Radar/laser jammers

rowanh

Does anyone know what the story is with the anti radar/lazer devices, I thought that they were illegal, the cops could somehow tell if you had one and they didnt work properly. A couple people though have said they work and are totally legal recently. There is a really cheap one you can get on ebay that show emergancy vehicles signals, that would be fairly handy, seems the better ones are a few hundred quid. I dont break the speed limit often but do sometimes and it would be nice to not be constantly worrying about cops round the next corner and even more fixed cameras that will give you a ticket for being 3kph over the limit etc.

daedalus2097

Oooh, there's some bait for the PC brigade Thing is, they probably can tell something is up when they can't get any readings after a couple of attempts. The jammers basically just pour out the frequencies used by the speed guns to totally confuse them, so when you're coming up the road and in view of them their speed gun will effectively be useless. If there aren't too many other cars around they'll probably work out the jamming signal is coming from you and pull you in. I thought they (and passive detectors) were still illegal, and could be confiscated by and Garda only to be replaced by a fine. Any information to back up their legality?

CreepingDeath

As far as I know, they are illegal.
Not sure what good a laser detector is.... by the time the laser hits your registration plate it's too late unless you stand on the brakes.

If you want to be warned about fixed cameras, then you can quite legally download the speed camera locations from the net, plug then into your satelite navigation system and get it to give you a warning before you approach them.

Seth Brundle

They are illegal to import, buy, sell, fit, own, use etc. as per my link below.

CreepingDeath wrote:

If you want to be warned about fixed cameras, then you can quite legally download the speed camera locations from the net, plug then into your satelite navigation system and get it to give you a warning before you approach them.

Im open to correction, I think even this may be illegal!
Road Traffic (Speed Meter Detectors) Regulations, 1991

3. In these Regulations, "speed meter detector" means any device which is capable of being used to indicate the existence of, or to frustrate the operation of, electronic or other apparatus being used to give indications from which the speed at which a person was driving can be inferred.
4. A person shall not use in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle to which is fitted, or in or on which is carried, a speed meter detector whether or not such device is actually in use.

TomMc

Don't go there. Just slow down.

If you are caught with one I doubt the local judge will do anything but throw the book at you. Just because some might be legal in the UK does not mean it's OK here. AFAIK Laser Jammers would be illegal regardless.

The problem with these (forgetting about false alerts and having to keep it plugged in and out of sight etc.) is that they may give you some advance warning of radar (gatso cameras) with time to react and slow down, but where laser equipment is concerned they will only go off after the beam (Garda or fixed installation) has sent out same at your vehicle and you are more or less caught out there (he/she will get a reading more or less straight away) before you have time to adjust your speed.:D

Anan1

I used to have a unit called the M10-Blinder installed in a previous car, you can google it for details. In my experience, it worked perfectly. That said, this was 5 years ago - laser gun technology may have moved on since.

TomMc

I had a BEL 550 which was very good at its job, just not worth the hassle & risks involved. They lull you into a false sense of security and can make you paranoid at the same time.

Anan1

I think you really need an inbuilt radar detector & laser jammer, along with a fairly high degree of alertness, and an acceptance that you may get caught anyway.

MrPudding

TomMc wrote:

but where laser equipment is concerned they will only go off after the beam (Garda or fixed installation) has sent out same at your vehicle and you are more or less caught out there (he/she will get a reading more or less straight away) before you have time to adjust your speed.:D

I don't think this is actually the case. A bit more information here:

http://www.valentine1.com/lab/MikesLabRpt6.asp

MrP

TomMc

MrPudding wrote:

I don't think this is actually the case. A bit more information here:

http://www.valentine1.com/lab/MikesLabRpt6.asp

MrP

They would say that, they are trying to sell the things. That may have been the case in the past (the pros), but the Garda use Tripods a lot of the time now (the cons) so if you fancy taking a chance that they will be using a handheld as you pass by, well good luck to you.:D

Even if they are the odds are still stacked well against the driver.

The only time you will beat a laser device legally (& avoid a summonds for speeding, apart from been just over the limit or been ultra polite to the Garda) is if the Garda does not take the first reading or delays taking one for a few moments, which gives you time to slow down. Again your playing russian roulette. My advice buy a decent (refined) motor that is enjoyable to drive within the speed limits.

Gatster

This is 'hidden-ish, but plugs into the lighter, nothing on the dash (unless you want to put it there). Considering it for my Xmas list...

http://www.radar-detectors.co.uk/cheetah_sentinel.asp

Blitzkrieger

My car's a bastard to park. Big long nose and huge spoiler blocking your view - I was thinking of getting one of these.

It's meant to give an error code on the laser gun. You can set it to turn off after a few seconds if it detects another laser which is supposed to give you time to slow down. I give no guarantee that the source of that article isn't affiliated with the products being sold.

