[Article] Dual Carriageways to be re-classified as Motorways

mike65

Thumbs up!

Mike.

Solair

From an environmental perspective that might make some sense too as most cars are designed to be optimally efficient at about 120km/h i.e. normal motorway driving speed.

Now all we need is service stops on the motorways!!

mike65

Indeed

/me off to check the NRA website for mention of same.

...and finds! here and here (pdf)

Mike.

Skyhater

zaph wrote:

For the variable speed limits we'd need a better system of electronic road signs. Other than that obstacle, which knowing this country would take years to overcome, it make perfect sense when you see some idiot driving at high speed in a downpour.

Yea, Ideally all Motorway speed limit signs would be electronic (especially on busy motorways - like the M50), with the flick of a switch 120km/h could become 100 or 80 ,etc depending on the conditions.
However we could implement something OK straight away (....after appropriate Legislation), using the existing electronic warning signs on the M50.

In parts of France the don't even use electronic signs; they have one speed limit with a Sun symbol beside it, and the other with a Raining Cloud beside it. Of course this could never work in Ireland, can you imagine the arguments in court!!!

Chris_533976

Victor wrote:

Parts of this are very mediocre. Limited sight lines, lanes that just disappear, not hard should in places.

Plus the SRR has been set in stone for a while as an arterial route around the city. Would not be practical IMO to make it motorway. The restrictions on L drivers etc would just encourage ratrunning through estates.

Stark

Victor wrote:

Parts of this are very mediocre. Limited sight lines, lanes that just disappear, not hard should in places.

Ballincollig bypass would be a good candidate though I reckon.

I think part of the N25 heading east from Dunkettle and the N8 coming off the Fermoy bypass towards Dunkettle would also be good candidates.

Stark

spacetweek wrote:

N3 at Blanch,

Victor wrote:

No alternative.

I was going to suggest through Blanchardstown village, Mulhuddart and Damastown, although I think the Damastown road is private. In any case, wouldn't be worth the hassle for such a short stretch of dual carriageway I reckon. There are some dodgy slip road exits/entrances as well. The one at Mulhuddart on the southbound section would definitely be the one that causes the road to get denied motorway status I reckon.

Niall1234

Nice to see that common sense is starting to prevail.

Having the likes of cyclists and tractors travelling on interurbans at scandalously slow speeds is quite ridiculous.

Will Naas to Dublin be classified as Motorway but with a 100kph speed limit.

If you ask me, a 110kph speed limit should be brought in for DC which aren't up to the 120kph limit.

I would imagine the Cashel bypass won't get 120kph limit either.


On another note. I actually found it hard to believe that people were complaining about this. Hysterical stuff on the radio. People complaing about not be allowed to walk, cycle and extraordinarily even bring horses onto an Interurban. !!! Horses!!!

On the learner driver issue. A learners driver licence, is what it says it is. A licence given to a person to allow them to LEARN to drive. I'm sure that the number of learner drivers will have to be reduced before this N to M conversion en-masse will happen.

murphaph

There's also 2 private access just prior to that LILO heading southbound and across the road at roughly the same spot. The southbound (eastbound?) onslip from Damastown/Clonee trundles down with an almost immediate private access then almost immediately that LILO junction to Mulhuddart. Not up to par but if they removed the private access it would be superior to many urban motorways in the UK. I don't believe the N3 there will ever be reclassified as Fingal are tough on planning and the NRA don't have much to worry about wrt more private accesses (the two on it currently date from way back when the road was built under Dublin County Council IIRC).

Now, a contender in Dublin should be the rollercoaster Chapelizod Bypass. Not suitable for peds or cyclists IMO.

Stark

Niall1234 wrote:

On another note. I actually found it hard to believe that people were complaining about this. Hysterical stuff on the radio. People complaing about not be allowed to walk, cycle and extraordinarily even bring horses onto an Interurban. !!! Horses!!!

You'll always find someone to complain about something. Next it'll be increased emissions from cars going faster. Not to mention the children.

jd

Niall1234 wrote:

On another note. I actually found it hard to believe that people were complaining about this. Hysterical stuff on the radio. People complaing about not be allowed to walk, cycle and extraordinarily even bring horses onto an Interurban. !!! Horses!!!
.

What show was this?

Niall1234

Matt Cooper yesterday. He was reading out texts. I don't think he would possibley leave anyone to speak on air with such views.

No wonder progress is so slow in this country when a percentage of the people hold such strange views.

Next we'll have road safety activists complaining about the speed limit going up on roads which were originally built to the higher speed limit.

In fact, HQDC's were built to 130 kph standard and no just 120 kph standard.

mike65

You can tell there is no driving culture here yet.

Mike.

jd

spacetweek wrote:

Agreed - for example, it says that the "entire" route from Dublin to Wexford will be motorway. The Wicklow-Gorey section is a possibility, but definitely not Bray-Wicklow: even the new sections of the N11 along there are not up to full spec.

Even the "New" Asford/Rathnew section? I thought it was built to HQDC standard, what is the problem with it?

Chris_533976

I guess what they might do is reclassify the lot as motorway, but put 100kmh limits on the older bits that arent up to HQDC, but which dont have local access and have an alternate.

Niall1234

Chris_533976 wrote:

I guess what they might do is reclassify the lot as motorway, but put 100kmh limits on the older bits that arent up to HQDC, but which dont have local access and have an alternate.

That's what I'm hoping they'll go with the whole bloody lot. Every DC where possible. Will keep the likes of tractors and cyclists off the roads which IMO, are mostly a driving hazard.

Victor

Stark wrote:

I think part of the N25 heading east from Dunkettle

No meaningful alternative from the (old) Dunkettle roundabout to Little Island.

and the N8 coming off the Fermoy bypass towards Dunkettle would also be good candidates.

