racism

funloving

I know it's something very hard to admit but...do you think Irish people are racist?

I experienced a lot of bad things but I don't wanna think Irish are racist...I prefer thinking I only met an idiot whose nationality doesn't matter!

Believe me...it's a very bad thing to experience and it reduced me to tears many times.

Deadevil129

I've met around three really really strong racists before, but I wouldn't put it down to the fact their Irish. In fact, these people were usually very very insecure people with an awful lot of issues.I think the racism you usually meet in Ireland is more down to ignorance, ie "Damn Polish/Russian/Chinese comming in here and taking all our jobs" rather than cold blooded hatred of another race.

On another slightly related note I've found the Irish to be a lot more understanding of physical disability than other races. My Dad has parkinsons and people are incredible helpful over here. No stares or anything and they're always willing to help. On the other hand when we've gone abroad to Italy, Spain or Portugal all we receive is blank stares and occasionally people laughing. Now that really makes my blood boil.

But that's just my two cents.

Zzippy

In spite of what we like to think - that we are a welcoming tolerant nation, we have as many racists here as anywhere else. The attitudes of some Irish people are very disappointing. Most Irish people are not racist, sure many of them are confused at all the changes in Irish society, but not intrinsically racist. There is a minority who are actively racist, just like in most countries that have experienced immigration, and I don't think there is much you can do about that.

OP I'm sorry you have experienced this, but please remember most Irish people despise racism and would not agree with what was done to you. I hope more of us will be brave enough to stand up to these racists when they see something happen - " all it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

Maple

I don't think the Irish are more racist than any other country. Yes you do get some rascists here but no more so than in the rest of the world.

funloving

I had my uncle on a wheelchair and I remember those stares you're talking about.
Here in Italy it's common that people think that if they help they can be considered nosy in fact when I once tried to help a woman she told me"mind your own business" and that shocked me a lot!

I think some people are ignorant and stupid and they find hard to deal with something new or differert from them.
In work, a woman didn't want me to help her with her bills and stuff and she said "I am not talking to you as you're not Irish"....
I remember that I got shocked by that...

Not all the foreigners come to Ireland for a job or coz they're desperate...maybe we simply chose a place we like or we moved to stay closer to our family or partner....

x Purple Pawprints x

Yeah some Irish people are racist but you can't tar all of us with the same brush because that's not fair. It's the same with every country, some are idiots but most aren't.

x Purple Pawprints x

It's also true of other, things not just racism.

kmick

I think there is a lot of racism going on worldwide and Ireland is no exception. To be honest the kind of people who hate 'foreigners' are the kind of people who hate everyone. If its not foreigners its northsiders and if not northsiders its culchies and if not culchies its travellers and if its not travellers its disabled people.

What you need to do is become more thick skinned. Understand that these people also despise themselves. A wise man once said is what you hate about someone else is what you hate about yourself.

As there is a lot of hate mentioned in my thread let me lighten up and say welcome to Ireland. I wish everyone the best regardless of the begrudgers.

x Purple Pawprints x

I agree with Deadevil129.

Sangre

People are racist.

Think of it as an early warning sign to avoid morons and idiots.

funloving

I met wonderful Irish people as well and I wrote in my first post that I think racism doesn't depend on whose nationality you are from!
I believe it's true that cultures are different and that's what I love about it.
I study diplomatic sciences that's why I am so interested in this topic as well as having a personal interest in that

newestUser

kmick wrote:

To be honest the kind of people who hate 'foreigners' are the kind of people who hate everyone. If its not foreigners its northsiders and if not northsiders its culchies and if not culchies its travellers and if its not travellers its disabled people.

What you need to do is become more thick skinned. Understand that these people also despise themselves. A wise man once said is what you hate about someone else is what you hate about yourself.

I think that there are many racists in Ireland. But this is true everywhere in the world. The above is true because most of the racists I've met hate everyone (artists, students, teachers, junior doctors, entrepreneurs, their boss, the kids next door, and on and on and on).

