How did you loose your faith?

Tim Robbins

Here's an open topic, how did you loose your faith? (I am assuming you had one at one stage).

Personally, when I was very young I was hardened Christian and had the usual Irish Catholic upbringing up until about age 10 or so. I remember going through some of bible in School and the teacher got some awkward questions and would just say "I don't know, when you meet God you can ask him".
In Secondary school it just fell apart. In first year, the Religion teacher got some awkward questions about rationalism that he couldn't answer. He also said that there were claims that some of the gospels had been re-edited and we couldn't know for certain what had not been edited or re-edited by man.
Another time the chaplain came in and explained that there were many religions in the world. When asked how could they all be right, he couldn't answer it. From about age 14 on not many people I knew were going to Mass because they wanted to go only to keep their parents happy. Religion class in school was more about civics than religion as no one was interested in religion.

By about age 15, we were learning evolution and had a reasonable knowledge Science. It seemed a much more reliable way of looking for knowledge and faith for most people was been eroded.

edit: spelt awkward correctly.

pH

In before the spellcheckers!

Zombrex

I rejected the Christian idea of God for as far back as I remember being aware of what the Christian idea of God was (ie as soon as I was introduced to the Bible).

Until my early teenage years I still led onto the vague notion of a "god" being out there, but that went pretty much as soon as I remember seriously thinking about it

Dades

I lost mine on my prom night.

Similar type thread fwiw...
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055087891

PDN

My faith was all bound up, so I declared. "Faith, be loosed!" and so my faith was let loose to annoy others.

aidan24326

I was raised in a typical Irish Catholic background (moderate-ish) but never really felt any strong faith as such. Like Wicknight said I held onto a vague notion of god until maybe my teenage years but once I began to inform/educate myself properly on the reality of the world around me the whole idea of this god that was listening to my prayers just seemed more and more absurd. So for me (and I imagine for most?) it wasn't a eureka moment or anything but just a gradual realisation that I'd had my head filled with sh1te as a child, though thankfully it never really stuck that much even when I was younger.

I actually enjoyed religion class in secondary school as we were mostly taught religion by a psycho nun and it was pure entertainment (also for one year we were taught religion by the sexiest teacher in Ireland so that was good too )

Acid_Violet

I was taught in first year by a monk who founded the school. I wasn't an unbeliever, just liked arguing and never liked people telling me what to do/what to think:p. He once told me he'd have to pray on my behalf after I told him 'I'll be careful but will do whatever I want'.

Whatever he said went as word of god with the teachers. He once claimed we were lifting up our skirts during class and one girl told the principal that we actually weren't and the principal came down on her like a tonne of bricks, 'are you saying I'm a liar? No, worse you're saying that Br. ********* is a liar! How dare you!'. Blah blah blah, the usual 'you're not entitled to your own opinion or your side of the story.'

Zillah

When I was very young I remember having that imaginary friend sort of God. That faded pretty quickly as I got older until I was about 12 or so, then mass was just this thing that my parents demanded I do, like school or the dentist. It was a revelation the day I told them (about 15) that I wasn't going to go anymore, and it turned out they couldn't make me.

From there its been a gradual process of becoming more and more hardline atheist. I'm seeing the damage religion and religious thinking does in the world around me day by day. By now the entire thing is a farce. A horrible, nightmarish farce.

Red Hand

Became interested in archaeology and paleonthology (I was a nerdy child:)) from a very young age, and learned alot about evolution from the books I bought. I did try to believe, went to mass, prayed, went through all the Catholic stuff, but even by my first holy communion, I was a bit agnostic.

I remember going to, like my second confession (it was drilled into us that we had to go every 6? months), and having literally nothing to confess, so I was there making stuff up in front of the priest. So, I felt it was a bit of a joke at that stage-must have ben 8 or 9.

daveirl

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Tim Robbins

daveirl wrote:

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Interesting Dave, you know, when Munster beat Leinster in the Semi last year, I started to believe in Satan:) but I knew for certain there was no God.

I think what this survey shows is that teachers, parents etc. can say whatever they want to a kid under 10 and they kid will believe it.

So far no-one has changed their stance w.r.t. the God question between the ages of 0 and 10.

