Bertie's suicide comment

ergonomics

What do you all think about Bertie's comment about committing suicide? Story here: http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0704/economy.html if you haven't heard.

I think what he said was disgraceful and sickening. No respect for the man whatsoever.

Mr Magnolia

This is what I think of it.

He meant no offence, just a dumb choice of words.

MiniMetro

Can't stand him myself either but it was merely a bad choice of words. If everything I said was analysed in this way I'd be Public Enemy #1 as would most people.

judas101

he was just trying to say there's a lot of moanbags out there.

DoubleJoe7

Of course he meant no offense - he hardly went out with the intention of causing offense.

That doesn't excuse what he said though. It was in very bad taste and is a shocking gaff that I wouldn't expect from the Taoiseach. He was going for a cheap laugh (if you hear the piece rather than read the transcript you get the tone) and was totally inappropriate.

aidan24326

Just an unfortunate choice of words. Senior politicians have every word they say scrutinised and it's inevitable they'll make the odd gaff. In this case what he said was insensitive but he aplogised and admitted it was a bad choice of words so leave it at that.

scojones

Queue the "you idiots voted him back in", "What about the Mahon tribunal?", etc etc remarks.

Mizu_Ger

Mr Magnolia wrote:

This is what I think of it.

He meant no offence, just a dumb choice of words.

I agree, worst part is that we will have to listen to FG and Labour moan about it for the next few weeks.

Spud83

I wouldn't be offended by what he said but I can see how other people could be. But then I would probably call those people over-sensitive.

His point was valid though, people who sit around bitching and moaning dont help so just f**k off. His is His pretty much bulletproof at this stage anyway, and could probably get away with saying a lot worse.

Collie D

MiniMetro wrote:

Can't stand him myself either but it was merely a bad choice of words. If everything I said was analysed in this way I'd be Public Enemy #1 as would most people.

What MiniMetro said...Bertie is hardly the eh world's greatest eh public speaker. Poor choice of words which he later apologised for. Not nearly as bad as DOCTOR Jim McDaid's a few years back.

FlutterinBantam

Agreed and a poor choice of words.

However now the vested interests will try to elevate the issue into a national disaster and milk the thing for all the publicity it is worth.

Get on with it for Gods sake, and get a bit of common sense

Mr Magnolia

DoubleJoe7 wrote:

(if you hear the piece rather than read the transcript you get the tone) and was totally inappropriate.

I did hear it. Refer to reply #1

Thrill

Mr Magnolia wrote:

This is what I think of it.

He meant no offence, just a dumb choice of words.

Thats the way i see it as well. People knew what he meant but some are trying to gain some political mileage from it.

JustCoz

God people will moan about anything :rolleyes:
He obviously didn't intend it to be offensive

griffdaddy

Well what do the fools who voted him back in expect? Did they learn nothing from the Mahon tribunal?

DoubleJoe7

I don't understand this attitude of "he didn't mean any offense". He's apologised for the remark, as he should, and in a sense it should be left at that, but with regard to what happened his "intentions" don't come into it. It was clear he intended to get a laugh, not to offend, but to use suicide to do so was incredibly ill-judged an inappropriate.

Mr Magnolia

DoubleJoe7 wrote:

I don't understand this attitude of "he didn't mean any offense" He's apologised for the remark, as he should, and in a sense it should be left at that, but with regard to what happened his "intentions" don't come into it. It was clear he intended to get a laugh, not to offend, but to use suicide to do so was incredibly ill-judged an inappropriate.

Am I missing something here...

DoubleJoe7

Clearly.

What I am saying is that regardless of what he "meant" to do, the reality is what he did was insensitive and hurtful to many families and friends of people who died through suicide.

"Ah sure let him off he was only having a laugh" doesn't cut it.

I'm glad he apologised and acknowledged that what he did was wrong, instead of adopting the attitude some people here have of shrugging your shoulders and saying "no offense".

Spud83

I bet some people laughed too.

Mr Magnolia

DoubleJoe7 wrote:

"Ah sure let him off he was only having a laugh" doesn't cut it.

I didn't see that attitude in this thread?

DoubleJoe7 wrote:

I'm glad he apologised and acknowledged that what he did was wrong, instead of adopting the attitude some people here have of shrugging your shoulders and saying "no offense".

