Suggestion: less personality based moderators

OTK

I get the sense on this site that the real community is limited to the moderators, flashing their mod badges around in forums they don't moderate.

On other forums the moderation is far less obvious.

Saying that mods are treated like normal users in other forums is like saying that squad cars are subject to normal traffic rules when not in pursuit of a criminal. True in theory but not in practice.

What if the mods used special accounts to moderate forums with a name like like "rec.motors-mod1"? Then when they want to post elsewhere they would do so under a second normal user account.

Or is being known as a moderator outside of their own forums the payoff for working for free?

mike65

Standard Issue Mods don't and can't moderate outside thier own domain but they might post something that could be considered unoffical moderation as and when. What they say has no 'legal' force though!

Mike.

Beruthiel

OTK wrote:

Saying that mods are treated like normal users in other forums is like saying that squad cars are subject to normal traffic rules when not in pursuit of a criminal. True in theory but not in practice.

I disagree, Mods have been banned many times from PI for example, so your comment doesn't stand there.
Have you reported whatever it is you're talking about? Links to examples would help.

What if the mods used special accounts to moderate forums with a name like like "rec.motors-mod1"?

The Admins would never have the time to do the necessary to make that happen and for the time required, there would need to be a very good reason for it.

Or is being known as a moderator outside of their own forums the payoff for working for free?

Why the chip there OTK? What's got your back up? What is the payoff you refer to?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

seamus

OTK wrote:

I get the sense on this site that the real community is limited to the moderators, flashing their mod badges around in forums they don't moderate.

While I don't deny that this may go on, I suspect that this is more a psychological thing on the part of non-mods, rather than something which actively goes on. People see the title under the name, and tend to then treat them as a moderator rather than another poster.
For comparison - if you saw a guy walking down the street who was clearly a Garda, but not on duty (i.e. had most of his uniform on, but no epaulets, etc), would you treat him as just another punter, or would you watch what you did anyway? I suspect the latter.

Can you give an example of this metaphorical badge-flashing?

What if the mods used special accounts to moderate forums with a name like like "rec.motors-mod1"? Then when they want to post elsewhere they would do so under a second normal user account.

This I suspect would be an administrative nightmare. For a start, somewhere a link would need to be maintained between the actual username and the moderator username, and it would need to be publically available. With 500 (?) moderators, I think it would just be a major pain in the ass. "Did I get banned by Smod3 or Smod6? seamus is Smod3, right? Oh no, maybe he's Smod4?". I just think it's an inelegant solution.

I've always been an advocate of "detagging" moderators outside of their own forums. That is, only posts on their forums will show them as a moderator. Posts on other forums, they just appear as normal. This is purely to allay the psychological fears of the other users.

Or is being known as a moderator outside of their own forums the payoff for working for free?

Being a moderator isn't a status symbol. Anyone who thinks so is completely deluded, and anyone who becomes a moderator for "glory" very quickly realises that there's no such payout.

mike65

Indeed its like trapsing around with a mop and bucket on many forums.

Mike.

6th

We've seen mods de-modded and even site banned recently ... how can people still be talking such shit?

Even if they used seperate accounts to mod they are still people with personalities and will mod as such.

If people think a mod is a mod of every forum then they must be too stupid to look at the list of forums they mod under their names.

cornbb

I think that the fact new users think there are a huge number of moderators stems from the fact that users who spend massive amounts of time on boards, or posting on boards, are more likely to become mods. So although < 0.5% of members are mods, they are much more visible.

The 'badge flashing' thing does happen occasionally alright - and I think its more of a subtle, cultural thing than something one can provide concrete examples of - but the vast majority of mods are easygoing, subtle people who got the job in the first place because they showed themselves to be consistently helpful in a particular area and non muppety. There is little real "power". I like the mop and bucket example

Oryx

Disagree with the OP. Im on here a lot (shame on me:) ), and I know who a lot of the mods are. Ive seen some of them get a whack for being out of line in forums they dont moderate. And I know there were two perma-banned a few weeks ago. But I so often come across members that I dont realise are mods unless I check their profile on the left. And they get treated just like the rest of us.

You will notice a bit of banter and in jokes between mods, especially on feedback. But thats just because of the admins special cult brainwashing techniques.;)

Karl Hungus

The OP's suggestion would be more trouble than it's worth. Imagine the feedback threads along the lines of "Who banned me?" "Who do I PM to get unbanned?" "OMG, that ****ing prat just banned me, I know it!"

The fact is, we get enough flak from some 'fight the power' users while being open and honest about things. Anonymous moderation would just give credence to the delusion of clandestine going ons.

Fysh

What is it with low post-count lurkers starting threads lately about mods being evil incarnate? I mean, seriously.