Asiaprod

Stayed a Catholic till 30. Met a Buddhist I really respected and wanted to be like. Practiced both paths till I decided that that was a stupid act. Made the choice to loose the God aspect, fearing being struck by lightning:) . When this did not happen, I knew I had made the right choice. Finally lost all respect for the Vatican and the church it stood for when I discovered a scientific paper that had been produced debunking the bones of St Peters found under the high alter in the vatican, and an expose on how the vatican had engineered the belief that these were indeed the bones of the said individual.

Tim Robbins

Asiaprod wrote:

Stayed a Catholic till 30. Met a Buddhist I really respected and wanted to be like. Practiced both paths till I decided that that was a stupid act. Made the choice to loose the God aspect, fearing being struck by lightning:) . When this did not happen, I knew I had made the right choice. Finally lost all respect for the Vatican and the church it stood for when I discovered a scientific paper that had been produced debunking the bones of St Peters found under the high alter in the vatican, and an expose on how the vatican had engineered the belief that these were indeed the bones of the said individual.

It's interesting that most (if not all) of us come from a RC background.
It would be interesting to hear some stories from reformed Churches or from other faiths.

rockbeer

I remember in primary school we had to pray as a class every day before going home. One day I asked the teacher what the point of it was as god never answered me.

I remember her reply quite clearly - she said 'god sort of puts the answers into your head'. Knowing full well that he did no such thing for me, this encounter taught me two important lessons: one, that god didn't talk to me personally, whatever he might do with regard to other people, and two, that the teacher obviously didn't have a clue what she was talking about.

I must have been about seven or eight, and from that day on I was highly sceptical about anything adults told me about religion. However I can't say I lost my faith that day as I'm not sure I had any beforehand - I was fortunate enough to be brought up by atheist parents who encouraged me to question, examine the evidence and draw my own conclusions about things.

They never shoved their atheism down my throat. In fact they were extremely tolerant, even when I went off to join a local sunday bible class, although they knew as well as I did that the only reason for me joining up was because, hapless as I was at sports, I knew I stood a decent chance of getting a game in their soccer team

robindch

Asiaprod wrote:

when I discovered a scientific paper that had been produced debunking the bones of St Peters found under the high alter in the vatican, and an expose on how the vatican had engineered the belief that these were indeed the bones of the said individual.

Engineering beliefs -- my favourite topic! Any chance of a link to this?

Nehpets

When I thought about it. Around 13, stopped going mass then too. Still a RC "officially". Not a full blown atheist.. but I don't really think about religion at all.

daveirl

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Tim Robbins

daveirl wrote:

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What about those 1 Millions protestants some of whom have represented Ireland well in the Irish Rugby team?

Seriously, I know that there is a major bias in boards.ie to
1. Blokes
2. People who work in IT
3. People in Dublin

My point was that it would be interesting to hear opinions of x - C.O.I., Presbyterian etc.
RC seem to have a strict authoritarian flavour to it which puts a lot of people off irrespect of the theism / atheism arguments.

Dades

1. Blokes - CHECK
2. People who work in IT - CHECK
3. People in Dublin - CHECK

Dammit you're right!

pinksoir

Well I was brought up in the Church of Ireland. I was in St.Patricks Cathedral Choir until I was sixteen. I always enjoyed the musical aspect more than the religious one though. I think the Dean of St. Patrick's is gay actually, as were a few of the choir members. Which shows how much more progressive the COI is... maybe.

Lost my faith through studying philosophy and reading up on science. It's amazing how many theists lose their faith by deciding to educate themselves. I mean, I always had my suspicions, and went through a period of believing, then not believing whilst studying philosophy, especially when faced with arguments for and against the existence of God. But ultimately the arguments against His existence far outweigh those for it. That's not the only reason I'm convinced there isn't a God, but I think that was the starting point.

After I finished my degree I took a keen interest in science, and thats where I am now... I love learning, and like Douglas Adams so nicely put it; "I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day!"

barrett1965

I gave up my faith in my early twenties, but I was losing it long before that. I would describe myself as a theist at the moment. I can't remember why I gave-up my faith at the time though.