Can you tell the differance between "no offence" and "no offence intended/meant"

Have a read back over the thread again

biko

We could do with a few less moaners and people that loves to be offended, sickened and disgusted.

DoubleJoe7

Yes some people laughed, but there's always a lower common denominator that can be appealed to, does that make it ok?

And

I wouldn't be offended by what he said but I can see how other people could be. But then I would probably call those people over-sensitive.

Quotes like that, and I could point to a few others, suggest that there is something wrong in being offended by what he said.

Mr Magnolia

I've no idea what your on about now, but I can see where this is going.

Farewell

/unsubscribes

barrett1965

True, a bad choice of words, but I was suprised at the round of applause he got following his unwise comments.

Spud83

DoubleJoe7 wrote:

Yes some people laughed, but there's always a lower common denominator that can be appealed to, does that make it ok?

Yes

Quotes like that, and I could point to a few others, suggest that there is something wrong in being offended by what he said.

I would say it's being a little over sensitive yes. Its a joke, maybe a bad joke but its still a joke.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

DoubleJoe7

alanmurphy83 wrote:

Yes



I would say it's being a little over sensitive yes. Its a joke, maybe a bad joke but its still a joke.

So as long as he gets a laugh it's ok. :rolleyes:

Why not throw out a few Madeline McCann jokes while he's at it so?

Dudess

scojones wrote:

Queue the "you idiots voted him back in", "What about the Mahon tribunal?", etc etc remarks.

griffdaddy wrote:

Well what do the fools who voted him back in expect? Did they learn nothing from the Mahon tribunal?

Although griffdaddy probably read scojones's post. However the lack of a smiley makes me wonder if there's a small chance they he/she didn't.

As for Bertie, hmmmm... I'm not really sure what to think. His point was fair enough but could he not have phrased it differently - without actually using the words "commit suicide"? Like "do away with themselves" or something. Obviously the same thing but (to me anyway) far lower impact. And the fact that he's the leader of this country: poor public speaker or not, spur of the moment or not - not appropriate for a head of state.
But yeah, it's being milked to death. Now people are up in arms because he said "commit" suicide - "to take one's own life is not a crime, suicide was decriminalised in 1993" etc. :rolleyes:

Binomate

I didn't vote for him, but if I had the knowlege he'd come out and say something like this, I probably would have. Good man Bertie.

Spud83

DoubleJoe7 wrote:

So as long as he gets a laugh it's ok. :rolleyes:

Why not throw out a few Madeline McCann jokes while he's at it so?

Cause thats talking specifics, ya dont get a laugh when ya talk about a specific case.

Thrill

He made a comment that some people found offensive. He's apologized ffs. What more do people want him to do? Jump off a cliff?




.

Dudess

thrill wrote:

Jump off a cliff?

Very funny - considering the context.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Jonny Arson

I presume with all the pro-''good aul' man of the people Bertie'' comments that none of you have ever been touched by someone you know of taking their own life.... typical Irish.

Of course it was a poor choice or words but I've seen Ahern rant and rave too much to know that is the genuine mentality behind our beloved Taoiseach. He is a nasty vindicative man.

again Ahern is using outlandish comments to drown out the noises of our impending Economic disaster (oops I mentioned it, I better commit suicide now! :rolleyes: ). The man is attempting to make the Economists and anyone with some sense and rationale over the disgraceful manner in which our economy has been ''managed'' by good aul' Bertie's government as if they're a bunch of manic depressives awaiting with joy for the apocalypse. The reality is Ahern knows the game is up, his legacy of been the greatest taoiseach there ever was in the world will be down the toilet very soon with our property dependent economy and his only option left now is to cry and scream, rant and rave at the doom and gloomers in order to gain more sympathy and con more individuals into the greatest economic swindle there ever was... looks like too many of you have fallen for it.

Spud83

I agree with mario

Dudess

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Cool! First post eh? I believe this is some sort of sinister brainwashing technique. I mean look at the username ffs!

Acid_Violet

1. I hate political correct-ness.

2. Fine Gael and Labour etc. are going to milk it, great.

3. To those who find it offensive (unless they're super-sensitive because of something) get over it!

Spud83

Hey Jonny Arson just because ya didn't get the reaction ya wanted in your Politics thread doesn't mean ya have to drag your political views in here. This was relating to one comment not the state of the Irish economy. F**K off back to that forum.

