Sean Sherk...gets one year ban for drugs test

crazy monkey

Hi all,

That title bar should say...Sean Sherk...gets one year ban for failing drugs test


First Royce Gracie now Sean Sherk,

According to MMA WEEKLY, Sherk will start a year long ban for nandrolone abuse.

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=4359&zoneid=2


I saw his UFC All Access program, I thought he was a hard worker and his diet was extreme...

He's pretty much ruined his career [legacy?...he was expected to dominate the 155 division for a long time and he looked like he could after the Hermes Franca fight] but now...who knows...

;(

BJ vs Gomi for the vacant LW title?! I had edited the thread I made earlier sorry.


I have no respect for Sherk (or any juicers) now. I really hate that stuff. Bas Rutten once said "If u use steroids to fight then you're a pussy).


It does raise another issue though, MMA is incredibly demandin as any of us who train know, i mean i find it hard to get up in the mornins sometimes after an eveings Thai and rolling, imagine that as your full time lifestyle. And these guys never stop. U can understand the temptation.

crazy monkey

from sherdog [ yeah i know what you're thinking]

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=8333

Colm_OReilly

It's not good for MMA when a new and controversial sport gets so many positive tests so close together.

Now I'm not saying that other sports are cleaner, I'm not saying they're not - but it adds weight to anti-MMA arguments unfortunately.

I said it to Shane and Bill watching the UFC that he looks like a roid head.

For the record if I were to be tested I'd test positive, I use the kenalog steroid shot for hayfever. Actually, I mightn't be able to compete Sunday

Colm
-Just realised

Nothingcompares

i'm shocked and disappointed.

Magic Eight Ball

Was a big fan of Sherk!

Clive

Colm_OReilly wrote:

For the record if I were to be tested I'd test positive, I use the kenalog steroid shot for hayfever. Actually, I mightn't be able to compete Sunday

You can apply to FILA (probably via the Sports Council) for a Therapeutic Use Exemption.

Guys, give Sherk a chance - remember that Marquardt tested positive not so long ago, but his B-sample was clear.

David Jones

Guys, give Sherk a chance - remember that Marquardt tested positive not so long ago, but his B-sample was clear.

I cant believe anyone is actually surprised!! ****ty tasting bread and eating raw vegetables do not get you into that kind of shape still making the 155lb division. He looked like a roid head. Look at Baroni another bodybuilder type physique tests positive. Its not possible to look that muscular and that ripped without taking something. There will be plenty more bans to come in the future its part and parcel of competitive sport where if you arent winning you arent getting the $.

Fozzy

Clive wrote:

Guys, give Sherk a chance - remember that Marquardt tested positive not so long ago, but his B-sample was clear.

Both guys' B-samples tested positive: http://www.nbcsports.com/ufc/1798504/detail.html

Roper

This sucks, but once again I'm not surprised.

Dragan

I think there is a lot to be said for false positives in cases like this.

Recent studies have shown piss testing to be HIGHLY erratic when it comes to Nandralone. High protein diets, creatine, and HIIT in combination ( basically Sherk to a T and MMA fighters in general ) can all play hell with tests.

Sherk was only twice the limit coming in at 12ng/ml , Royce came in at 50ng/ml.

I would be very suprised if Sherk did not pass his appeal, to be honest.

I think this also goes some way to explain WHY some fighters are getting caught for Nandrolone of all things.

David Jones

I would be very suprised if Sherk did not pass his appeal, to be honest.

I hope you are right. I liked Sherk's attitude to training from what I saw in the All access programme. I however just dont think you can maintain that amount of training and keep that physique and strength all while being able to make 155lb. You look at genuine 155lbers like Hansen, Gomi, Kawajiri, etc they are strong for their size and are athletic looking but dont come anywhere near sherks bodybuilder appearance.

johnathan woss

Dragan wrote:

I think there is a lot to be said for false positives in cases like this.

Recent studies have shown piss testing to be HIGHLY erratic when it comes to Nandralone. High protein diets, creatine, and HIIT in combination ( basically Sherk to a T and MMA fighters in general ) can all play hell with tests.

Sherk was only twice the limit coming in at 12ng/ml ,

That's true Dragan but the allowed levels are very high, in order to give fighters the benefit of the doubt.
To have twice the allowed level is significant.

FiannaGym.com

David Jones wrote:

Its not possible to look that muscular and that ripped without taking something.

Eh, Dave... Have you not seen me?

Hahaha.

Yeah, I cant beleive how many people are using, that said, I am not suprised when it turns out guys like Sherk, Baroni, etc are full to the gills.

Such a shame. I've said it before....

