100NL: floats into a set

sikes

Right so i said i would try and post 2 hands a day and tbh its just not happening cos I have very little interesting hands or what I deem to be interesting. I think I might have got too stupid on the turn.

Villian is a good aggro, we tend to stay out of each others way for this session and i havent played with him before. He has been isolating limpers a lot pre flop, I mean a huge amount. Sometimes I have 3bet him, i think 2 times up to this point, taking it down both times, but rarely do i call. In this hand I take it in position and float the flop with the intention of taking it away on the turn, if it gets heads up.

Hand converter is broken atm for some reason.

100NL 180$ effective stacks.

Im on the button with 55. there are two limpers to the villain who makes it 6. I CC on the button everyone else folds, i was kind of surpirsied as they have been calling lightly and that would have been a good result for me too.

Flop(15.5) AsJs2. He leads for 12 and I CC.
Turn(39.5) 5s. Villain leads for 34.

Hero does what? theres about 130 behind. I have CC the flop a few times this session against other players and then bet the turn when checked too, in both cases I wasnt floating. Hes a good player so there are a tonne of hands played like this.

Ace2007

why did you call the flop??? i know u said u were "floating on the flop" but this was not the best flop in the world to be doin it...

anyway - u've now hit ur set and there's 3 spades on the board, i would just flat call on the turn and, if the board doesn't put another spade on the river, i would call a bet on the river as well..

by the way does CC = check call?? or what?

cardshark202

I would fold here. I struggle to see what he can have here that you beat, apart from maybe 22 but thats unlikely obv. Have you seen him barrel much?

cardshark202

CC = cold call

sikes

CC - cold call. i called the flop becuase I am floating him and will take the pot away on the turn. I know he is very aggro and does this with a wide range.

I would think he does double barrell a good bit but i have no evidence of it from what i have seen.

Ace2007

sikes wrote:

CC - cold call. i called the flop becuase I am floating him and will take the pot away on the turn. I know he is very aggro and does this with a wide range.

if thats the case i would flat call the turn and then if he bets the river just call.

Moneymaker

Why were you even in the hand that far?

Well, you've made a set but its a scare card at the same time. I'd just call the turn and river, unless you make the boat.

sikes

lets not get hung up on preflop and flop, its fine i think for the reasons mentioned.

cardshark202

Ok if he really is that aggro and will fire multiple barrels then calling the turn is fine.

Mr.Plough

i call turn, vb river if checked to and fold to a shove?

Ace2007

Mr.Plough wrote:

i call turn, vb river if checked to and fold to a shove?

whats vb mean or is it a typo and u mean cb?

Ace2007

wow - is this the first post where nearly everyone is agreeing with me - if i sort out my pre flop play i might actually get good lol

phantom_lord

Ace2007 wrote:

whats vb mean or is it a typo and u mean cb?

value bet. how the **** could he cb...

phantom_lord

are u folding if he leads a blank river strongly?

Ace2007

depending on the river card, would u not cb???

i'm slowing building up my TLA

sikes

if i call the turn, i never have the nuts, i think this is a big problem.

sikes

phantom_lord wrote:

are u folding if he leads a blank river strongly?

should i?

Mr.Plough

phantom_lord wrote:

are u folding if he leads a blank river strongly?

edit the more i thin about it the more unsure i am

Ace2007

sikes wrote:

if i call the turn, i never have the nuts, i think this is a big problem.

could hit the last remaining 5 in the deck!!! unlikely but u never know...

sikes

Ace2007 wrote:

could hit the last remaining 5 in the deck!!! unlikely but u never know...

No, its not like that. I mean I never have the nut flush in this spot, i never play the K high flush like this. This brings in a load of problems when i get to the river against a good observant oppenent.

phantom_lord

sikes wrote:

should i?

you'll only have about a psb left after u call the turn, so if he shoves i think you have to fold. i doubt he shoves worse or is capable of a bluff shove even after u just call the turn.

Ace2007 wrote:

could hit the last remaining 5 in the deck!!! unlikely but u never know...

jesus, would u think before u post.

sikes

I called the turn and the river bricked out and he stuck the rest in and I folded. I thought calling the turn was a mistake as i dont know if he takes that line enough with AxKs,AJ as well as double barrelling other worse hands and then checking the river, with him knowing that I dont have a very strong hand. I think if i was playing better opposition, if i get to this spot, i should definately fold becuase I dont think i could continue profitably, im still undecided in this instance.

Obviosuly i can suck out on the river and get paid against a good flush, but its a lot less likely he has the nut flush as the A is out there, so once the board pairs he might not pay me off very much.

I think i have gotten into a really bad habbit of getting into check/call mode too often, in the hope that he will slow down and i will see a cheap showdown and once i move up against better opposition im going to get crucified when i take such a transparent line.