I've heard (because I would never undertake such illegal activities myself) that radar detectors are only good for fixed sites. For mobile sites they really need a good line of sight of the radar gun which the garda probably won't be good enough to give you. I'm also dubious of their claimed radar jamming abilities.

You pays your money and you takes your chances.

daedalus2097

Laser jamming in theory is quite easy to do, works a similar way to remote control jamming. Try using two different manufacturer's remotes at the same time in the same place and see if either of them work. In practice though it does depend on getting good line of sight of the Garda before he does of you...

pred racer

There are laser jammers that double as a garage door opener! (dont have a link handy) but you better make sure you have a garage door to open or they'll throw the book at you. it is illegal to even own such a device (up till afew years ago it was just illegal to use them )

Anan1

pred racer wrote:

There are laser jammers that double as a garage door opener! (dont have a link handy) but you better make sure you have a garage door to open or they'll throw the book at you.

The unit I had (M-10 Blinder) was described as a 'garage door opener'. I suppose on a used car, you could just deny all knowledge, ie say that's how you bought the car. Given how well integrated the unit is, it would be quite easy to drive a car with one and not know.

NBar

Anan1 wrote:

The unit I had (M-10 Blinder) was described as a 'garage door opener'. I suppose on a used car, you could just deny all knowledge, ie say that's how you bought the car. Given how well integrated the unit is, it would be quite easy to drive a car with one and not know.

I suppose the same could be said if the car had bald tyres or no number plates cause if you had one fitted unknown to yourself then you would be whizzing past speed traps they would be wondering what you are on or have to not slow down

layke

If a laser fails on any car the guards are more likely to chase you and check the car out to make sure your not carrying a jammer.

OKenora

forget laser jammers, the way the Irish law is worded it also technically outlaws the use of GPS Sat nav systems.......

In these Regulations, "speed meter detector" means any device which is capable of being used to indicate the existence of, or to frustrate the operation of, electronic or other apparatus being used to give indications from which the speed at which a person was driving can be inferred.

A sat nav system with a speed camera database (as mine was supplied out of the box, brand new) is technically not legal under that law as it is "capable of being used to indicate the existence of".

Wonder will someone bother to challenge this law ? It may bring the whole thing tumbling down and get them to release the camera locations like they do in near every other EU country.

Esel

OKenora wrote:

A sat nav system with a speed camera database (as mine was supplied out of the box, brand new) is technically not legal under that law as it is "capable of being used to indicate the existence of".

I wouldn't agree. The GPS is only indicating a particular geographical location. It is not receiving any signal from the speed-detecting device, or interfering with its operation.

OKenora

I agree 100% with your view esel, point is though the law states "any device which is capable of being used to indicate the existence of, or to frustrate the operation of"

Surely it can easily be argued that knowing the exact location of the camera and getting advance notice of this is "indicating the existence" and armed with this knowledge will definitely "frustrate the operation of". Whats the difference between a GPS saying, "speed camera 1000 metres, limit 50" to a radar detector saying "radar detected, limit 50" they both indicate the presence of the camera, using different methods but the same effect. Difference is, the GPS warning should make you slow earlier and whether the camera is active or not, isn't that what we want ?

The law is a shile of pite tbh, very badly worded and hastily thrown together and open to huge mis-interpretation. It has no impact on road safety and seems purely there to preserve the cash cow that is the speeding fine. If a challenge to this came about showing it covered SAT NAV systems you now have a huge amount of support on the side of the motorist which would include the manafacturers of cars and satnavs and some other weighty groups and a push for a better speed camera law that actually would work could be made, UK model seems to work fine and they publish everything right down to the mobile patrol locations.

I personally disagree with radar and laser jammers but still would fight whole heartedly to have the speed camera database a matter of public knowledge as I feel that will contribute far more to road safety than the cameras on their own ever will.

Esel

AFAIK in the UK the angle is that the GPS is warning you about a potential hazard ahead - stupid drivers jamming on etc.

OKenora

AFAIK in the UK the angle is that the GPS is warning you about a potential hazard ahead - stupid drivers jamming on etc.

UK does not need an angle, the GPS databases and camera detectors are legal. The police want drivers to slow down, they aren't really too worried about how they do that as long as they do.

_Kaiser_

CreepingDeath wrote:

If you want to be warned about fixed cameras, then you can quite legally download the speed camera locations from the net, plug then into your satelite navigation system and get it to give you a warning before you approach them.

My Airis 920 GPS supports this, but only has the data for the UK cameras.
Has someone released an update for the Irish ones?

MrPudding

OKenora wrote:

UK does not need an angle, the GPS databases and camera detectors are legal. The police want drivers to slow down, they aren't really too worried about how they do that as long as they do.

