Top-notch cars to help gardai chase down criminals

PeteK*

Top-notch cars to help gardai chase down criminals


Sunday July 08 2007

RONALD QUINLAN

YOU can't run and you can't hide - that's the latest message being sent to the underworld by gardai as the force's specialist units take delivery of a range of high-powered, top marque cars to pursue serious criminals.

Officers assigned to the Emergency Response Unit (ERU), Special Detective Unit (SDU) and National Drugs Unit (NDU) are among those who will be assigned cars more usually associated with senior company executives as the war on crime moves up a gear.

Gardai have already taken delivery of a fleet consisting of 3 and 5 Series BMWs, Audi A6s and the Volvo S60 and S80.
Officers assigned to the ERU will also have BMW X5 jeeps at their disposal in the course of duty.

The decision to invest in the vehicles - which range in price from €52,000 for the 2.4 litre Audi A6 to €80,000 for the 3 litre powered BMW X5 - may be perceived in some quarters as being an extravagant use of taxpayers' money. However, gardai insist on the need for them.

"When you have serious criminals driving around in souped-up BMWs and the like, and you're in a run-of-the-mill saloon car, that's a problem. This just levels the playing field," one Garda source said. "Apart from the power the BMW 5 series or a Volvo S80 have, they aren't cars criminals normally associate with gardai. And with so many of these vehicles now on the road thanks to the Celtic Tiger, it helps us to blend into the background in terms of conducting surveillance. It makes a lot of sense when you think about it," another Garda source added.

The decision to equip gardai with the higher-powered top brand vehicles is understood to have been driven through by the appointment of Kathleen O'Toole as Chief Inspector of the newly-constituted Garda Inspectorate.
Ms O'Toole - a former Boston police Commissioner - has already publicly expressed her aim to see gardai better equipped and resourced to tackle crime.

According to information provided by the Department of Justice, a major investment programme is now under way across the Garda fleet.
Last year, a total of €27.45 million was spent by the Government in purchasing 1,378 vehicles - just over half of the ardai's 2,247-strong Garda fleet.

The condition of the Garda fleet came in for serious discussion in May of last year when Garda Commissioner Noel Conroy appeared before the Oireachtas Transport Committee. Independent TD Michael Lowry broached the subject of the deteriorating condition of some Garda cars when compared to other modern vehicles on the roads.

He told the Committee of how he had personally seen two Garda cars with 138,000 and 126,000km on their respective clocks "I've seen too many clapped-out Garda cars with phenomenal mileage on them," said Mr Lowry, adding that the force's vehicles need to be capable of getting to the scene of accidents or crimes "speedily and safely".

[Source]

PeteK*

Here are some exapmles:









:cool:

mike65

If they were serious they'd be investing in a fleet of Konigstaggagagagag thingies!

Mike.

Dwilly

That's the way to do it

E@gle.

Chatmaster wrote:

Top-notch cars to help gardai chase down criminals




" they aren't cars criminals normally associate with gardai. hen you think about it," another Garda source added.

Well they know now

ctc_celtic

i thought the Irish police had some high powered cars already??
cant remember which types.



Side Note;
about 7 years back, when driving in Northern Ireland i was passed out by a WRX wagon and a moded Civic, i just though it was two boy racers. but a few miles down the road, i seen the two cars pulled in and the PSNI (RUC) getting out of the WRX, i doubt the usual mondeo would have kept up.

PeteK*

mike65 wrote:

If they were serious they'd be investing in a fleet of Konigstaggagagagag thingies!

Mike.

Umm, what are they? lol




E@gle. : Yeah they're so stupid Lol. But unless they mean some very well unmarked units.

OKenora

Traffic corps in NI have some really nice bits of kit, some of which any boy racer would be proud to get his mitts on, mixed in with some really mundane stuff. Some of the more modest cars externally have mods under the bonnet which help a lot.

bazz26

ctc_celtic wrote:

i thought the Irish police had some high powered cars already??
cant remember which types.

I think they had a couple of Evos on trial but the fuel bills were massive.

