How long can they wait before bringing you to court?

Anan1

I've just received a final warning in the post for a parking offence that took place on the 25th March, 2006. I had been under the impression that they had to charge one within a specified timeframe, ie 6 months, 1 year, etc. Does anyone know whether this is true? If so, what is the time period? Thanks.

oleras

Anan1 wrote:

I've just received a final warning in the post for a parking offence that took place on the 25th March, 2006. I had been under the impression that they had to charge one within a specified timeframe, ie 6 months, 1 year, etc. Does anyone know whether this is true? If so, what is the time period? Thanks.

Why not just pay it, you did commit the offence after all, its your civic duty.......

seamus

For certain offences, the complaint must be made within six months of the offence being committed.

In this case, the fine was issued and you've received numerous warnings. The next step is to make a complaint about non-payment of a fine.

Enright

is it really worth the hassle? Just pay the fine, you know you want to!!

Now if you were getting points on your licence, then it might be owrth it, but for a fine, its not worth the grief and the time.

Anan1

Enright wrote:

is it really worth the hassle? Just pay the fine, you know you want to!!

Now if you were getting points on your licence, then it might be owrth it, but for a fine, its not worth the grief and the time.

With the greatest of respect, that's not what I asked.:)

Our man in Havana

Anan1, speaking as a former TW you have nothing to worry about as the complaint must be laid within 6 months of the alleged offence. Can you PM me the name of the LA involved or is this a Garda action?

I suspect this is a fishing trip to see if anyone will pay up on some very old tickets that a civil servant found.

sicruise

Bond-007 wrote:

Anan1, speaking as a former TW you have nothing to worry about as the complaint must be laid within 6 months of the alleged offence. Can you PM me the name of the LA involved or is this a Garda action?

I suspect this is a fishing trip to see if anyone will pay up on some very old tickets that a civil servant found.

GLOSSARY
I'm assuming...

TW = Traffic Warden
LA = Local Authority

Our man in Havana

Correct.

unkel

Bond-007 wrote:

speaking as a former TW you have nothing to worry about as the complaint must be laid within 6 months of the alleged offence

Does that apply to all parking tickets? To speeding tickets and / or any other tickets too?

Any link would be great

maidhc

unkel wrote:

Does that apply to all parking tickets? To speeding tickets and / or any other tickets too?

Any link would be great

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/criminal-law/criminal-trial/time_limitations

Same applies to Road traffic.

How long before your case gets heard is a different matter. I know of one person who has just been disqualified from driving and is greatly inconvenienced because he can no longer bring his kids to school. They weren't even born when he got caught drink driving!!!! :eek:

For parking tickets:
Since early this year (IIRC) the local authority are precluded from making a settlement 56 days after the date of the notification. That means you get to go to court if you don't pay on time. Completely insane and a waste of money and time, but that is the way it is. The judges appear to be very lenient though and you will generally only be fined a standard parking fine amount. You loose a days holiday though.

Our man in Havana

I would still love to know which local authority is trying to extort money from the OP.

unkel

From your link, maidhc:

If the Gardai wish to charge you for a minor offence, they must make a "complaint" (in the District Court) within 6 months after the date the offence was committed

When a Garda makes a complaint in the District Court, a summons will be served on you requiring you to go to court

Say I got caught speeding on Jan 1st. The complaint must be made before July 1st. Can there be a time difference between the complaint and the summons*?

*Is this a registered letter addressed to you that you have to sign for receiving it?

Related: Say I receive a fixed fine in the post for speeding on Jan 1st and I decide not to pay it. I get several reminders but I don't get a summons until after July 1st, can I ignore it?

Our man in Havana

No, the compalint could have been laid on the 30th of June for a court date in December. The summons has to be served on you at least 21 days before the court so you could get a summons in November.

unkel

Bond-007 wrote:

No, the compalint could have been laid on the 30th of June for a court date in December. The summons has to be served on you at least 21 days before the court so you could get a summons in November.

Is there a time limit between the complaint and the court date?

maidhc

unkel wrote:

Is there a time limit between the complaint and the court date?

I would understand a complaint here to mean a "Summons". The summons will have a date on it which is generally within a few months. On that date the judge will either hear the case or fix another date for doing so.

Anan1

Thanks to all for your replies so far. The letter is from a firm of solicitors, Partners at Law, on behalf of Dún Laoghaire Rathdown Co. Council, giving me 'one last opportunity to discharge the sum of €43.20 (ie the current parking fine plus expenses of €24.20 incurred by DLRCC)' The offence is stated to have taken place on 25/03/2006.

There have therefore been no court proceedings to date. Am I correct in understanding that it is now too late for them to bring court proceedings against me?