Many people portray racists as being unintelligent losers who hate their lives. I'm living in a flat share with an accountant who is educated, works in a good job, is very confident, and who also is highly racist. He explicitly says that we're not to take in foreign people when we're filling a room, mocks foreigners on the tv, complains that "only fvcking Polish cvnts are applying for jobs in my company" or something similar. Racism is everywhere, regardless of what country you're in, the prestige of the job you work in, or the intelligence of the people around you. But it's usually groundless, and it's a mindset held by chronic assholes or people who have anger issues.

Beruthiel

funloving, this is not a PI, please read the Forum Charter.
Moved to Humanities.

radioactiveman

I think we do have a problem with racism in Ireland but exactly how bad it is compared to other countries is hard to say. Where I work there is a lot of discrimination against travellers, some of it is beyond belief. It's just an incredible lack of kop on.. that's against irish people themselves! I've heard comments as well about jewish people, africans, you name it.. stuff worthy of Borat. You'd wonder where exactly do they get these ideas?
Although the people who come out with that stuff - if you take it case by case they all have their own 'issues'!!......

Bottle_of_Smoke

I think they are. Moreso "unthinkingly racist" though.

I look like bit oriental & someone once said "not to be bad.... but are you like chinese or something"

Another time in a restaurant I ordered food & the woman was like "Oh god I thought you were chinese there" Even my friend who was with me was acting as if I should be offended.

Get more outright racist comments from Skangers, shout "chink" etc.

As someone mentioned - people are racist.

Killaqueen!!!

I agree with whats been said. Obviousluy racisim is a terrible thing and I think we've all experienced some nasty people who have an issue with other peoples race. It is the same all over the world, I don't think Ireland is particularly bad.

That said, I think a lot more people are not politically correct here in Ireland, myself included. I don't agree with being overly sensitive and politically correct, I think we can all have a laugh without any nastiness intended. For example, I make jokes about my friend (he is black, and origionally from Nigeria) and he would make jokes about me being white, and Irish (therefore a leprechaun and a permanant drunk! I guess it's a personal thing, that you have to be careful about. i just don't believe in being offended by jokes, but then again I am one who bases my whole life around humour.

Anyway...

nacho libre

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

I agree with whats been said. Obviousluy racisim is a terrible thing and I think we've all experienced some nasty people who have an issue with other peoples race. It is the same all over the world, I don't think Ireland is particularly bad.

That said, I think a lot more people are not politically correct here in Ireland, myself included. I don't agree with being overly sensitive and politically correct, I think we can all have a laugh without any nastiness intended. For example, I make jokes about my friend (he is black, and origionally from Nigeria) and he would make jokes about me being white, and Irish (therefore a leprechaun and a permanant drunk! I guess it's a personal thing, that you have to be careful about. i just don't believe in being offended by jokes, but then again I am one who bases my whole life around humour.

Anyway...

at the risk of taking this off-topic. would you be offended if you were told a joke about the holocaust or paedophilia?


"Understand that these people also despise themselves. A wise man once said is what you hate about someone else is what you hate about yourself."

Projection. People with extreme right-wing views are usually the masters at this particular piece of psychological deception;)

Killaqueen!!!

nacho libre wrote:

at the risk of taking this off-topic. would you be offended if you were told a joke about the holocaust or paedophilia?

I wouldn't but I know others would. For example, I found Bernard Manning hilarious wheras others found him disgusting. Does that make me racist? I don't look down on people because of their race or religion. I'm not nasty to people of other races simply because of the colour of their skin. I would find racist jokes hilarious if they are good, just as I would find any other joke funny if it was good.

Here's an example of a joke that's funny to me (when I first heard it, mind you. It's not so funny typing it down).

Two people are having sex. The female is taking it up the arse. "Ow!", she says. So he takes it out, lubes it up and goes in again. "Ow, the pain is excrutiating", she says. "Excrutiating?!", the man replies.

"That's a very big word for a 6 year old."

hahahaha! So wrong...

nacho libre

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

I wouldn't but I know others would. For example, I found Bernard Manning hilarious wheras others found him disgusting. Does that make me racist? I don't look down on people because of their race or religion. I'm not nasty to people of other races simply because of the colour of their skin. I would find racist jokes hilarious if they are good, just as I would find any other joke funny if it was good.