R.O.R

Apparently there is an unmarked Evo 8 driven by one of the top bods. I also saw a 530d Wagon in Grey a couple of weeks ago. Unmarked but had the lights going past Whitehall Church towards the M1.

Blitzkrieger

Chatmaster wrote:

higher-powered top brand vehicles
[/FONT]

*rofls

I'm not worried about the garda car behind me - it's the radio I can't out-run.

rowanh

Chatmaster wrote:

He told the Committee of how he had personally seen two Garda cars with 138,000 and 126,000km on their respective clocks "I've seen too many clapped-out Garda cars with phenomenal mileage on them," said Mr Lowry, adding that the force's vehicles need to be capable of getting to the scene of accidents or crimes "speedily and safely".

[/QUOTE]


126k would be grand if the car had been serviceds properly. I dont see how this in anyway justifies buying 80k euro cars. I still think this is insane, seems to me like it the guards wanting to have flash cars. The one time i was involved in a crash theat required the guards to come it took them over two hours to get there and it was abour 2 miles to the nearest police station, i dont see how having 5 series bmws would have helped them get there any quicker, id say you might find the same kind of situation if you were on the recieving end of a robbery.

PauloMN

rowanh wrote:

126k would be grand if the car had been serviceds properly. I dont see how this in anyway justifies buying 80k euro cars. I still think this is insane, seems to me like it the guards wanting to have flash cars. The one time i was involved in a crash theat required the guards to come it took them over two hours to get there and it was abour 2 miles to the nearest police station, i dont see how having 5 series bmws would have helped them get there any quicker, id say you might find the same kind of situation if you were on the recieving end of a robbery.

Completely agree. If they need speed, surely some cheaper Japanese buzzbombs would make more sense. Or what about Focus/Mondeo STs? Loads of cheaper - and possibly more reliable - options out there.

What fcukin' use is an X5 going to be in ANY situation? Do they just want to keep up the bling bling factor to match the drug lords? They'll be wanting 21" chrome wheels and blacked out windows on them next. :rolleyes:

To call 126k kms "phenomenal" is just daft. That's 78k miles in real money. There should be plenty of life in a car that's done 78k miles, once it's had basic maintenance.

jjbrien

This is the best police car I have seen no chace the criminals can out run this.

Anan1

jjbrien wrote:

This is the best police car I have seen no chace the criminals can out run this.

Assuming the criminals are sportsmanlike enough to keep to smooth roads. That thing wouldn't catch a Daihatsu Charade if the driver, say, crossed the median of a dual-carriageway.

omega man

What a waste of taxpayers money. Surely there are suitable alternatives out there instead of the likes of X5's etc. I know in the UK they use octavia RS's amongst others so why the need for such fancy motors. Is it a matter of power, quality or size?

R.O.R

Depends on how long they are going to run them for and whether they'll need to pay any VRT if they are sold on.

Remember that the cars are free of VRT and VAT so are ridiculously cheap in comparison to the figure's we'd pay. If they run them for 2 years and sell them on (without having to pay VAT or VRT) then there is probably profit to be made.

rowanh

R.O.R wrote:

Depends on how long they are going to run them for and whether they'll need to pay any VRT if they are sold on.

Remember that the cars are free of VRT and VAT so are ridiculously cheap in comparison to the figure's we'd pay. If they run them for 2 years and sell them on (without having to pay VAT or VRT) then there is probably profit to be made.

That is a good point at hte same time i think cop cars sell for very little as they are thrashed about a lot, also will have holes drilled in them etc for equipment.

Also you could say the same about any cars in terms of htem selling them, id say the depreciation on a bmw is quite high in comparrison to say a skoda octavia rs as mentioned above. Id actually sat the RS is an ideal high speed pursuit car or a mitsubishi lancer GSR, its 4wd and about 215 bhp and cheap.