ROIDS WILL NOT FILL YOU WITH PEACE AND LOVE!

Peace

The ignorance defence, especially in this case, is nonsense. Most supplements are not approved by bodies like the FDA. The supposed ingredients and results of taking them have not been independently verified. Sherk apparently was taking 22 supplements before the fight. Even if he didn't know what he was taking, he acted riskily and certainly did not take all due care to prevent taking something illegal. I think an approved supplement list like the NFL, should be published by the various athletic commissions. It won't solve the problem, but it will at least remove the igornance defence. At least Hermes Franca, who also tested positive, admitted to his mistake.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote:

At least Hermes Franca, who also tested positive, admitted to his mistake.

I gained some respect for him for manning up and saying this. He had an injury and was concerned that he wouldnt get his title shot at all if he pulled out. However he still did it, but I have a lot more respect for the ones that admit than for the likes of Royce who even with obnoxiously high levels in his body claims ignorance.

Pride Fighter

I am disappointed in the muscles shark. The sport needs to stop this NOW otherwise it will join cycling and baseball as a sporting laughing stock. Life bans, a forcing to return your fight purse and random testing should be the order of the day. On another note it looked like he was going to dominate that division enough to warrant a ufc hall of fame spot a few years down the line. Should not ever get one now. That could be an additional punishment for him. The cheater deserves it.

Colm_OReilly

I think the best thing for the UFC to do publicity wise is enforce a one strike policy on drug abuses - it would help a long way in legitimising the sport

fatal

Colm_OReilly wrote:

I think the best thing for the UFC to do publicity wise is enforce a one strike policy on drug abuses - it would help a long way in legitimising the sport

I agree.Because it is a sport that has only started to boom recently the UFC and other MMA federations should take a stance from the very start and not let the problem get out of hand by turning a blind eye on it from the get go

fatal

fatal wrote:

I agree.Because it is a sport that has only started to boom recently the UFC and other MMA federations should take a stance from the very start and not let the problem get out of hand by turning a blind eye on it from the get go

The problem lies in the fact that Dana White has different rules for different fighters. Tim Sylvia came back to a title shot. Diego Sanchez negative test was brushed under the rug, while Nick Diaz was lynched for the exact same thing (I realise Diaz was in PRIDE at the time).


Its not only roids but cocaine etc also. They need to stamp it out with a zero tolerence policy.


Problem is Dana doesnt want other orgs makin money off of guys he invested money in (Sanchez, Sherk etc)

cavedave

I think the best thing for the UFC to do publicity wise is enforce a one strike policy on drug abuses - it would help a long way in legitimising the sport

Its not only roids but cocaine etc also. They need to stamp it out with a zero tolerence policy.

Is it really the view of UFC fans that an athlete should be stopped from earning a living for the rest of their life for taking a non performance enhancing illegal drug? (I presume cocaine is not a performance enhancing drug, unless the performance involves being an egomaniac gob****e)

filament

a few points to make:

firstly: ""I offer only an explanation and not an excuse," Franca said. "I made a decision during a difficult time in my training for the fight that I regret."

Saying an injured ankle prompted him to look for ways to "accelerate the healing process" Franca said he made the "shortsighted" choice to use a banned substance. "Under the pressure of literally not being able to pay next months bills I made a choice," he told MMAweekly. "I had to fight and did whatever I could to do so."

^very sad, alot of people ****e on about sportsmanship but tend to forget the real world aspect of things too, these guys get paid to win which means there livelyhoods depend on it, it's not an excuse but think twice before branding them nothing but a cheater, if you had a starving wife and kids to feed would you take the risk? i know i would and it wouldn't matter if i got caught either, some things are more important.

secondly, non performance enhancing drugs.... WHO GIVES A ****!?
from what i understand they show up in the test's and they have to declare it as they've found illegal substances, fine, slap em on the wrist and move on i fail to see the issue, it's between the authorities and the athelete and not the organisation

thirdly: tim silvia served his "time" and cmae back to later reclaim the title, he admitted his mistake at the time, didn't bitch, waited and came back a better fighter in the end anyways, western society is basd on the reform principal so i don't believe in life bans, especially considering my first point

lastly: yeah this is becomming a joke. silvia, bonner, royce, sherk, franca, any one else? it's getting old fast and something quick needs to be done but life bans is not the way forward

cavedave

cavedave wrote:

Is it really the view of UFC fans that an athlete should be stopped from earning a living for the rest of their life for taking a non performance enhancing illegal drug? (I presume cocaine is not a performance enhancing drug, unless the performance involves being an egomaniac gob****e)

Not particualrly. But there has to be a bigger disincentive than the ones which already are there because this is in danger of turning MMA into a circus which the media will be all over.

