Lands Preserved

jackieg

This might sound stupid to you guys but im new to this and im a townie.
Ijust got a shot gun and i've been out and about and i've seen this sign in a few places and wondered what it means.
***** GUN CLUB LANDS PRESERVED.
Thanks.

rrpc

It means a Gun Club has shooting rights over the land in question and that only shooting in season is allowed in order to preserve the wildlife stocks. It also means that only members of the Gun Club have the right to shoot on the land.

bunny shooter

The land concerned is controlled, as far as shooting etc is concerned by the gun club, probably the local one. keep out unless you are a member of the gun club !!!! Landowner has probably given permission to gun club so don't bother to approach him/her. Land preserved with no gun club means NO SHOOTING ETC AT ALL !!!!!!!!!!!

civdef

Landowner has probably given permission to gun club so don't bother to approach him/her.

There's nothing stopping a landowner giving a non-club member permission to shoot on their land too.

johngalway

civdef wrote:

There's nothing stopping a landowner giving a non-club member permission to shoot on their land too.

Totally agree with the above.

Ask anyway, if you're interested in that bit of land that is.

Keelan

johngalway wrote:

Totally agree with the above.

Ask anyway, if you're interested in that bit of land that is.

Agree, Bs about not going on the land, ask away, if the farmer says shoot away, nowt can be done, this mafia aproach to'WE OWN ALL SHOOTING' ect, will only end up with our sport getting taken away from us.:rolleyes:

jackieg

Thanks i thought it was something like that, did'nt want to look like a thicko to the locals.
Thanks again.

Vegeta

jackieg wrote:

Thanks i thought it was something like that, did'nt want to look like a thicko to the locals.
Thanks again.

its always safer to ask first when it comes to anything to do with shooting

fits

We're plagued with people shooting on our land every year and cutting/damaging fences. It is incredibly annoying.

Land Preserved means 'no shooting on this land'

bunny shooter

Club/group have got permission from landowner to put up sign, landowner has agreed to their shooting over land. Club/group have provided proof of insurance etc or landowner would be crazy to allow them shoot in first place !

The club have probably agreed to "police" the shooting of the land for the landowner, taking away responsiblity from him/her. Then some muppet who can't be arsed to join the club goes up to the house and asks for permission to shoot over the land. Landowners give clubs permission to shoot over their land to keep out poachers !!!!!!!! Clubs shoot the vermin and stock game onto the land and them some freeloader asks for permission to shoot there !

Great advise to a new shooter.......

My advice either join club or shoot elsewhere. If you get landowners permission you will not be popular with local club either. Might mean a refusal on a future membership application !

Join the gun club and you can shoot there and you won't have to hassle the landowner !!!!!!!!!!!!

Banjax

It's the landowners perogative, not the clubs. And no landowner I know, myself included, would dream of ceding the rights and responsibilities of any aspect of land ownership.

Amazing as it may sound, I have neighbours who have been asked to stop shooting on thier own land by local club members who didn't know who they were talking to. And in rather rude terms as well.

The only poaching that goes on these days (around these parts) is travellers coursing hares. And I've yet to see any gun club member appear to tell them to get out. And you know I wouldn't expect them to either, the gamekeeping aspect of gunclubs is a bit of a myth in my opinion anyway.
There is no legal standing that allows a gunclub member any right to tell anyone to leave land that they do not actually own.

And as for vermin shooting, most club members wouldn't raise the gun at anything other than game in season, the last time I saw a gunclub run a vermin shoot was many many years ago. Ask them to get rid of crows picking at bale plastic or rooting up new sown rapeseed and you might get some fellow driving up in his jeep and giving them two barrels out the window, and thats all.

Clare gunner

Be a brave man who would tell travellers or poachers to shift it these days!

BTW WHEN was the last case anyone can remember here that a gun club,gamekeeper/warden etc sucessfully prosecuted anyone for shooting a pheasent etc on their land??It is hard enough with deer to get a prosecution,not to mind game birds.Different story if there are gangs cleaning out a roost or release pen.But when was the last time anyone heard of that???

johngalway

Banjax wrote:

And as for vermin shooting, most club members wouldn't raise the gun at anything other than game in season, the last time I saw a gunclub run a vermin shoot was many many years ago. Ask them to get rid of crows picking at bale plastic or rooting up new sown rapeseed and you might get some fellow driving up in his jeep and giving them two barrels out the window, and thats all.