The Bollox

I started to lose my faith when I was about 15, more because I couldn't be arsed going to mass than anything else. But the final nail was put in the coffin when I read about what scientologists believe in, laughed myself silly, and then thought about what the christian beliefs are and started laughing again

redfacedbear

I began having doubts at 14ish. I was brought up in a RC house (kind of - my father is an Atheist but didn't want to force his own non-beliefs on us so insisted that we practice)

As I learned more about the church's teachings on things like Transubstantiation, Papal Infallibility, Sexual Morality, the status of Women and so on I became more and more unwilling to subscribe to their beliefs. This in turn led to doubts about the Christian God being the right one and eventually to doubts about any God existing.

By 16 I was describing myself as Agnostic and by 18 as an Atheist. Since about the age of 26ish my Atheism has been rising in fervour - to the point now that the Yop ad showing the cavemen being chased by dinosaurs raises my ire :eek: - I'm worried that it may be some sort of subliminal propaganda from the Creationists

Asiaprod

robindch wrote:

Engineering beliefs -- my favourite topic! Any chance of a link to this?

http://biblelight.net/peters-jerusalem-tomb.htm
http://sxws.com/charis/relics10.htm
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/bede-book3.html
http://www.hope-of-israel.org/1stcent.htm
http://www.hissheep.org/catholic/the_bones_of_peter.html

I could post a hundred more links, its just not worth it. One gets the picture.

Tar.Aldarion

Never had one. 'Rejected' RC when I was 8, outright.

layke

I come from a proddy background with a very religious grandmother. Not saying there's a whle lot of difference in the 2 churches anyway.

Tbh the poor oul gal just didn't understand the modern world and trying to explain that there was no such thing as a super being living in the clouds just fell on Deaf ears so i'd pay lip service to a church until I hit 12(ish).

Firstly it just started out by me as a child hiding to avoid church, I mean lets face the facts, it's probably going to be the most boring hour you'll spend that week singing those awful repetative psalms over and over. Then there was Sunday school when I was younger. It sucked big time, what child wants to go to school on a Sunday?

So I would say in retrospect the church killed any interest I had in religion long before I began to question it though education.

UU

I was always a hardened sceptic who continuously questions the doctrines of the RC Church. I was told questioning faith is wrong and God doesn't like that. What a load of old shït!!!

Well, I thought about that and I decided if I were to remain Catholic, maybe I ought to read the Bible. Well, after reading reading it, it occured to me that it is a ridulous book to put one's faith in. God is nasty, cruel, dangerous, rascist, homophobic... consult Richard Dawkins, he has the precise words!!! Lol!!! I became agnostic then. I then went on to read the Qur'an which I don't regret reading. Well, that was nastier than the Bible and I was definately atheist after reading that. I got interested a lot in science and imo I think both religion and science are very much incompatible. I began reading a lot about different religions and philosophies. As a subject, I find religion to be very interesting but I wouldn't put my faith into anything unstable like God or an afterlife. I'm atheist but not closed-minded. If solid evidence came along tomorrow to support the existence of a god, I'd be open to it.

So what made me atheist - taking the time to study religion!

robindch

Well, growing up in Kerry in the 70's, there was little to suggest that there was any option in life other than being a church-going catholic. Many people who should have known better said nothing, and those that didn't know better said a lot and most of that was unpleasant. I'd imagine it would be useful for today's catholics to drift back say forty years to see for themselves what it was like. Or they could rent 'The Rocky Road to Dublin' for a black-and-white glimpse of the 60's in Ireland.

However, I left Kerry and began travelling and reading. Slow layer by slow layer, the religious veneer peeled off -- first gone was catholic church-going, then from respect for the vatican's aims to suspicion of all its activities, then to suspicion of all religious activities and deep misgivings concerning the sloppy and wishful thinking that props the whole lot up.

Since then, it's been interesting to track how religion operates, how it propagates and how it continually evolves, very often rapidly and in interesting ways. Which is my problem with the current crop of Dawkins, Hitchens and Dennett, etc: while their contempt for religion is understandable, they fail to understand, or at least to communicate, how subtly devious religion is and how it is able to subvert incautious minds.

