you gotta love them Zionists

Akrasia

Bedouins Left Homeless Following Israeli Demolitions
In other news from Israel, at least one-hundred fifty people have been left homeless after Israeli forces destroyed at least twenty homes belonging to Bedouin-Arab villagers this week. The residents had been living in the desert Bedouin villages of Atir and Um Heiran for more than fifty years. Israeli officials say they’ve been trespassing on state property that will be turned into towns for Israeli citizens.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/28/1433201

I'm sure there will be plenty of Zionist supporters to come on here and say 'but there has never been a state called Bedouinia and they have no right to the land that Israel rightfully claim for themselves, but honestly, is there any justification for this kind of behaviour?

The Israelis claim that the Bedouins are trespassing on state lands, but the only reason they are there is because they were displaced in the 1948 war and had been placed there by the Israeli state in 1956

These demolitions are just the first of many as the two villages have a combined population of about 1000 people who for 3 years have been resisting efforts to force them into inner city ghettos to make room for Israeli zionist settlements on the land.

There are also a further 43 'unrecognised' villages in the Negrev desert all of whom risk the same treatment should their land ever become desirable to the first class citizens of Israel.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/IRIN/15a8af77380d45bdb866477fbd1c2bf8.htm

O'Leprosy

Akrasia wrote:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/28/1433201

I'm sure there will be plenty of Zionist supporters to come on here and say 'but there has never been a state called Bedouinia and they have no right to the land that Israel rightfully claim for themselves, but honestly, is there any justification for this kind of behaviour?

The Israelis claim that the Bedouins are trespassing on state lands, but the only reason they are there is because they were displaced in the 1948 war and had been placed there by the Israeli state in 1956

These demolitions are just the first of many as the two villages have a combined population of about 1000 people who for 3 years have been resisting efforts to force them into inner city ghettos to make room for Israeli zionist settlements on the land.

There are also a further 43 'unrecognised' villages in the Negrev desert all of whom risk the same treatment should their land ever become desirable to the first class citizens of Israel.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/IRIN/15a8af77380d45bdb866477fbd1c2bf8.htm

South Africa during apartheid wasn't nearly as bad, - and ofcourse the isreali's were the only country in the world that sold S.A. arms during this period. A case of one type of rascist regeime selling to another type of rascist regeime. How all of this cannot be called ethnic cleansing is beyond me :mad:

The Saint

They'll probably say that the bedoins are traditionally nomadic so they'll be happy to wander around looking for a new place to hang out. :rolleyes:

LostinBlanch

Don't Bedouins serve in the Israeli Defense Forces as well?

You'd think if you had people fighting along side you, you'd at least let them have somewhere to live.

Zebra3

O'Leprosy wrote:

How all of this cannot be called ethnic cleansing is beyond me :mad:

Because it's being carried out by Israel (a US proxy state).

Now if it was being carried out by Serbia (a traditional friend of Russia), different story.

philologos

O'Leprosy wrote:

How all of this cannot be called ethnic cleansing is beyond me :mad:

Because it's part of the "new anti-Semitism" to call it that.

wes

Hardly unexpected and will be swept under the rug by apologists.

Mick86

Akrasia wrote:

...but honestly, is there any justification for this kind of behaviour?

Not really.

Akrasia wrote:

The Israelis claim that the Bedouins are trespassing on state lands, but the only reason they are there is because they were displaced in the 1948 war and had been placed there by the Israeli state in 1956

That's actually the Palestinians you're thinking of.

Akrasia wrote:

These demolitions are just the first of many as the two villages have a combined population of about 1000 people who for 3 years have been resisting efforts to force them into inner city ghettos to make room for Israeli zionist settlements on the land.