Our man in Havana

unkel wrote:

Is there a time limit between the complaint and the court date?

No time limit but if there is excessive delay a case can be dismissed.

Our man in Havana

Anan1 wrote:

Thanks to all for your replies so far. The letter is from a firm of solicitors, Partners at Law, on behalf of Dún Laoghaire Rathdown Co. Council, giving me 'one last opportunity to discharge the sum of €43.20 (ie the current parking fine plus expenses of €24.20 incurred by DLRCC)' The offence is stated to have taken place on 25/03/2006.

There have therefore been no court proceedings to date. Am I correct in understanding that it is now too late for them to bring court proceedings against me?

Yes. No court action can happen as they are now too late to lay a complaint. This is a clear case of demanding money with menaces.

Anan1

Bond-007 wrote:

Yes. No court action can happen as they are now too late to lay a complaint. This is a clear case of demanding money with menaces.

I take it you are 100% sure of this? If so, good news! One more question, my g/f just sent a cheque in yesterday for a bunch of these - €350 or so worth - all for offences in 2005/2006. Could she legitimately cancel the cheque?

Our man in Havana

Yes I am 100% sure.

I don't know what the hell DLR CC are up to here. I dunno about cancelling the cheque but they have no business chasing parking tickets from 2005 at this stage.

unkel

maidhc wrote:

I would understand a complaint here to mean a "Summons". The summons will have a date on it which is generally within a few months. On that date the judge will either hear the case or fix another date for doing so.

So you say both complaint (from a Garda to a district court) and summons (to again use terminology from the link - is this summons a registered letter?) must be within 6 months?

Bond-007 wrote:

No time limit but if there is excessive delay a case can be dismissed.

You saw this question coming: what is excessive delay?

Thanks for all the replies so far, guys. I intend to include this as part of the sticky once we have established exactly what the story is. So do your worst! I've always wondered about this myself too

Anan1

Bond-007 wrote:

Yes I am 100% sure.

I don't know what the hell DLR CC are up to here. I dunno about cancelling the cheque but they have no business chasing parking tickets from 2005 at this stage.

Well thanks for your help so far! I wonder what if any repercussions there would be if she cancelled the cheque. She'd go nuts if she did so on my advice and they came after her.

Vikings

unkel wrote:

So you say both complaint (from a Garda to a district court) and summons (to again use terminology from the link - is this summons a registered letter?) must be within 6 months?

Don't think that is right.

Once the complaint has been made from the Garda within 6 months then that is all that is required.

The summons can be a registered letter or can be hand delivered by a member of the Gardai as well, judging from this thread the summons must be received 21 days before the court date.

So if you are caught speeding on Jan. 1st the Garda can lodge the complaint any time before July 1st but you do not have to receive the summons within that time.

Our man in Havana

unkel wrote:

So you say both complaint (from a Garda to a district court) and summons (to again use terminology from the link - is this summons a registered letter?) must be within 6 months?

Summons can be either by registered letter or in person from a Garda. The only thing required within 6 months is the complaint to the court. The summons can come anytime after the complaint is laid.

You saw this question coming: what is excessive delay?

Excessive delay was set at 2 years by a judge in the district courtsd a few years ago. It really depends on the case tbh.

maidhc

Bond-007 wrote:

Yes I am 100% sure.

hummm....

I wouldn't be 100% at all.

maybe they have gone to court in your absence (possible), or alternatively that the parking conviction relates to a "private" car park owned by them, in which case they would be entitled to use a debt collection agency.

Unkel:
Yes. The summons is generally a registered letter. The garda makes a complaint, shows the clerk proof you are aware he is making a complaint (registered slip) and the clerk lists the action for hearing.

Our man in Havana

Mustangs wrote:

Don't think that is right.

Once the complaint has been made from the Garda within 6 months then that is all that is required.

The summons can be a registered letter or can be hand delivered by a member of the Gardai as well, judging from this thread the summons must be received 21 days before the court date.

So if you are caught speeding on Jan. 1st the Garda can lodge the complaint any time before July 1st but you do not have to receive the summons within that time.

100% correct there.

maidhc

Bond-007 wrote:

Excessive delay was set at 2 years by a judge in the district courtsd a few years ago. It really depends on the case tbh.

And in Cork some judges do NOT accept any argument on excessive delay! Even 5/6/7 years.

Darragh29

Anan1 wrote:

Thanks to all for your replies so far. The letter is from a firm of solicitors, Partners at Law, on behalf of Dún Laoghaire Rathdown Co. Council, giving me 'one last opportunity to discharge the sum of €43.20 (ie the current parking fine plus expenses of €24.20 incurred by DLRCC)' The offence is stated to have taken place on 25/03/2006.