Exactly. Some of the camera databases used by the GPS systems are actually updated by the police.

Allow me to rephrase things slightly for Ireland:

The Irish Law wrote:

3. In these Regulations, "speed meter detector" means any device which is capable of being used to indicate the existence of, or to frustrate the operation of, electronic or other apparatus being used to collct money.
4. A person shall not use in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle to which is fitted, or in or on which is carried, a money collection device detector whether or not such device is actually in use.

If it was about safety then there would be no problem with using detectors. The point of a safety camera is to slow people down. Let people know where they are and they will slow down.

MrP

tuxy

MrPudding wrote:

If it was about safety then there would be no problem with using detectors. The point of a safety camera is to slow people down. Let people know where they are and they will slow down.

MrP

Safe?? Slam on brakes, then accelerate hard once past the camera.

MrPudding

tuxy wrote:

Safe?? Slam on brakes, then accelerate hard once past the camera.

Excellent, thank you for helping me make my point. Slamming on the brakes is what happens when a driver with no prior knowledge of a camera spots one, almost too late. If you know well in advance where the camera is located then there will be no emergency braking.

I suppose how you feel about this depends on your view of speeding. For me I do not think people should be punished for being a little over the limit in natinal speed limit areas.

I do understand the need for speed limits, especially in built up areas, but I do not like the "fish in a barrel" approach that seems to be being adopted.

If they are safety cameras then they should be used for safety. They should be used to shape driver behaviour with immediate effect, not 6 months down the line.

Overt cameras could actually be used to slow people down in areas where they need to be slowed down. Have them in areas where there are dangerous corners and advertise them. People will slow down right there and take the corner at a safe speed.

To be honest this is a much bigger issue than cameras and where they are placed. We have a large number of roads and corners that are very dangerous well below the speed you are allowed to officially travel on them.

As I have said before, shooting fish in a barrel on the N11 will not stop people dying on the road in Donegal.

MrP

_Kaiser_

MrPudding wrote:

As I have said before, shooting fish in a barrel on the N11 will not stop people dying on the road in Donegal.

MrP

Completely agree with you. Unfortunately though, the Gardai/politicians are only interested in the revenue and stats generated by the current approach so they can then turn around and point to the figures as evidence that it's working :rolleyes:

It's like them patting themselves on the back recently about their drink driving detection. I can't even remember the last time I saw a checkpoint for anything other than tax/insurance, never mind a random breathalyser test.

eringobragh

rowanh wrote:

There is a really cheap one you can get on ebay that show emergancy vehicles signals, that would be fairly handy, seems the better ones are a few hundred quid.

#

Don't waste your time with cheap detectors every traffic light / bright light will set them off, i've a terrible time with leaky cobra detectors setting off mine

My recommendations apart from slowing down :rolleyes: are

be warned city driving is a pain as K-Band falses from autmatic doors

the best there is:

Valentine V1 (Very Expensive)
Bel STi
Bel RX65
Most Bel / Escort Models

As said you'd be better with a good laser jammer , theres a few but they work very well against the garda LTI Ultralyte and LTI Marksman.

As for fixed cameras ive the coorinates for all 20 or so if you want them

galwaytt

tuxy wrote:

Safe?? Slam on brakes, then accelerate hard once past the camera.

...also known as 'accordian driving'...........brake/accelerate/brake/accelerate, all in tune to the location of speed camera's etc........

Caliden

So how true is it that hanging a blank CD from your rear view mirror is enough to screw the laser?
Also can't you get special reflective number plates?

blastman

Where did all these worms come from?

NewApproach

Kaiser2000 wrote:

My Airis 920 GPS supports this, but only has the data for the UK cameras.
Has someone released an update for the Irish ones?

Would this not be useless, as most cameras in Ireland are mobile as opposed to fixed in the UK

Terrontress

galwaytt wrote:

...also known as 'accordian driving'...........brake/accelerate/brake/accelerate, all in tune to the location of speed camera's etc........

On the M1, between Dunleer and Monasterboice, there are drivers who slow down to 50mph in the outside lane because there is a speed camera. To my mind, that makes the camera a dangerous distraction and should be made illegal.

MrPudding

Terrontress wrote:

On the M1, between Dunleer and Monasterboice, there are drivers who slow down to 50mph in the outside lane because there is a speed camera. To my mind, that makes the camera a dangerous distraction and should be made illegal.

The argument against making the camera illegal, and I think it is a good one, is that drivers should be capable of driving to a standard that will allow them to safely pass a speed camera or indeed any other hazard, in a manner that is safe and does not inconvenience other road users.