NeoSlicerZ

I would've raised the turn and folded to a shove then ...

Hectorjelly

I think I might be missing something, I don't see how you can fold this. Given the history where you took it away from it every time he checks he could well have a medium strength hand which he never felt comfortable checking.

sikes

Hectorjelly wrote:

I think I might be missing something, I don't see how you can fold this. Given the history where you took it away from it every time he checks he could well have a medium strength hand which he never felt comfortable checking.

that wasnt against him, i just checked through the hands that i had played in the session and i had CC two flop bets from other players, i really not think this would have played too much into the thinking of the hand.

ocallagh

i think i go broke here.

mrflash

all around crazy play, how could you call after that flop and if you call the flop you hit the trips, you have to go for it, behind or not. what on earth are you at, spending too much time analysing me thinks. how can you put him on a flush, ffs, if you get beat then so be it, but you cannot lay down trips in this position. unless im missing something, and there is four spades on the board.

Mr.Plough

mrflash wrote:

all around crazy play, how could you call after that flop

he intended to float.

BigCityBanker

ocallagh wrote:

i think i go broke here.

I know I go broke here

Gholimoli

sikes wrote:

I called the turn and the river bricked out and he stuck the rest in and I folded. I thought calling the turn was a mistake as i dont know if he takes that line enough with AxKs,AJ as well as double barrelling other worse hands and then checking the river, with him knowing that I dont have a very strong hand. I think if i was playing better opposition, if i get to this spot, i should definately fold becuase I dont think i could continue profitably, im still undecided in this instance.

Obviosuly i can suck out on the river and get paid against a good flush, but its a lot less likely he has the nut flush as the A is out there, so once the board pairs he might not pay me off very much.

I think i have gotten into a really bad habbit of getting into check/call mode too often, in the hope that he will slow down and i will see a cheap showdown and once i move up against better opposition im going to get crucified when i take such a transparent line.

this is pure madness.
how can you sugges a fold here on the turn saying you cant continue profitably.

ofcourse you can .
to fold here IMO is madness.
im calling this turn and will happily get my chips in on a none spade river if i have 2.
to say you will not get paid if the board pairs is really madness.
no body is going to fold a flush on that river just cuz the bord pairs you will get paid almost 100%.
who do you think you are playing against Ivery,Durrrrr,Sbrugby etc.

did i say i go broke here?

Hectorjelly

I definitely go broke here

sikes

mrflash wrote:

all around crazy play, how could you call after that flop and if you call the flop you hit the trips, you have to go for it, behind or not. what on earth are you at, spending too much time analysing me thinks. how can you put him on a flush, ffs, if you get beat then so be it, but you cannot lay down trips in this position. unless im missing something, and there is four spades on the board.

it was a float, my hand didnt matter much until it became somewhat strong and then face a really strong bet from villain. There are three spades on the board, the draw came in on the turn.

RoundTower

cardshark202 wrote:

I would fold here. I struggle to see what he can have here that you beat, apart from maybe 22 but thats unlikely obv. Have you seen him barrel much?

wait, is this serious? Why can't he have AJ, A5, A2, AK, Ax with a spade, even something like KsK, KsJ, KsQ, or even worse hands or a bluff? I raise here and get it in, or I can understand call and stack off on most rivers.

sikes

Gholimoli wrote:

this is pure madness.
how can you sugges a fold here on the turn saying you cant continue profitably.

ofcourse you can .

Against most players I would agree, but i think this guy is a good player.

Gholimoli wrote:

to fold here IMO is madness.
im calling this turn and will happily get my chips in on a none spade river if i have 2.
to say you will not get paid if the board pairs is really madness.
no body is going to fold a flush on that river just cuz the bord pairs you will get paid almost 100%.
who do you think you are playing against Ivery,Durrrrr,Sbrugby etc.

did i say i go broke here?

I dont think you have to look too much higher to find a level where this type of line is going to be exploited alot. I disagree about weak flushes paying off on that river 100% of the time if the board pairs, that is madness.

Gholimoli

sikes wrote:

Against most players I would agree, but i think this guy is a good player.



I dont think you have to look too much higher to find a level where this type of line is going to be exploited alot. I disagree about weak flushes paying off on that river 100% of the time if the board pairs, that is madness.

there is alot more to be exploited here by folding than there is by getting the rest of your stack in trust me.

sikes

Gholimoli wrote:

there is alot more to be exploited here by folding than there is by getting the rest of your stack in trust me.

folding the river is very exploitable, but so is calling. Its the turn thats the problem, imo.