Edit: also this has to be the best police car ever

rebel.ranter

TBH, I see the point of the "blending in" bit. Up to now you just looked out for the navy/blue "D" reg "rep mobeiles" (e.g. Mondeo, Vectra, Avensis, Primera, Corolla) with the extra antenna at the side of the road or in traffic. They were far too obvious.
The Subaru Forresters were a bit more covert than I certainly expected, got a bit of a shock when I saw one of them with a guy pulled in. Same strory when I saw a 320D saloon pulling a guy on the M7 near Portlaoise. Now with BMWs/Volvos/Audis being potential cop cars you won't be able to spot them as easily. Every man & his dog seems to have a BMW these days.

The local Gardai are still driving Fiestas & Puntos etc. Horses for courses I say. In every other country in the world Police forces are investing in this type of vehicle, why should Ireland be any different?

Seth Brundle

By modern motoring standards, are 3 and 5 & X5 Series BMWs, Audi A6s and the Volvo S60 and S80 really top notch?

um7y1h83ge06nx

They could have got a few imported jap vehicles for much cheaper.

Something like a Toyota Supra twin turbo should be able to keep up with most cars.

layke

rowanh wrote:

I dont see how this in anyway justifies buying 80k euro cars.

Exactly.

kbannon wrote:

By modern motoring standards, are 3 and 5 & X5 Series BMWs, Audi A6s and the Volvo S60 and S80 really top notch?

Nope. In fact, they are quite underpowered comparing to what a lot of modded car owners spin around in.

Mathias Scary Drunkard wrote:

They could have got a few imported jap vehicles for much cheaper.

Something like a Toyota Supra twin turbo should be able to keep up with most cars.

Give him a prize! Exactly, more power, handles better just as cheap to run. Howerver there may be a flaw in ye olde logic. You see The gov could say were buying xxx amount of cars in and the guards get a certain percent of them. Meaning they get no say in the matter. Sure why do you think they buy Fiats?

prospect

Chatmaster wrote:

Last year, a total of €27.45 million was spent by the Government in purchasing 1,378 vehicles

27,450,000 / 1,378 = €19,920 average

Seems like very prudent spending to me.

R.O.R

prospect wrote:

27,450,000 / 1,378 = €19,920 average

Seems like very prudent spending to me.

And for that, through goverment central purchasing, you aren't far off the cost of a Landcruiser GX LWB 3.0D4d (passenger - no VRT difference).

unkel

R.O.R wrote:

a Landcruiser GX LWB 3.0D4d

I thought the point was to get something a bit quicker than a Punto?

R.O.R

unkel wrote:

I thought the point was to get something a bit quicker than a Punto?

Having "toyed" with a commercial up the M1 in my Octavia VRs (Huge boot BTW before Henry gets in there ) I can tell you that they are no slouch.
Gave that as an example and because it's the only vehicle I know how much they cost to the Government.

Robbo

Mathias Scary Drunkard wrote:

They could have got a few imported jap vehicles for much cheaper.

Something like a Toyota Supra twin turbo should be able to keep up with most cars.

I really don't think that rehashing the plot of the Fast and the Furious is the future of policing on the roads.

murphaph

I have no problem with properly trained police officers driving high powered and high spec European motors. They do it everywhere else. I do have a probem with ordinary guards on a provisional or a basic cat B licence (no IAM etc.) whizzing about in any such persuit vehicle and I believe Garda cars are generally treated like sh!te by their drivers and the organisation as a whole. Do they even wash them very often? They always seem to look wrecked even after a year in service. You rarely see manky PSNI vehicles running about.

Clare gunner

First off,can the gardai actually handle high speed persuits in high powerd vechicles?Considering one Ban Garda lost control in a normal squad car and wiped out a granny a couple of years ago.
What is wrong with buying normal Toyotas,Fords etc and having them modded to"police specs"As any normal US PD or Sheriffs dept does?
Just cos it has BMW,Audi or whatever on the bonnet,doesnt mean the person inside it can handle it properly or will be able to keep up with the chasee.

maidhc

murphaph wrote:

They always seem to look wrecked even after a year in service. You rarely see manky PSNI vehicles running about.