Jonny Arson

Acid_Violet wrote:

I hate political correct-ness.

His comment wasn't meant to be funny, he was ''attempting'' to debate an important economic issue and he comes out with a comment like that? He's not a stand up comedian FFS. An utterly bizarre comment for any leader of a country to make, how is that going to boosts anyone's confidence that he can run us through tough economic times?

of course it's good aul' Bertie we're talking about and lets just bury our heads in the sand as one certain poster who replied to my post attempts to say using other words...

Acid_Violet

Whatever the context was is irrelevant because people are getting upset about refering to suicide. It's complete political correctness not to be able to facetiously say 'how don't eejits like them who can't find any solutions not just kill themselves because they see all the problems and bitch and moan without trying and doing something themselves'. Oddly enough, it's those kind of losers who're the kind of people to complain at this comment.

Giblet

Jonny Arson wrote:

I presume with all the pro-''good aul' man of the people Bertie'' comments that none of you have ever been touched by someone you know of taking their own life.... typical Irish.

Any more of this "typical irish" in this forum will get you banned forever. I'm sick of it week in and week out. Seriously are you that much of a moron to believe that? "Surely if you have a belief that differs from mine you must be a sheltered person.." etc etc. Are you a child or something? Twice in this thread you put peoples comments down to "ah sure it's aul bertie". For what reason? You must think very highly of yourself to look down on other peoples opinions because they "must be because we're all blind" unlike you of course. I remember your old user name annoying me, care to remind me what it was again?

alanmurphy is right, **** off.

[edit] I see you tried the same thing in Politics. You're a bit immature really.

aidan24326

Acid_Violet wrote:

1. I hate political correct-ness.

2. Fine Gael and Labour etc. are going to milk it, great.

3. To those who find it offensive (unless they're super-sensitive because of something) get over it!

Exactly. Some gimps in this country (and there's plenty) will get 'offended' by just about anything. There are far far worse things happening than Bertie's little ill-chosen remark that nobody seems to get 'offended' about.

Spud83

Jonny Arson wrote:

of course it's good aul' Bertie we're talking about and lets just bury our heads in the sand as one certain poster who replied to my post attempts to say using other words...

Hmm are you talking about me by any chance????;)

I'm not saying we should bury our heads in the sand just don’t understand how one comment can get so much news time over what the rest of the speech was about when he has already apologised for it. And as I already said this is not the forum to talk about the rest of the speech.

A Random Walk

The more substantive question here is why the Taoiseach believes that economic commentators are unpatriotic and worthy only of contempt if they express an opinion which doesn't tie in with the happy clappy school of politics. Do we want to try and build an economy entirely on smoke and mirrors or would we rather have an open debate about our economy and the direction it's heading in.

Spud83

A Random Walk wrote:

Do we want to try and build an economy entirely on smoke and mirrors or would we rather have an open debate about our economy and the direction it's heading in.

yes but have it in the political forum where people who care look.

tbh

Acid_Violet wrote:

2. Fine Gael and Labour etc. are going to milk it, great.

no they are not. You know why? They are smarter than that.

Acid_Violet

tbh wrote:

no they are not. You know why? They are smarter than that.

Um, they already have started doing so..........

tbh

why, what's been said?

Acid_Violet

Was at home at lunch-time and I heard of the comment for the first time. I don't remember the exact words or who said it but definitely some Fine Gael spokesperson said something to the effect of 'this shows insensitivity at the highest level'. I'll hear it later on the news tonight.

Tar.Aldarion

Meh, nothing wrong with what he said. Sigh.

tbh

Acid_Violet wrote:

Was at home at lunch-time and I heard of the comment for the first time. I don't remember the exact words or who said it but definitely some Fine Gael spokesperson said something to the effect of 'this shows insensitivity at the highest level'. I'll hear it later on the news tonight.

yeah.

That was the Fine Gael Spokesman on Health, who made one comment (which a lot of people would agree with). He also just happens to be the president of the Irish Association of Suicidology.

I would have thought "milking it" means that people who normally wouldn't have an opinion on the matter chiming in because they think it's political capital. I really don't think this is an example of that, maybe you do.