M50 Barrier Free Tolling and Foreign Registered Cars

hopalong_ie

Hi,

Working for a large multinational several of my colleauges who have been here (in Ireland) for several years never mind and more recent ones from the new EU countries are still driving there cars from there home countries such as Germany, i.e. they never registered them here.

How will the barrier free tolling on the M50 work since it is supposed to be based on a camera taking a picture of your reg is it doesn't pick up a rfid card in your car and then you being posted a bill. Seems a bit unfare that removing the M50 toll bridge will basically mean you end up paying if your Irish or drive and irish reg car but if your from outside the state and havn't bothered or to cute to do so then you will escape the fee.

Any ideas..

Del2005

Accidently get some mud on your plate(s), depending on camera type used:D

Victor

I don't see it as a huge problem. The tourists won't represent a huge number and the residents will have to deal with the occasional garda on anti-toll evasion duty on off ramps.

I don't knwo, but there may still be an option to pay like you do now, but on side lanes only.

Del2005 wrote:

Accidently get some mud on your plate(s), depending on camera type used:D

Remind me what the fine is for having an obscured reg plate?

markpb

Victor wrote:

I don't knwo, but there may still be an option to pay like you do now, but on side lanes only.

I heard a rumour that there would be at least one cash lane in each direction for exactly this situation. It's hard to see how they could do otherwise, it would criminalise everyone without an Irish plate, tourist or otherwise.

hopalong_ie

That will never work :rolleyes: , i can see my German / Polish colleauges thinking yes i should stop and go pay or i can continue freeflow and they can't trace my car as it's not registered in the state . I know i would keep going. Of course i wonder if they will non payment will be passed into Pulse as a parking ticket is. But again if it is a small percentage will be caught only by the guards actually pulling them since they have no registered address for the car in the state.

I wonder if they will give revenue access to the Database, i can see it now. How long is your car in the country ? 6 Weeks . Really because you have used the M50 everyday for the last seven months !!

From reading the spec the idea is that if they do not pickup a RFID they will capture your plate using a camera on a gantry, they will then compare it to the registration db and post you the bill with give you the option of paying online or by phone, also People who have tags will finally get a discount on the price. No more Easypass costing the same but paying an administration fee for the pleasure.

Victor

hopalong_ie wrote:

That will never work :rolleyes: , i can see my German / Polish colleauges thinking yes i should stop and go pay or i can continue freeflow and they can't trace my car as it's not registered in the state .

The Germans will insist on paying.

There is a certain beauty in this system. If someone is a repeat offender, they can be actively targeted for enforcement at their usual exit / entry point. They can even have the system prime the Garda saying "Blue BMW model X, Registration YYY999 approaching in 3 minutes".

Dub13

How will this work for bikes...?

Victor

Dub13 wrote:

How will this work for bikes...?

Camera looks at rear plate and/or you have a RFID.

Head The Wall

The cops have access to the insurance system also. Listening to the scanner the cops can find out the owner and address of foreign Reg cars if they're insured in this country so it won't be too hard to catch them

ardmacha

There is an EU protocol to allow fines be sent to the registered address of the car and enforced by the courts in that country. A tourist that passes by once or twice in a year isn't really a huge loss of revenue, but more regular offenders could be followed up. Of course some of these people are actually living in Ireland and not where the car is registered, I suggest the revenue should take an interest in these cases.

Perhaps if the message was given that revenue would not have access to the database of people who paid, but would for those who didn't pay, then VRT dodgers would have an incentive to pay.

eringobragh

Victor wrote: »

Camera looks at rear plate and/or you have a RFID.

No bikes will be exempt.

murphaph

Dub13 wrote: »

How will this work for bikes...?

As said, bikes go free from Autumn, yay!

They should always have been free like the East Link and most if not all toll structures in GB.

DameLotus

hopalong_ie wrote: »

Hi,

Working for a large multinational several of my colleauges who have been here (in Ireland) for several years never mind and more recent ones from the new EU countries are still driving there cars from there home countries such as Germany, i.e. they never registered them here.

How will the barrier free tolling on the M50 work since it is supposed to be based on a camera taking a picture of your reg is it doesn't pick up a rfid card in your car and then you being posted a bill. Seems a bit unfare that removing the M50 toll bridge will basically mean you end up paying if your Irish or drive and irish reg car but if your from outside the state and havn't bothered or to cute to do so then you will escape the fee.

Any ideas..

I understand that the NRA can follow up in the UK and make sure UK nationals pay the M50 toll. To enforce this, it is said in the article (link below) they will be employing debt collecting agencies. I assume that's only applying UK reg cars belonging to owners residing in the UK.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/aug/31/transport

It would be interesting how the NRA would enforce this for UK (and other non-Irish) registered vehicles where the owners are resident in Ireland. Presumably at some point they will have to tax and insure their cars here and hence go on the NRA files.

ardmacha

It would be interesting how the NRA would enforce this for UK (and other non-Irish) registered vehicles where the owners are resident in Ireland.

they'll send the list of these to the customs!

They also said they would be looking for serial offenders using a private detective agency. If you come along each day at 08:35 going to work, and you weren't paying your bit, they'd just follow you. An odd transit wouldn't be noticed.

lisnsooz

this is from http://www.eflow.ie FAQ

How do you manage foreign vehicles?
Foreign-registered vehicles using the M50 are subject to the same rules as Irish-registered vehicles.

For all motorists using the M50, whether registered or unregistered, national or foreign, the non-payment of tolls is an offence under the legislation. The National Roads Authority has therefore established a rigorous enforcement policy implemented through a trans-European enforcement agency to assist in the recovery of unpaid toll charges and fines and the prosecution of all toll evaders of Irish or foreign registered vehicles.

