NTL/UPC PVR or Sky+ - Should I wait?

sftwc01

Hi

My NTL 12-month contract has just ended, and I'm thinking about changing to Sky, mainly for the Sky+ box. I've heard about UPC's plans to release a PVR on the market, so it might be better or easier to stay, but I'd like to get it asap. I also have NTL BB, which is an excellent service, so I don't want to p**s NTL off.

Has anyone got any more details on the PVR product, when it will be available, any early adopter programs or ways to get to the top of the queue, price, features (will it compare favourably to Sky+), etc., etc.??

Any info would be great.

(I also posted this in the Satellite Forum, but it probably should be here - apologies for the duplication)

Thanks

JDxtra

Forget about NTL as they have been spreading rumours of an imminent PVR launch for far too long. It's just a ploy to stall existing customers dumping their service and getting Sky+ or HD instead.

JDxtra

sftwc01 wrote:

I don't want to p**s NTL off.

Don't worry about that. They don't have much respect for their customers, so why should you be concerned about them?

Alun

JDxtra wrote:

Forget about NTL as they have been spreading rumours of an imminent PVR launch for far too long. It's just a ploy to stall existing customers dumping their service and getting Sky+ or HD instead.

It isn't actually. I know for a fact that there's one on the way (don't ask me how I know or I'd have to kill you ), just don't expect it before the end of the year whatever the UPC/ntl:/Chorus press people might tell you.

JDxtra

Alun wrote:

It isn't actually. I know for a fact that there's one on the way (don't ask me how I know or I'd have to kill you ), just don't expect it before the end of the year whatever the UPC/ntl:/Chorus press people might tell you.

Of course it's a ploy! They need to stall anybody thinking of Sky+ until they get their act together.

They may indeed have some buggy piece of junk in development - but who cares? They are almost 6 years (yes folks, 6 years!) too late. Sky+ launched in September 2001!

Rosser

If were you I'd hang on a few more months and see what happens with UPC. I recently switched to Sky and really miss my NTL b/band and I know I'll be killed for saying this but 99% of the extra channels you get on Sky suck b*lls!:)

DingDong

Rosser wrote:

If were you I'd hang on a few more months and see what happens with UPC. I recently switched to Sky and really miss my NTL b/band and I know I'll be killed for saying this but 99% of the extra channels you get on Sky suck b*lls!:)

LOL so true
I'm putting my name down to trial one of them. Its a thomson brand dvr from what I'm told.
ON the other hand sky+ does look cool plus I'd reckon their's is better developed software
Although UPC could go and suprise us all and come out with a great product.
I take it this is the model UPC willbe using
http://www.thomson.net/EN/Home/MiniSites/BAP/Cable/ModelDetail.html?category=Standard%20Definition%20DVR&model=6000%20Series

paulm17781

DingDong wrote:

I'm putting my name down to trial one of them.

How? Where?

DingDong

You need to be employed by the evil empire know as UPC

paulm17781

DingDong wrote:

You need to be employed by the evil empire know as UPC

Do you reckon they'll be out next month?

Mossy Monk

Hardly if they haven't trialled them yet.

DingDong

No idea if its close to the finished product.

Rosser

any idea if they'll have a revamped EPG to match Sky? There's no way the current one will do the job

paulm17781

Rosser wrote:

any idea if they'll have a revamped EPG to match Sky? There's no way the current one will do the job

I am hoping (and maybe being naive) that they plan to address many issues when they release this. Hopefully new software etc. on it. If not they are bound to lose more customers and buying NTL and Chorus will have turned to a complete waste.

Sideshow Mark

The SBP has an article about the UPC PVR launch. Its €8 per month extra, available to all Digital subscribers, there's a possibility of having no installation or equipment charge, and it will be available in a few weeks. Its launch will coincide with the UPC rebranding. The article also mentions that HD will be available before the end of the year and VoD early next year.

JDxtra

Heard it all before...

patrickmooney

Read that piece as well. The very same article, well simlar, was published in the same paper last month and the month before. Nice publicity with shifting dates. It's always in a couple of weeks.

loyatemu

in March they were on the radio saying it would be launched "next month" - the last round of newspaper reports then said "in July"

Its July now, I'm gonna start clearing a space for it under my TV! :rolleyes:

Kotek Besar

rubadub wrote:

Is it legal to use a 3rd party PVR box on ntl? only watching channels you have paid for, think it would be about €350 for one.

Legal, yes. But against NTL's Ts & Cs.

Ryaller

loyatemu wrote:

in March they were on the radio saying it would be launched "next month" - the last round of newspaper reports then said "in July"

Its July now, I'm gonna start clearing a space for it under my TV! :rolleyes:

Yeah, NTL guy also said they'd be soring out their customer service dept...

flogen

patrickmooney wrote:

Read that piece as well. The very same article, well simlar, was published in the same paper last month and the month before. Nice publicity with shifting dates. It's always in a couple of weeks.

Was it? UPC have been promising DVR and HD for a while but I've never heard or seen them say it'd be here within the next few weeks - it's always more vague than that.

For the record, I was told it would be during Summer, and Coen was willing to give me the exact date, but their PR person told him not to.

Apparently they've tested everything and it's all ready to go.

Mountjoy Mugger

There was an article on siliconrepublic last December where UPC indicated PVR in the first half of 2007:

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/news.nv?storyid=single7433

Another interview on the same site confirms July for the launch of PVR and HD sometime later in the year:

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/news.nv?storyid=single8370

flogen

Mountjoy Mugger wrote:

There was an article on siliconrepublic last December where UPC indicated PVR in the first half of 2007:

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/news.nv?storyid=single7433

Another interview on the same site confirms July for the launch of PVR and HD sometime later in the year:

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/news.nv?storyid=single8370

Hadn't seen the second article where they named July before to be honest - it's basically what they told me too (depending on what calender you follow!)

As for the first one, it's the kind of vague date I was talking about - saying first half of next year seems like he's just taking a blind guess, although in fairness he wasn't way off!

JDxtra

flogen wrote:

Apparently they've tested everything and it's all ready to go.

But their EPG is in such bad shape - I can't see how any PVR would reliably work unless they address this first.

Or, here's a "pie in the sky" thought.... maybe they have new UPC branded software ready to go for all boxes which fixes the bugs...?

...not bothered with waiting anymore though, my NTL sub expires on Thursday and Sky will be here next week to install Sky+.

loyatemu

flogen wrote:

As for the first one, it's the kind of vague date I was talking about - saying first half of next year seems like he's just taking a blind guess, although in fairness he wasn't way off!

how do you know he's not way off - they still haven't launched it...

batman2000

I head that the NTL or(UPC) PVR will only record 10hrs and is no match for Sky. This was from an NTL eingineer !!! He said it won't be widely available until the end of '07

flogen

JDxtra wrote:

But their EPG is in such bad shape - I can't see how any PVR would reliably work unless they address this first.

Or, here's a "pie in the sky" thought.... maybe they have new UPC branded software ready to go for all boxes which fixes the bugs...?

I'd expect a totally new EPG to coincide with the proper re-brand to be honest -I hope so anyway because the NTL one is crap.

loyatemu wrote:

how do you know he's not way off - they still haven't launched it...

Assuming that they're going to launch in July, which I believe they will, then he's not way off. It could all change, of course.

batman2000 wrote:

I head that the NTL or(UPC) PVR will only record 10hrs and is no match for Sky. This was from an NTL eingineer !!! He said it won't be widely available until the end of '07

They told me it's a 160GB HDD, which they said would offer 80 hours of recording... now I'm not sure if that's only when certain settings are used (like recorded at a lower bit rate or something), but I'd imagine 160GB would get you more than 10hours even at the best quality. A 10 hour limit would be pretty crap, though - considering what some VHS tapes can offer on LP

watty

With Digital direct recording on Cable, Satellite or Terrestrial you can't set the bit rate (That's only a quality setting available for Analogue video capture).

The bits of the signal are recorded as they are, so playback is identical to the live reception. The recording space used versus time is thus variable depending on the transmission.

Freddie59

flogen wrote:

I'd expect a totally new EPG to coincide with the proper re-brand to be honest -I hope so anyway because the NTL one is crap.



Assuming that they're going to launch in July, which I believe they will, then he's not way off. It could all change, of course.



They told me it's a 160GB HDD, which they said would offer 80 hours of recording... now I'm not sure if that's only when certain settings are used (like recorded at a lower bit rate or something), but I'd imagine 160GB would get you more than 10hours even at the best quality. A 10 hour limit would be pretty crap, though - considering what some VHS tapes can offer on LP

10 hours?:eek: Have a look at this:

http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/today/?p=1053

flogen

Freddie59 wrote:

10 hours?:eek: Have a look at this:

http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/today/?p=1053

Yeah, I know - I was responding to a previous comment that suggested the HDD would only allow 10 hours of recording, as I said in my comment, I was told by Mark Coan it'd be 80 hours.

watty wrote:

With Digital direct recording on Cable, Satellite or Terrestrial you can't set the bit rate (That's only a quality setting available for Analogue video capture).

The bits of the signal are recorded as they are, so playback is identical to the live reception. The recording space used versus time is thus variable depending on the transmission.

But would different channels have different bit rates etc. as it stands (asiding HD channels, of course)? So could a programme from RTÉ One take up more space than BBC News 24 or is it all the same on NTL at the moment?

DingDong

Got my DVR so far it looks cool, new EPG(7days and UPC branded), works alot better than the old one. I'm told that its good for 60 hours recording. I wouldn't say its far off from launching either looks fairly finished product to me. Haven't really got a chance to mess about with it yet but all looks good so far. Can't compare it too sky+ as I never used sky+ before.

Edit
Just recorded 49 minutes of a program and it only used 1% of the hard drive, so it should be able for a fair amount of recording

digitaldr

Ding Dong is it the Thomson one you mentioned earlier? Can you dual record on it? What about live pause etc? Any chance you could post up some pictures of the EPG/box when you get a chance? I've got Sky+ at the moment and would be reluctant to go back to NTL/UPC - their customer service stinks worse than sky's!

Rosser

DingDong wrote:

Got my DVR so far it looks cool, new EPG(7days and UPC branded), works alot better than the old one. I'm told that its good for 60 hours recording. I wouldn't say its far off from launching either looks fairly finished product to me. Haven't really got a chance to mess about with it yet but all looks good so far. Can't compare it too sky+ as I never used sky+ before.

Edit
Just recorded 49 minutes of a program and it only used 1% of the hard drive, so it should be able for a fair amount of recording

Hey, Can you do a series link on it?(that should give a good indication of the how far into the future the EPG can handle). Is the EPG much different to the current one? Let's get Watty around to have a good mess about with it!:D

brianc123

Whats on the back of the box ?
any HDMI, optical audio etc?

DingDong

Yeah its the Thomson model. No dual record. You can pause live tv. I'll try get some pic's of it up tomorrow. A nice little display on the front telling you what your watching. Looks like it able to do VOD too (has a modem inside)
Yeah the EPG is different more along the lines of sky's but looks a little nicer in my opinion(dark blue in colour). Don't think you can series link on it. Its good for 7 days at most.
Outputs on the back are ethernet, usb , 2 scart, standard audio output, digital audio output(not optical).
It seems to work so much better too. None of the jumping in screen format(wide screen to standard).The browse button only seems to now and next.
So far I'm impressed. I reckon you could record 80+ hours on it too.

Alun

DingDong wrote:

Yeah the EPG is different more along the lines of sky's but looks a little nicer in my opinion(dark blue in colour). Don't think you can series link on it. Its good for 7 days at most.

Maybe that's what those extra services were for that have appeared on the bottom of the Help screen recently. Looks like they could be running two EPG's in parallel, seeing as the standard one is still only a max of 3 days (if you're lucky).

It seems to work so much better too. None of the jumping in screen format(wide screen to standard).

Not sure what you're referring to there. If you change from a WS to 4:3 program then I'd expect the screen format to 'jump' .. if it doesn't, then there's something wrong somewhere like the box somehow not passing on the widescreen switching signal to the TV which is not a good thing.

JDxtra

Alun wrote:

Maybe that's what those extra services were for that have appeared on the bottom of the Help screen recently.

They are broadcasting at least two extra test streams that I can see at the moment- maybe this accounts for the extra channels (Setanta Sports Test & Setanta Golf Test)?

Alun wrote:

the standard one is still only a max of 3 days (if you're lucky).

...and 3 hours for the majority.

DingDong

I know what your saying Alun that it should change as not all channel are broadcasting in widescreen. The old box seem to do it randomly even when the channel was broadcasting in wide sceen it would stay at 4:3.

I've attached a pic of the of the manual that came with the box. It gives you a look at the epg.

JDxtra

Cheers DingDong, very interesting to see.

Alun

DingDong wrote:

I know what your saying Alun that it should change as not all channel are broadcasting in widescreen. The old box seem to do it randomly even when the channel was broadcasting in wide sceen it would stay at 4:3.

OK .. I think that was mainly a problem with the new small silver boxes. I've got the 'medium'-sized silver Pace box which hasn't given me any hassle in that regard.

I've attached a pic of the of the manual that came with the box. It gives you a look at the epg.

Looks good

ethernet

DingDong wrote:

Yeah its the Thomson model. No dual record. You can pause live tv. I'll try get some pic's of it up tomorrow. A nice little display on the front telling you what your watching. Looks like it able to do VOD too (has a modem inside)
Yeah the EPG is different more along the lines of sky's but looks a little nicer in my opinion(dark blue in colour). Don't think you can series link on it. Its good for 7 days at most.
Outputs on the back are ethernet, usb , 2 scart, standard audio output, digital audio output(not optical).
It seems to work so much better too. None of the jumping in screen format(wide screen to standard).The browse button only seems to now and next.
So far I'm impressed. I reckon you could record 80+ hours on it too.

That's most disappointing. How on earth do they suspect to lure customers from Sky if it can't match features of Sky+. I hope that can be fixed with a future firmware upgrade.

DingDong

By dual record I take it digitaldr ment recording two programs at once. You can record while watching another. Another cool feature is if your watching a channel you can rewind to the point you turn the channel on.

The tax man

DingDong wrote:

I've attached a pic of the of the manual that came with the box. It gives you a look at the epg.

How did you get a manual with yours?? All I got was a stupid sheet about electrical safety etc.:rolleyes: Did your guide take ages to come up the first time you tried to access it? Anything in the manual to stop that front display from scrolling?

Yay....1,000th post.

paulm17781

The tax man wrote:

How did you get a manual with yours?? All I got was a stupid sheet about electrical safety etc.

How did you get one? Are you a UPC employee too?

The EPG looks nice, I'm looking forward to getting one.

DingDong

They were having problems with guide at the headend but its seems to be all good now. The manual just came with the box not really a full manual more a sheet

RuggieBear

how much extra is the pvr gonna cost?

Rosser

ethernet wrote:

That's most disappointing. How on earth do they suspect to lure customers from Sky if it can't match features of Sky+. I hope that can be fixed with a future firmware upgrade.

Agree, it's great that they've got this far but if there's no series link then that is a problem, the EPG looks great though.

JDxtra

The remote looks exactly like a standard European UPC MediaBox remote...

JDxtra

A quick Google search also returned this video of some crazy guys who don't seem to like their UPC MediaBox... :eek:

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=n3eZyQ2QBoQ

Alun

JDxtra wrote:

A quick Google search also returned this video of some crazy guys who don't seem to like their UPC MediaBox... :eek:

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=n3eZyQ2QBoQ

Lucky I can understand Dutch

What they're complaining about, and there's been a lot of controversy about this in the Dutch press, is that UPC have been sending out MediaBoxes to people completely unannounced and without them explicitly requesting them for a 'free' six month trial during which time they pester you with marketing calls trying to get you to pay after the 6 month trial period is over. (BTW, these aren't PVR's, but just ordinary digital cable TV boxes). Dutch law apparently states that if you're sent something through the post unsolicited, then you can do with what you want, including throwing it away, regardless of whether you've signed for it or not, which is exactly what these guys are doing

digitaldr

DingDong wrote:

By dual record I take it digitaldr ment recording two programs at once. You can record while watching another. Another cool feature is if your watching a channel you can rewind to the point you turn the channel on.

Indeed I did- it was added to Sky+ with a software upgrade so maybe this will be the case with the UPC box too? Sky+ also allows you to rewind to where you started watching a channel. As far as I know series link info is supplied by the TV channel concerned (TV3 used to be terrible) so maybe UPC have to get them on board first - I'm open to correction on this though:)