1) Mods get nothing for whatever work they do on the forums they moderate. (Luckily for me, Comics involves a minimum amount of actual work, but I know plenty of other fora aren't so easily maintained)

2) I've yet to see anyone seriously suggest that there are real benefits to being recognized as a mod outside the forum you moderate, other than the minimal "Well, you must have a bit of sense if you've been made a mod of somewhere" aspect. And as the recent bannings show, that doesn't serve as defence if you break the rules, mod or no mod.

3) There tends to be a correlation between being a mod and being around for quite a while. In general, I've found a similar level of treatment extended to long term users and mods outside their own forum. So I'd say it's more a case of people being regulars and thus known quantities.

440Hz

cornbb wrote:

the vast majority of mods are easygoing, subtle people who got the job in the first place because they showed themselves to be consistently helpful in a particular area and non muppety. There is little real "power". I like the mop and bucket example

Yet again... I agree with you!

Having said that, the bannings etc just show that there are a good share of muppet mods too. Its human nature. This isn't animal farm! Mods just keep a watchful eye on things in their forums. Mod cap comes off when you leave your patch! For the vast majority anyway.

WizZard

The detagging outside of modded forums is the best idea in my opinion. Does anyone (who is more familiar with vB) know if there is a mod/option that can be turned on for this feature.

In fact, I'd go the opposite way about it. Tag as a moderator only within the forum(s) that they mod, regardless of the user's tagline options.
For example, some mods have custom taglines due to being subscribers, so they should keep them in every forum except those that they mod.

Hobbes

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

QFT. A very good idea. Will allow the whiners to move onto something else

Crucifix

I think daveirl's suggestion is a better fit. It'd cut out a lot of the problems with out making the mods into a secret police.

bonkey

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Then the solution would seem to be to teach them how to read better.

Forums list who the moderators are, and the profile for a poster who's a moderator states the forum they're mod/smod of.

I haven't been a mod for some years now, and I *still* get the occasional PM from someone asking me to do some mod-stuff.

The problem is *not* how mods are identified. There's nothing anywhere saying I'm a mod (although there may be a thread I started as a mod still stickied).

Some people will always have the ability to misinterpret what you tell them. It doesn't matter how well you present the information, they'll still be able to get it wrong.

The current systems of identification are pretty comprehensive and simple to understand. I say let them be.

cornbb

I think removing "Moderator" from the tagline and replacing it with "Registered User" or a custom tagline would be the simplest and one of the most effective solutions. The list of modded forums would still appear below but its not quite as in-your-face as the tagline.

Dragan

OTK wrote:

I get the sense on this site that the real community is limited to the moderators, flashing their mod badges around in forums they don't moderate.

I disagree. I had my own group and community before i became a mod, that remains. I don't particular feel the need to be "friends" with other folk who are mods simply for that reason. I don't think any of the mods do.

440Hz

Tbh I really think its a minor thing. Most mods don't do it, so going to the hassle of removing "mod badges" etc is a bit overkill IMO. If a mod isn't wearing his/her user cap in a forum they don't mod then just say that to them, or the mod of that forum if you really have a problem with it.

I think the admins have enough to be getting on with to be honest.

6th

bonkey wrote:

Then the solution would seem to be to teach them how to read better.

Forums list who the moderators are, and the profile for a poster who's a moderator states the forum they're mod/smod of.

I haven't been a mod for some years now, and I *still* get the occasional PM from someone asking me to do some mod-stuff.

The problem is *not* how mods are identified. There's nothing anywhere saying I'm a mod (although there may be a thread I started as a mod still stickied).

Some people will always have the ability to misinterpret what you tell them. It doesn't matter how well you present the information, they'll still be able to get it wrong.

The current systems of identification are pretty comprehensive and simple to understand. I say let them be.

I get the same and I have never been a mod! The current system is fine but people will still make mistakes.

Asok

Is the link to the forum beside Mod: not a handy indicator .....

OTK

bonkey wrote:

Some people will always have the ability to misinterpret what you tell them. It doesn't matter how well you present the information, they'll still be able to get it wrong.

This is the kind of argument you often hear from people with poor user interface design skills or from people too familiar with a system to see how it appears from the outside. Not everyone has 10,000 posts.

If people are still contacting you believing you to be a mod then clearly years of having 'Moderator' underneath your username in every forum has led to people identifying you as such.

I'd agree with daveirl's suggestion.

6th

440Hz wrote:

Tbh I really think its a minor thing. Most mods don't do it, so going to the hassle of removing "mod badges" etc is a bit overkill IMO. If a mod isn't wearing his/her user cap in a forum they don't mod then just say that to them, or the mod of that forum if you really have a problem with it.