There are also a further 43 'unrecognised' villages in the Negrev desert all of whom risk the same treatment should their land ever become desirable to the first class citizens of Israel.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/IRIN/15a8af77380d45bdb866477fbd1c2bf8.htm

In fairness the Israelis did offer to rehouse these people. The new housing mightn't be in a desireable area but that's life. Also in fairness, if a group of travellers in Ireland just decided to build a shanty town any old place without planning permission the Irish authorities would do basically the same thing as the Israelis. Hopefully the Gardai would use a little less of the iron fist but the Israelis don't do diplomacy. On the plus side they didn't bulldoze the houses with the inhabitants inside.

Dr_Teeth

Err.. a family of travellers were just paid millions for land they were just squatting on for only 20 years.

The Bedouins are an entire village of people who've been there for 50+ years, if that happened in Ireland the government would be putting in bus service, not demolishing the place. :P

Akrasia

Mick86 wrote:

That's actually the Palestinians you're thinking of.

No, it's also these particular Bedouin people. They were placed here by the Israelis, Ignored them for 50 years (even though they are Israeli Citizens) and now they are being evicted because the Zionists want to build jewish settlements on their villages.

In fairness the Israelis did offer to rehouse these people.

How nice of them to 'offer' to rehouse them into inner city ghettos and slums.

But don't you think it was a little bit unfair to simply turn up one day demolish their homes and leave 150 people homeless, presumably as a message to the rest of the village populations that they'd better 'cooperate' (do as they're told)
It's a total disgrace, mafia style behaviour

The new housing mightn't be in a desireable area but that's life.

It's called ethnic cleansing... but sure, that's life

Also in fairness, if a group of travellers in Ireland just decided to build a shanty town any old place without planning permission the Irish authorities would do basically the same thing as the Israelis.

No, the Israelis put them where they are. A better comparison would be if the Travellers were living in a permanent halting site for 50 years and then the state decided to unilaterally bulldoze their homes and force them to live in a slum hundreds of miles away.

Hopefully the Gardai would use a little less of the iron fist but the Israelis don't do diplomacy. On the plus side they didn't bulldoze the houses with the inhabitants inside.

On the plus side? On the plus side, at least Israel didn't Nuke the desert to get them out?

Sesshoumaru

wes wrote:

Hardly unexpected and will be swept under the rug by apologists.

I'm sure it will be picked up again by those who want to see Israel wiped off the map.

wes

Sesshoumaru wrote:

I'm sure it will be picked up again by those who want to see Israel wiped off the map.

So its ok to ethnically cleanse these people? Have these people tried to wipe Israel off the map?

What did they do that deserved the homes being destroyed? Being the wrong race is a piss poor excuse for destroying peoples homes and this is exactly what has happened.

Nice of you prove me completely right. Israel doing this has nothing to do with whatever there enemies are doing and doesn't make them safer.

Mick86

Well, I'm not going to try and defend the indefensible.

I would take the anti-Israeli arguments at face value if I thought that they were pro-Bedouin rather than an excuse to take a swipe at the Jews.

wes

Mick86 wrote:

Well, I'm not going to try and defend the indefensible.

I would take the anti-Israeli arguments at face value if I thought that they were pro-Bedouin rather than an excuse to take a swipe at the Jews.

:rolleyes: Well that didn't take long. Condemnation of ethnic cleansing doesn't mean anyone is taking a swipe at the Jews, but rather Israel's government.

Mick86

wes wrote:

:rolleyes: Well that didn't take long.

Maybe you should have read my first post.

Originally Posted by Akrasia
...but honestly, is there any justification for this kind of behaviour?.

Not really.

wes wrote:

Condemnation of ethnic cleansing doesn't mean anyone is taking a swipe at the Jews, but rather Israel's government.

Your actually condemning the Israeli police implementing Israeli planning laws. But ethnic cleansing sounds better for propaganda purposes. I notice that nobody highlighted the report that the homeless Bedouin were assisted by nearby Israeli villagers.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

wes

Mick86 wrote:

Your actually condemning the Israeli police implementing Israeli planning laws. But ethnic cleansing sounds better for propaganda purposes. I notice that nobody highlighted the report that the homeless Bedouin were assisted by nearby Israeli villagers.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

It is ethnic cleansing. Israels laws are racist simple as that. They discriminate against the Arab population. This very well known.

