Who thinks all those northern registered cars are being driven by Northern Irish?

Mailman

edit: how do I change the title of this thread so as not to offend Northern Irish people?

Hi,
the roads of this country are awash with northern plated cars. I figure the majority of them are being driven by southeners. For instance here in Dublin the number of cars on Cork plates is tiny but there are huge numbers of northern plate cars. I figure that there are plenty of people from Cork working in Dublin and bringing up their cars to Dublin in the same way as "Nordies" work in Dublin and bring their cars with them but there are just soooooo many northern plate cars around.

I figure the majority of these are driven by southern irish who don't want to pay VRT, motor tax or car insurance in the Republic.

Am I a mug for actually keeping myself legal? Do revenue actually care about the people who evade tax as long as there are enough mugs out there to pay the taxes they need to pay state pensions. Am I paying more tax than I should have to purely because others won't pay their share or would my motor tax and insurance still be the exact same?
Rgds,
Mailman.

hi5

Mailman wrote:

edit: how do I change the title of this thread so as not to offend Northern Irish people?

Hi,
the roads of this country are awash with northern plated cars. I figure the majority of them are being driven by southeners. For instance here in Dublin the number of cars on Cork plates is tiny but there are huge numbers of northern plate cars. I figure that there are plenty of people from Cork working in Dublin and bringing up their cars to Dublin in the same way as "Nordies" work in Dublin and bring their cars with them but there are just soooooo many northern plate cars around.

I figure the majority of these are driven by southern irish who don't want to pay VRT, motor tax or car insurance in the Republic.

Am I a mug for actually keeping myself legal? Do revenue actually care about the people who evade tax as long as there are enough mugs out there to pay the taxes they need to pay state pensions. Am I paying more tax than I should have to purely because others won't pay their share or would my motor tax and insurance still be the exact same?
Rgds,
Mailman.

With the money you save on VRT on a luxury car in the North you could buy a small flat there,you then register the car at that address in your own name and insure and tax it there also(stick a utility bill with your name on it in the glove compartment in case your stopped by customs).
House prices are rising in the North so its a win win situation:)
I know 2 people who have recently done this.

MGrah

Wouldn't it be reasonably easy for the revenue to figure out that you're working/paying income tax in the south, and therefore a resident?
I know that you might have to get very unlucky in order to be investigated, but wouldn't you have really set yourself up for a serious offence, i.e. provision of documents etc in order to evade tax?

On a separate point - what's the difference between dodging VRT or motor tax and dodging income tax, scamming social welfare etc? (I know the standard response will be that it's an unfair tax, but unfortunately we don't get to choose which taxes are fair and which aren't)
Irish people (and I am one) surprise me all the time with the double standards they're willing to apply to things like this. As has been noted several times on this forum, VRT/Road tax is not ringfenced for spending on motoring related government expenditure, therefore any money that the government loses through this type of tax evasion will be recouped in PAYE/PRSI. i.e. you dodge any central tax and you're stealing from every other citizen of the country.

(Not meant as a shot on anyone - just an observation)

hi5

I agree,sometimes there is a very thin line between tax evasion and tax avoidance and manys a solicitor has got fat on blurring that line.

el tel

Mailman wrote:

edit: how do I change the title of this thread so as not to offend Northern Irish people?.

I can't believe you are a moderator.

Mailman wrote:

Am I a mug

yes, you are a mug.

Anan1

el tel wrote:

I can't believe you are a moderator.



yes, you are a mug.

Any chance of a reasoned argument in support of your theories?

el tel

Anan1 wrote:

Any chance of a reasoned argument in support of your theories?

Shouldn't a moderator be wary of using derogatory terminology in both the title and a first post in a thread?

Shouldn't a moderator know how to change the title?

And he asked if he was he a mug for xyz, I suggested 'yes' to affirm his predisposition.

Mailman

el tel wrote:

I can't believe you are a moderator.



yes, you are a mug.

cMod actually.

Anan1

el tel wrote:

Shouldn't a moderator be wary of using derogatory terminology in both the title and a first post in a thread?

Shouldn't a moderator know how to change the title?