Whats my range on the turn? im playing about 20/16/2.5 over this session, roughly. We are 180BBs deep.

phantom_lord

I go broke here

what are you all expecting to see here? aj?

ocallagh

phantom_lord wrote:

what are you all expecting to see here? aj?

hopefully, or Ax turned into a bluff or a really badly played AK or AK with Ks or maybe even no pair and a missed flush draw with the Ks or maybe 22! you don't need the nuts to bet all 3 streets, especially against someone who has been floating (successfully) a bit at the table and is in prime position to do so again in this hand

Gholimoli

sikes wrote:

folding the river is very exploitable, but so is calling. Its the turn thats the problem, imo.

Whats my range on the turn? im playing about 20/16/2.5 over this session, roughly. We are 180BBs deep.

to ask what you range is on the turn is a bad question cuz basically you have not yet acted on the turn and your range is still the same as it was on the flop.

your range on the flop is huge.
or you can say what he would think of your range if you called the turn?
i would then say you range would be,AJ,AQs,Aks,AJ,55,22,flush,KQs,KKs, and that is if i think you are super super tight.

BigCityBanker

phantom_lord wrote:

what are you all expecting to see here? aj?

What he said

RoundTower wrote:

wait, is this serious? Why can't he have AJ, A5, A2, AK, Ax with a spade, even something like KsK, KsJ, KsQ, or even worse hands or a bluff? I raise here and get it in, or I can understand call and stack off on most rivers.

sikes

I beat a bluff and perhaps 22. Nothing else, and Im amazed so many people want to go broke.

Im also not keen on raising the turn at all. I dont see the value in it, becuase the Ks doesnt make up enough of his range to warrant getting it all in. I think he would fold every other weaker draw.

I dont put too much weight on the fact that I might be viewed as a floater, because its something i very rarely do, and I am not sure he would even register it, he is a multitabler.

sikes

Gholimoli wrote:

to ask what you range is on the turn is a bad question cuz basically you have not yet acted on the turn and your range is still the same as it was on the flop.

your range on the flop is huge.
or you can say what he would think of your range if you called the turn?
i would then say you range would be,AJ,AQs,Aks,AJ,55,22,flush,KQs,KKs, and that is if i think you are super super tight.

well when i say on the turn, i mean when the turn comes down. I think thats generally the terminology used, ie after the flop action my range is ....

phantom_lord

i think you're vastly overestimating how often a 100nl player is gonna shove 100bbs in on a bluff. I think this is a flush nearly always.

Gholimoli

sikes wrote:

well when i say on the turn, i mean when the turn comes down. I think thats generally the terminology used, ie after the flop action my range is ....

but your range changes on the turn depending on what you do so how can some one comment on your range when you have not acted whether the card has come down or not?
if you flat call the turn then your range is one thing but if you raise you range is another and if you fold another and this can all happen on the turn so how can any one comment what your range is when you have not yet acted?

sikes

Gholimoli wrote:

but your range changes on the turn depending on what you do so how can some one comment on your range when you have not acted whether the card has come down or not?
if you flat call the turn then your range is one thing but if you raise you range is another and if you fold another and this can all happen on the turn so how can any one comment what your range is when you have not yet acted?

Don't get hung up on the terminology, it's very clear what I meant now. When I refer to my range on the turn, I'm talking about after the card comes down and before any action occurs. I think that's the standard way, and if not, it's perfectly clear now.

cardshark202

Maybe no-one has noticed that the turn brought a flush possible

sikes

phantom_lord wrote:

i think you're vastly overestimating how often a 100nl player is gonna shove 100bbs in on a bluff. I think this is a flush nearly always.

I think so too.

Ace2007

wat do u think he raised wit pre flop??

any chance of AK with K of spade??

Hectorjelly

Its an aggro guy who raised preflop, he definitely could have AJ 22 or other hands, and its a good board for him to 3 barrel with. At no stage in the hand have we taken an aggressive action so I don't see how we can fold this. I think bar pre-flop this hand was misplayed on every street.

sikes

Hectorjelly wrote:

Its an aggro guy who raised preflop, he definitely could have AJ 22 or other hands, and its a good board for him to 3 barrel with. At no stage in the hand have we taken an aggressive action so I don't see how we can fold this. I think bar pre-flop this hand was misplayed on every street.

The flop was a float and I think its a good flop for it, most of the time he wont have a A tho its a very draw heavy flop, i think floating there rarely is fine, and that was the plan.

Plans change when you hit a two outer, and he decides he is loving the board still and i think the river is close as played, but I certainly think the fold is right.

Do you think I should raise the turn?

ACE: AxKs could well be there.

Slash/ED

phantom_lord wrote:

i think you're vastly overestimating how often a 100nl player is gonna shove 100bbs in on a bluff. I think this is a flush nearly always.

By the same token I think you're underestimating how often a 100nl player is gonna go broke against a very disguised hand with something like top two. He's not gonna put us on 22 given the draw heavy flop and his aggro image means we'd raise there, and he sure as hell can't put us on a turned set. I think I go broke here. There's alot of hands we're ahead of.