I'd say your car would be wrecked too if you had scumbags throwing stuff at it on a saturday night! The paddywagons seem to get the worst doing. There is an 06 one in Cork without a straight panel on it.

murphaph

maidhc wrote:

I'd say your car would be wrecked too if you had scumbags throwing stuff at it on a saturday night! The paddywagons seem to get the worst doing. There is an 06 one in Cork without a straight panel on it.

I'd confidently say there's less respect for the PSNI than the Garda and their motors always look smart, even the armoured landrovers!

maidhc

murphaph wrote:

I'd confidently say there's less respect for the PSNI than the Garda and their motors always look smart, even the armoured landrovers!

€5 that it is easier to dent a Fiat Ducato than an armour plated landrover.

I don't doubt the garda drivers are careless with the cars, but they do get a hard life at the same time.

murphaph

They do indeed but an oul wash every now and again can't be asking that much. Brit cop cars seem to have panels replaced as soon as they are damaged. They must get bashed up there too but they always look smart. I (sadly) believe it's symptomatic of the irish "shur'n it'll do rightly" attitude.

colm_mcm

I saw an armoured police Suzuki Carry in Rome last week. Kinda made lose the respect they got from me for cruising round in the Alfa 159 JTD-M's

I was thinking, "they might be bulletproof, but I could just tip it over if I wanted!"

crosstownk

Not many can out run one of these.................



More expensive, but a serious tool for the Gardaí.

I do think that a few decent Garda vehicles will be a lot better than the current 'run of the mill' stuff that they have used up to now.

bbability

Did they not sell that chopper (squirrel) and buy this one (EC 135)

Lord Nikon

This is how they do in Germany


Mercedes CLS Brabus


US somewhere maybe

Lord Nikon

In Russia

maidhc

The reason the germans police cars are silver is to enhance resale value! So I learned at the MB Museum in Stuttgart!

Lord Nikon

No one going to catch Mad MAx though

crosstownk

bbability wrote:

Did they not sell that chopper (squirrel) and buy this one (EC 135)

I think so - I just threw the other image up as it was one of the first that Google threw at me. You're probably right, because the one I see regularly is a lot bigger than the Squirrel and more like the one in you're attachment.

Mutz

I'd recomend Ford Mondeos and Volvo S40's for marked patrol cars. They're fast enough for Irish roads and safe. They seem to be the only "true" patrol car. Also minimum engine size should be 1.8L or 2 Litre. 1.4 and 1.6 can't take the abuse.

The Toyota Avensis was brought in recently but doesn't seem to hold up very well in handling or gearboxes. The smaller hatchbacks should just be kept for enquiries however when cars go for services, a station will be left short a car and thats why you see these smaller cars responding to calls.

The unmarked guys should have the snazzy stuff but I think X5's are rediculous. A landcruiser is just as good and probably more reliable.

80k miles on patrol cars is very high! 100k miles is usually the retirement stage. They're used by three different drivers, 24 hours a day. Each driver would have different styles of driving and also abuse cars in different ways. Its left up to the drivers to keep the cars clean.

I agree that it is rediculous to have police driving without any formal police training. To have patrol cars with 100k miles on the clock, you can be guaranteed that they've been in crashes, rammed, windows broken, bricked, blood and vomit spilled in them - endless amount of abuse. And they are still standard cars with lights and sirens in them!

In Blanchardstown their Ford transit was rammed head on by a scumbag completely destroying the whole front cab section. That was in November. It was recently delivered back to Blanch, but is "awaiting" a new piston! Would anyone on here drive such a death trap? Don't think so! unfortunately, that's what the Guards are being forced to use.

If they just standardise the fleet it would probably make more sense. The traffic units got new Opel Vectra CD(red)Ti. Now they are fast! Perfect for high speed motorway chases! You'd need high speed units for chasing dublin burglars coming inbound from Kildare and Meath who've stolen Bmw's and Merc's in Burglaries in the early hours of the morning. Otherwise, chases only really involve old jap cars and last a few minutes in housing estates so high spec cars wouldn't be suited.

ballooba

Mutz wrote:

In Blanchardstown their Ford transit was rammed head on by a scumbag completely destroying the whole front cab section. That was in November. It was recently delivered back to Blanch, but is "awaiting" a new piston! Would anyone on here drive such a death trap? Don't think so! unfortunately, that's what the Guards are being forced to use.