Agreed, on both counts.

el tel wrote:

And he asked if he was he a mug for xyz, I suggested 'yes' to affirm his predisposition.

Now this is the bit I don't get. Using (mildly, if at all) derogatory terminology is wrong, and yet stealing (for this is what tax evasion essentially is) is ok?

mkdon05

how is the description Nordies offensive?
Its just a shortened version of saying northern Irish. Would it be offensive to call a dubliner, a dub? or an Englishmen a Brit?
I dont believe it is.

MrPudding

mkdon05 wrote:

how is the description Nordies offensive?
Its just a shortened version of saying northern Irish. Would it be offensive to call a dubliner, a dub? or an Englishmen a Brit?
I dont believe it is.

Speaking as a nordie, I agree.

MrP

mickoneill30

el tel wrote:

Shouldn't a moderator know how to change the title?

He was asking how to word it so as to not offend northerners. He wasn't asking for technical assistance. (Correct me if I'm wrong OP but that seemed pretty obvious to me).

modalcommand

I think a lot of the yellow reg cars your are seeing now are just British tourists over on the ferry.

Anan1

mkdon05 wrote:

how is the description Nordies offensive?
Its just a shortened version of saying northern Irish. Would it be offensive to call a dubliner, a dub? or an Englishmen a Brit?
I dont believe it is.

I would agree with you on the first two counts. The word 'Brit', however, is still quite politically loaded.

Anan1

MrPudding wrote:

Speaking as a nordie, I agree.

MrP

Welcome back!;)

Mailman

No, I was asking how to change the title as I couldn't see how to edit title. I can edit contents of post no bother. I don't see anything offensive with the term "Nordie" myself but in these politically correct days where certain people feel justified to abuse you for the smallest perceived slight or wrong I would have preferred to change it.
How'ya, El Tel? having a bad day?

Anyhow, how about getting back on topic.

unkel

el tel wrote:

yes, you are a mug.

Play nice, el tel

unkel

Mailman wrote:

No, I was asking how to change the title as I couldn't see how to edit title. I can edit contents of post no bother. I don't see anything offensive with the term "Nordie" myself but in these politically correct days where certain people feel justified to abuse you for the smallest perceived slight or wrong I would have preferred to change it.

MrPudding is not offended, so I don't see a need to change the thread title. If you do want it changed, post the new title here and I'll change it for ya

mkdon05

Anan1 wrote:

I would agree with you on the first two counts. The word 'Brit', however, is still quite politically loaded.

Well i suppose it is open to interpretation when the word is actually used, i.e "I cant stand them shower of Brits", "THe land of our great Brits"
Only my opinion though.

Sorry bit off the original topic

Mailman

modalcommand wrote:

I think a lot of the yellow reg cars your are seeing now are just British tourists over on the ferry.

British reg plates have a different numbering system, except for personal plates.

el tel

Anan1 wrote:

Agreed, on both counts.


Now this is the bit I don't get. Using (mildly, if at all) derogatory terminology is wrong, and yet stealing (for this is what tax evasion essentially is) is ok?

I'm not advocating tax evasion, nor saying it's the right thing to do. However, on many counts people avoid paying tax (car, income etc.) because they can. Those of us who don't or can't (and I include myself) are essentially mugs as we pay indirectly for the benefit of those who do. No matter, I still wouldn't do it myself.

But in response to the post, I would have thought that the majority of Northern registered cars belong to Northerners and not Southerners as the OP suggests. Taking Dublin as an example as the OP has done, there are plenty of reasons why there may be more NI reg'd cars than Cork reg'd cars. For one, there is the closer proximimity of NI to Dublin and for two, there are far more NI reg'd cars than Cork cars, period. Even if only 1% of each came to Dublin, the NI vehicles would still hugely outnumber the Cork vehicles. Asides from Northerners who bring their cars to work in Dublin, there are many more who come down for trips, which is made even more feasible with the ever-improving road connections.