Again my condemnation is directed at government. The local villagers are decent people, thats great to hear. Still doesn't make the government effort to ethnically cleanse the Bedouins any less wrong.

Also Israel builds plenty of illegal settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Seems to me that laws only matter when there to Israel's benefit.

Mick86

wes wrote:

It is ethnic cleansing. Israels laws are racist simple as that. They discriminate against the Arab population. This very well known.

Again my condemnation is directed at government. The local villagers are decent people, thats great to hear. Still doesn't make the government effort to ethnically cleanse the Bedouins any less wrong.

So you condemn the Israeli government forcing Jews to abandon their illegal settlements in Gaza as well then.

wes

Mick86 wrote:

So you condemn the Israeli government forcing Jews to abandon their illegal settlements in Gaza as well then.

Removing colonies in Gaza is very different.

Akrasia

Mick86 wrote:

Your actually condemning the Israeli police implementing Israeli planning laws. But ethnic cleansing sounds better for propaganda purposes. I notice that nobody highlighted the report that the homeless Bedouin were assisted by nearby Israeli villagers.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I never actually saw that report, But I do certainly applaud the actions of those villagers (if you are representing the situation correctly). Because I'm not anti semitic, I'm anti asshole.

The Israeli police aren't just 'implementing Israeli planning laws' They were clearing out the arab population to make room for a zionist settlement. That is ethnic cleansing. What else can you describe it as?

The Official Israeli response has been that they don't want the Bedouins to be living in the desert where there are no services, but that's ridiculous, because they're perfectly prepared to provide services to that exact part of the desert, just not for Bedouins, only for Zionist settlers.

kmick

Mick86 wrote:

I notice that nobody highlighted the report that the homeless Bedouin were assisted by nearby Israeli villagers.

Yeah they helped them get on the bus (at gunpoint)

Akrasia

Mick86 wrote:

So you condemn the Israeli government forcing Jews to abandon their illegal settlements in Gaza as well then.

It's a completely different situation. The Zionists who are moving into 'settlements' in Gaza are doing so for imperial reasons, specifically to force out the local population and take it for themselves.

They Shouldn't be there, their presence is Immoral. The Bedouins on the other hand had been forced to settle in the desert by the Israelis themselves who were perfectly prepared to abandon them there with no services for 50 years until they decided that they wanted that land for themselves, and now want to Force them to move to inner city Ghettos where services and social problems are just as bad if not worse than where they are now.

The zionist settlers in Gaza and the west bank are the oppressors, they can't claim to be oppressed when their plans to invade are temporarily thwarted.

Mick86

wes wrote:

Removing colonies in Gaza is very different.

No it isn't.

Israelis settlers built illegal settlements in Gaza. They were forcibly moved by the Israeli government and rightly so.

Bedouin settlers built illegal settlements in Israel. They were forcibly moved by the Israeli government who should have shown a lot more humanity in doing so.

Essentially the two events are the same.

Akrasia wrote:

The Israeli police aren't just 'implementing Israeli planning laws' They were clearing out the arab population to make room for a zionist settlement. That is ethnic cleansing. What else can you describe it as?

Urban planning.

Anyway these kind of anti-Israeli discussions are just boring. See you in the next cartoon.

philologos

Mick86 wrote:

Bedouin settlers built illegal settlements in Israel. They were forcibly moved by the Israeli government who should have shown a lot more humanity in doing so.

I thought the Bedouin were given Israeli Arab citizenship?

wes

Mick86 wrote:

No it isn't.

Israelis settlers built illegal settlements in Gaza. They were forcibly moved by the Israeli government and rightly so.

Bedouin settlers built illegal settlements in Israel. They were forcibly moved by the Israeli government who should have shown a lot more humanity in doing so.

Essentially the two events are the same.

Akrasia spelled out the difference between them in great detail, but sure no harm in me giving a go.