The Gardai got sued this week for the wrongful death of a young Garda due to a gearbox failure. Shameful.

I got pulled over (and booked) on on the M1 on Tuesday by an unmarked Subaru Forester. Those things are great for policing that road. I was aware that they had them, but it didn't click when he was behind me. A thoroughly deserved 1 penalty point. My first one.

Victor

R.O.R wrote:

Remember that the cars are free of VRT and VAT so are ridiculously cheap in comparison to the figure's we'd pay. If they run them for 2 years and sell them on (without having to pay VAT or VRT) then there is probably profit to be made.

All government agencies pay VRT and VAT.

They amount of gobsheens around is unbelieveable.

Victor

layke wrote:

Nope. In fact, they are quite underpowered comparing to what a lot of modded car owners spin around in.

But the Garda cars are also 'modded'. And who is to say they are actually telling the truth about what models they are buying?

Sure why do you think they buy Fiats?

Because they are cheap and nobody expects them.

Clare gunner wrote:

First off,can the gardai actually handle high speed persuits in high powerd vechicles?

These vehicles are for serious crime, not general patrolling and traffic duties. The Garda will not persue joyriders, because thats how accidents happen and its often what the joyriders want.

R.O.R

Victor wrote:

All government agencies pay VRT and VAT.

They amount of gobsheens around is unbelieveable.

Having dealt with a government agency regarding vehicles I can state categorically that they do not pay VAT or VRT on new vehicles. What would be the point? It goes from one government agency straight to another so they just save on paperwork.

True what you say about there being a lot of gobsheens around :rolleyes:

layke

Victor wrote:

But the Garda cars are also 'modded'. And who is to say they are actually telling the truth about what models they are buying?
Because they are cheap and nobody expects them.
These vehicles are for serious crime, not general patrolling and traffic duties. The Garda will not persue joyriders, because thats how accidents happen and its often what the joyriders want.

No they have hardened suspention, the rest is bog standard. The 2.0l mondeo puts out 145bhp (if memory serves), a vtec 1.6 civic puts out 160bhp, has better handeling and is lighter. Trust me victor, I have very very very reliable sources for this.

Anyway I can see your point on serious crime but you have to see mine, We can get better for cheaper.

GTC

Victor wrote:

These vehicles are for serious crime, not general patrolling and traffic duties. The Garda will not persue joyriders, because thats how accidents happen and its often what the joyriders want.

True to a certain extent, particularly with regard to the jeep-type cars and the more executive cars. As for the few 3 and 5 series BMWs, many of them have been sent out to Traffic Divisions over the last few months. At Dublin castle, (HQ for DMR Traffic) there are quite a few 5 series and 3 series unmarked cars, as far as I could tell, but I'm not in DMR traffic

MercMad

Okay but the point about buying Land Cruisers instead of X5's is a bit silly. Nobody buys LC's so they would stick out like sore thumbs compared to the amount of X5's, which are significantly faster, that are out there !

GTC

But would still offer a better incentive if you are seeking value for money for the taxpayer, I can see the point of that argument too.

Victor

Eh, what about crash surviveability?

layke wrote:

No they have hardened suspention, the rest is bog standard. The 2.0l mondeo puts out 145bhp (if memory serves), a vtec 1.6 civic puts out 160bhp, has better handeling and is lighter. Trust me victor, I have very very very reliable sources for this.

Sorry, I think I meant the better cars are modded, not the patrol cars.

R.O.R wrote:

Having dealt with a government agency regarding vehicles I can state categorically that they do not pay VAT or VRT on new vehicles. What would be the point? It goes from one government agency straight to another so they just save on paperwork.

Can I assume you are in the motor trade? You might be only seeing part of the transaction, with the vehicle seller receiving a cheque net of tax and a cheque for the tax amount sent direct to the Revenue and the seller getting an acknowledgement. Similar procedures operate throughout government procurement.