Emily and Lilly - Canon 400d

gaffmaster

Hello,

Just wondering if any of you have bought a canon off this ebay shop recently - http://myworld.ebay.ie/emilyandlily? I asked if the mail in rebate that canon are offering this summer comes with the camera? I got this response...

"Thank you for your email. As I know, the rebate promotion can be available for Canon's direct sales only. The item should be comes with region-appropriated plug for your location. Please can you let us know if any further question."

So, does anyone know if this is correct? The camera with a 2GB card comes to about €620 + shipping from Britain - about another €35. Which is still a bood price for a 400d. would be even better with the rebate.

Also wondering about delivery times?

Thanks for reading.

Stephen

Normally those rebate schemes are only available from authorised dealers and only in particular regions, which most ebay shops are not.

Paulw

From reading that email, I doubt you'll get your Canon rebate, and I gather that they are not actually in the UK.

Be careful about warranty, shipping, VAT and such.

If you buy the item within the EU then you should be able to claim the Canon rebate, but the item serial number will tell Canon where the item came from.

Fajitas!

"Factory reconditioned not mentioned!! Would like to have known this."

"Misleading description. Item not from UK and had US power adaptor. Otherwise OK."

"Great camera but refurbished item but as new condition"

Some of the feedback responses...

Mark#1

The €80 cashback promotion is country-specific.

I phoned Canon Ireland about it.

If you buy your 400D in Ireland, you enclose your proof of Irish purchase and submit a form to Canon. Then they reimburse you via whatever method you approve. The shop you buy it from is irrelevant as long as it's in Ireland.

The promotion is in effect in every European country, so if you know & trust someone in the UK, you could arrange something with them, whereby they could recoup the cashback for you if you gave them the money and they ordered it as if it were for themself.

It's £50 in the UK, so emilyandlily's STG price of £420 would come down to £370 (€550 or so, ex shipping to the UK address and onward to Ireland).

If you buy it outside Ireland, the promotion doesn't apply.

A 400D (incl 18-55mm + 2Gb CF) from emilyandlily will come to maybe €650.

The cheapest I've seen in Ireland is in Argos (€770, effectively €690 after the cashback, but with no memory)

Canon Ireland say that Argos are selling the 400D at a loss - a "Lost Leader" - to spur interest on the peripheral products: tripods, memory, extra lenses, cases, etc.

The mark-up on the camera is minimal anyway and the mark-up on the peripherals is huge, compensating for the loss made on the camera.

I reckon I'll be buying an E-410 + 2 lens + 4Gb CF deal for €720-ish + shipping from emilyandlily soon.

They do separate lenses too, AFAIK.

EDIT: Re the cameras being refurbs - maybe some are, but to sell a refurb item without stating it prior to purchase is illegal. Contact consumer affairs for info on this. If the description definitely doesn't state "refurb" anywhere and you're still cautious, a simple pre-purchase question to the seller "is this item (###########) new or a refurb?" will force them to state.

This is a quote from their E-410 description:

"All items are 100% BRAND NEW IN RETAIL BOX."

If one of the items I received transpired to have been refurbished, I'd be on rock solid grounds to return it.


Mark

Paulw

Mark#1 wrote:

I reckon I'll be buying an E-410 + 2 lens + 4Gb CF deal for €720-ish + shipping from emilyandlily soon.

Just be careful. Many of their items are listed as refurbished!!! Make sure you read their reviews.

Check other ebay stores (such as Kea-Photo), as you may actually find cheaper prices, and as quick delivery.

City-Exile

I bought a 400D from them.
It was brand new, but had a Euro plug on the battery charger.
It was a 400D model, not an XTi.
Delivery was 3 days, via UPS.
Item shipped from the UK, so there was no additional VAT.

Mark#1

Hmmm. This thread is whizzing along.

I'm copy/pasting my edit into this new post.

Re the cameras being refurbs - maybe some are, but to sell a refurb item without stating it prior to purchase is illegal. Contact consumer affairs for info on this. If the description definitely doesn't state "refurb" anywhere and you're still cautious, a simple pre-purchase question to the seller "is this item (###########) new or a refurb?" will force them to state.

This is a quote from their E-410 description:

"All items are 100% BRAND NEW IN RETAIL BOX."

If one of the items I received transpired to have been refurbished, I'd be on rock solid grounds to return it.

Here's another quote from the E-410 description:

"Item in UK! NO hidden charges!"

As City-Exile's situation implies, 3-day delivery couldn't be achieved from the US.