Removal of Israels colonies are very different to what is being done to the Bedouins. The colonies are a part of an invasion, its a world of difference between the 2.

jonny72

Mick86 wrote:

Anyway these kind of anti-Israeli discussions are just boring. See you in the next cartoon.

Anti-Israeli, Anti-American.. wonder why those phrases were invented?

Its like someone discussing Zimbabwe and someone else retorts "these kind of anti-Zimbabwe discussions are boring".

Sesshoumaru

jonny72 wrote:

Anti-Israeli, Anti-American.. wonder why those phrases were invented?

Its like someone discussing Zimbabwe and someone else retorts "these kind of anti-Zimbabwe discussions are boring".

Maybe because some people abandon logic and reason when discussing these countries? Why is Israel being held to higher standards than other countries? Why don't we have stories about China(a frequent human rights abuser) posted as often on boards.ie? Mick86 is right these Anti-Israeli rant fests are just getting boring at this stage.

jonny72

Sesshoumaru wrote:

Maybe because some people abandon logic and reason when discussing these countries? Why is Israel being held to higher standards than other countries? Why don't we have stories about China(a frequent human rights abuser) posted as often on boards.ie? Mick86 is right these Anti-Israeli rant fests are just getting boring at this stage.

Then post a story about China if you want. If you do, I won't dismiss your entire argument by calling you anti-Chinese. That would be ridiculous.

If some people are just abandoning "logic and reason" when it comes to Israel as you say, then it should be fairly easy for you to counter their arguments.

Sesshoumaru

I think its a fair question to ask why Israel is being singled out? The list of countries where human rights abuses are taking place is almost endless. Yet some people seem to have a special place in their hearts for Israel. Why is that?

Dr_Teeth

What, is that the Israeli's argument? "It's not fair that you hold us to such a high standard, so we're off to do some ethnic cleansing". Is that it? Maybe you should talk to them first..

The Saint

Sesshoumaru wrote:

I think its a fair question to ask why Israel is being singled out? The list of countries where human rights abuses are taking place is almost endless. Yet some people seem to have a special place in their hearts for Israel. Why is that?

Let me have a go at trying to answer this.
Israel is a self professed liberal democracy so therefore it it rightfully held to a higher standard than other totalitarian regimes and tinpot dictators on that endless list of countries that carry out human rights abuses. Israel is western and European/American focused so we therefore expect it to act as European and American states do as they profess having the same values(although this does not say much for the US or some European countries). There is also many threads opened about the US actions in Iraq, Guantanamo, etc, so does that mean the US is being singled out for special criticism because people are anti-American or for similar reasons that I have stated above?

Israel is also presiding over the longest running illegal occupation in the world today and continually violates international law and UN resolutions (can't think of any other country that does it to the same extent or anywhere near it). It caused the largest and longest running unresolved refugee crises in the world. Israel is fully supported by the largest power in the world as well as supported by most other western governments. Israel is percieved as not wanting peace but expansion which I think is easily domonstrable therefore perpetuating the situation.

As for the other countries that carry out human rights abuses; I'm quite happy to condemn them too and I have done so in other threads. Open one and I'll be happy to contribute. I think it's perfectly legitimate to criticise any government that does wrong. Labeling people as anti-Israeli or anti-American is created to stifle debate and has its origins in totalitarian regimes such as the Soviet Union (antisovietism). Because some people place more emphasis on Israels abuses than they do to other places doesn't negate the arguement. Calling it anti-Israeli is just refusing to engage in and changing the direction of the debate. This also places emphasis on being anti-some state which encompases in it its population as opposed to being anti-the policies of the government in that state.

karen3212

Why I am more likely to pick on Western governments. Well I am in the western world. I think it's the hypocrisy of the West that makes me sick. Well, it's like they say, you're just nuts if you want to kill and die to spread communism or religion. But, we profess to hold human rights above all else, but some of us still think it's ok and noble to kill and die to spread the ideology of freedom.

The hypocrisy of the thing, makes me sick.

