Immigration - have we overlooked the Island next door in the debate?

darkman2

Hi,


400,000 British expats now live in the Republic according to an article I read in the newspaper last week. This makes them the largest 'ethnic' group in Ireland by far. It often amuses me how people here go on about Africans and Eastern Europeans and all the rest swamping the country but is the real invasion from the UK?? Think about it - Tescos/M&S everywhere, British clothes shops, British restaurants, British food, British television, British high streets..............Some other things of note:


The Brits seem to have taken a liking to the west of the country - obviously Dublin is just to British for them!


Donegal and Cork most popular not only with expats but for holiday homes too.

It is an intriguing fact that alot of British people dont even realise they are leaving the UK to go to Ireland, a different country, before they actually get information on it according to a British expat website.

So the largest minority group unsupprisingly are the British and they are continuing to come over in droves. I wonder why this is rarely mentioned? The whole debate seems to center around Eastern Europe and Africa yet the biggest influx is from Britain and they have changed our society far more in recent years then any Africans or Eastern Europeans. Buying up our country basically. Though thats not a bad thing but we seem to be a choosy people about who we pick to criticise for coming here.:rolleyes:

aidan_walsh

Obviously they just don't stand out as much in a crowd...

Saruman

Yes but you do not notice the British as our culture is more or less the same and our history is intertwined. They speak english almost as good as we do etc and they know their rights and will demand proper payment.

Where as Poles etc do not speak english well at all, know nothing of their rights and will work for whatever money is offered, usually minimum wage (sometimes not even!).

Same goes for Americans. There are a LOT of them here too. Not as many as English or Polish but there is quite a few and no one bats an eyelid.

smackbunnybaby

i mean like, what have the british ever done for us?

joe_chicken

You've also got to take into account the people who went to England to work when young and have returned since...

I'm sure they are a large proportion of those 400,000

Zebra3

darkman2 wrote:

Hi,


400,000 British expats now live in the Republic according to an article I read in the newspaper last week. This makes them the largest 'ethnic' group in Ireland by far. It often amuses me how people here go on about Africans and Eastern Europeans and all the rest swamping the country but is the real invasion from the UK?? Think about it - Tescos/M&S everywhere, British clothes shops, British restaurants, British food, British television, British high streets..............Some other things of note:


The Brits seem to have taken a liking to the west of the country - obviously Dublin is just to British for them!


Donegal and Cork most popular not only with expats but for holiday homes too.

It is an intriguing fact that alot of British people dont even realise they are leaving the UK to go to Ireland, a different country, before they actually get information on it according to a British expat website.

So the largest minority group unsupprisingly are the British and they are continuing to come over in droves. I wonder why this is rarely mentioned? The whole debate seems to center around Eastern Europe and Africa yet the biggest influx is from Britain and they have changed our society far more in recent years then any Africans or Eastern Europeans. Buying up our country basically. Though thats not a bad thing but we seem to be a choosy people about who we pick to criticise for coming here.:rolleyes:

Not sure how they count the figures, but would a lot of them "Brits" be Irish or partly Irish? My mates girlfriend is English, but her mother is Irish. Her mother still lives in England ,but she's here 10+ years and is gonna stay for good. What catergory does she fit in to?

A lot of English people I've worked with (especially those with young kids) confide in me after a while that they left England cos it's being overrun with "**** and Pakis"-their words, not mine! They see Ireland as some sort of white haven.

AlmightyCushion

Thet're white and speak English plus quiet a few of them may have been here for years (I know quiet a few) and so may have lost their English accent so you'd hardly know some of them were English until they told you, plus we seem to relate more with the English because of large amount of English channels we get and English companies here. Even still I didn't think there was as many as half a million Brits here.

bill_ashmount

Zebra3 wrote:

A lot of English people I've worked with (especially those with young kids) confide in me after a while that they left England cos it's being overrun with "**** and Pakis"-their words, not mine! They see Ireland as some sort of white haven.

This is a common trend in many western countries but it's rarely discussed. It's called "White Flight".

darkman2

AlmightyCushion wrote:

Even still I didn't think there was as many as half a million Brits here.

That is interesting. Maybe they stick to themselves more or something. Certainly is a supprising figure. There is definatley a misconception that if English people open their mouths in a pub here for example that they are singled out for treatment due to the whole history thing. Thats amongst themselves but the reality as many of them will tell you living here is that they really do like it here and get on very well with people and they fiind the place very friendly. Id have expected to hear far more British accents though considering its half a million all most.

connundrum

aidan_walsh wrote:

Obviously they just don't stand out as much in a crowd...