Lots of vehicles have trouble gaining speed on the long, steep slopes of the Glanmire Bypass. Having some Rocket Man up their rear may not be good.

Stark wrote:

I was going to suggest through Blanchardstown village, Mulhuddart and Damastown, although I think the Damastown road is private.

There is also the matter of the interchange with the M50.

Niall1234 wrote:

That's what I'm hoping they'll go with the whole bloody lot. Every DC where possible. Will keep the likes of tractors and cyclists off the roads which IMO, are mostly a driving hazard.

Hmm, thats a peculiar way to put it.

How many 'boy racers' wrap a tractor around a lamp post at 3am?

Niall1234

Tractors hold up the outside lane of a DC. This cause long tailbacks in that lane under heavy traffic.

The traffic will try to overtake him cause a lot of traffic into the inside lane.

Due to this, people in the outside will try to merge into the inside lane. Considering the amount of cars prob wanting to do so, there would be high chance of an accident, especially if a frustrated driver could not get into the inside lane.

BTW, I haven't heard of many boy racers having big ones on DC's or Motorways.


On the glanmire bypass. There is no way that that section of road will ever be given a 120kph speed limit. If it were given Motorway status (which I hope it will), it will almost certainly be given a 100 kph limit.

BTW, why is a rocket man up your back, maybe doing 120 when your doing 100, more dangerous than a 100 kph coming up to a 35 kph tractor ?

Chris_533976

Victor wrote:

No meaningful alternative from the (old) Dunkettle roundabout to Little Island.

The roundabout at Dunkettle to the tunnel roundabout - theres no **real** alternative to that bit... unless you take a colossal detour through Glanmire. But from tunnel roundabout to Little Island to Carrigtwohill there is reasonable alternatives.

flogen

Just wanted to check something - the old Swords road / Dublin Road which runs kind of parallel with the M1 from the airport onwards to Balbriggan - would that be made into a motorway too?

Victor

flogen wrote:

Just wanted to check something - the old Swords road / Dublin Road which runs kind of parallel with the M1 from the airport onwards to Balbriggan - would that be made into a motorway too?

No, only select sections (those with motorway characteristics) would be. Otherwise Baggot Street and O'Connell Street would become motorways.

murphaph

no

Niall1234

I'd imagine that if Dunkettle to Carrigtowhill was reclassified to Motorway, then the section between the Dunkettle Roundabout and Dunkettle Interchange would still stay as National route due to the obvious alternative route predicament and for access to the Lee Tunnel for learners.

flogen

Victor wrote:

No, only select sections (those with motorway characteristics) would be. Otherwise Baggot Street and O'Connell Street would become motorways.

Ah right... fair enough. It would be a bit of a pain if they did, as that road is probably used heavily by L-drivers going in that direction (including the girlfriend!)

ardmacha

and for access to the Lee Tunnel for learners.

Why should learners need access to the Lee Tunnel, are there not other places in Cork where you can learn to drive? This concept that learner drivers have to be allowed drive everywhere has to end, a provisional licence is a means of learning to drive, not a means of being able to drive from A to B. The qualified person accompanying the learner can drive through the tunnel if they want to cross the Lee.

Stark

Learners aren't the only motorway forbidden road users that need to get from A to B.

SeanW

Niall1234 wrote:

BTW, why is a rocket man up your back, maybe doing 120 when your doing 100, more dangerous than a 100 kph coming up to a 35 kph tractor ?

Because on a dual carraigeway you have an inside lane? It's supposed, in theory, to be clear of normal (non overtaking) traffic, but you will normally find plenty of boy racers and other scoff-laws speeding in it.

I oppose this move because I think dual carraigeways make better by-passes - normal road rules and usually fewer tolls mean nothing or noone has to go through the town, or whatever passes for the "alternative" route.

Why should learners need access to the Lee Tunnel, are there not other places in Cork where you can learn to drive? This concept that learner drivers have to be allowed drive everywhere has to end, a provisional licence is a means of learning to drive, not a means of being able to drive from A to B.

Perhaps because it takes anything from 10 months to over a year to get a driving test? The L driver is an easy target on these boards and elsewhere it seems. But at least until we have a driver licensing system that functions, L drivers will always be with us.

I would much prefer that local authorities used their powers to apply special speed limits of 120kph to sections of HQDC. Would be much more practical.

jd

SeanW wrote:

I would much prefer that local authorities used their powers to apply special speed limits of 120kph to sections of HQDC. Would be much more practical.

I guess the main reason the NRA want the roads designated as motorways is to prevent development leading to access on to the carriageways. If I remember correctly, Clare Co. Council were granting planning permission for developments alongside National Roads, perhaps the NRA want to avoid a repeat of this.

Niall1234

Sean. Just a few points.

1. Tolls mean the roads are generally Motorways. Motorways do not mean the roads are generally tolled.
2. 120kph on N routes are a nice idea, but cars driving at 120 sharing traffic with tractors, cyclists and pedestrians is dangerous. This is why these vehicles are banned on motorways.
3. I agree regarding learner drivers. At present with such long waiting lists, learners will have to be given breathing room. Laws regarding leanrers can only really be implemented when you'll be able to get a driving test within a month or two of applying and when there will be less than 20,000 learners on our roads.

Chris_533976

jd wrote:

I guess the main reason the NRA want the roads designated as motorways is to prevent development leading to access on to the carriageways. If I remember correctly, Clare Co. Council were granting planning permission for developments alongside National Roads, perhaps the NRA want to avoid a repeat of this.

And having cyclists and tractors with 120kmh traffic bunching around them is dangerous.