Unless the club owns the land then tough titty. If the landowner gives the OK then away you go without fear or favour owed to any man besides said owner and the cops.

I can only speak of the gunclub local to me but, what Banjax has posted would be representative of them. The one and only vermin shoot I know of that they did, I was a member at the time (but I was away for the vermin shoot), around 20 odd got 4 crows between them. I've lost count of the number of crows I've shot, going to trap properly this year and guess what I get nothing out of it. I do it for myself.

Never heard of one of them, besides one who's like me kinda does his own thing with landowners permish, ever ever stirring away from the fire to look for a fox nevermind shoot it.

The club here has signs up all over the place :rolleyes: They might go out to shoot a phesant in season, if the weathers good. But vermin? HA!

You're an independent shooter, knock on any door you like and bow down to no club Join if you like but if not remember that you owe them nothing It's the landowner who is key, if ya get his OK respect it and you'll have that bit of ground for a long time.

Terrier

Long gone are the days when all Gun Club members activity taking part in shooting, my club consists of about 30 members, off which about 5-10 are active. It's a simple case of not enough young people been brought into the club or the sport, something the NARGC needs to look at going forward . But even non active members pay membership fees to the club !! And without these fees I lot of investment would not be possible.

The last 3 years I have activity pushed our club in a forward direction ..
1. Actually getting to know more farmers, discussing what we do, insurance and countryside issues.. This has paid off big time with a least a phone call a week either asking to remove foxes or grey and magpies around lambs or bale plastic, and it normally only takes one day which insures other farmers will hear about it.
2. Activity pursuing vermin - purchased 6 Larsen traps, 10 mink traps, lamping, ferreting!
3. Organised Fox Shoots - even on the dirty cold nov & dec mornings
4. Organised Duck Shoots
5. Pheasant Breeding \ Release program - from nothing to buying in 30 adults over the last 3 years to this year building a pen and rearing 100 poults (hopefully 200 plus next year)

A lot of this would not have been accomplished without the club, building a pen, buying traps would have been a huge outlay for my persons finances!
Also without NARGC membership discounts for poults and vermin equipment would also not be possible.

Clubs can be a big help for someone that has the time and passion … the club structure within our sport should not be written off!!

**Also last weekend a group of Travellers met me while out hare coursing, two calls to fellow members and within 5 mins you have 4 members and 3 vehicles … few strong words and they were gone.. Local Stg given the registration and description in case of other issues.

Keelan

Banjax wrote:

It's the landowners perogative, not the clubs. And no landowner I know, myself included, would dream of ceding the rights and responsibilities of any aspect of land ownership.

Amazing as it may sound, I have neighbours who have been asked to stop shooting on thier own land by local club members who didn't know who they were talking to. And in rather rude terms as well.

The only poaching that goes on these days (around these parts) is travellers coursing hares. And I've yet to see any gun club member appear to tell them to get out. And you know I wouldn't expect them to either, the gamekeeping aspect of gunclubs is a bit of a myth in my opinion anyway.
There is no legal standing that allows a gunclub member any right to tell anyone to leave land that they do not actually own.

And as for vermin shooting, most club members wouldn't raise the gun at anything other than game in season, the last time I saw a gunclub run a vermin shoot was many many years ago. Ask them to get rid of crows picking at bale plastic or rooting up new sown rapeseed and you might get some fellow driving up in his jeep and giving them two barrels out the window, and thats all.

Agree, 110%.

Keelan.

Keelan

johngalway wrote:

Unless the club owns the land then tough titty. If the landowner gives the OK then away you go without fear or favour owed to any man besides said owner and the cops.

I can only speak of the gunclub local to me but, what Banjax has posted would be representative of them. The one and only vermin shoot I know of that they did, I was a member at the time (but I was away for the vermin shoot), around 20 odd got 4 crows between them. I've lost count of the number of crows I've shot, going to trap properly this year and guess what I get nothing out of it. I do it for myself.

Never heard of one of them, besides one who's like me kinda does his own thing with landowners permish, ever ever stirring away from the fire to look for a fox nevermind shoot it.

The club here has signs up all over the place :rolleyes: They might go out to shoot a phesant in season, if the weathers good. But vermin? HA!

You're an independent shooter, knock on any door you like and bow down to no club Join if you like but if not remember that you owe them nothing It's the landowner who is key, if ya get his OK respect it and you'll have that bit of ground for a long time.

Well said John and coming from a land owner yourself, you should know,;)
You have, in my books, have culled more greys and foxes in the last year, then most have done in a lifetime on here.:D

Keep up the good work.

Keelan.;)

bunny shooter

well said terrier ! My local club is the same. We help not exploit landowners generosity.

Clubs are only as good as their members.

Those whinging gits here should join one and change it instead of running them down.

It is going to get harder to get licences for firearms. Locally to me the super wants everyone in the local game club or range, even landowners. maybe not legal but his discretion will be legal next month. Check out the CJB.

the hunter

bunny shooter wrote:

Those whinging gits here should join one and change it instead of running them down.
.

no need for that bunny shooter its because the clubs are very closed/clanish that people can't/not allowed join clubs so its not just people whinging .....:mad:

Banjax

Bunny

I'm only relating the current state of affairs as relates to my area, as is everyone else. You may well be part of a great club that's involved in it's community and works hard with the people good enough to allow them access to land. But it's that permission which allows clubs to exist. Without it, clubs would not have enough land to be worth bothering with.

There is nobody whinging, git or otherwise, just differing views being expressed. You can express yours without recourse to insult I'm sure.

As for the CJB, a super's discretion has to be based on legal and practical principles, and not allowing landowners to shoot on lands owned by them falls into neither catagory.

There is room for gunclubs and for people who for whatever reason are not part of a club. I've a lot of time for the NARGC, but I can trust my own instincts as to who I allow hunt over my land, thanks very much.

Keelan

the hunter wrote:

no need for that bunny shooter its because the clubs are very closed/clanish that people can't/not allowed join clubs so its not just people whinging .....:mad:

EXACTLY

bunny shooter

Banjax wrote:

As for the CJB, a super's discretion has to be based on legal and practical principles, and not allowing landowners to shoot on lands owned by them falls into neither catagory.

Law is changed they have complete discretion on terms now. They were bad enough before what will it be like now.......

Our man in Havana

the hunter wrote:

no need for that bunny shooter its because the clubs are very closed/clanish that people can't/not allowed join clubs so its not just people whinging .....:mad:

Agreed 110%. Some of the clubs in my area are little cliques where no blowins/rifle owners need apply.

BryanL

aren't all clubs cliques?

bunny shooter

they're only cliques if you're not in it ?

Banjax

There are a lot of clubs that consist, basically, of geriatrics and sons of said geriatrics. Not that I have anything against geriatrics, we're all on the way there hopefully.

What some of the other posters say here is very true, getting membership is very difficult, there is no set criteria and approval is arbitrary at best, biased and parochial at worst. And in this area at least, those clubs have suffered. Membership is down and the amount of land they have to hunt over is down as well.

Bunny and Terrier appear to be part of exceptional clubs, but in my experience at least, there are many more clubs that are the opposite.

bunny shooter

Banjax,

I am a member of two NARGC affiliated clubs and both are open to new members as long as you are known to at least two people within the club and have not carried on as some of the posters here are recommending. Generally if you live within the club area, have no "previous" then you have an automatic right to join as per NARGC rules as far as I'm aware, maybe I'm wrong ???

Our man in Havana

How come some clubs have a no rifle policy? I must get on to the NARGC about that.

Banjax

Bunny

You're the guy who's a member of not one, but two clubs, so why should I know the rules any better than you?
And as for having "previous", whatever that may be, you and I know that there are any number of reasons can be given to an applicant to fob him or her off: You're just outside our boundaries, you haven't been shooting long enough, you only have a rifle and rifles are deadly dangerous, we're full for the next few years, you're bringing no land with you, so on and so forth.

Automatic right? The intent might be there, but in practice that is not the case.

Your two clubs are excepted of course...

Terrier

Clubs that take the approach that only members who can benefit the club or are relations of exiting members will find out over the next decade or so how this policy with see the demise of there clubs!
My own club was like that for a time, I myself "was a blow in" had no land and only for the persistent of two friends who were members I would still be looking for membership..
When I joined the club membership had fallin from 49 to just 16!
I went to every monthly meeting for two years listen to a lot of crap and infighting before I was put forward to the committee as Treasurer, my mate took the Chairman position and it was at this point we decide we needed to pull the club forward.
Since then we have implemented a

- New constitution and Rules (7 pages long very clear and very precise!)
- A clear membership application process..
- Outside membership - People from outside club boundries
- New Member Information pack - this is our latest project, set up to help new members, includes constitution, rules, firearm safety, beating procedures, contact and we are working on OSI maps of all club lands and land owners names..
- Vermin Control Policy
- Pheasant Release Program (Our first year)
- Annual Club Social

The to do list..
- Charity Clay Shoot
- Increase pheasant release program to 200 birds per year.

Been a 4 year process but we are getting new membership from both local and non-local … about 30 members in all.. It would want to be something very serious for someone not to get membership, we have members who just hunt pheasant & ducks, some who just do clay shooting, some just hunt deer and one who is a target shooter.. To me the term "Gun Club" does not limit it to shotgun game shooting only.

Keelan & JohnGalway if ye only lived near me.. i've seen the damage ye boys do to vermin and ye would be a fantastic addition to any club..

Our man in Havana

Fair play to ya Terrier. It is a pity the local clubs around these parts are not more progressive like yours.

johngalway

Terrier wrote:

Keelan & JohnGalway if ye only lived near me.. i've seen the damage ye boys do to vermin and ye would be a fantastic addition to any club..

Sounds like a proper set up alright Terrier, I've seen some of your work elsewhere :cool:

I think there's a lad in this thread bitching about my bitching, taking it kinda personal like. Like I said I was talking about my local club and independent shooters. In essence what he's (sorry haven't gone back looking for a name) saying is the mirror of what I am, so if yer calling me anything watch out where the other 4 fingers are pointing. That's all I got to say on that subject

Keelan

johngalway wrote:

Sounds like a proper set up alright Terrier, I've seen some of your work elsewhere :cool:

I think there's a lad in this thread bitching about my bitching, taking it kinda personal like. Like I said I was talking about my local club and independent shooters. In essence what he's (sorry haven't gone back looking for a name) saying is the mirror of what I am, so if yer calling me anything watch out where the other 4 fingers are pointing. That's all I got to say on that subject

Well said John.
Terrier, thanks for the kind comments.:)

Keelan.

bunny shooter

Bond-007 wrote:

How come some clubs have a no rifle policy? I must get on to the NARGC about that.

The clubs I'm in actively promote rifle use for rabbits and foxes

bunny shooter

Banjax,

"previous" includes but is not limited to shooting gun club preserves while not a member of the club, shooting over preserved club land/s, shooting stocked ponds, upsetting landowners ..............

Do they reckon shotguns aren't dangerous at all ?

bunny shooter

Terrier wrote:

Clubs that take the approach that only members who can benefit the club or are relations of exiting members will find out over the next decade or so how this policy with see the demise of there clubs!
My own club was like that for a time, I myself "was a blow in" had no land and only for the persistent of two friends who were members I would still be looking for membership..
When I joined the club membership had fallin from 49 to just 16!
I went to every monthly meeting for two years listen to a lot of crap and infighting before I was put forward to the committee as Treasurer, my mate took the Chairman position and it was at this point we decide we needed to pull the club forward.
Since then we have implemented a

- New constitution and Rules (7 pages long very clear and very precise!)
- A clear membership application process..
- Outside membership - People from outside club boundries
- New Member Information pack - this is our latest project, set up to help new members, includes constitution, rules, firearm safety, beating procedures, contact and we are working on OSI maps of all club lands and land owners names..
- Vermin Control Policy
- Pheasant Release Program (Our first year)
- Annual Club Social

The to do list..
- Charity Clay Shoot
- Increase pheasant release program to 200 birds per year.

Been a 4 year process but we are getting new membership from both local and non-local … about 30 members in all.. It would want to be something very serious for someone not to get membership, we have members who just hunt pheasant & ducks, some who just do clay shooting, some just hunt deer and one who is a target shooter.. To me the term "Gun Club" does not limit it to shotgun game shooting only.