U have to ask what in the hell a fighter is doin taking cocaine in the first place dont ya? Plus cocaine can be taken before training to increase the heart rate and help u push yourself harder hence boosting your cardio. I know its unlikely and Ricco and Melvin Guillard weremore than likely suin it for recreational party purposed but that doesn mean it cant be done.

What would u suggest for possible reforms?

cavedave

What would u suggest for possible reforms?

I do not think people should be very harshly punished for taking illegal non performance enhancing drugs.

The policing against normal street drugs does not really work right? It is pretty easy to get cocaine and such if you want it.
The biggest sports doping scandals were not from testing regimes but from police investigations. Cyclings Festina affair, Balco steroids thing in baseball and athletics. The Italian winter olympics police raids etc.
So if police investigation cannot stop people getting street drugs.
And police investigations are by far the most effective way to stop sporting drugs.
Testing must be really ineffective at stopping sports drug use.

cavedave

cavedave wrote:

I do not think people should be very harshly punished for taking illegal non performance enhancing drugs.

The policing against normal street drugs does not really work right? It is pretty easy to get cocaine and such if you want it.
The biggest sports doping scandals were not from testing regimes but from police investigations. Cyclings Festina affair, Balco steroids thing in baseball and athletics. The Italian winter olympics police raids etc.
So if police investigation cannot stop people getting street drugs.
And police investigations are by far the most effective way to stop sporting drugs.
Testing must be really ineffective at stopping sports drug use.

Okay, theyre good points and all valid but at a time when MMA is constantly under fire with the "human cock fighting" tag from unimaginative boxing pundits and the like, the last thing it needs is a doping scandal especially during its initial ise to the mainstream hence we;re back where we were, what would u do if u were Dana White?

dunkamania

The UFC's lack of action,makes their viewpoint clear.
Fighters on banned substances,can continue preparing for a fight despite serious injuries.This is clearly in UFC's favour,as amending a main card fight after it has been announced is a costly business.The UFC are unlikely to introduce punishments that will discourage substance abuse until they are forced too by fan/media pressure.:(

Dragan

dunkamania wrote:

The UFC's lack of action,makes their viewpoint clear.
Fighters on banned substances,can continue preparing for a fight despite serious injuries.

As far as I am aware fighters walk into the Cage hurt all the time. Liddel had a torn MCL vs Tito, Tito had a torn ACL against Griffin, Shamrock had a torn ACL against Tito, Sylvia had back problems when Couture beat him….it goes on and on and on.

If a fighter wants to fight hurt then they can…..I'm missing the whole point of Franca's decision. Take something to help heal you to make your fight KNOWING you will get a year long ban and then use MONEY as the excuse? He can't earn for a year now, so his plan kind of backfired.

cavedave

what would u do if u were Dana White?

If I ran the ufc I would.
1. Allow covert drug use so as this speeds up recovery from injury. So I could get big names fighting more often
2. Have random tests to make the sport look clean. But not so random or so testing as to get big stars caught
3. I would catch the occasional small fry so I could point to them and say “look we are combating the problem”
4. I would have some health related tests (like haemocrit level) to keep the drug use under some “healthy” level. This would be as people dying or murdering their spouses is bad publicity.

I actually hope I would not do this, and I am not implying the current runners of UFC, the NFL, soccer etc do this. But it would seem to be the best business course wouldn't it? What would you do?

filament

Dragan wrote:

As far as I am aware fighters walk into the Cage hurt all the time. Liddel had a torn MCL vs Tito, Tito had a torn ACL against Griffin, Shamrock had a torn ACL against Tito, Sylvia had back problems when Couture beat him….it goes on and on and on.

If a fighter wants to fight hurt then they can…..I'm missing the whole point of Franca's decision. Take something to help heal you to make your fight KNOWING you will get a year long ban and then use MONEY as the excuse? He can't earn for a year now, so his plan kind of backfired.

that's the risk when committing a crime though isn't it? if he'd won and gotten away with it he'd be light weight champion and his money problems over

Fozzy

cavedave wrote:

If I ran the ufc I would.
1. Allow covert drug use so as this speeds up recovery from injury. So I could get big names fighting more often
2. Have random tests to make the sport look clean. But not so random or so testing as to get big stars caught
3. I would catch the occasional small fry so I could point to them and say “look we are combating the problem”
4. I would have some health related tests (like haemocrit level) to keep the drug use under some “healthy” level. This would be as people dying or murdering their spouses is bad publicity.

I actually hope I would not do this, and I am not implying the current runners of UFC, the NFL, soccer etc do this. But it would seem to be the best business course wouldn't it? What would you do?