They problably shop in the same Irish shops as we do... M&S, Tesco, Burtons, Miss Selfridge, Topman, Topshop. How cunning

Ishmael

Obviously there is less bitching about the English / British people coming into Ireland.

The bitching usually originates from differences (or the ignorance of the differences) between people of different nations and Ireland and Britain are very similar in most aspects of life.

Cake Fiend

I'd say it's down to the ease of integration into Irish society. Plus the fact that there is no negative image attached to Brits (bar that upheld by the celtic jersey-wearing unwashed). Nigerians get a bad rep world-wide, people are often unfond of Poles due to the sheer numbers and fact that they don't always integrate as well as other nationalties, and Roma gypsies have bad press that runs the gamut from nuisance begging to bare-faced theft.

You don't normally hear talk about people who don't rock the boat. When's the last time you heard anyone complaining about the Chinese? There are tons of them here, but they don't cause any problems, so there's noone complaining. Same with the Brits/Americans/Canadians/Aussies/Kiwis. Not to mention the huge hypocrite factor of the Irish complaining about British immigrants.

Saruman wrote:

They speak english almost as good as we do

Jaysus, I hope that was an intentional joke...

Kintarō Hattori

Saruman wrote:

Yes but you do not notice the British as our culture is more or less the same and our history is intertwined. They speak english almost as good as we do etc and they know their rights and will demand proper payment.

Where as Poles etc do not speak english well at all, know nothing of their rights and will work for whatever money is offered, usually minimum wage (sometimes not even!).
Same goes for Americans. There are a LOT of them here too. Not as many as English or Polish but there is quite a few and no one bats an eyelid.

Righttthhh.....

humbert

Saruman wrote:

Same goes for Americans. There are a LOT of them here too. Not as many as English or Polish but there is quite a few and no one bats an eyelid.

Well I for one think it's high time Americans where forced to learn English.

Mossy Monk

humbert wrote:

Well I for one think it's high time Americans where forced to learn English.

Heh. I think it's high time you did too.

Terry

Aren't Irish people the lasgest ethnic minority over there?

Seems fair to me.

meglome

The British come here legally; they generally work and earn an honest living. They haven't always been particularly nice to the Irish but that was then and this is now. I can't see the problem.

Kintarō Hattori

Terry wrote:

Aren't Irish people the lasgest ethnic minority over there?

Seems fair to me.

Good point Terry.

Steyr

smackbunnybaby wrote:

i mean like, what have the british ever done for us?

Am more or less everything....

MooseJam

Terry wrote:

Aren't Irish people the lasgest ethnic minority over there?

Seems fair to me.

No, we aren't a minority, we are the majority
edit lol just saw you said there not here

CantGetNoSleep

I've never been approached by an english person sticking a rose in my face trying to get me to buy it while im on a night out, or had money stolen from me in the street by a british person

maybe things like these are reasons why we dont give out about them

MooseJam

Can't say I've any problem with the Brits, they are very welcome

WindSock

There isn't a language barrier to deal with. Plus when we were colonised, we got engulfed in their culture, so they aren't really seen as being 'different' from us.

Fratton Fred

anybody want to buy a rose/copy of the Big Issue/lucky heather? you'll find me lurking by the nearest ATM waiting to steal your cash:D

I think the big difference with us Brits, is that the Irish are used to hearing our accents, from television etc or because so many Irish people spent a big chunk of their lives living/working/studying in Britain so we don't stand out as much, besides, we all sound the same pissed!! I've only ever got grief when I have been wearing my England jersey and that is by Liverpool fans complaining that its got Rooney on the back:D

I love it here, I'm even practicing my Irish.

Ah ya areet bud....talk to ya

Supercell

Tbh if the Brits adopted the euro there would be bugger all difference between living here or in Engerland bar the fact that that the political parties haven't sold their souls to the builders.

Fratton Fred

Longfield wrote:

Tbh if the Brits adopted the euro there would be bugger all difference between living here or in Engerland bar the fact that that the political parties haven't sold their souls to the builders.

not their souls, just knighthoods

mountainyman

CantGetNoSleep wrote:

I've never been approached by an english person sticking a rose in my face trying to get me to buy it while im on a night out, or had money stolen from me in the street by a british person

maybe things like these are reasons why we dont give out about them

I was accosted by a man with a Liverpool accent who told me a long story about needing to get the boat home to see his dying granny.
An hour later he was at it again.