Keelan & JohnGalway if ye only lived near me.. i've seen the damage ye boys do to vermin and ye would be a fantastic addition to any club..

This is what a club is meant to be !!!!!

bunny shooter

Keelan wrote:

Well said John.
Terrier, thanks for the kind comments.:)

Keelan.

Sounds like clubs aren't the only place cliques exist !

Banjax

Bunny

Some people don't want to be in a club, and some people can't, even though they want to.

Despite what you've read here, despite the experiences people have related to you, you don't seem to want to accept either as fact.

Other than your club(s), what do you accept?

bunny shooter

Banjax wrote:

Bunny

Some people don't want to be in a club, and some people can't, even though they want to.

Despite what you've read here, despite the experiences people have related to you, you don't seem to want to accept either as fact.

Other than your club(s), what do you accept?

I accept that the world is round (pobably, well nobody has fallen off yet ?), I need to win the Lotto, I need more gun licences,

Facts, interpertations of opinions portrayed as the truth.......in order to convince another that my opinion is the right one.

Voltaire said, I shall paraphrase, can't remember exact quote, I might not agree with you're opinion, but I will defend to the bitter end you're right to it

"Marriage is an institution, but who wants to live in an institution" ........ Groucho Marx

Now that is a fact !

Banjax

Well, I suppose when you have nothing of substance to say for yourself, you can always go butchering the words of others.

What is kind of amusing, is your use of Voltaire's phrase. It's essentially a verbalisation of the freedom of choice and the need to defend it.

Your previous posts show a smug anticipation of the further degradation of the freedom to choose. The only thing you are interested in defending is your club.

jaycee

Banjax wrote:

Well, I suppose when you have nothing of substance to say for yourself, you can always go butchering the words of others.

What is kind of amusing, is your use of Voltaire's phrase. It's essentially a verbalisation of the freedom of choice and the need to defend it.

Your previous posts show a smug anticipation of the further degradation of the freedom to choose. The only thing you are interested in defending is your club.

Lads and ladies ,

Naturally the final say as to who shoots on a section of land rests with the landowner , or more accurately the controller of the shooting rights there.
It is possible to lease those rights from the landowner , perhaps for a token fee. The fact that it generally not done here is a reflection of the goodwill and cooperation that usually exists between the local community , the landowner and the shooting club.

Given the way life is changing in Ireland it may become necessary for clubs to try to make arrangements like that.

The vast majority of shooting clubs that I'm aware of are made up of ordinary decent people who come together out of a common interest to improve the shooting facilitys in their area. I've encountered no evidence of snobbish or elitist behavior and attitudes , on the contrary they are usually open to new shooters and members.

Existing clubs and their members can sometimes invest quite a a lot of time and money in improving game numbers and controlling vermin and whatever .
They may have spent years in developing a good relationship with their landowners and making sure that no damage is done, empty shells collected, gates closed..etc.

With that in mind it isn't too surprising if they are less than delighted to see someone swan in , who has contributed neither time or money to their efforts and whose field craft and shooting practices are an unknown quantity.
It may be legal in most cases , but they don't have to like it, and since some of us are not blessed with the ability to be diplomatic at all times , unpleasant exchanges can take place. Regrettable , but it happens.

I wouldn't condemn someone therefore for defending their position as a club member it is their right to do so . I know plenty of non-club shooters who are very cooperative , pleasant and safe shooters , they have made it clear to local club reps that they only wish to bag the odd bunny and respect the no-shoot areas. I also know some who insist on shooting anything that moves in blatant disregard to the work and wishes of others. these mavericks give everyone a bad name..and no sportsman or woman would want anything to do with them.

I disagree that anyone is "Smug" about potential restrictions and demands on shooters in the new regulations or the effect it may have on our freedoms .
They are a very real threat to us all and one effect of joining an affiliated club is to lend weight to the voice of the shooting lobby and help to preserve the rights we have so recently gained.

Like it or not , club membership, safe storage of firearms...etc is going to become a requirement and pre-condition for firearms ownership in most cases according the recent rewriting of the firearms act.

Anyone who doesn't realise that needs to wake up and smell the coffee.

