attention to the 360 idols around the shrine; crowded on to their roofs and balconies, the Quraysh watched him smash each idol while he recited the verse:
"the truth has come, and falsehood has vanished away;
surely falsehood is certain to vanish." (Sura 17:82)


So if this is true then that means that Messiah will come from Islam.
Jesus told his disciples that he would return. He told them there would be many false Messiahs. But he told them how they would recognise his re advent. Just as John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of Elijah one would come in his power and spirit.

One of the prophecies which is strong is the prophecy of the sign of the eclips.


Joel 2:31 "The sun will be turned into darkness and the MOON INTO BLOOD, before the great and terrible day of the Lord comes.


Isaiah 13:10 “For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not flash forth their light; The sun will be dark when it rises And the moon will not shed its light.”


Mark 13:24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.”


Luke 21:25 “And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;”


Similarly in Islam;
“When you are in a wretched state Jesus the son of Miriam will descend among you WHILE HE IS YOU IMAM FROM AMONG YOU” - Buckari


Hazrat Imam Baqari Muhammad bin Alira has narrated the following Hadees (saying of the Holy Prophet Muhammadsa):
“For our Mahdi (Divine Reformer) there are two signs which have never appeared before since the creation of the heavens and the earth, namely the moon will be eclipsed on the first night in Ramazan (i.e. on the first of the nights on which a lunar eclipse can occur) and the sun will be eclipsed in its middle (i.e. on the middle day of the days on which a solar eclipse can occur), and these signs have not appeared since God created the heavens and the earth.”
(Dare Qutani Vol 1, page 188)

Indeed the truth of this Prophecy lies in the Quran its self;

“He asks: When will be the day of Resurrection? When the eye is dazzled, And the moon is eclipsed, And the sun and the moon are brought together, On that day man will say, whither to escape?” (Ch. 75: vs.7-11)

All scholars of Suni, Shia and Ahmadiyya all concur that this verse indeed consttes a divine prophecy about the appearance of the Mahdi.

Eclipse is when the sun and the moon are one behind the other (brought together).
Now I must tell you that this actually happened. Yes not a lie.

Now eclipses are quite common and are not at all mysterious. Bu the point of the eclipse, is when it would happen and the circumstances of its happening.

No the rule is that

• there is a claim
• people ask for the eclipse as a sign
• it has to happen.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad mad his claim and for 3 years he was taunted with “where is the sign” by Christians and Muslims. Then the sign came. People clamoured and alhamdoillah it came to pass and Allah showed his sign in support if the Messiah.

In Mar 21st 1894 which was the 13th of Ramadan the Moon was eclipsed.
And on the 6th of April or 28th of Ramadan the Sun was eclipsed.
YOU CANNOT FAKE THIS SIGN. THIS SIGN IS NOT FOR LIARS. Then one month later the moon and sun were also eclipsed on the other side of the world over America and Europe.

One may write to or attend any observatory in which records are kept so that they may see for themselves if this event indeed happened.

This is the supreme miracle.

fitz0

Yusuf Mirza wrote: »

Now eclipses are quite common and are not at all mysterious. Bu the point of the eclipse, is when it would happen and the circumstances of its happening.

No the rule is that

• there is a claim
• people ask for the eclipse as a sign
• it has to happen.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad mad his claim and for 3 years he was taunted with “where is the sign” by Christians and Muslims. Then the sign came. People clamoured and alhamdoillah it came to pass and Allah showed his sign in support if the Messiah.

In Mar 21st 1894 which was the 13th of Ramadan the Moon was eclipsed.
And on the 6th of April or 28th of Ramadan the Sun was eclipsed.
YOU CANNOT FAKE THIS SIGN. THIS SIGN IS NOT FOR LIARS. Then one month later the moon and sun were also eclipsed on the other side of the world over America and Europe.

Eclipses have been predicted for thousands of years in China, does that make their astrologers prophets?

studiorat

Personally I'm all for the Cult of Princess Diana.
I could see that happening in the dim and distant...

Yusuf Mirza

...to each his own :rolleyes:

Yusuf Mirza

..as lightning comes from the east onto the west so shall be the coming of the son of man

...every eye shall see him

This is the supreme sign unto all men that the Messiah has come.

Lunar and Solar eclipses in the light of the laws of nature

Lunar and solar eclipses are phenomena which occur according to the laws of nature. The Holy Quran has repeatedly drawn our attention to natural phenomena. A discussion of the astronomical background is therefore appropriate and relevant. It helps in understanding the Hadees. The earth, the sun and the moon form a system of three bodies. The Holy Quran has referred to this system in a very beautiful way as follows:


"Holy is HE Who created all things in pairs, of what the earth grows and of themselves, and of what they know not. And a Sign for them is the night from which WE strip off the day, and lo ! they are left in darkness. And the sun is moving on to its determined goal. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing God. And for the moon WE have appointed stages, till it becomes again like an old dry twig of a palm-tree. It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor can the night outstrip the day. All of them float smoothly in an orbit" (Ya Sin 36: 37-41)

Five verses of the Holy Quran have been quoted here. In the first verse a fundamental fact has been mentioned that Almighty God has created all things in pairs. The second verse refers to the night and the day, which arise from the motion of the earth. The third verse refers to the motion of the sun and the fourth refers to the motion of the moon. In the fifth verse, the sun, the moon, the night and the day, are all mentioned together, and attention is drawn to the fact that the movements of the sun and the moon have their limits.