I think the admins have enough to be getting on with to be honest.

Well said.

tba

I agree we need less personality based Mods and more silicon based Mods.

copacetic

cornbb wrote:

I think removing "Moderator" from the tagline and replacing it with "Registered User" or a custom tagline would be the simplest and one of the most effective solutions. The list of modded forums would still appear below but its not quite as in-your-face as the tagline.

or you could edit it youself.

daveirls suggestion for the win, a small part of what I asked for in my forgotten feedback thread, sob:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055122572

Ruu_Old

Asok wrote:

Is the link to the forum beside Mod: not a handy indicator .....

You would think so.

tak

I agree with OTK on this one. Thought he put it very clearly and fairly too.
There is a lot of jerking-off done by some mods on other mods' comments - dirty talk often, too many insults, too much impatience with 'stupid' members, etc.
I do (at this stage!) know that they aren't being paid.
But that's no excuse to turn things into a boys' club.
Who wants to visit a community which decent people - decent women, moreover - will find immature and egotistical.

Zaph

tak wrote:

But that's no excuse to turn things into a boys' club.

Don't tell everyone, but there are some female mods too. Shocking, isn't it?

Silverfish

tak wrote:

I agree with OTK on this one. Thought he put it very clearly and fairly too.
There is a lot of jerking-off done by some mods on other mods' comments - dirty talk often, too many insults, too much impatience with 'stupid' members, etc.
I do (at this stage!) know that they aren't being paid.
But that's no excuse to turn things into a boys' club.
Who wants to visit a community which decent people - decent women, moreover - will find immature and egotistical.

Dirty talk? Please provide links to back up your claims. Did you report these posts?

Insults? Please provide links to back up your claims. Did you report these posts?

Who wants to visit a community which decent people - decent women, moreover - will find immature and egotistical.

I would love to hear how you arrived at this conclusion.

BuffyBot

what is a "personality based moderator" when it's at home?

aidan_walsh

BuffyBot wrote:

what is a "personality based moderator" when it's at home?

People with strong personalities, I presume. I think the OP would rather than all mods be bland, boring people. Or machines.

Oryx

tak wrote:

Who wants to visit a community which decent people - decent women, moreover - will find immature and egotistical.

*decent woman puts hand up*

and dont you dare tell me im and indecent woman.

Fysh

tak wrote:

Who wants to visit a community which decent people - decent women, moreover - will find immature and egotistical.

I don't know, but I suspect that "decent people" in your personal lexicon means "people who will make assumptions and try to ignore it when other people repeatedly point out they're wrong".

In which case, if this forum is unappealing to other such people, AWESOME. It means less time will have to be spent repeatedly explaining apparently simple concepts to people apparently hell-bent on misunderstanding them.

Oh, and for what it's worth - female mods FTW! boards.ie ain't no boys club. Oh look, it turns out you got it wrong again. Good to see that you're enjoying your hobby of jumping to incorrect conclusions about this place...

Blowfish

tak wrote:

I agree with OTK on this one. Thought he put it very clearly and fairly too.
There is a lot of jerking-off done by some mods on other mods' comments - dirty talk often, too many insults, too much impatience with 'stupid' members, etc.
I do (at this stage!) know that they aren't being paid.
But that's no excuse to turn things into a boys' club.
Who wants to visit a community which decent people - decent women, moreover - will find immature and egotistical.

And what about all of the female mods? Are they part of the "boys club" too?

[edit]bah! Fysh got there first.

Karoma

tak:
for once, in all your time here, back up your drivel with some evidence. How about you put up or shut up?

tak

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055128630&page=8

That sort of thing okay by you, Karoma ?

Stark

To think children could have read about what Regi did with that butter.

Fysh

@Tak:

It's a matter of context. If someone reads through that thread, for example, they'll see that you've repeatedly tried to cast mods and admins in a bad light (mods in the sense of "they get paid by us but act as though they're beholden to nobody!", admins in the sense of your repeated attempts to claim that regi & co are living it up at the expense of boards.ie subscribers) and several people at length tried to explain where you were wrong. At no point did you actually post anything like "Oh, right, I get it now, sorry if my earlier posts sounded a bit off, I didn't understand the setup". No, you basically asked for the thread to be closed because your attempt to besmirch boards had failed and you were getting the piss ripped out of you.

Let me compare this to a man who, upon going for a walk in the wilderness, happens upon a dozing bear. The bear does not appear interested in attacking him, being as it's half-asleep and has a full belly, but the man, driven on by some inexplicable primal urge, repeatedly pokes the bear in the eye with a sharp stick. After a short while, the bear decides that enough is enough, and promptly attempts to disembowel the man. The man barely escapes with his life, and complains to forest rangers about the dangerous bear nearby who attacked him. The rangers, upon hearing the full story, break their arses laughing and then give the man a swift clip around the ear.