I think most of the problems associated with Irish driving could be addressed with training. People need to realise that they can safely pass cameras at the actual speed limit safely. They do not need to pass them 10 kph below the limit. That and the fact that general driving standards are fcuking atrocious.

I also strongly believe that knowing well in advance the location of the cameras will stop the dangerous last second reactions to them.

MrP

tuxy

Ya you are right, it would be less dangerous if people knew the locations.
But they would still promote breaking(just not as hard breaking) then accelerating. Which may still make the road more dangerous than when there are no cameras.

OKenora

Which camera will have a more immediate effect on road safety, the one drivers know about 500 yds before a dangerous junction/corner that forces them to slow to a more proper speed for that junction/corner or the one in the middle of the M1 catching people doing 130kph on an empty motorway ?

Which one do you think you are more likely to see being used in Ireland ?

Which one do you think will be quoted as a massive success in improving road safety by the authorities based on the number of catches it makes ? (remember the one at the junction/corner needs make 0 catches to be 100% effective, the one on the motorway can make 50 catches a day but may actually make no difference to road safety at all)

Road safety should not be measured by how many people you catch speeding but by how many people you stop speeding, even if only temporarily for a known black spot.

Nobody has ever been killed or injured by simply driving too fast...<<<< SOUNDS MAD BUT TRUE. Loads of people have been killed by driving too fast at the wrong times, surely the way to protect them from themselves is to stop them driving too fast at the wrong times ? The guy who gets done for 130 on the M1 is still going to approach the bad corner or junction where he knows there is no camera too fast.

OK so in the end they all lose their licence with excessive points, wow is that the solution ? If it is then why did we ever give them a licence in the first place, why didn't we bother with proper driver training at the start......and what happens when these guys lose their licence ? Well they probs get another somehow (not as hard as it sounds) and if they cannot now afford the insurance, they simply drive on fake discs or without any.....has the situation improved at all ?

MrPudding

tuxy wrote:

Ya you are right, it would be less dangerous if people knew the locations.
But they would still promote breaking(just not as hard breaking) then accelerating. Which may still make the road more dangerous than when there are no cameras.

You seem to be implying that the reaction to the camera, whether it is known or not is what is actually dangerous. If this is what you are saying, that the act of brakng before and then accelerating after a camera is dangerous, then surely you have to admit that the road would be safer overall if the camera was not there?

Roads, in and of themselves are not dangerous. Neither is speed. What is dangerous is certain combinations of features of road coupled with inappropriate speed for those features.

What benefit, safety wise, does a camera on a straight piece on road have? If you have a long section of straight road with no hazards, this is where most people have a problem with the cameras, a camera, hidden or not, will not really add anythin to the overall safety of the road.

How dangerous is it to do 130 in a 120 zone on a perfectly straight piece of road? Not much I would think.

I am more interested in using cameras to shape driver behaviour make the roads safer, notjust collect money.

MrP

Blitzkrieger

Caliden wrote:

So how true is it that hanging a blank CD from your rear view mirror is enough to screw the laser?
Also can't you get special reflective number plates?

Both shown to be useless by Myth Busters.


For all you conspiracy fans : were Myth Busters actually working with the police to deter people from trying to avoid laser traps? The trouble with being paranoid.......

blastman

There was an episode of Road Wars recently in Sky One where a guy was pulled over because although his rear number plate looked normal, when the camera in the cop car looked at it, it appeared blank. I presume this was a specially made plate rather than a spray job, though.

Balfa

OKenora wrote:

A sat nav system with a speed camera database is technically not legal under that law as it is "capable of being used to indicate the existence of".

Yeah, and my eyes are illegal because they're capable of interpreting a camera flash as the existence of a speed trap.

Seth Brundle

Not quite!
In post #4 I stated part of the law and your eyes would not be classified as a 'device'

SDK

CreepingDeath wrote:

As far as I know, they are illegal.
Not sure what good a laser detector is.... by the time the laser hits your registration plate it's too late unless you stand on the brakes.

If you want to be warned about fixed cameras, then you can quite legally download the speed camera locations from the net, plug then into your satelite navigation system and get it to give you a warning before you approach them.

what is the link of that page?

TychoCaine

CreepingDeath wrote:

If you want to be warned about fixed cameras, then you can quite legally download the speed camera locations from the net, plug then into your satelite navigation system and get it to give you a warning before you approach them.

Nope, they're illegal too. In the UK detectors are illegal, but GPS-based devices are fine. In Ireland any device which "indicates the presence" of a camera is illegal, regardless of the means used.

I used to work for a company that manufactures and sells GPS-based camera warning devices, and they are illegal to sell and use over here. So much so that the first batch from China were impounded by customs as soon as they came off the boat. They were only released after being tested by the gardai. Having the coordinates stored in your sat-nav would be very hard for your average guard to twig, but it is technically against the law.