Banjax

Jaycee

For every exemplary club of the kind you hold in high esteem, there is another which you never would.
This point alone will raise serious difficulties if membership of a club is a prerequisite for owning a firearm.

The sporting rights to any lands are not always held by the landowner. They may belong to an old landlord dating from the time before the land commission, lord such and such and his heirs. A look at the land folio will tell who has them in terms of law.
While these rights are hardly ever observed (and quite rightly in my opinion, I'm damned if some inbred pseudo-aristocrat has any say about what happens on my land), a contract where monies are paid for those rights would bring this legal issue into stark relief.

I am not condemning anyone for what they hold dear. I do take issue with exclusivity, especially when it's based on nothing more than an advanced herd instinct.

As for the CJB, we shall have to wait and see. I am neither asleep, nor have had a breakdown in my olfactory senses that prevents me from realising change is in the offing. But neither can I read the future, be it written in legalese or not.

And neither can anyone else.

jaycee

Banjax wrote:

Jaycee

For every exemplary club of the kind you hold in high esteem, there is another which you never would.

This point alone will raise serious difficulties if membership of a club is a prerequisite for owning a firearm.

Logically that suggests that 50% of clubs are dysfunctional , I find that figure hard to believe.Even if it were , accurate , there is nothing stopping the poor unfortunate members from simply quitting and joining a good club.

The sporting rights to any lands are not always held by the landowner. They may belong to an old landlord dating from the time before the land commission, lord such and such and his heirs. A look at the land folio will tell who has them in terms of law.
While these rights are hardly ever observed (and quite rightly in my opinion, I'm damned if some inbred pseudo-aristocrat has any say about what happens on my land), a contract where monies are paid for those rights would bring this legal issue into stark relief.

You seem to think that when I mention sporting rights , it is the exclusive preserve of the so called "Landed elite" , not so . There are many instances where the fishing rights to a particular stretch are leased. Then we have the situation with Coilte and deer stalking , a somewhat similar process.
Try fishing or shooting on that ground and you will likely find pretty soon that there is indeed a legal standing to their rights .
I can't agree that it a good thing that anyone's legal rights are ignored , if you find yourself in an unfortunate situation with an issue such as that you have the option of legal action through the courts.

I am not condemning anyone for what they hold dear. I do take issue with exclusivity, especially when it's based on nothing more than an advanced herd instinct.

Well we agree on that , but I haven't seen any evidence of it.
You however may have a specific case in mind and I can't comment on that.

As for the CJB, we shall have to wait and see. I am neither asleep, nor have had a breakdown in my olfactory senses that prevents me from realising change is in the offing. But neither can I read the future, be it written in legalese or not.

I am referring to the guidelines as published with regard to the new CJB and specifically the the firearms legislation contained therein. Very little , if any precognition is required to make an assessment of the likely outcome.
Further evidence of the slightly gloomy prospects may be taken from the fact that, of the aspects of the new act that are enacted they are almost all concerned with restricting or placing restrictions on shooters, while the ones permitting additional freedoms and permissions have not.

I refer to the lack of movement on the training licences and reloading to name but two, definitions of requirements for the safe storage of firearms are also missing , while the power to make it up as they go along is placed in the hands of the authorities .

And neither can anyone else.

Perhaps not , but if it walks like a duck , quacks like a duck and looks like a duck ...It's probably a duck . Especially if for over 30 years it has proven to be a duck too.

Banjax

Jaycee

Regarding good and bad clubs, the situation is far from as rosy as you tend to paint it, and telling people who cannot join those clubs is tantamount to telling them to eat cake. It is not so simple as that after all.

Where you get your interpretation of sporting rights is unknown to me. However, you'll find that nearly every land folio has an indication of where these rights lie. And very often, they lie with those people who owned the land perhaps 3 or 4 or more owners ago. The current heirs may have nothing at all to do with the land anymore or even be aware of those rights. It is not a case of sporting rights being the preserve of a "landed elite", it's just the case that the landed elite were the original (as far as law is concerned) owners.
So where a landowner may give permission to a club to shoot/hunt over his or her lands, that permission may in fact be groundless in a legal sense, as the sporting rights are not his to give in the first place.
Coilte/public/state owned land usually dates from the time of the land commissions, and as far as I know, most of the sporting rights lie with the state.