Anan1

mkdon05 wrote:

"The land of our great Brits"

Now there's one I haven't heard before!;)

Mailman

unkel wrote:

MrPudding is not offended, so I don't see a need to change the thread title. If you do want it changed, post the new title here and I'll change it for ya

El Tel is offended so please change "nordie" to "Northern Irish"; We have to be considerate of the feelings of others even if they aren't considerate of ours.

mkdon05

Anan1 wrote:

Now there's one I haven't heard before!;)

You obviously never watch BBC1

seamus

el tel wrote:

I can't believe you are a moderator.

What a moderator does to change a topic, and what a user has to do to change a topic are two very different things. Since you're an expert, why didn't you give him a hand instead of making snide remarks.

yes, you are a mug.

I know quite a few people who think like this, and it boils my blood.
Using the various scams to get around paying tax will come back and bite you in the ass, and rightly so. Then these people give out about not doing anything wrong :rolleyes:

Anan1

el tel wrote:

I'm not advocating tax evasion, nor saying it's the right thing to do. However, on many counts people avoid paying tax (car, income etc.) because they can. Those of us who don't or can't (and I include myself) are essentially mugs as we pay indirectly for the benefit of those who do. No matter, I still wouldn't do it myself.

I can't agree with calling people mugs for doing the right thing.

el tel

Mailman wrote:

El Tel is offended so please change "nordie" to "Northern Irish"; We have to be considerate of the feelings of others even if they aren't considerate of ours.

I'm not offended at all. The term Nordie means nothing personal to me however it is often seen as derogatory and does have associated negative connotations.

Mailman

el tel wrote:

I'm not advocating tax evasion, nor saying it's the right thing to do. However, on many counts people avoid paying tax (car, income etc.) because they can. Those of us who don't or can't (and I include myself) are essentially mugs as we pay indirectly for the benefit of those who do. No matter, I still wouldn't do it myself.

But in response to the post, I would have thought that the majority of Northern registered cars belong to Northerners and not Southerners as the OP suggests. Taking Dublin as an example as the OP has done, there are plenty of reasons why there may be more NI reg'd cars than Cork reg'd cars. For one, there is the closer proximimity of NI to Dublin and for two, there are far more NI reg'd cars than Cork cars, period. Even if only 1% of each came to Dublin, the NI vehicles would still hugely outnumber the Cork vehicles. Asides from Northerners who bring their cars to work in Dublin, there are many more who come down for trips, which is made even more feasible with the ever-improving road connections.

Most of the Northern Irish who work in my company based here in Dublin are resident in the Republic and pay their income tax in Ireland(at lower rates) but still drive on Northern Irish registration plates. They are not commuting home in the evenings and for tax purposes the Revenue Commissioners would consider them Irish Residents. Now supposedly they should be able to avoid VRT if they were moving residence to the Republic but they have the extra incentive to stay on yellow plates because it is harder to apply penalty points to them so the Garda just let them go whenever they find them breaking the rules of the road.

el tel

Mailman wrote:

Most of the Northern Irish who work in my company based here in Dublin are resident in the Republic and pay their income tax in Ireland(at lower rates) but still drive on Northern Irish registration plates. They are not commuting home in the evenings and for tax purposes the Revenue Commissioners would consider them Irish Residents. Now supposedly they should be able to avoid VRT if they were moving residence to the Republic but they have the extra incentive to stay on yellow plates because it is harder to apply penalty points to them so the Garda just let them go whenever they find them breaking the rules of the road.

This maybe so, but your original postulation about NI reg'ed cars was that "the majority of these are driven by southern irish who don't want to pay VRT, motor tax or car insurance in the Republic" You also suggested that the number of NI reg'ed cars was disproportionate to the number of Northerners who work in Dublin (your first paragraph, last sentence).

However, based on the above, are we to assume now that by 'southerner irish' you mean Northerners who pay income tax and live in the Republic?

I'm quite confused at who you are now getting at. Is it Southerners driving on NI plates, Northerners working in the South and retaining their NI registrations or NI registered cars in general?

unkel

Mailman wrote:

please change "nordie" to "Northern Irish"

Done

MrPudding

Anan1 wrote:

Welcome back!;)

Thank you. Nice to be back.:D

MrP

Mailman

el tel wrote:

This maybe so, but your original postulation about NI reg'ed cars was that "the majority of these are driven by southern irish who don't want to pay VRT, motor tax or car insurance in the Republic" You also suggested that the number of NI reg'ed cars was disproportionate to the number of Northerners who work in Dublin (your first paragraph, last sentence).