We learn from science that the earth and the moon move around each other and complete a revolution in one month, they form a pair. The earth and the moon jointly move around the sun and complete a revolution in one year. Thus the sun and earth-moon system form another pair. In the solar system there are numerous pairs within pairs. The sun with all its planets and their satellites moves around the center of the Galaxy completing a revolution in about two hundred million years. Like our sun, there are billions of stars in our Galaxy which move around the centerof the Galaxy with different periods. Holy is He Who created all things in pairs.

When the moon in the course of its motion around the earth, comes between the sun and earth in such a way that it prevents the light of the sun from reaching the earth, we have a solar eclipse; and when the earth comes between the sun and the moon in such a way that its shadow falls on the moon, we have a lunar eclipse. In astronomical terminology, we say that a solar eclipse occurs at new moon and a lunar eclipse occurs at full moon. At the time of the new moon, the longitudes of the sun and the moon are the same and the moon is said to be in conjunction. An eclipse does not occur at every new moon and full moon because for the occurrence of an eclipse it is necessary that the sun, the earth and the moon should be aligned. If the earth’s orbit around the sun and the moon’s orbit around the earth, were in the same plane, there would have been alignment twice every month, and hence there would have been one lunar eclipse and one solar eclipse every month. Actually the two orbital planes are inclined to each other by an angle of about five degrees, on account of which the maximum number of eclipses in a solar year does not exceed seven (four or five being solar and three or two being lunar). The minimum number of eclipses which can occur in a year is two, both being solar. For further details, see books on Spherical Astronomy.

The motion of the moon is quite complicated. To a first approximation, the moon moves around the earth in an elliptic orbit, on account of which its distance from the earth and its speed vary within certain limits. When the moon is closest to the earth it is said to be at perigee. The speed of the moon with respect to the earth is greatest when it is at perigee. On account of the gravitational attraction of the sun, the position of the perigee changes in space. Thus sometimes the moon moves faster in the early part of the month and sometimes it moves faster in latter part. Likewise the distance and velocity of the earth-moon pair with respect to the sun also changes within certain limits in accordance with the law of gravitation. As the Holy Quran says:

"The sun and the moon run their courses according to a fixed reckoning" (Al-Rahman 55:6)

The changes in the distances and velocities of the bodies have their effects on the dates on which the eclipses can occur.

Astronomers take the time of conjunction as the beginning of the lunar month. At that time the moon cannot be seen at all. The month of the Islamic Calendar (Hijri) begins with the first sighting of the lunar crescent, i.e.: when the phase of the moon becomes big enough to be visible. An excellent book dealing with the problem of the first visibility of the lunar crescent, has been written by Dr. Muhammad Ilyas. ( A modern Guide to astronomical Calculations of Islamic Calendar, Times & Qibla. Published by Berita Publishing Kuala Lumpur 1984)

If the Hijri Calendar is used, the dates on which a lunar eclipse can occur are 13, 14 and 15; and the dates on which a solar eclipse can occur are 27, 28 and 29. According to the prophecy, the lunar eclipse would occur on the first night and the solar eclipse would occur on the middle day in the month of Ramazan. This fixes the 13th of Ramazan for the lunar eclipse and the 28th of Ramazan for the solar eclipse.

In the Hadees, the word Qamar is used for the moon and not Hilal. The crescent of the first, second and third nights, is called Hilal while Qamar denotes the moon from the fourth night onward. (Aqrabul Mawarid vol. 2) Hence the interpretation that the first night Ramazan implies the 13th of Ramazan and not the first of Ramazan, is also supported by the word Qamar used in the Hadees, thus leaving no ambiguity.

culled from the essay written by
Saleh Muhammad Alladin
(Professor of Astronomy, Osmania University, Hyderabad, India)

nitrogen

PoleStar wrote: »

Which brings me to the cults. Most people, religious and atheists/agnostics alike, are quick to write these people off as complete loonies.

Organised religions are just accepted cults, and not different to new-age cults. Religious people calling members of these cults brainwashed and lunatics is hypocritical to say the very least.

You just have to look at Shoko Asahara from the Aum cult in Japan, and that's exactly how Islam and Christianity started - by following and believing into the teachings of power hungry con artists, who probably performed pseudo-alternative medicine and amateur magic tricks.

Húrin

Esmereldina wrote: »

It's an interesting argument all right. Just another observation to add: apparently Jesus was only one of thousands of 'Messiahs' to be crucified that year in Jerusaleum. He just happened to be lucky in that he cracked the religion market while the others got forgotten.

The others, if they existed, weren't resurrected.

Bexz wrote: »

Also, if I went back in time say 2000 years ago, and "made" a new religion, the people will be more inclined to accept my claim than they would today. This is due to knowledge, science, education many other reasons.

Not really. Very few people believed in Jesus when he left this world. It was only through a long, hard slog of evangelising that an appreciable number of communities emerged. And then there was that Roman emperor in the 4th century...

kiffer

Húrin wrote: »

The others, if they existed, weren't resurrected.

So no difference there then
Well that's not quiet accurate either kiffer... none of their followers claimed that they had been resurrected...
hummm ... or slightly more accurate, we have no records indicating that their followers claimed that they were resurrected...

Edit: also I've only glanced over the thread so I'm talking out of my ass here.