That is pretty much what WWE have been doing for the last few years, and they're in the middle of a ****storm over steroid and drug use now. They're losing viewers because of it, and therefore money. I think it would be an extremely bad idea for the UFC to do anything similar to that

The solution obviously isn't easy, but I think it should lie more in the athletic commission's hands than the MMA organisations. There's a good article here that I would tend to mostly agree with

I don't think drugs or steroids should be tolerated to any degree in MMA. If they were, it would basically encourage and reward drug use, as anyone looking to become an MMA fighter would be at a disadvantage if they didn't use drugs. Drug use is a personal choice, and there is no reason to punish someone who doesn't take drugs

Dragan

filament wrote:

that's the risk when committing a crime though isn't it? if he'd won and gotten away with it he'd be light weight champion and his money problems over

He was never getting away with it though. All the SAC's will test guys in title fights and then choose randomly from the rest of the card.

He knew this.

filament

Dragan wrote:

He was never getting away with it though. All the SAC's will test guys in title fights and then choose randomly from the rest of the card.

He knew this.

read the article in fozzy's post, most peopl find them easy enough to dodge

cavedave

There's a good article here that I would tend to mostly agree with

That is a very interesting article. I had not considered that MMA stars can easily move to a different organisation. This makes the situation even harder to police then athletics, NFL and baseball which do not all seem squeeky clean.

This article http://www.slate.com/id/2067149/ points out that the ideal of randomised drug tests exists in NFL and it

the dragnet has averaged fewer than two collars per season

and

In the last season before testing began in 1987, the New York Giants won the Super Bowl without a single player who weighed as much as 300 pounds.... Compare those teams to the New England Patriots squad that won this year's Super Bowl—which boasted 15 300-pounders.

If this kind of testing is the best that UFC can hope for it does not sound like that alone will keep it clean.

Dragan

Not to take issue with that last quote but 20 years ago sports nutrition, legal supplementation and even excercise and condition science were quite obviously decades behind where they are now.

They are not even on the same page and to assume that those 15 players are the product of juice is quite frankly stupid. Not a fan of that article to be honest.

cavedave

Not to take issue with that last quote but 20 years ago sports nutrition, legal supplementation and even excercise and condition science were quite obviously decades behind where they are now.

This is true it is hard to tell apart improvements in training and improvements in drug use.
However if you google around it is not hard to find evidence of drug use in the NFL. If tests were started because people were using steroids and afterwards people did not get smaller/slower (as happened briefly in athletics when a clampdown was instigated around the same time) you do get suspicious. The only evidence I have seen of how much recent sporting improvement is down to training versus drugs is here. This is a very different sport, but still if less then half of the improvements are down to training it does make you think.
“From 1964 to 1988 the relative strength of the world record holders in those weight classes increased by 21% …The same analysis in other types of sports, where there had been some changes in training methods over the same period of time, revealed that the maximum improvement was only 9% “

I do not mean to be a misery guts but when you combine how ineffective the police are with illegal drugs, how ineffective other sports have proven to be in removing illegal drugs, and how easy it is for mma fighters to move between different organisations it does not paint a hopeful picture does it?

Nothingcompares

I'm just wondering.

Who are the people that carry out the tests and issue the bans and fines? The athletic commissions in the various states or the UFC themselves or is it a combination. Have the UFC said they're "against steroids" and if they have, are they just saying this to appease the athletic commission?

What about fighters? What is the reaction of let's say BJ penn to hear that Sherk and Franca tested positive? Is he happy to see cheats banned or does he accept it's a necessary part of the game?

Yes, right now, steroid use is cheating, but the real question is, should it be? If in actual fact steroid use for high performance professional athletes did more good than harm, I'd be in favour of a rule change (that's my feeling right now this minute). I mean, these guys get the **** kicked out of them in training, and they tear their bodies to sheds doing cardio and weights, if steroids helps them to this or makes it easier...what's the big deal?

filament

Nothingcompares wrote:

I'm just wondering.

Who are the people that carry out the tests and issue the bans and fines? The athletic commissions in the various states or the UFC themselves or is it a combination. Have the UFC said they're "against steroids" and if they have, are they just saying this to appease the athletic commission?

What about fighters? What is the reaction of let's say BJ penn to hear that Sherk and Franca tested positive? Is he happy to see cheats banned or does he accept it's a necessary part of the game?

Yes, right now, steroid use is cheating, but the real question is, should it be? If in actual fact steroid use for high performance professional athletes did more good than harm, I'd be in favour of a rule change (that's my feeling right now this minute). I mean, these guys get the **** kicked out of them in training, and they tear their bodies to sheds doing cardio and weights, if steroids helps them to this or makes it easier...what's the big deal?

a few andwers and points:

the state sporting authorities do the testing, very few sporting franchises police their own talent.