However, based on the above, are we to assume now that by 'southerner irish' you mean Northerners who pay income tax and live in the Republic?

I'm quite confused at who you are now getting at. Is it Southerners driving on NI plates, Northerners working in the South and retaining their NI registrations or NI registered cars in general?

Both.
Know of examples of both Northern Irish resident in Republic who drive Northern Irish cars and know Southern Irish who also drive Northern Irish cars to avoid VRT.
Are you of the opinion that all those Northern Irish cars are just visiting the Republic. Are you of the opinion there aren't actually that many Northern Irish cars on the roads here in the Republic. But if you want to focus discussion lets just focus on the Southern Irish driving northern Irish cars.
I contend there are too many northern Irish cars out there to be explained away by a large number of Northern Irish visiting the Republic on business or pleasure.

Alun

As another poster pointed out, the nationality of the people driving these cars here is totally irrelevant. What is relevant is their place of residence, end of story, full stop. If they're resident in the Republic for tax purposes their car should be registered here and VRT paid, whether they're Irish, British, French, Swedish, Polish or Zulu for all it matters. Northern Ireland isn't, as some people might like to think, a 'special case' in this regard.

Mailman

Alun wrote:

As another poster pointed out, the nationality of the people driving these cars here is totally irrelevant. What is relevant is their place of residence, end of story, full stop. If they're resident in the Republic for tax purposes their car should be registered here and VRT paid, whether they're Irish, British, French, Swedish, Polish or Zulu for all it matters. Northern Ireland isn't, as some people might like to think, a 'special case' in this regard.

Agreed, Revenue Commissioners determination of place of residence is all important.
But as we are talking about car registrations there are only two places where RHD cars are coming from in any quantity - UK and Northern Ireland. Nothing from Japan or any of the ex-British Colonies is allowed out of Dublin port without VRT being paid.

heyjude

If you own a foreign registered car while you live here, the two main benefits would be that you cannot get penalty points for speeding detected by speed cameras since they cannot trace the owner of the car and secondly, you effectively cannot get parking tickets for the same reason(though that doesn't stop you being clamped or having your car towed).

An even bigger benefit seems to be looming, with the plan to remove the toll booths from the M50 and replace them with automated cameras that will record all vehicle using the road and billing the owner. As foreign registered vehicles would not be traceable, the cost saving to anyone using the M50 several times a day, if you can't be charged could run into thousands every year.

The same benefits accrue whether the vehicle was bought by someone that lived abroad and has moved here or whether the owner goes abroad(such as to NI) and brings a vehicle back without paying VRT.

seamus

Alun wrote:

As another poster pointed out, the nationality of the people driving these cars here is totally irrelevant. What is relevant is their place of residence, end of story, full stop. If they're resident in the Republic for tax purposes their car should be registered here and VRT paid, whether they're Irish, British, French, Swedish, Polish or Zulu for all it matters. Northern Ireland isn't, as some people might like to think, a 'special case' in this regard.

Indeed, I would be concerned about the number of foreign registrations in general.

I have always been in favour of a registration system. When any vehicle comes into the country, it should be registered. For foreigners on a holiday, they get register it, and get a printed, barcoded registration slip which must be kept in the car at all times. The slip would contain the duration of the holiday, the reg and the VIN. This includes Northern Irish coming down through the border, even for business.

If they can't provide a valid slip, the car gets confiscated and impounded, no arguments.

heyjude

modalcommand wrote:

I think a lot of the yellow reg cars your are seeing now are just British tourists over on the ferry.

At this time of the year I'd probably agree, but they were pretty commonplace on the roads locally in Jan/Feb and I don't live near the border, so I doubt that they were tourists, especially when you see the owners coming out of DIY stores etc.

Mailman

seamus wrote:

Indeed, I would be concerned about the number of foreign registrations in general.