Short version : if you post complete rubbish, fail to acknowledge when you've been wrong, and persist in acting like an idiot with a grudge, you'll get treated like one.

gandalf

Jaysus is it because of the bad weather that all these whingy threads have appeared recently. If the tags are changed I am sure that something else would be found to be wrong.

At the end of the day if the admins feel it needs to be changed then they will change it. It is their right they pay for the upkeep of the site with time and money.

cast_iron

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Not that it's a huge problem, but I think this would certainly help matters.

aidan_walsh

I can understand how removing the moderator information might help to give the impression that mods are mods only in their own forums, but as bonkey points out there is still the problem that known mods, or people percieved to be mods could still be looked upon as differently as they are now with or without the badge. I'm not convinced that it would change much in the eyes of long standing posters.

OTK

aidan_walsh wrote:

People with strong personalities, I presume. I think the OP would rather than all mods be bland, boring people. Or machines.

I find the mods have a very heavy presence on this site. I guess I was thinking of usenet 'personalities' as in Cronan Thompson's musical parody:

I am the very model of a usenet personality,
Thanks largely to my knowledge of internet scatology,
I've had insights both logical and factual
On matters esoteric, idiotic and nonsensical;
I'm relatively knowledgable on subjects philosophical,
(I understand the subtext in relationships sapphostical)
While well aquanited with matters transcendental
I am the only man who is truly plain and simple.

CHORUS:
He is the only man who is truly plain and simple.
He is the only man who is truly plain and simple.
He is the only man who is truly plain and simple.

I'm very well aquainted too with stories of technology,
I've rebutted the preposterous and shown some immaturity,
In short, thanks largely to my knowledge of internet scatology,
I am the very model of a usenet personality.

CHORUS:
In short, thanks largely to his knowledge of internet scatology,
He is the very model of a usenet personality.

I know our mythoclastic history, alt dot slack's and kibology;
I've seen the posts that defy the annotation of abnormal psychology,
I articulate in doublespeak interpretations of the hoi polloi
And decry them with flamboyant, if rhetorical, hyperbole;

I can tell undoubted imbeciles from Eddorian Infinities,
I malign the croaking chorus from ignorant trekkies;
Then I can construct arguments of frightening logical duplicity
Yet I remain the only master of true plain simplicity

CHORUS:
Yet he remains the only master of true plain simplic-ity
Yet he remains the only master of true plain simplic-ity
Yet he remains the only master of true plain simplic-ity

Then I can write a detailed post on the exploits of Gideon,
While telling you the details of the arc on project Babylon:
In short, thanks largely to my knowledge of internet scatology,
I am the very model of a usenet personality.

CHORUS:
In short, thanks largely to my knowledge of internet scatology,
I am the very model of a usenet personality.

nesf

So you'd prefer normies to geeks as mods?

Zaph

It always amuses me how relatively new users always seem to complain that the site is heavily moderated while it's not an issue for more established members. Is it because older members are less likely to indulge in muppetry and therefore have nothing to fear? Personally I think the level of moderation here is fine, not particularly heavy handed, unless you're a muppet who deserves to be hammered, and the mods are generally quite helpful.

DeepBlue

Fysh wrote:

What is it with low post-count lurkers starting threads lately about mods being evil incarnate? I mean, seriously.

The weird thing is that the OP's 300 odd posts put him in the top 5% of posters.
It doesn't nesessarily make his points any more valid but it does makes it difficult to dismiss him as a "low post-count lurker" as he has contributed more to the boards.ie community than 95% of the members .

440Hz

Blowfish wrote:

And what about all of the female mods? Are they part of the "boys club" too?

lol!! Well I just give myself a "gender ambigious" name as someone called it during the week, so I can be in the "club". I'd hate to feel left out hehe

Boston

I've 10,000 posts, arn't i big and clever. I fundamentally disagree with Daveirl's suggestion on the grounds that we should never pander to the stupid.

Karl Hungus

Boston wrote:

I fundamentally disagree with Daveirl's suggestion on the grounds that we should never pander to the stupid.

Wow. I vigourously agree with you, Boston.

The Sweeper

tak wrote:

Who wants to visit a community which decent people - decent women, moreover - will find immature and egotistical.

Hi - welcome to the internet.

Boston

Minesajackdaniels wrote:

Hi - welcome to the internet.

It burns, its burns... And it stole my innocences

Peter Collins

Karl Hungus wrote:

we get enough flak from some 'fight the power' users

Ah good oul Karl Mungus....'fight the power' users

That's how he sees anyone who criticises moderators....!

Boards future is safe.......:rolleyes: