Cork versus Kerry

vorbis

Beaten yet again by a ultra cynical Kerry team, nothing new!

Commentators are bloody annoying though. They claim Kerry deserved to win just minutes after they pulled back a Cork player who was through on goal. :mad: That was almost as annoying as that stupid ref stopping a cork counter attack to give a yellow to a Kerry player.

Carcharodon

vorbis wrote:

Beaten yet again by a ultra cynical Kerry team, nothing new!

Commentators are bloody annoying though. They claim Kerry deserved to win just minutes after they pulled back a Cork player who was through on goal. :mad: That was almost as annoying as that stupid ref stopping a cork counter attack to give a yellow to a Kerry player.

Maybe you mean to say clinical

Anything to say on the constant fouling and dirty play on the Kerry forwards, Galvin gets a yellow card after being kicked by a cork player:rolleyes:
But all that is besides the point, both teams are guilty patterns of cynical play as are all GAA teams.

I believe you may just be a bitter Cork fan that cannot stomach the fact that Cork could of taken Kerry today but lacked that final bit of class that Kerry showed in the end with those two superb points, especially from Donaghy who has had a quite campaign so far.

Kerry failed to deal with Corks short pasing game in the second half and I have serious doubts over Quirkes contribution to the team, he has never really impressed me enough over the years to warrant a midfield place in a championship team. Its obvious he is not a natural footballer and maybe a more natural and mobile midfielder would be better.

Haven't a Clue

Yeah, although it wasn't Kerry's most impressive display, they did deserve to win. Cork depended on a lot of reckless tackling from the Kerry defenders to get their frees, whereas Kerry were scoring a good few more from play. Cork were unlucky not to get a penalty at the end there alright, but I still think Kerry deserved enough on their forward play alone.

wanabe

Kerry won at a canter! just did enough to get the job done! Id prefer them to keep theyre best form for the important games to come! to b e fair Cork never looked like winning!

Prowetod

Both teams missed easy scores and to be honest a draw would have been a much fairer result

vorbis

wanabe wrote:

Kerry won at a canter! just did enough to get the job done! Id prefer them to keep theyre best form for the important games to come! to b e fair Cork never looked like winning!

So Cork never looked like winning even though they should have had a penaly with 3 minutes of play left with the scores level at that time :rolleyes:

Cork weren't angels either with their tackling. I still thought they were below the Kerry cynicism of fouling anyone who looked remotely like starting a quick break.

Orizio

Cork could have won that game, if we had gotten the penalty as we should have.

We wouldn't have deserved it though, we were by and large terrible for the first 50 minutes.Only MacMahon, Masters and Cussen played to a high enough standard until Morgan's tinkering and substitutions made such a big difference.And I never thought I would have to say this, but we should never have dropped Conor McCarthy. Come back my son, all is forgiven...:p

Carcharodon

vorbis wrote:

So Cork never looked like winning even though they should have had a penaly with 3 minutes of play left with the scores level at that time :rolleyes:

Cork weren't angels either with their tackling. I still thought they were below the Kerry cynicism of fouling anyone who looked remotely like starting a quick break.

He may have been pulled back a bit but he was given the advantage and had a open goal to aim at and missed, maybe it should of been a penalty but it was a shocking miss from close range even if he was fouled.

I thought for the goal Cork did score there was a foul on the Kerry player that was running on to the Cork player that scored the goal. It looked like obstruction and a bit dirty to be honest, caught him very high and left the Kerry player worse for wear.

I would agree that Kerry did commit alot of fouls around the middle of the park and anytime Cork broke forward but it was more desperation tackling than anything, they found it hard to cope with Corks short game during the second half and had to stop them from getting into a free flowing mode.

I would like to see the stats on fouls commited, dont think there would be too much in the difference

Orizio

Umm it wasn't an open goal.For it to be an open goal, the goalkeeper would have to have been absent.And it wasn't that easy, he was off balance because he was being fouled.Futhermore, the ref should have let Cork have the shot, but when it was obvious that there was no advantage itshould have been a penalty.

Carcharodon

Orizio wrote:

Umm it wasn't an open goal.For it to be an open goal, the goalkeeper would have to have been absent.And it wasn't that easy, he was off balance because he was being fouled.Futhermore, the ref should have let Cork have the shot, but when it was obvious that there was no advantage itshould have been a penalty.

Put your handag down and dont take everything someone says as so literal :rolleyes:
Never said it was not a foul, said he should of done better with the finish, the fact that bitter Cork fans are saying it should of been a penalty emphasizes how close he was and in my opinion should of done better even if his shirt was tuged

If Cork are any good they might get another chance to prove themselves against Kerry.

yayamark

Kerry are a class act allright.

i hate all this bickering about pulling and what could have been. Kerry won fair and square, thier no angels and neither are cork.
Cork surprised me a lot on how much theyve improved.

Kerry always step up a gear from now on, but i think they are in a big disadvantage winning the Munster Final as they will not play competively now for six weeks. Last year they drew with cork so they had a replay and then the qualifers which meant extra games and the team ticking nicely over and culminating in an All-Ireland victory.

Cork now have the qualifer route and extra games so i think theyll improve with them under their belt.

The weather today was brilliant, i'm a bit red from the sun. What was the story with the attendance 31 thousand? Their was way more their than that. I'd say over 40, 000. Where i was in the terrace there was people standing in the aisles. i saw no empty seats in the stand either.

Carcharodon

Full house alright, around 40k i say.
Would have to agree with yayamark about Kerry not playing competively for six weeks, there is still some work to be done, especially in midfield with Quirke, I dont think he is the best option, hope he proves me wrong but i feel the negatives outweigh the positives.
The availability of such class forwards is unreal, being able to leave Quill out of the team just shows the strength of the attack He has been in great form this year and am surprised he has not got a run from the bench.

homerjay2005

i would sum up the game like this -

* - kerry were the better team and deserved win
* - attendance was a joke, there was no way that another 13000 could have fitted in there, same happens every year in killarney...the terrace was about 85% full, not 60% as they seem to suggest.
* - paul galvin was badly wronged and o leary will do well to escape a ban
* - ref was poor and spoiled the game
* - despite the massive overcrowding, the amount of top class high fielding at midfield was top class
* - masters was well marshalled by marc o shea
* - donaghy had a massive influence on the game, depsite what anybody says...he set up about 6 scores and scored the best score of the game

blackbelt

If I was a Cork fan,I would have come out of that game feeling robbed.Cork played superb football and Cussen is Corks answer to Donaghy.

Paul Galvin should have been sent off for that off the ball tackle,clipping a players ankles.A blatant pull of the jersey saved Kerry.Unfortunately for Cork the refs vision seemed to be blocked by a Kerry defender.

Donaghy had an ok game.Colm Cooper played very well with Dara O Se also chipping in.I am very impressed with Masterson.

I wouldn't like to have Cork in the qualifiers if they are to play like that.I have a sneaky suspicion that Kerry v Cork round 2 will be on the cards if the draw works out.

lukin

Kerry are experts at getting away with things like O Se did to Kavanagh at the end. They are able to foul and make it look like it isn't a foul.
That's not sour grapes, just an admission that Kerry ae still a bit too cute for us, even though there is obviously not a great deal between the two sides.

kevmy

If I was a Kerry fan I would not be overexcited by this victory. It remains to be seen how good a team Cork are (no offence to Cork they done well yesterday and have improved but they wouldn't be on my list of AI contenders). Also holes where shown up in the Kerry defence 1-13 is a high enough score to concede. Midfield ran out of puff (noticeably Quirke) and they let a Cork team that should have been out the gate back into it. IMO they won't win Sam this (could get to semi final/ final but that feck all good in Kerry). They will regret the loss of Jack O Connor, by far and away the best manager since Micko.

On the plus side Donaghy is here to stay, Darragh O Se played well as did Declan O Sullivan and the Gooch came into it in the second half.

Still amazed that Galvin has 2 All Stars he done nothing yesterday to change my opinion of him. Kicked some bad wides and got involved in some ugly stuff (I know he was wronged in the first case but startin an off the ball incident when already on a yellow is stupid). But then he has always got involved in stupid stuff. All this give a dog a bad name stuff is bollocks, there is a reason he has a bad name, as Dara O Cinneide pretty much admitted on the Sunday Game. Pity because the rest of the Kerry team generally don't get involved in too much stuff - well not above the average level.

blackbelt

The way I see it,Cork have improved while Kerry are the same.I didn't see the same magic one would normally expect from Kerry but it is July and not August or September and Kerry did enough to win.Those last two points were very good and Kerry did well to get away with things and edge their noses in front before the final whistle.

I was very impressed with Cork however.I'd talk them up more from yesterday than I would Kerry.They are going to be extremely hard to beat in the qualifiers.A Cork-Tyrone quarter Final would make my day.As I said before,I'd feel a bit cheated if I were from Cork and they do have a right/claim with that incident at the end.Certainly folks on here would put that down to sour grapes but the claim is very feasible and Kerry could have been dumped into the qualifiers.

Hard luck Cork.

Kojak

Cork have definatly gotten better than last year. If they hadn't been taking some silly choices in the first half - i.e. shooting from far out when there was little chance of scoring - then they might have won despite the claims for a penalty in the last few minutes.

kerry just laboured along with no real drive in them ( a bit like their munster final of last year) and I am not convinced that Quirke in the middle of the field is of any great help. He seemed to be too slow to move to the ball, and wasn't contributing much from open play.

Cork will be one of the 4 provincial finalsists that the qualifier teams will not like to meet. They are not All-Ireland contendors yet, IMO, but could once again reach a semi-final if the draw goes well for them.

blackbelt

As a real fan who is objective,would that mean that Dublin and Galway are not contenders?I'd certainly label Cork contenders and Dublin too.Galway are unproven in my book.Corks problem is Kerry and always has been.It would be interesting to see how they would progress if they did not meet Kerry in the final stages of the Championship until the final itself if they could make it.

Cussen is Corks answer to Donaghy.I think if Kerry didn't get away with the things they did,Cork would have edged it by a point.I saw a free kick that was called wide after some delay but from the replay,it seemed to go over the post rather than between or wide.

Some unlucky decisions but Cork had no excuses for those missed chances from far out.The goal opportunity at the end was a disgrace.He had a perfectly good chance of scoring a goal had his jersey been not pulled.Owen Mulligan would have buried that in my opinion.This gives me the impression that Kerry are in big trouble if they meet Tyrone.

Mr. Incognito

I was at the game and i was very impressed with the athmosphere. The real rivalry and sting has gone out of the tie with the advent of the qualifiers.

Billy Morgan has done wonders in Cork in two short years but Kerry just have that little bit of experience and always come to the fore when it matters. The difference is that Kerry have been through the fire and Cork are up and coming. That was the margin.

Gooch is playing very well and I was impressed with Mike Frank's free taking. I don't think he even had a wide in the second half.

Why Quill isn't playing in the half forward line is beyond me. He carried them in the league.

rebs23

Delighted with elements of the Cork display yesterday but still you felt that Kerry just had that bit extra if needed. Cork will improve if we progress through the qualifiers, hopefully enough to get another go at Kerry.
As others have said though Kerry are unbelievably cynical and its just typical that they get away with that jersey pulling incident towards the end.

kevmy

Well Cork as regards AI contenders would be very unproven IMO. At least Dublin have won 3 Leinsters and been in 2 Semi Finals where they were beaten by a point in the last 5 years. Cork don't have that kind of record.

As for Galway they won it in 98, 01 and reached a final replay in 00 so they have at least some players who have been there before. Although I would agree they are a little unproven also.

As a matter of fact the only team who have really laid down a marker for this years Championship has been Tyrone.

blackbelt

That is very true in regards to Tyrone who came under fire when they just about got past Fermanagh only to completely blitz Donegal.

I wasn't overly impressed by Kerrys performance but they usually don't play terribly well this time of year...just enough to get by.You only have to look at Cork (Munster) and Longford last year to see they weren't much up to scratch but still went on to win.

Usually between Tyrone and Kerry,either one has gone on to win the AI through the qualifier route.Its interesting to note that neither (probably) has not gone down this route with Tyrone dead on favorites to account for Monaghan.

Could we see a resurging Armagh or Donegal come back to claim ultimate victory in September?...judging from the form for the last two years,it is very possible.

kevmy

blackbelt wrote:

I wasn't overly impressed by Kerrys performance but they usually don't play terribly well this time of year...just enough to get by.You only have to look at Cork (Munster) and Longford last year to see they weren't much up to scratch but still went on to win.

I understand that well but I can't see any county making 4 finals in a row in this day and age - even Kerry

blackbelt wrote:

Could we see a resurging Armagh or Donegal come back to claim ultimate victory in September?...judging from the form for the last two years,it is very possible.

Maybe Donegal - unlikely but possible. Can't see Armagh doing it just too many miles on the clock.


ATM my favourites for AI
1) Tyrone
2) Dublin
3) Kerry
4) Galway
5) Donegal
6) Mayo
7) Cork

No one else stands a chance IMO. Probably winner will come from top four surprised but not shocked if it comes from the other 3.
Anyone else and I will be gobsmacked.

Carcharodon

Well, some of Kerrys play may have been "cynical" but if it lands us another All Ireland I wont mind, maybe some of the quality football the team play has more to do with their success rather than their cynical play which no other county is guilty of .....people seem to fail to notice the cynical play of the Cork backs as usual, they find it hard to cope with Kerry forwards so they resort to cynical behaviour, which is fine in my book, cos its all part of the game but people seem to ignore it...


Draw would of probably been a fair result but what can you do !

Two questions on Kerry team.

1. Quirke in midfield - Doubt if a change will be made since we dont have any competitive games to experiment.

2. Quill not getting a game is very strange to me, has been great in league campaign and superb for his club team all year.

Kerry will find it hard to retain All Ireland but its not impossible.

blackbelt

Interesting analysis Kevmy but do you think Dublin are 2nd favourites to win the AI?I find it hard to believe from a Mayo man We might get to a semi.A lot of people I know speculate that Dublin might not do as well this year but we all must take into account that Dublin did win the AI in 1995 when they were in Division 2.So maybe we could surprise this year but Kerry and Tyrone are too strong in my opinion.If Mayo meet Dublin,Dublin could roast Mayo but I expect Mayo to improve big time from the qualifier system.

Mayo only beat Dublin for the first time in the championship last year.

In fact my ranking at the moment would be this.

1.Tyrone
2.Kerry
3.Mayo
4.Dublin
5.Cork
6.Donegal
7.Galway
8.Armagh

Armagh have no place in the top three because they are not part of the "big three" anymore since 2005.

Orizio

Quirke definetly seems like a passenger.

You look at Murphy, Kavanagh, Donaghy and Cussen, they are big men but they are mobile.You can't afford to have midfielder who can't move in senior football.

jmayo

blackbelt wrote:

Interesting analysis Kevmy but do you think Dublin are 2nd favourites to win the AI?I find it hard to believe from a Mayo man We might get to a semi.A lot of people I know speculate that Dublin might not do as well this year but we all must take into account that Dublin did win the AI in 1995 when they were in Division 2.So maybe we could surprise this year but Kerry and Tyrone are too strong in my opinion.If Mayo meet Dublin,Dublin could roast Mayo but I expect Mayo to improve big time from the qualifier system.

Mayo only beat Dublin for the first time in the championship last year.

In fact my ranking at the moment would be this.

1.Tyrone
2.Kerry
3.Mayo
4.Dublin
5.Cork
6.Donegal
7.Galway
8.Armagh

Armagh have no place in the top three because they are not part of the "big three" anymore since 2005.

Have to disagree...
1. Kerry
2. Tyrone
3. Armagh
4. Galway
5. Dublin
6. Donegal
7. Cork
8. Mayo

I think Dublin would be ahead of Mayo and Galway would also be up there.

But I think the winners would be either Kerry or Tyrone.
If there players aren't injured and play upto their potential then Tyrone could well do it.
Dublin have too many non-performing forwards, only one guy really does it at one time.

Sadly Mayo are not tough enough, look how Glway steamrolled them in the last match, and realistically have only really one good forward.
McDonald, even though fantastic kicker and passer of a ball, can be neutralised and actually slows down attacks in my opinion.
We still do not have good enough full back, we are very suceptible to high balls, so no way of coping with Donaghys or Cussins.
Also we have no real banker of a goal scorer. All Ireland winners always have goal scorers. Mortimer is not a goal scorer.

Just my tuppence worth...

blackbelt

I wouldn't place Armagh in the top three anymore to be honest.Sure they won an All-Ireland in 2002 and got to the final in 2003 but they have done nothing since really apart from winning the Ulster Title 3 times in a row.They are an aged side who failed to impress last year while narrowly going out in 2005 with a last gasp free from Tyrone.Their league campaign was abysmal.

Galway only have dangerous forwards but the battle is always lost in midfield or at the half back line whereas with Dublin,our forwards are our downfall.Too many times we have had games where we had so many scoring opportunities that went wide.If Vaughn had been taking the frees against Tyrone in 2005 in the first match it would have been goodbye for Tyrone probably.Our real strength is in midfield.

Mayo have Mortimer for the points and I'd rely on somebody like Andy Moran to score the goals.McGarrity coming back will lift Mayo to the point they will probably make the final if they don't meet Kerry along the way.

Donegal,a team I can't put my finger on.They blitzed everybody this year including Kerry,Mayo (twice),Dublin,Cork,Fermanagh,Armagh and Tyrone.They drew with Limerick.All the hype is gone after they got thrashed by Tyrone.

Tyrone,perfect example of strength all over the pitch.I can't see any real weakness in their team since they lost to Cork in the League.Sean Cavanagh,Owen Mulligan,Cavlan,Dooher,McGuigan.So much strength in depth.

Kerry,their forwards (Mike Frank,Gooch,Donaghy) and O Se at midfield.

Cork,Cussen,Masterson...big guys with shooting boots.

My favourites are Tyrone.Even with the injuries this year,you can't count them out.Kerry will dread playing them.

Mr. Incognito

I doubt that.

I would think that the Kerry players would love to get a crack at Tyrone because it's the only great hurdle for them left. They only lost by one point in the 2005 Final. Kerry know they have the Measure of Armagh now. The only thing I would worry about is that Pat O Shea seems to be an advocate of possession football that would play into Tyrones swarming of the half back line and may lead to a lot of turned over ball.

The only way to beat Kerry is starve the forwards of ball and that means consistentlly targeting the half back line as that is where a lot of Kerry's attacking play comes in the form of Galvin or Thomas O Shea gallloping down the flanks.

Reidy has been outstading in all his games so far and is an excellent find. For such a young player to settle so fast is encouraging.

Sadly for Dublin they just don't have the forwards to compete. They are not going to outscore Kerry or Tyrone imo. They have a good boiler house in midfield and some outstanding half backs but the half forward line really is where it all falls apart.

Kerry are called cynical but the pure dirt that was pulled in the Meath and Dublin games was shocking. Tyrone are a very cynical team aswell. i remember in the semi final in 2004 they were all wasting time and the dive that got McKeever sent off in the Final was a disgrace. Typical case of teh pot calling the Kettle.

Fovourites for me have to be:

Kerry
Tyrone
Cork
Galway
Dublin

Mayo are finished.

blackbelt

Kerry lost by three points in the 05 Final for the record.I am of the impression that Kerry cannot beat Tyrone.It seems that all the big teams have a mental block or recurring problem in one way or another.

1.Kerry can't beat Tyrone in the Championship..seem to be their only downfall over the years.
2.Dublins 15 minute falling asleep period/not able to close games out.
3.Mayo and All Ireland Finals (the hype being too much)
4.Tyrone injury problems every year and suspensions.
5.Galway losing to weaker teams in the qualifiers.
6.Cork keep running into Kerry and losing in the latter stages.

jank

I think Tyrone are early favoutires for Sam.
Some of their big players are coming back from injury.
The team that beats them will win the AI

Old_-_School

Carcharodon wrote:

Well, some of Kerrys play may have been "cynical" but if it lands us another All Ireland I wont mind, maybe some of the quality football the team play has more to do with their success rather than their cynical play which no other county is guilty of .....people seem to fail to notice the cynical play of the Cork backs as usual, they find it hard to cope with Kerry forwards so they resort to cynical behaviour, which is fine in my book, cos its all part of the game but people seem to ignore it...


Draw would of probably been a fair result but what can you do !

Two questions on Kerry team.

1. Quirke in midfield - Doubt if a change will be made since we dont have any competitive games to experiment.

2. Quill not getting a game is very strange to me, has been great in league campaign and superb for his club team all year.

Kerry will find it hard to retain All Ireland but its not impossible.

I can't see Quill getting back on the team now after MFR's display against Cork.
Apparently Quill was dropped in the first place (v Waterford) because he played for Rahilly's in a league game without permission from Pat O'Shea.
The forwards are pretty much locked down with Sean O'Sullivan the most likely player to dislodge one of the them with Eoin Brosnan the most likely to lose out.
Any injuries in the backs and Kerry will be in big trouble.

blackbelt

Have to say,that any injuries in the Kerry team is not good but their real strength I feel is in their forwards.Mike Frank,Donaghy and Colm Cooper are the driving force in Kerry.

news for you

SetantaL wrote:

I doubt that.

I would think that the Kerry players would love to get a crack at Tyrone because it's the only great hurdle for them left. They only lost by one point in the 2005 Final.
...
Tyrone are a very cynical team aswell. i remember in the semi final in 2004 they were all wasting time and the dive that got McKeever sent off in the Final was a disgrace. Typical case of teh pot calling the Kettle.

You've got your facts a wee bit messed up