Also, by letting planes land at our airport in Shannon, we are passively supporting US torture of enemy combatants, are we not? Therefore I think people here naturally pick on the West first and on their well funded allies.

I am not anti-semitic.

I am anti any ideology that has the people thinking it's ok to kill and die for an ideology.

williambonney

The cold hard fact of the matter is that the Jews in Israel, (I don’t use the term isralei because not all inhabitants of Israel are Jews.) are engaged in genocide against the Palestinian people. How do they get away with this? And forever non-complying with UN resolutions? Because the big kid on the block, (the USA) allows them to do as they please.

The Saint

williambonney wrote:

The cold hard fact of the matter is that the Jews in Israel, (I don’t use the term isralei because not all inhabitants of Israel are Jews.) are engaged in genocide against the Palestinian people. How do they get away with this? And forever non-complying with UN resolutions? Because the big kid on the block, (the USA) allows them to do as they please.

There are plenty of Jews in Israel are that are against the occupation and the policies of the government. It is not accurate to paint all Isreali Jews with the same brush. There is probably more vocal opposition within Israel of the occupation than there is in many parts of the world, especially the US.

Akrasia

Sesshoumaru wrote:

Maybe because some people abandon logic and reason when discussing these countries? Why is Israel being held to higher standards than other countries? Why don't we have stories about China(a frequent human rights abuser) posted as often on boards.ie? Mick86 is right these Anti-Israeli rant fests are just getting boring at this stage.

You show me another country engaged in this kind of behaviour and I will be just as vehement in condemning their actions.

You have refused to engage in the issues, You don't even try to defend Israel's actions anymore, instead you resort to ad hominem attacks accusing people of racism and prejudice. You are the one who is boring and unproductive and totally predictable.

wes

The Saint wrote:

There are plenty of Jews in Israel are that are against the occupation and the policies of the government. It is not accurate to paint all Isreali Jews with the same brush. There is probably more vocal opposition within Israel of the occupation than there is in many parts of the world, especially the US.

This is very true, most Israeli's are actually far more reasonable than people who defend stuff like this are, It boggles the mind sometimes, that there is more debate about this stuff in Israel, than the US for instance. the Israeli's are for the most part good people (like pretty much any group), there Zionist governments, is where the problem lies and always has.

Akrasia

williambonney wrote:

The cold hard fact of the matter is that the Jews in Israel, (I don’t use the term isralei because not all inhabitants of Israel are Jews.) are engaged in genocide against the Palestinian people. How do they get away with this? And forever non-complying with UN resolutions? Because the big kid on the block, (the USA) allows them to do as they please.

That's a terrible thing to say. That is an example of an anti semitic attitude.
Not all Israelis are Jews, that part is true, but to suggest that all Jews are genocidal is a disgrace.

The reason I use the word Zionist instead of jewish is because it separates those who support the actions of the Israeli state, from the large number of jewish people who utterly condemn their violent nationalism

Dr_Teeth

Akrasia wrote:

The reason I use the word Zionist instead of jewish is because it separates those who support the actions of the Israeli state, from the large number of jewish people who utterly condemn their violent nationalism

I'd really like to see some of these people.. I don't remember seeing any protests from Israelis when they started bombing Lebanon last year. I didn't see any protests at all until the war started going badly, and then the argument wasn't about whether it was right or wrong, but how to do it better.

The Israeli polls at the start of that particular action were over 90% in favour, so where are these "large number of jewish people who utterly condemn their violent nationalism"?

Groups like this: http://www.seruv.org.il/english/default.asp that I support are a tiny minority.. almost no Israelis would refuse to serve in the occupied territories or in Lebanon if called up.

nacho libre

Mick86 wrote:

In fairness the Israelis did offer to rehouse these people. The new housing mightn't be in a desireable area but that's life. Also in fairness, if a group of travellers in Ireland just decided to build a shanty town any old place without planning permission the Irish authorities would do basically the same thing as the Israelis. Hopefully the Gardai would use a little less of the iron fist but the Israelis don't do diplomacy. On the plus side they didn't bulldoze the houses with the inhabitants inside.

ah that makes it allright then. We should be thankful they extended this courtesy to them.

nacho libre

jonny72 wrote:

Anti-Israeli, Anti-American.. wonder why those phrases were invented?