Mark

Paulw

Mark#1 wrote:

As City-Exile's situation implies, 3-day delivery couldn't be achieved from the US.

Of course it can. I've had 3 day delivery from HK for some of my stuff bought on ebay. DHL and FedEx both do 3 day international.

Mark#1

Sorry, you're right - it can. But at what cost?

Mark

Valentia

If you buy it outside Ireland, the promotion doesn't apply.

CORRECTION: This is not true.

You WILL get the rebates if you buy in the EU. A friend got a nice cheque recently from Tipperary and he had bought his stuff from technkdirekt over the net from Germany.

Paulw

I had a Canon 70-200mm f/2.8 IS L lens, shipped 3 day delivery. The delivery charge was €65. Mind you the lens cost over €1,200 so that delivery charge was cheap.

Fajitas!

Paulw wrote:

I had a Canon 70-200mm f/2.8 IS L lens, shipped 3 day delivery. The delivery charge was €65. Mind you the lens cost over €1,200 so that delivery charge was cheap.

Similar situations here.

City-Exile

Do they have to be official Canon Resellers, in order for your rebate to be processed?

Valentia

City-Exile wrote:

Do they have to be official Canon Resellers, in order for your rebate to be processed?

I don't know that. Must look at the terms and conditions.

Mark#1

For sure. €65 is a tiny fraction of €1200.

€65 (hypothesizing that the shipping cost might be the same or similar for a camera/kit) as a fraction of €650 (or so) is a significantly bigger fraction.

Whatever, it's definitely cheaper to buy on-line.

RE the €80 cashback, here's a quote from Canon's blurb at canon.ie:

"4. The cashback is only valid where this product has been originally sold by Canon in the EEA or Switzerland. Canon will not redeem this cashback against any other product, except where a successor model originally sold by Canon in the EEA or Switzerland has replaced the products."

When I phoned Canon to ask them to decipher this, the guy I spoke with interpreted it the same way I did - you can claim the €80 back if you bought the 400D where you live.

Now reading back on it, I see that it applies where a 400D has been sold by Canon in the EEA or Switzerland (and not say Hong Kong or USA). If you were trying to claim on a Rebel XTi, with a USA receipt, it won't apply.

Sorry if I misled anybody.

RE the official reseller question: FWIW, the guy on the phone in Canon said that you'd still get the cashback if you bought the 400D from Argos.


Mark

abelard

Does anyone know of any well reputable dealers located in the UK that sell new stock, and at a decent price if possible?

The vast majority of cameras seem to be on offer from emilyandlily or "ebestdeal4u" or a few similar delaers and while the former seem to sometimes sell refurb stuff the latter always do.

I'm aware of the likes of keaphoto, but when you're not buying high-priced stock, the delivery charges can result in negating any savings.

nice1franko

so if you buy the uk version (i.e. the 400d not the rebel xti) from kea you cant get the rebate?

Mark#1

About Kea-photo, am I correct in deducing that they don't sell Olympus gear?

Mark

Paulw

If you buy a camera from outside the EU (EEA), then you can't claim the rebate.

Kea don't seem to sell any Olympus stuff.

Canon Ireland will always want you to buy in Ireland. Buying outside doesn't help their local profits.

Fionn

seems like theres little point in paying (for an Irish item) for perhaps a third more to get back a 10% cashback - bad economics eh?

Re Emily & Lilly i had contacted them when i was looking for a Canon G7 - considering the price i wasn't impressed with their lack of response to e-mails etc. i think this is born out by some of their feedback i've seen. The high feedback could be accounted for in US sales and the poor feedback for European - might that be the case?

gaffmaster

Thank you all for your input and feedback.

I'm a little apprehensive about buying this camera off ebay. but then i'm probably worrying over nothing. Here is a link to the item. http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180139497984&sspagename=ADME:B:AAQ:US:1
it says clearly that the item is brand new.

Is anyone of the opinion that i should buy from Kea-photo instead?

As asked previously, are there any websites based in the UK which are more reliable for brand new stock?

Thanks

Paulw

gaffmaster wrote:

Is anyone of the opinion that i should buy from Kea-photo instead?

The price from Kea is cheaper, widely used by boards people here (myself included) and reliable.

Even when you take in to account the rebate and the 2gb memory card, there is little or nothing in the total difference.

Always check the feedback for ebay users, and see what people think/say.

Kea - 100% positive. Definitely based in HK, I don't think anyone here has been caught for VAT buying from them.
emilyandlily - 99.7%. Registered in the US. Unknown where they ship from. Might you get caught for VAT???