I was shoute at by a bunch of jugglers with English accents who became annoyed when I said 'I don't give money to f cking jugglers'

Oh it happens. Go to west cork no assimilation there, they blow in and they blow out.

MM

mike65

400,000 British expats now live in the Republic according to an article I read in the newspaper last week.

That was'nt the Evening Herald was it? Its about as accurate as they get I guess. clicky linky

Mike.

Zebra3

Fratton Fred wrote:

not their souls, just knighthoods

kelle

smackbunnybaby wrote:

i mean like, what have the british ever done for us?

Only for Britain I wouldn't have the qualifications I have, and my good job. I could not get a place on that particular course in Ireland. My tuition expenses were all paid for by the British government, and I only had to fork out £9 per week for accommodation (mind you, that was 1989-1993).
It annoys me to hear anybody slag off the British...

Tha Gopher

Mossy Monk wrote:

Heh. I think it's high time you did too.

pld

tbh most are people of Irish descent. Which is thankful, imagine if a large percentage of our populaion down the generations turned out to have English surnames :eek:

thelordofcheese

kelle wrote:

Only for Britain I wouldn't have the qualifications I have, and my good job. I could not get a place on that particular course in Ireland. My tuition expenses were all paid for by the British government, and I only had to fork out £9 per week for accommodation (mind you, that was 1989-1993).
It annoys me to hear anybody slag off the British...

I'm sure he was referencing the "what have the romans ever done for us" scene from Monty Pythons life of brian.

purple'n'gold

Let nobody forget, it’s only a mere 85 years since we were part of the United Kingdom. And not everyone in this part of Ireland was happy to see us leave it. And I don’t only mean the Anglo Irish.

Mr.Nice Guy

boreds wrote:

There isn't a language barrier to deal with. Plus when we were colonised, we got engulfed in their culture, so they aren't really seen as being 'different' from us.

If we'd been "engulfed" in their culture then we wouldn't have desired to separate from them.

I don't mind the British though. They're not likely to be the ones who'll beg on the streets or try to rob you. Scousers being the exception of course (joke).

purple'n'gold

boreds wrote:

There isn't a language barrier to deal with. Plus when we were colonised, we got engulfed in their culture, so they aren't really seen as being 'different' from us.

We were not colonised, we were conquered by the English, just like Scotland and Wales. And we became part of the United Kingdom in 1801. England being the dominant country in these islands that was the natural order of things.

Terry

thelordofcheese wrote:

I'm sure he was referencing the "what have the romans ever done for us" scene from Monty Pythons life of brian.

Yeah, I think a couple of people missed that one.

Zebra3

purplengold wrote:

England being the dominant country in these islands that was the natural order of things.

If you see genocide, and cultural rape and pillage as natural... :rolleyes:

Would that be how you'd describe Germany's behaviour from 1933-1945?

purple'n'gold

Zebra3 wrote:

If you see genocide, and cultural rape and pillage as natural... :rolleyes:

Would that be how you'd describe Germany's behaviour from 1933-1945?

What I see doesn’t really matter, but if you have a group of islands, the dominant tribe will prevail. That’s the way it works, and that’s why the English conquered the Irish, Scots and Welsh.

Terry

Zebra3 wrote:

If you see genocide, and cultural rape and pillage as natural... :rolleyes:

Would that be how you'd describe Germany's behaviour from 1933-1945?

Shh!
You can't say anything wrong about the British.
The apologists will get you.

fly_agaric

Zebra3 wrote:

If you see genocide, and cultural rape and pillage as natural... :rolleyes:

These things can be called "natural" in the sense of not being abnormal/unusual rather than "right" or "good" or "moral" can't they?

mike65

Jasus here we go applying 2007 values to events centuries earlier. Tis the road to philosophical ruin I tell ya.

Mike.

Steyr

It infuriates me when people slag the Brits we have a shared history, if it wasmt for them we would have alot of what we have now, they are our biggest trading partner in Europe, those who insist on digging up the past should hang their heads in shame, The British are very very welcome here indeed, god knows if a terrorist incident took place in Irish skys we couldnt do FA about it we would have to call on them, same goes for countless Irish people on the islands, when we didnt have Helicopter SAR the Brits would do it.