Tim Robbins

robindch wrote:

Since then, it's been interesting to track how religion operates, how it propagates and how it continually evolves, very often rapidly and in interesting ways. Which is my problem with the current crop of Dawkins, Hitchens and Dennett, etc: while their contempt for religion is understandable, they fail to understand, or at least to communicate, how subtly devious religion is and how it is able to subvert incautious minds.

Have you read 'Breaking the Spell' by Dennet? In that book he is very much trying to track how religion is developed, propagated etc in society?
It's not bad, I think it tries to argue in abstract terms and is too politically correct in some of his points.

5uspect

Its often said that most people are Christians etc because they're parent were.
I wonder how many people are atheists or agnostics because they're parents were Christians and then realsed how silly it was?

I think that the main mood I get from this thead.

Dades

5uspect wrote:

I wonder how many people are atheists or agnostics because they're parents were Christians and then realsed how silly it was?

I thought it was more people were non-believers despite their parents being Christian.
Meh - same thing I think!

_Kaiser_

I voted "never had one" as when we were growing up, my mother believed that we should be free to choose our own religion (if any) when we were old enough to do so, rather than be "force fed" the Catholic Church's view on things in school.

Ultimately however, religion hasn't played any part in my (or my immediate family's) life. I'm quite happy as I am and don't feel that I'm missing anything from a moral or spiritual standpoint, but all that said I respect anyone else's right to believe if they get something out of it.

Sangre

Tim Robbins wrote:

What about those 1 Millions protestants some of whom have represented Ireland well in the Irish Rugby team?

Seriously, I know that there is a major bias in boards.ie to
1. Blokes
2. People who work in IT
3. People in Dublin

My point was that it would be interesting to hear opinions of x - C.O.I., Presbyterian etc.
RC seem to have a strict authoritarian flavour to it which puts a lot of people off irrespect of the theism / atheism arguments.

His stats refer to the Republic and not Ireland as a whole. Your reference to the Irish rugby team is a bit silly considering it is a whole island sport.

5uspect

The Atheist wrote:

I thought it was more people were non-believers despite their parents being Christian.
Meh - same thing I think!

yeah pretty much. I'm wondering is there a religion that is effectively immune to apostasy and is Christianity particularly prone to it.

For example it seems that if you're born into a Muslim family in certain countries you're not likely give up your religion (probably because of the shame or fear of death) but if you're born into a Christian family in liberal Europe then its likely that you will probably not be bothered by religion. Tho being a Christian in America is almost akin to being patriotic.

Cake Fiend

Never had it to lose.

Hagar

I was praying when I realised you can get put away for talking to yourself.

Tim Robbins

Sangre wrote:

His stats refer to the Republic and not Ireland as a whole. Your reference to the Irish rugby team is a bit silly considering it is a whole island sport.

It was said in jest. Why should his stats refer only to the Republic?
If we can do whole island for Rugby let's to the same for boards.ie

Catsmokinpot

i was about 8 at the time, i remember seeing my mother putting all the "presents from santa" under the tree so and realised that it was a load of bullsh1t so then i thought to myself if thats not real then what else is not real?

robindch

Tim Robbins wrote:

Have you read 'Breaking the Spell' by Dennet? In that book he is very much trying to track how religion is developed, propagated etc in society? It's not bad, I think it tries to argue in abstract terms and is too politically correct in some of his points.

Yes, I agree. He also waffles too much, and drifts from topic to topic with little obvious order. Hitchens has direction but little interest in understanding *why* what's arisen has arisen.

Tim Robbins

robindch wrote:

Yes, I agree. He also waffles too much, and drifts from topic to topic with little obvious order. Hitchens has direction but little interest in understanding *why* what's arisen has arisen.

I thought Hitchens only wanted to fire insults and use his rhetorical skills and his turn of phrase ability. He didn't really have any good well developed arguments.

I think Dawkins' 'God Delusion' has the edge on all of them. Even though I didn't agree with all of it, the points are well made and force you to either agree or disagree. It slighly edges Harris' 'End of Faith'.
Although "Why I am not Christian" was probably the most ground breaking and innovative.

theprop

Up until the age of ten or eleven, we had a real blood and guts priest in my local church. He'd give sermons that would make you want to go out and stone the heathens. The man had a fantastic way with words and a brilliant delivery. So he really got me hooked.