Its like someone discussing Zimbabwe and someone else retorts "these kind of anti-Zimbabwe discussions are boring".

Anytime there is legitimate criticism of Israeli human rights violations on this board there just isn't enough mudslinging by the apologists to deflect the criticism. yet on a recent post abour Darfur many people condemning what's going on there were rightly accused of being anti-arab/anti-semitic by others. Where is the consistency?

Sesshoumaru

Akrasia wrote:

You show me another country engaged in this kind of behaviour and I will be just as vehement in condemning their actions.

You have refused to engage in the issues, You don't even try to defend Israel's actions anymore, instead you resort to ad hominem attacks accusing people of racism and prejudice. You are the one who is boring and unproductive and totally predictable.

China in Tibet I suppose? How many Chinese have they shipped into that country since they conquered it? A couple of million at this stage. Seems to be plenty of genocide happening in Africa as well.

I just don't see any genocide happening in the West Bank or Gaza. I thought genocide meant wiping out an entire people? If that was Israel's aim they are going about it all wrong. When Hitler wanted to wipe out the Jews he created camps for it and shipped them in with trains. Far more efficient. I see a continual state of low level warfare being conducted. What do people expect? Israel is either facing Islamic terrorists like Hamas or corrupt terrorists like Fatah. There is no one to negotiate with on the Palestinian side that doesn't want to see every last Jew driven into the ocean.

Padraig Mor

Sesshoumaru wrote:

There is no one to negotiate with on the Palestinian side that doesn't want to see every last Jew driven into the ocean.

That myth (maybe I should call it libel?) has already been conclusively disproved in the 'Palestinian infighting' thread. Of course you and your "I love Israel" buddies took your ball and left that thread when your claims were rubbished with *facts*...

BTW the whole argument that Israel is held to higher standards than other countries is clearly disingenous given that it is clearly allowed to get away with actions that are condemned in other countries.

Sesshoumaru

Padraig Mor wrote:

That myth (maybe I should call it libel?) has already been conclusively disproved in the 'Palestinian infighting' thread. Of course you and your "I love Israel" buddies took your ball and left that thread when your claims were rubbished with *facts*...

BTW the whole argument that Israel is held to higher standards than other countries is clearly disingenous given that it is clearly allowed to get away with actions that are condemned in other countries.

It was only accepted as fact by those that already think Israel is the root of all evil in this world. Most of your arguments went along the lines of "while TECHNICALLY true that want to destroy Israel..... but but but".

hamas = terrorists
fatah = terrorists

I have yet to see any of these so called moderate palestinians.

williambonney

The Jewish state Israel, (and before anyone jumps down my throat,) it IS a Jewish state, are terrorists, murderers and torturers. They ignore UN resolutions, and invade and kill as they please. Lebanon, cluster bombs etc. Why do they do this? Because they can, the USA allows them to. Like all bullies, they will some day get their comeuppance

philologos

Sesshoumaru wrote:

There is no one to negotiate with on the Palestinian side that doesn't want to see every last Jew driven into the ocean.

That isn't true at all. Fatah are ready at any stage, and to be honest I think we'd all prefer a secular Palestine at this time. If only the Mossad hadn't set up Hamas now eh?

Akrasia

Sesshoumaru wrote:

It was only accepted as fact by those that already think Israel is the root of all evil in this world. Most of your arguments went along the lines of "while TECHNICALLY true that want to destroy Israel..... but but but".