An Citeog

Zebra3 wrote:

If you see genocide, and cultural rape and pillage as natural... :rolleyes:

Would that be how you'd describe Germany's behaviour from 1933-1945?

Germany between 1933 & 1945, whatever do you mean?

Clicky

2 stroke

Steyr wrote:

we have a shared history

We have an imposed english history, we have a rich history and culture of our own that the english tried to wipe out. Our country was raped and plundered as were our people.
Yet we are a forgiving bunch, but don't try to change history.
What happened happened and if Irelands resources hadn't been plundered for centuries we would not be reliant on the english for anything now.

Terry

2 stroke wrote:

What happened happened and if Irelands resources hadn't been plundered for centuries we would not be AS reliant on the english for anything now.

Fixed that for ya.

We would not be entirely self reliant.

gurramok

As said, the figure is really 250,000 from the cso stats page.

Some are of Irish descent(including some of my relatives), how many of that 250,000 are of Irish descent we do not know unless we ask them!

Some have inter-married with Irish people(i know 2 personally) plus they integrate unlike other types that have been mentioned.

EDIT: Instead of looking at place of birth, take a look at nationality.
http://www.cso.ie/statistics/nationalityagegroup.htm
112,000 classified as British nationality, about half the total born in UK living here, rest have Irish nationality, now that tells ya something

Fratton Fred

2 stroke wrote:

We have an imposed english history, we have a rich history and culture of our own that the english tried to wipe out. Our country was raped and plundered as were our people.
Yet we are a forgiving bunch, but don't try to change history.
What happened happened and if Irelands resources hadn't been plundered for centuries we would not be reliant on the english for anything now.

damn those English for stealing Irelands oil and coal reserves and leaving nothing behind except roads, hospitals, schools and universities.:rolleyes:

Terry

Fratton Fred wrote:

damn those English for stealing Irelands oil and coal reserves and leaving nothing behind except roads, hospitals, schools and universities.:rolleyes:

This one always makes me laugh.

Is it too hard to believe that these things would have been built without the British presence here?
I'm sure that whatever town you live in has some ruin dating back several hundreds of years, before any british invasion.

But of course, the Irish in those days were too thick to build anyhing for themselves. God only knows how it came to be that we even reproduced.

2 stroke

We would not be entirely self reliant.

Terry I don't agree. england would not be so powerful today if they hadn't plundered the world. Ireland was not only the Island of saints and scholars we also had a fine tradition of metalwork and jewelry making. Had we been left alone we could have had our own industrial revolution. Ok we might have needed to plunder some iron and coal but who knows.

damn those English for stealing Irelands oil and coal reserves and leaving nothing behind except roads, hospitals, schools and universities

Fred I thinkyou need to read some irish history.We had roads before the english and irish labour built many of the roads and railways in england
The english didn't build schools and universities for the irish they built them for their own. What you call hospitals were mostly workhouses which the irish were driven into after their land was taken. The number of new people that could be taken in by a workhouse each day was limited by the number of people that had died inside the night before.

Terry

2 stroke wrote:

Terry I don't agree.

Fair enough, but I'm always right. Just as long as we have that straight.

england would not be so powerful today if they hadn't plundered the world.

True, but we wouldn't have had the potato for many more years.

Ireland was not only the Island of saints and scholars we also had a fine tradition of metalwork and jewelry making.

Jewellery making does not a good economy make.
We were sorted agriculturally and trade would have brought new ideas, but copies of the Tara brooch just wouldn't have sustained us.

Had we been left alone we could have had our own industrial revolution. Ok we might have needed to plunder some iron and coal but who knows.

Now you see here is where you really go wrong (in my eyes).
We may have had an industrial revolution, had we traded with britain.
As for the plundering of iron and coal, wouldn't that have made us as bad as the peple we are decrying?

Fratton Fred

Terry wrote:

This one always makes me laugh.

Is it too hard to believe that these things would have been built without the British presence here?
I'm sure that whatever town you live in has some ruin dating back several hundreds of years, before any british invasion.

Of course not, these things would have been built and Ireland would have prospered, more or less than it did is anyones guess. My point was more around the fact that people only talk about the "Raping" and "Plundering".

It's a two way thing, many Irish people did (and still do) very nicely out of the English yet that is conveniently forgotten.