There have therefore been no court proceedings to date. Am I correct in understanding that it is now too late for them to bring court proceedings against me?

If I was in your position I'd write the solicitors firm a very solemn letter apologising for the delay on your part for not paying the fine, not to mention the extra expenses that their clients have now incurred, but that you didn't think you had to pay the fine as they had allowed 6 months to elapse before moving to summons you for the offence and then I'd attach payment in full using monopoly money along with the letter!

unkel

So we are going somewhere:

The summons is either a registered letter you sign for or a letter personally delivered by a Garda (that you do not sign for). I guess the courts will take her/his word for it that said Garda has indeed personally delivered the letter?

Then again we are going nowhere:

Bond-007 wrote:

Excessive delay was set at 2 years by a judge in the district courtsd a few years ago

maidhc wrote:

And in Cork some judges do NOT accept any argument on excessive delay! Even 5/6/7 years.

So, what is it? 0.5 years since offence? 2.5 years since offence? Or 7.5 years since offence?

Our man in Havana

Simple answer, excessive delay is at the judges discretion. Common sense should prevail.

unkel

Bond-007 wrote:

Simple answer, excessive delay is at the judges discretion. Common sense should prevail.

I don't like that simple answer. Excessive delay should be defined in law. It should not to be left to the almighty rulers discretion :rolleyes:

maidhc

unkel wrote:

The summons is either a registered letter you sign for or a letter personally delivered by a Garda (that you do not sign for). I guess the courts will take her/his word for it that said Garda has indeed personally delivered the letter?

Yes. And a "complaint" is what the Garda makes in order to get a summons.

The courts accept a "statutory declaration of service", which is just that.

Service of summons need not be made by a garda until 7 clear days before trial... I had to look that up...(Courts Act 1991, s22) normally they don't cut it that fine though and you get the summons by post around the date of the complaint.

Anan1

Thanks again to everyone who contributed to this thread - you've all been a great help.:)

unkel

maidhc wrote:

a "complaint" is what the Garda makes in order to get a summons.

The courts accept a "statutory declaration of service", which is just that.

Service of summons need not be made by a garda until 7 clear days before trial...

So, to summarise, I could commit a simple parking offence on 01/01/2008. A garda could call on my door on 01/01/2015 with a summons to appear in court on 08/01/2015?

Madness, surely?

NB I'm not having a go at any poster here. Thanks a lot for all your help. Just trying to establish what the legalities are...

Marcus.Aurelius

Pay the damn fine, it's only €70. Excessive delay is indeed set at the Judge's discretion, so pay the damn fine and stop worrying about it.

Marcus.Aurelius

unkel wrote:

So, to summarise, I could commit a simple parking offence on 01/01/2008. A garda could call on my door on 01/01/2015 with a summons to appear in court on 08/01/2015?

Madness, surely?

NB I'm not having a go at any poster here. Thanks a lot for all your help. Just trying to establish what the legalities are...

Would seem to be the case, but any reasonable judge would dismiss the case.

Anan1

maoleary wrote:

Pay the damn fine, it's only €70. Excessive delay is indeed set at the Judge's discretion, so pay the damn fine and stop worrying about it.

Have you taken the time to actually read this thread?

maidhc

unkel wrote:

So, to summarise, I could commit a simple parking offence on 01/01/2008. A garda could call on my door on 01/01/2015 with a summons to appear in court on 08/01/2015?

No, because when he makes a "complaint" (witin the 6mths) the district court will give him court date in the next available slot.

Our man in Havana

maidhc wrote:

No, because when he makes a "complaint" (witin the 6mths) the district court will give him court date in the next available slot.

Sometimes the next slot might be 6-12 months away. That is certainly the case in the Dublin courts.

unkel

So we are now talking 6 months for the complaint + a maximum of 12 months for the next slot = 18 months

What is the story with the 5/6/7 years you mentioned, maidhc?

Another one: can a court session be cancelled? If so, what happens?

maidhc

unkel wrote:

What is the story with the 5/6/7 years you mentioned, maidhc?

Another one: can a court session be cancelled? If so, what happens?

Adjournments. The particular case I refer to was adjourned about 7 times for various reaons (garda not being able to attend and a case of interest being before the High Court being the main reasons).

When a case is adjourned (cancelled) it is given a new date.

Jo King

Bond-007 wrote:

Sometimes the next slot might be 6-12 months away. That is certainly the case in the Dublin courts.

The next available slot will be within a few weeks around Dublin. If the accused does not plead guilty, and wants a hearing date, it may be put back a number of months for hearing.

Our man in Havana

Yee do things differently in the city so. Down here we call those cases up for mention. But generally for small matters the trial happens the same day.