"Our policy on fighters using steroids, illegal drugs or any banned substance remains the same - you cannot use them,” said UFC President Dana White. “It's not only unhealthy and unsafe, it is against the law. The UFC fully supports the commission's efforts and we will continue to take measures that keep this sport clean and keep the athletes safe."
http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=news.detail&gid=6848&pid=144

There's a thread currently running on BJ Penn's reaction.

Steroids are banned not because they boost performance. Whey protein and creatine also boost performance as well as several other legal suppliments. Annabolic substances are banned because of the high health risks involved with them, it would not be fair to legalise them as it would force fighters to make a choice between their long term health and their current ability.

For proof of steroids negative health impact, google wwe deaths in the last 10 years, there's alot and I do mean alot of guys dying at a pretty young age, not to mention the recent tradgedy with Benoit which may well be steroid related

Dragan

filament wrote:

Steroids are banned not because they boost performance. Whey protein and creatine also boost performance as well as several other legal suppliments. Annabolic substances are banned because of the high health risks involved with them, it would not be fair to legalise them as it would force fighters to make a choice between their long term health and their current ability.

For proof of steroids negative health impact, google wwe deaths in the last 10 years, there's alot and I do mean alot of guys dying at a pretty young age, not to mention the recent tradgedy with Benoit which may well be steroid related

I must saw that I have more issues with this post than National Geographic. Might as well start at the start. Of course steroids are banned because they boost performance. The majority of steroids are simply medicines. People seem to be forget these points. At the end of the day, if everyone was allowed to inject Test Suspension for proper cycles, take the correct PCT, and did all this under the watchful eye of a trained medical practitioner then we would all be living very long, healthy and happy lives…..with more muscle mass and less bodyfat into our old age.

I hate to break it to the folks who really wish that steroids were as bad as the media makes out but the simple fact is they are not. Wellness centers all across the USA are prescribing things like test and GH to people and it is only improving the quality of there lives when administered under the right circumstances.

The problem with steroids is that the majority of users don't have a ****ing clue what they are doing, how to stack, cycle, what the correct Post Cycle Therapies are , the difference between oral and injectable steroids….the list goes on of **** ups that people can make. Then we have quality. The very fact they are illlegal means you have lots of dodgy people looking to make money, throwing out piss poor batches and contaminated steroids.

Finally, I find it almost laughable that you would point at the WWE as being the fine example of how steroids kill people. The stories that have come out of there recently idicate to me that steroids are the least of their worries as many past stars are confessing to abusing all kinds of street drugs, painkillers, medications and steroids. And yet what we all jump on is the steroids.

Can I simply point out that in Japan, where steroids are both legal and utilised, and also being a country that has a strong and popular wrestling culture, how come all their guys are not dropping dead at a certain age due to steroid abuse?

Finally, the problem with steroids in MMA is a simple one. It's against the rules so if you use them you are a cheater. If you cheat you deserve your suspension plain and simple.

FiannaGym.com

My problem with roids it this.

It is a bad roll model for kids. Every kid can train safely like BJ Penn at the age of 10, but they obviously cant start doing roids.

I am aware of the safety issues of roids and the whole smear campaign thang, but outside of that its not cool. Neither is wearing a knuckle duster or greasing your limbs.

Peace

Dragan

FiannaGym.com wrote:

Neither is wearing a knuckle duster or greasing your limbs.

Peace

Oh I completely agree, funnily enough the whole limb greasing this was one of the biggest stories at the start of the year till everyone started getting busted for roids!

The simple fact is that steroids need to be illegal in a sporting environment. Sure, there are other aspects to the game that can be unfair such as budget, supplements, training camps, location etc but steroids at the end of the day do have a major effect on the body be it muscular size, recovery, cardiovascular endurance etc.

The simple fact is that it should never need to get to the point where people feel they need to inject a medicine without the required medicinal reason just to get ahead. They need to agressively test, fine and suspend or even strip titles, wins etc of those who are caught.

Fozzy

There's a very interesting interview with one of the top guys involved with the testing for the Nevada State Athletic Commission here: http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=4414

He clears up the misconception about Nathan Marquardt's clean second sample, basically saying it was clean because he cycled off the steroids a few days too late

Khannie

Sorry for the off topic but...

FiannaGym.com wrote:

greasing your limbs

What's the craic with this? I'm sure I've seen thai fighters grease the s**te out of themselves before fights. Surely once you start sweating, it's all very "lubricated" anyway.