And Ireland 'technically' wanted to drive the British out of Ireland (it was in our constitution until the good friday agreement)
Does that mean the British had nobody to negotiate with regarding 'the troubles'

Hamas were engaging politically, they were entering a new phase. They had announced a ceasefire and stopped all attacks. What does Israel do? completely cuts off all ties with the Palestinian Authority, increases the economic blockade and sets up a coup (recently completed) to foment a civil war, meanwhile they continue their land grab in Palestine

johnnyskeleton

Akrasia wrote:

It's a completely different situation. The Zionists who are moving into 'settlements' in Gaza are doing so for imperial reasons, specifically to force out the local population and take it for themselves.

They Shouldn't be there, their presence is Immoral. The Bedouins on the other hand had been forced to settle in the desert by the Israelis themselves who were perfectly prepared to abandon them there with no services for 50 years until they decided that they wanted that land for themselves, and now want to Force them to move to inner city Ghettos where services and social problems are just as bad if not worse than where they are now.

The zionist settlers in Gaza and the west bank are the oppressors, they can't claim to be oppressed when their plans to invade are temporarily thwarted.

Kinda like Dublin people buying up land in Wicklow, Kildare and Meath.

Akrasia

johnnyskeleton wrote:

Kinda like Dublin people buying up land in Wicklow, Kildare and Meath.

A bit like that, only the dublin people don't bring the army with them to set up blockades and checkpoints all around their gated settlements and make the lives of the local people a living hell

Padraig Mor

Sesshoumaru wrote:

It was only accepted as fact by those that already think Israel is the root of all evil in this world. Most of your arguments went along the lines of "while TECHNICALLY true that want to destroy Israel..... but but but"..

Well TBH I didn't see any serious arguments (your 'Jew conspiracy' fantasy didn't really count I'm afraid) put against my belief so we'll take it that it was accepted as fact by all will we? I can go on but Akrasia seems to have already pointed out the necessary. I also note that, in typical Israeli supporter fashion, you are misrepresenting the arguments of the 'other side' AGAIN.

Sesshoumaru wrote:

hamas = terrorists
fatah = terrorists

I have yet to see any of these so called moderate palestinians.

Well, perhaps you should look a bit further than an "All Palestinians/Arabs/etc. are terrorists" world outlook.

Sesshoumaru

Akrasia wrote:

And Ireland 'technically' wanted to drive the British out of Ireland (it was in our constitution until the good friday agreement)
Does that mean the British had nobody to negotiate with regarding 'the troubles'

Hamas were engaging politically, they were entering a new phase. They had announced a ceasefire and stopped all attacks. What does Israel do? completely cuts off all ties with the Palestinian Authority, increases the economic blockade and sets up a coup (recently completed) to foment a civil war, meanwhile they continue their land grab in Palestine

The Irish didn't have a holy book that said god made the British out of rats now did they? You can't compare the Irish to Hamas.

I love it when hamas announce a ceasefire. It is only ever technically a ceasefire. You will always find "other groups" launching rockets and attacks at Israel during these so called ceasefires.

wes

Sesshoumaru wrote:

The Irish didn't have a holy book that said god made the British out of rats now did they? You can't compare the Irish to Hamas.

Do you have a quote? I assume you talking about the Koran. Its first I heard about this. As far as Muslims creation myth goes, its the same as the Christians and Jews one, in that all Humans are descended from Adam and Eve.

Sesshoumaru

Padraig Mor wrote:

Well TBH I didn't see any serious arguments (your 'Jew conspiracy' fantasy didn't really count I'm afraid) put against my belief so we'll take it that it was accepted as fact by all will we? I can go on but Akrasia seems to have already pointed out the necessary. I also note that, in typical Israeli supporter fashion, you are misrepresenting the arguments of the 'other side' AGAIN.

Well, perhaps you should look a bit further than an "All Palestinians/Arabs/etc. are terrorists" world outlook.

No we won't accept it as fact. I'm telling you I don't accept it. There now, you can no longer say accepted as fact by all I think most people who stand up for Israel just ignored your post. Our positions are about a million miles apart Padraig Mor. I don't have time for lost causes and I'm sure others feel the same.