Bottom line - it's your money, so your choice. All we can do is give out opinions and experiences.

Best of luck with your camera. The 400D is a great camera and you'll have fun with it.

gaffmaster

Thanks paul.

I know it is a little thing, and there is no physical difference, but does the badge on the ones from Kea say Rebel XTi or 400d? Could this effect resale value should i decide to upgrade?

Cheers!

Paulw

From Kea, it's a 400D (certainly not an XTi). The XTi brand comes only from the US.

No idea about resale values.

City-Exile

As I've already stated, I had no problem with Emily & Lilly. Have bought two cameras off them.
Having said that, the service from Hong Kong is fantastic!
If you're willing to take the risk on VAT, I'd go for this...

nilhg

Mark#1 wrote:

About Kea-photo, am I correct in deducing that they don't sell Olympus gear?

Mark

I've used these guys for olympus gear and found them very good.

One other point to remember is that most of the continental online shops allow you to input your (any?) VAT number when you are purchasing. If the VAT number is valid then no VAT is charged.

blah

Paulw wrote:

Kea - 100% positive. Definitely based in HK, I don't think anyone here has been caught for VAT buying from them.
emilyandlily - 99.7%. Registered in the US. Unknown where they ship from. Might you get caught for VAT???

It sounds like a few people have bought from emilyandlily, so do any of them know where their goods were shipped from? I'm asking this since I'm based in the UK and I'm thinking about getting a 400D. I would avoid any chance of getting hit by customs and I might even get the rebate.

Fionn

ok heres the way it stacks up;

Morris Photo UK (i've used them a few times for various pieces) 400D Body & 18-55 EF-S Lens Kit €762 incl shipping

Ffords UK 400D Body €697 didn't calculate shipping (I've bought there before)

emilyandlily US/UK who knows? 400D Body €683 incl shipping (didn't like their customer support)

Kea photo HK 400D Body €547 incl shipping (used them before) v good

Trendypod HK 400D Body & 18-55 EF-S Lens €588 Incl Delivery (used these to get a good few things -very competitive)

good luck with it

biko

emilyandlily are US based. I bought a Mju from them. Took maybe 2 weeks to get the item.
The memory card failed after a while but a got a new one no problem - had to send in old one first.

Google emilyandlily, they have had some really crappy reviews but then again they have sold truckloads of cameras...

City-Exile

blah wrote:

It sounds like a few people have bought from emilyandlily, so do any of them know where their goods were shipped from? I'm asking this since I'm based in the UK and I'm thinking about getting a 400D. I would avoid any chance of getting hit by customs and I might even get the rebate.

biko wrote:

emilyandlily are US based. I bought a Mju from them. Took maybe 2 weeks to get the item.

Once again, I've bought two cameras from them. Both were shipped from the UK. (Nottingham)
Both items were shipped with UPS and arrived within 3 days.
Only complaint was that I had to request the UPS tracking number, in order to arrange to be there when USP arrived.

nice1franko

If ur camera just stops working 6 months down the line is ur warranty any good or where would you need to send it to be repaired?

Mark#1

nilhg wrote:

I've used these guys for olympus gear and found them very good.

One other point to remember is that most of the continental online shops allow you to input your (any?) VAT number when you are purchasing. If the VAT number is valid then no VAT is charged.

That chinaarts shop has a quote immediately below the header for the E-410 item:

"NO VAT and NO TAX guarantee to buyers in UK / USA / AU"

Then in the middle of the description:

"Item is shipped from HONG KONG, price is NOT Included VAT/TAX, I will try my best to reduce it."

Interesting. Sounds like you'll only avoid paying tax for certain if you can provide a VAT number, and if you can't he'll "try his best" to reduce it.

Mark

nilhg

When I bought a lens from him, he put a value of €35 on it and I had to pay DHL €7 when they delivered. He did this without me asking and I presume it would be at his own risk as the goods are not my responsibility until I signed for them.

Stephen

Try this guy: http://stores.ebay.ie/FLASH-CAMERA
He's based in Scotland and his postage fees are a fraction of what the Hong Kongers charge. I bought a speedlight from him last week and it arrived in 3 days with full Nikon EU warranty. He doesn't have much stuff listed on eBay but he says if you ask him he probably has it!

gaffmaster

Thanks again for everyone's input.

In the end I went for Emily and Lily and this is why.

Eventhough it worked out at €50 more from them, it did include a 2Gb Memory card. and at least with them, i have a chance of being able to avail of the rebate... but i'm not counting my chickens.