Then we had a more modern priest, and I started to think for myself about the whole thing. Eventually, coming into fifth or sixth year, I realised that organised religion's purpose is to prevent freedom of thought. When so many answers are given along the lines of 'it's one of God's mysteries' or 'you must have faith, things will be better when you're dead' (one of my all time favourites), I started to realise that the only thing blind faith brings is blissful ignorance.Eventually my faith in any organised religion went to an apparently better place.

Splendour

Sorry to intrude, but it seems to me this thread should be re-named; 'When did you lose your religion' rather than faith.

I haven't seen one poster here yet who professes ever having any kind of faith.

Asiaprod

Splendour wrote:

Sorry to intrude, but it seems to me this thread should be re-named; 'When did you lose your religion' rather than faith.

I haven't seen one poster here yet who professes ever having any kind of faith.

I think you need to re-read some posts:) . I said I was an RC for 30 years. I had faith, I believed. Then I stopped.

Red Hand

Splendour wrote:

Sorry to intrude, but it seems to me this thread should be re-named; 'When did you lose your religion' rather than faith.

I haven't seen one poster here yet who professes ever having any kind of faith.

TBH I think that many people who follow a religion are doing so out of tradition and routine rather than any real sense of faith, or belief.

Tar.Aldarion

I think the title should be changed to 'When did you lose your faith?'.

Zombrex

i think the how is more interesting than the when. If I said 1996 to people would that mean anything?

Tim Robbins

Splendour wrote:

Sorry to intrude, but it seems to me this thread should be re-named; 'When did you lose your religion' rather than faith.

I haven't seen one poster here yet who professes ever having any kind of faith.

why not start a thread in the Christianity forum when do you loose your atheism? We are born atheist.
I think you find most people would answer between the ages 0-10, which would be really interesting since most people here didn't loose their faith until after 10.
This would support my hypotheisis that you make a child up to the age of 10 believe anything.
My overall hypotheisis is that faith is hammered into your unconcious mind, via your concious mind and once it is lodged there it can't be removed for some people.

PDN

Tim Robbins wrote:

why not start a thread in the Christianity forum when do you loose your atheism? We are born atheist.
I think you find most people would answer between the ages 0-10, which would be really interesting since most people here didn't loose their faith until after 10.
This would support my hypotheisis that you make a child up to the age of 10 believe anything.
My overall hypotheisis is that faith is hammered into your unconcious mind, via your concious mind and once it is lodged there it can't be removed for some people.

I lost my atheism when I was 18 and really began to think seriously about life for myself instead of just swallowing what others had taught me.

Red Hand

Tim Robbins wrote:

why not start a thread in the Christianity forum when do you loose your atheism? We are born atheist.
I think you find most people would answer between the ages 0-10, which would be really interesting since most people here didn't loose their faith until after 10.
This would support my hypotheisis that you make a child up to the age of 10 believe anything.
My overall hypotheisis is that faith is hammered into your unconcious mind, via your concious mind and once it is lodged there it can't be removed for some people.

I don't know about being born atheist. I think humans are born with a curiosity to explain things and find solutions. Unfortunately, when trying to explain the world, humans have one hell of a brain and imagination, and ignorant of electricity, will explain lightening happening as a big bearded man in the sky throwing a hammer. Mix that in with delusions brought about by mental illness, and hallucinogens, and suddenly, you got people thinking all sorts of things about prophets and stuff.

Tar.Aldarion

You can be taught atheism? :P
Yeah Jeremiah, we are all born atheist, you can't be a christian etc at birth, you have no knowledge like that.

Red Hand

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

You can be taught atheism? :P
Yeah Jeremiah, we are all born atheist, you can't be a christian etc at birth, you have no knowledge like that.

Ha, I don't know. How do know what a baby thinks, Tar? Heaven for him or her could be swimming in a warm wonderful hazy land, where you didn't have to be uncomfortable breathing, coughing, sniffling, with a belly that either gets too full or too empty or too gassy; and life is especially hard with that rash on your bottom that just won't stop itching-bloody soggy diaper...:p

The face that looks down on you in your crib? Who the hell is that?

OK, I probably agree with not being born with a particular religion, but maybe there is a switch which is all too easily flicked to allow us to believe in something.