I have always been in favour of a registration system. When any vehicle comes into the country, it should be registered. For foreigners on a holiday, they get register it, and get a printed, barcoded registration slip which must be kept in the car at all times. The slip would contain the duration of the holiday, the reg and the VIN. This includes Northern Irish coming down through the border, even for business.

If they can't provide a valid slip, the car gets confiscated and impounded, no arguments.

They do something along these lines in Denmark. Former colleagues of Danish origin and my Danish manager wouldn't consider trying to drive a foreign registered car there because they'd be pulled in by the local police within hours of entering the country in their foreign registered car.

Alun

seamus wrote:

I have always been in favour of a registration system. When any vehicle comes into the country, it should be registered. For foreigners on a holiday, they get register it, and get a printed, barcoded registration slip which must be kept in the car at all times. The slip would contain the duration of the holiday, the reg and the VIN. This includes Northern Irish coming down through the border, even for business.

Can't see that getting past the EU somehow. To be fair and equitable, that plan would have to be implemented on every single land based border in the whole of the EU as well, of course ... in other words, not a snowball's chance in hell.

Newcarneeded

If a person is tax resident in Ireland then they should be driving on Irish plates and should have to pay VRT.

To be resident you need to spend 183 days here in the tax year, or a total of 280 days over two years. So if you're working here in a full time job you are going to be caught by the rules.

If you have an address in the North from which you register the car, tax and insure it, but that in effect it sits on a Southern driveway each night when you come home from work then it should be on Irish plates and by not paying VRT you are evading tax.

Tax evasion is illegal. It's risky business too. I was under the impression that Customs can impound the car or crush it? Anyway, if you know someone who is doing this, then why not pick up the phone and call the Revenue? After all, there is a cost of running the country, which is met by all taxes, and if one person isn't paying their share by driving on NI plates and evading VRT why should they get away with it?

That just means the same burden has to be spread across fewer compliant people.

Take it to it's limit.

If we all went up North, found a friend we could use their address for buying, taxing and insuring a car, no one would pay VRT or road tax...

All it takes is for the good people to stand idly by.

I wouldn't agree with the every car should be tagged, bar coded etc even if coming in on holiday. I don't think that proposal would stand up to cost benefit analysis. The administration involved would be crippling. There is enough bureaucracy in the country without adding to it.

MrPudding

heyjude wrote:

If you own a foreign registered car while you live here, the two main benefits would be that you cannot get penalty points for speeding detected by speed cameras since they cannot trace the owner of the car and secondly, you effectively cannot get parking tickets for the same reason(though that doesn't stop you being clamped or having your car towed).

Not quite true. It is not the foreign reg that stops you getting point it is the license. I got a fixed penalty while driving an NI car in Dublin. I forgot to pay the fine and I was tracked down a different house to the one I was living in at the time of the offence.

Several of the local authorities in Ireland use a European outfit to enforce parking fines to foreign regged cars, so not such a big advantage there either.

[FONT=&quot]MrP[/FONT]

el tel

Mailman wrote:

Both.
Know of examples of both Northern Irish resident in Republic who drive Northern Irish cars and know Southern Irish who also drive Northern Irish cars to avoid VRT.
Are you of the opinion that all those Northern Irish cars are just visiting the Republic. Are you of the opinion there aren't actually that many Northern Irish cars on the roads here in the Republic. But if you want to focus discussion lets just focus on the Southern Irish driving northern Irish cars.
I contend there are too many northern Irish cars out there to be explained away by a large number of Northern Irish visiting the Republic on business or pleasure.

Both, from my three suggestions?

OK, to focus on Southern Irish driving Northern Irish cars you suggest we throw away the most logical explanation for the numbers. With all due respect, I would contend that the number of Southern Irish driving northern Irish cars would be much much fewer than the number of people visiting the Republic on business or pleasure. It makes perfect sense. The number of cross-border car trips alone must be in the 100,000s (given that in 2001 there were 517,000 passenger movements).

Mailman

el tel wrote:

Both, from my three suggestions?