So I have tried to set up a PayPal account, but it will take a few days for it to be fully set up - need varification numbers on my credit card bill! :rolleyes:

Thanks again everyone. I will keep you posted on the progress of the camera's delivery.

City-Exile

gaffmaster wrote:

need varification numbers on my credit card bill! :rolleyes:

Why the eye rolling at an additional security feature?
You'd be straight on here crying, if someone used your credit card, in a frauduant manner.

Anyway, if you use Internet Banking, you can see that code in your online statement.

gaffmaster

The eye rolling is because of the extra time i have to wait till i gets my camera i tells ya!

i welcome any additional security tricks.

nice1franko

Fionn wrote:

ok heres the way it stacks up;

Morris Photo UK (i've used them a few times for various pieces) 400D Body & 18-55 EF-S Lens Kit €762 incl shipping

Ffords UK 400D Body €697 didn't calculate shipping (I've bought there before)

emilyandlily US/UK who knows? 400D Body €683 incl shipping (didn't like their customer support)

Kea photo HK 400D Body €547 incl shipping (used them before) v good

Trendypod HK 400D Body & 18-55 EF-S Lens €588 Incl Delivery (used these to get a good few things -very competitive)

good luck with it

to add to that list:
www.komplett.ie €730 400d + kit lens (plus 80 cashback and canon irl/europe warranty)

gaffmaster

Emily and Lily are causing me grief!!!

So here's how things went.

I used the Buy now option on 17th July, but needed to set up a PayPal acount before I could pay for it. I did not know it would take 3 or 4 days to get the account varified.

I paid for the item on 20th July. On the Emily and Lily page, they boast that they will ship within two days after they receive payment.

Today, the 25th I received this email

"Dear Buyer,

Thank you for your business. We have received your payment. However, we
have been having a lot of problems with losses due to fraud payments, and
unfortunately we have been compelled to make a policy of not shipping
immediately for buyers with a feedback rating of zero. We will ship your
item after a period of 4 to 5 business days. We apologize for any
inconvenience. Please let us know if we can help any further.

Most items are shipped with DHL. For buyers outside the UK (except
Australia), your item will be shipped with Royal Mail and should be
received within 5-10 business days after posted." etc etc


Now, the only reason I have zero feedback is because I am new to eBay. I leave the country on 1st of August and I REALLY expected to have the camera by then, having ordered it two weeks before... grrrrrr

Has anyone ever experienced this before??

Paulw

Unfortunately for you, that's not unusual for your first ebay purchase, considering it's worth a few hundred Euro.

I'm sure you'd prefer that they are sure they're shipping to the right person, rather than fraud on your credit card.

Be patient. Just let them know that you need it in a hurry and them may be able to speed up the process.

City-Exile

This is normal practice.
Keep at them, until they ship it.
Make sure you get the DHL/UPS shipment tracking number off them.
You will then be able to ring the shipping company & arrange to get the package as soon as possible.
If they use UPS, you may never see the camera, as they do not contact you directly & often don't bother ringing your doorbell.

nice1franko

no I went for the kea option. ordered it last wednesday and it came monday morn. (ordered the 2 gig cf card from 7dayshop for 10 stg - came monday morn too). you were told!!

gaffmaster

Was that your first purchase on eBay?

nice1franko

no, i'd a 25 or so.

this is neither here nor there but... the delay on the order is for their safety - not yours.

gaffmaster

Yeah I realise that and it makes me angry! I've emailed them explaining my situation. I was convinced i would get it quicker from Britain than Hong-Kong.

gaffmaster

Okay,

So Emily and Lily claim that they will ship it on July 27th, but it will take 5-8 business days to get to me!!! They confirmed that they will not get it to me by August 1st.

Does anyone know if Kea-photo would get it to me by then? OR Komplett.ie?? Or will i just have to do without it while I am away? (going to Edinburgh for the month)

Thanks for all of your help and opinions.

Paulw

If you're that concerned, get them to ship it by DHL overnight. They have an international express delivery system. You'll pay more, but you'll get the camera.

nice1franko

Ask emily and lily to post it to Edinburgh for you

Paulw

nice1franko wrote:

Ask emily and lily to post it to Edinburgh for you

I'd say there's slim to no chance of this. They'll only post to the registered address for the credit card, to ensure no credit card fraud.

gaffmaster

I thought about that myself... but i also doubt they would post to another address, considering the whole reason it is held up is to avoid fraudulent orders.

Might get a friend to pick it up from my place and bring it with him to Edinburgh, he is coming later in the month.

Thanks again everyone. This forum is great.