The CJB and legislation therein has definite points that require no guesswork, I agree with you there. But I've read little in it that appears to affect me personally to the point where I would take exception (fat lot of good it would do me even if I did). The effect of this on someone new to shooting is another thing entirely though, I'll give you that.

As for my wait and see attitude, it still holds. I've done a lot of shooting in the last 30 years, and I think I'll do as much in the time that is left to me, CJB or no.

jaycee

The CJB and legislation therein has definite points that require no guesswork, I agree with you there. But I've read little in it that appears to affect me personally to the point where I would take exception (fat lot of good it would do me even if I did). The effect of this on someone new to shooting is another thing entirely though, I'll give you that.

Well, God forbid that if through a change in personnel an incoming anti-firearms "Super" arrives in your area and decides that his interpretation of "Secure and safe storage" includes a concrete vault with monitored alarm, remote camera monitoring and a security patrol.
Sounds ridiculous doesn't it ...? Yet under the new firearms act the discretion to decide on the level of security is totally in his hands .
You (and others) might just take exception to that , I take exception to the fact that the clause is in there in the first place and that it could happen.
However unlikely it seems ,there is nothing to prevent it, and that is just one of the multitude of issues that need ironing out.

As for my wait and see attitude, it still holds. I've done a lot of shooting in the last 30 years, and I think I'll do as much in the time that is left to me, CJB or no.

In the last 30 years you won't have been doing a whole lot of Pistol shooting or target shooting with large calibre rifles in Ireland then . If people like the NARGC (And their affiliated clubs ) had just sat on the fence , you wouldn't have the choice to do it in the present or the future either.
Teamwork and cohesive opposition is one of the few ways we have as sportsmen and women to bring about change in our favor.

Have a chat with any gundealer about importing ,purchasing and licensing a Benelli M3 semi auto Shotgun and you'll realise that the hands who hold the reins of power haven't excluded shotguns from their influence either.

Clare gunner

Jaycee,
I have seen a couple of new Benelli 90s around here for sale.They must be coming back in again???

newby.204

chap i know just got a licence for a Benelli M4 super 90

Banjax

Jaycee

I doubt I'd ever be asked to do such a thing. If I had to go to that trouble, I may as well apply for a dealers certificate. My current security arrangements satisfy my gardai and should continue to do so, no matter how hard you wag your finger at me.

The amount and nature of the shooting I have done and shall continue to do is hardly of consequence. My sport is game, vermin and clays, and I don't feel any less of a sportsman for not having an inclination towards pistols or full bore target shooting. Nor, as I have said previously, do I have any issue with the NARGC, I consider it a fine organisation, but this has more to do with Des Crofton than anything else.

I support every kind of shooting sport and would do all that I could to defend our sports, no matter if it was pistols or rifles or whatever.

I have no need of a benelli M3, whatever that is, so I shan't be trying to source one. Having said that, I see no shortage of semi-auto shotguns in the firearm dealers I've been to of late. I had an old Browning auto many years ago and never had any trouble getting a cert for it.

Remmy

Banjax

A benelli M3 is a convertible shotgun capable of switching from an autoloader to pump action without any tools just a turn of a bar mechanism near the action.

I find its easier to see a use for things when you actually now what they are.

Remmy

jaycee

Jaycee,
I have seen a couple of new Benelli 90s around here for sale.They must be coming back in again???

Hi CG ,

Maybe , the M3 seems to be an "Evil thing" though , can't understand why.
Think it falls under the "Idontlikethelookathat" rule

bunny shooter

Banjax wrote:

Well, I suppose when you have nothing of substance to say for yourself, you can always go butchering the words of others.

What is kind of amusing, is your use of Voltaire's phrase. It's essentially a verbalisation of the freedom of choice and the need to defend it.

Your previous posts show a smug anticipation of the further degradation of the freedom to choose. The only thing you are interested in defending is your club.

Oh, how ill informed you really are ........ freedom of speech I believe ? not choice !

bunny shooter

Banjax you try explaining to the landowner that he/she doesn't own and control the shooting rights on his/her own land ! You'd get a short sharp answer I'd say ! It's this type of bulls..t that alienates landowners. Bet you've tried this line with a landowner/s, haven't you ? Maybe this is why you're local club don't want you?