The onus is also on foreign motorists arriving in any country to be aware of bye-laws and rules of the road. Information is also available through motoring organisations, car hire companies and tourist bodies here and abroad.

LOL - love the 'trans-European enforcement agency' cloak and dagger bit - sounds a bit scary if you're thinking about avoiding paying...:eek: heehee

gabigeist

hopalong_ie wrote: »

Hi,

Seems a bit unfare that removing the M50 toll bridge will basically mean you end up paying if your Irish or drive and irish reg car but if your from outside the state and havn't bothered or to cute to do so then you will escape the fee.

Any ideas..

If I was had a foreign reg car, I would not be paying. Even if I was foreign driving an Irish registered car, I would not be paying. I have seen it in action in several countries abroad and foreign non-payers will simply be ignored as 1) Its too costly to police. 2) By making a fuss, the situation will become widely known and compliant foreigners will stop bothering to pay

gabigeist

gabigeist wrote: »

If I was had a foreign reg car, I would not be paying. Even if I was foreign driving an Irish registered car, I would not be paying. I have seen it in action in several countries abroad and foreign non-payers will simply be ignored as 1) Its too costly to police. 2) By making a fuss, the situation will become widely known and compliant foreigners will stop bothering to pay

The problem is, they'll make the toll evader foot the bill for the time it takes to find them, take them to court etc.

A €3 toll could very soon explode into a €400 or bigger "fine" as the costs will be recovered.

serfboard

Deleted User wrote: »

The problem is, they'll make the toll evader foot the bill for the time it takes to find them, take them to court etc.

A €3 toll could very soon explode into a €400 or bigger "fine" as the costs will be recovered.

Yes, but I think the point other posters are making is, will they bother? (despite what they say).

A colleague and I were working in Italy some time back. You were supposed to collect a ticket at the entrance to the motorway, and present it at the paypoint. Only problem was, he drove through the eazypass equivalent, and had no ticket to present at the other end. They told him he had 3 months to pay the amount. He didn't and he hasn't since. That was 10 years ago, and they're unlikely to still be looking for him ...

serfboard

serfboard wrote: »

Yes, but I think the point other posters are making is, will they bother? (despite what they say).

Only time will tell!

ardmacha

That was 10 years ago, and they're unlikely to still be looking for him ...

someone going through the odd time won't have a problem, so tourists will be fine, but if doing it regularly (commuters) it will likely attract attention.

dodgyme

ardmacha wrote: »

someone going through the odd time won't have a problem, so tourists will be fine, but if doing it regularly (commuters) it will likely attract attention.

very much doubt it

HarryD

It seems there's no inter toll system communication here between Hungary & Austria.
I know of lotsa people who have never paid in the others country and there hasn't been any problems so far.
My friend has bought a car in NI, and has been using the M50 periodically recently,
without paying.. He hasn't yet registered the car in ROI.
Will be interesting to see what happens when he does.

Manic Moran

So if I, as an American resident, were to rent an Irish reg car at Dublin Airport, what would happen?

NTM

Dub13

Manic Moran wrote: »

So if I, as an American resident, were to rent an Irish reg car at Dublin Airport, what would happen?

NTM

I think they would have your credit card info and if any fines come in after you give the car back they just charge your card.

jlang

The rental car case would affect Irish people driving rental cars too. I don't know what the policy is, but I'm sure there must be one.

inforfun

jlang wrote: »

The rental car case would affect Irish people driving rental cars too. I don't know what the policy is, but I'm sure there must be one.

I rented a car recently and was told to pay on line if i used the toll bridge.
Since i wasnt goign that direction i was not too interested to find out what happens when i didnt pay but i remember something about them paying it, include an administration fee and get it from you credit card.

GerardKeating

Manic Moran wrote: »

So if I, as an American resident, were to rent an Irish reg car at Dublin Airport, what would happen?

NTM

All rental agreement include a waiver to allow the rental company to debit your card for any fines or tolls you incure while renting the card.

So they just debit you the M50 toll, same for parking or speeding fines.

Geogregor

GerardKeating wrote: »

All rental agreement include a waiver to allow the rental company to debit your card for any fines or tolls you incure while renting the card.

So they just debit you the M50 toll, same for parking or speeding fines.

So, if I rent a car and want to drive M50 what should I do? There won't be any tollboths to pay. Do I have to somehow register to the scheme? Even if I drive M50 just once?

G_R

Geogregor wrote: »

So, if I rent a car and want to drive M50 what should I do? There won't be any tollboths to pay. Do I have to somehow register to the scheme? Even if I drive M50 just once?

no you dont have to register anything. When you use the M50 just go into a payzone outlet (look for the pink sign), give them your reg and tell them how many times you have passed through and then you pay them the €3/trip

and no there is no toll booths, just 2 overhead gantries with cameras and a couple of signs at the side reminding you that you have till 8pm tomorrow to pay the toll.

Geogregor

dannym08 wrote: »

no you dont have to register anything. When you use the M50 just go into a payzone outlet (look for the pink sign), give them your reg and tell them how many times you have passed through and then you pay them the €3/trip

and no there is no toll booths, just 2 overhead gantries with cameras and a couple of signs at the side reminding you that you have till 8pm tomorrow to pay the toll.

What is the payzone outlet? Does toll apply 24h?

slimjimmc

They're all over the country, almost as common as Lottery agents. You can locate them at http://www.payzone.ie
Same toll no matter when, however you pay per crossing.