OK, to focus on Southern Irish driving Northern Irish cars you suggest we throw away the most logical explanation for the numbers. With all due respect, I would contend that the number of Southern Irish driving northern Irish cars would be much much fewer than the number of people visiting the Republic on business or pleasure. It makes perfect sense. The number of cross-border car trips alone must be in the 100,000s (given that in 2001 there were 517,000 passenger movements).

El Tel have you seen the movie "Thank you for Smoking". The lobbyist in this movie explains that he doesn't try to address the fact that smoking kills people but just tries to obfuscate and undermine the anti-smokings argument with irrelevancies. So I say to you stop trolling and contribute or withdraw from the discussion.
And don't start trying to use statistics to strengthen your position while omitting time frames and without giving attributable reliable sources.

dodgyme

I came on to this thread knowing alot about this issue since I work with alot of Northerners who live and work and marry in the republic. However seeing the amount of trolling and/or stupid questions and off topics I doubt this thread is going anywhere and this is a pity since it is fairly obvious what the OP meant.

cancan

Newcarneeded wrote:

If a person is tax resident in Ireland then they should be driving on Irish plates and should have to pay VRT.

To be resident you need to spend 183 days here in the tax year, or a total of 280 days over two years. So if you're working here in a full time job you are going to be caught by the rules.

If you have an address in the North from which you register the car, tax and insure it, but that in effect it sits on a Southern driveway each night when you come home from work then it should be on Irish plates and by not paying VRT you are evading tax.

Tax evasion is illegal. It's risky business too. I was under the impression that Customs can impound the car or crush it? Anyway, if you know someone who is doing this, then why not pick up the phone and call the Revenue? After all, there is a cost of running the country, which is met by all taxes, and if one person isn't paying their share by driving on NI plates and evading VRT why should they get away with it?

That just means the same burden has to be spread across fewer compliant people.

Take it to it's limit.

If we all went up North, found a friend we could use their address for buying, taxing and insuring a car, no one would pay VRT or road tax...

All it takes is for the good people to stand idly by.

I wouldn't agree with the every car should be tagged, bar coded etc even if coming in on holiday. I don't think that proposal would stand up to cost benefit analysis. The administration involved would be crippling. There is enough bureaucracy in the country without adding to it.

If someone owned the car in the north for 6 months, moved to the south, they are exempt from VRT anyway - so don't see what difference it makes, if their plates are yellow or not. It's free for them to change.

Now a southerner resident in ireland with yellow plates is another story

el tel

Mailman wrote:

El Tel have you seen the movie "Thank you for Smoking". The lobbyist in this movie explains that he doesn't try to address the fact that smoking kills people but just tries to obfuscate and undermine the anti-smokings argument with irrelevancies. So I say to you stop trolling and contribute or withdraw from the discussion.
And don't start trying to use statistics to strengthen your position while omitting time frames and without giving attributable reliable sources.

Listen Mailman, here's the way I see the whole thing.

You stated that "The the roads of this country are awash with northern plated cars. I figure the majority of them are being driven by southeners"
and gave some purely empirical evidence based on your observation of an apparent disparity in numbers between Cork and NI reg'ed vehicles in Dublin.

I suggested that your initial hypothesis was hogwash and questioned your statistics by pointing the flaws therein as follows:

"Taking Dublin as an example as the OP has done, there are plenty of reasons why there may be more NI reg'd cars than Cork reg'd cars. For one, there is the closer proximimity of NI to Dublin and for two, there are far more NI reg'd cars than Cork cars, period. Even if only 1% of each came to Dublin, the NI vehicles would still hugely outnumber the Cork vehicles. Asides from Northerners who bring their cars to work in Dublin, there are many more who come down for trips, which is made even more feasible with the ever-improving road connections"


Now, if you maintain that the large number of travellers from the North alone cannot account for the apparently huge numbers of NI reg'ed vehicles then that's fine. I still maintain that your initial statement is wrong and that the minority are being driven by Southeners.

(and re sources for passenger movements see page 15http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/statisticalyearbook/2002/tourism_2002.pdf )

G Luxel

Lots of Northern reg cars or Lots of East European cars with UK font and yellow plates maybe? I know of a few cars from the Baltic states whose plates are made to look like UK plates. Older polish plates, ie silver on black do look very like the Northern and UK pre 01 system.

Mailman

el tel wrote:

Now, if you maintain that the large number of travellers from the North alone cannot account for the apparently huge numbers of NI reg'ed vehicles then that's fine. I still maintain that your initial statement is wrong and that the minority are being driven by Southeners.

(and re sources for passenger movements see page 15http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/statisticalyearbook/2002/tourism_2002.pdf )

530000/365 days is 1494 inbound journeys per day spread out over the entire country which doesn't equate to the number of Northern Irish cars I'm seeing on my trip to work and why is that they are all in the same traffic jams as me at rush hour; perhaps they are going to work too but I doubt they are coming from the far side of the border each day.
That figure of 530000 isn't clearly defined so I'd assume that it includes a large number of Northern Irish residents here who go home maybe once a month to visit Mammy and Daddy; unsafe assumption, don't think so.

Nice statistic which sounds like a big number over a year but small on a day to day basis and it doesn't explain away the Northern Irish reg'd cars in my housing estate or company car park.

Since this is a forum to form consesus and thrash things out do you want to go along with the line that the large number of Northern Irish cars on Irish roads are being driven by mainly Southern Irish drivers and Northern Irish people resident for tax purposes in Ireland or are you still certain that the majority of them are northern irish people visiting for a day or two on business or for pleasure.
Or.....are you going to adopt a lobbyist position of no provable relationship between the number of northern Irish registered cars on our roads and largescale VRT avoidance. It took decades to get the smoking lobby to admit that smoking was a health risk. Are you more progressive?

OKenora

1494 inbound journeys per day spread out over the entire country

Statistics can be many things like in this case, totally wrong. I live on the border and would happily say that the amount of crossings inbound to the Republic from the North exceeds that per day at a single crossing point, which isn't even that big or busy. they do say in those stats that the figures are based on a sample of 4000 people......only 2000 traveling to the republic.

Read the stats you quoted fully then judge their accuracy. You also quote 500k as the figure for UK visits by cars, those stats actually number it at well over that. Cars come by car ferry too but you ignored that figure which is 3 times the size and only looked at the by road from Northern Ireland figure. Add in the fact that the average stay of these visitors is 5 days

5 days * 1.5 million visits / by 365

and you find that at any one time there are about 20,000 UK registered cars on the road in the Republic. To put that into perspective, thats more than the total of new VW cars registered for the years in the survey, but you would not think that seeing a new VW on the roads was rare or odd? 20,000 is about 3 times the number of large PSV vehicles on the roads, but buses are hardly a rare sight about Dublin now, are they ?

Or another comparison of 20000 cars, approximately for every 3 "07 D" registered cars you should see one UK registered car (presuming the stats have all increased equally from 2001), but for every "07 C" registered car you see you will see 2 Uk registered ones, presuming the whole "07 C" fleet of cars all come to Dublin on the same day (All Ireland Final, yeah sure :P ).

According to those stats you are actually far more likely to see a UK registration in Dublin than see a Cork one.

el tel

Well Mailman, if the standard of evidence to support your claim is the number of Northern Irish cars you spot on the way to work then who am I to argue with your extensive survey?

But in the remote chance you are in fact correct, the next time someone rants about the mad behaviour of Nordie registered cars in the Republic, they only need to be told that Mailman's Theory applies and that in all probability the driver is actually a Southerner :rolleyes:

ardmacha

There is a great deal of misinformation and prejudice on this thread, which is not to say that a lot of people are not abusing the system.

Just because a car is parked in a housing in the evening is not in itself proof of residence. A person may maintain normal residence in the North while staying 4 or 5 nights in the Republic, where you pay income tax has nothing whatsoever to do with it. You could be commuting daily and still pay income tax. People work on contracts etc for finite periods, which is especially common in the building industry which accounts for many of the people in NI working in Dublin. Students are considered resident in their country of origin, however long they attend institutions in the Republic.

The problem is that there is a clear economic incentive to keep a NI car if you are at all entitled to one. Among the large number of people who are so entitled, whatever the more prejudiced posters of this thread think, it becomes difficult to identify freeloaders.