Here's an example of a joke that's funny to me (when I first heard it, mind you. It's not so funny typing it down).

Two people are having sex. The female is taking it up the arse. "Ow!", she says. So he takes it out, lubes it up and goes in again. "Ow, the pain is excrutiating", she says. "Excrutiating?!", the man replies.

"That's a very big word for a 6 year old."

hahahaha! So wrong...

Yes it's funny because it doesn't affect you. i'm sure if you had been abused you would not find the joke amusing. I think what Woody Allen said about black humour is correct- it's nothing more than a subconscious defense mechanism to deal with the randomness of life.

WindSock

I think everybody is a little bit Racist. Some obviously more than others. I hate the self righteousness of the ones that go on and on about things that aren't racist, then they make slurs or avoid foreign people for no good reason themselves. I myself am guilty of being racist at times. I don't treat anyone like ****, but I mock accents and things (if that is Racist?) Human Nature, in my opinion.

nonbeliever

Us Irish have a long history of racism. Its actually quite sick but i think we are getting better. I dont think we are as racist as we once were

nonbeliever

nonbeliever wrote:

Us Irish have a long history of racism. Its actually quite sick but i think we are getting better. I dont think we are as racist as we once were

I actually take it back after talkin to a few people on here. We are still racist xenophobic bigots and it is a disgrace.

Tim Robbins

funloving wrote:

I know it's something very hard to admit but...do you think Irish people are racist?

I experienced a lot of bad things but I don't wanna think Irish are racist...I prefer thinking I only met an idiot whose nationality doesn't matter!

Believe me...it's a very bad thing to experience and it reduced me to tears many times.

I am pro diversity and I am pro immigration but I think it's funny to hear some of the upper middle class liberals telling us all how great they think immigration is - why because you can employ staff for cheaper and get an electrician for your house?

I think it's important we think immigration is right for the right reasons.
Part of that includes that means ensuring that these people get a fair deal and just forced into an underclass.

Karl Hungus

nonbeliever wrote:

We are still racist xenophobic bigots and it is a disgrace.

"Hi, I'm against racism, I think it's totally awful and the worst thing in the word, but this doesn't stop me doing the exact same thing as racists would and tar an entire country, as 'racist xenophobic bigots'!"

Played.

seahorse

I came across this quote recently on the internet. Obviously as a white woman in a predominantly white society I've not experienced racism first hand here. I'll embolden the line that moved me so much:

“But when you have seen vicious mobs lynch your mothers and fathers at will and drown your sisters and brothers at whim; when you have seen hate-filled policemen curse, kick and even kill your black brothers and sisters; when you see the vast majority of your twenty million Negro brothers smothering in an airtight cage of poverty in the midst of an affluent society; when you suddenly find your tongue twisted and your speech stammering as you seek to explain to your six-year-old daughter why she can't go to the public amusement park that has just been advertised on television, and see tears welling up in her eyes when she is told that Funtown is closed to colored children, and see ominous clouds of inferiority beginning to form in her little mental sky, and see her beginning to distort her personality by developing an unconscious bitterness toward white people; when you have to concoct an answer for a five-year-old son whi is asking: "Daddy, why do white people treat colored people so mean?"; when you take a cross-country drive and find it necessary to sleep night after night in the uncomfortable corners of your automobile because no motel will accept you; when you are humiliated day in and day out by nagging signs reading "white" and "colored"; when your first name becomes "******," your middle name becomes "boy" (however old you are) and your last name becomes "John," and your wife and mother are never given the respected title "Mrs."; when you are harried by day and haunted by night by the fact that you are a Negro, living constantly at tiptoe stance, never quite knowing what to expect next, and are plagued with inner fears and outer resentments; when you are forever fighting a degenerating sense of "nobodiness"--then you will understand why we find it difficult to wait.”

[Martin Luther King, "Letter from Birmingham Jail"]

InFront

I think there is a tendency to talk up racism as a particular Irish problem, of course it's not. Irish people have historically been less exposed to non-indigenous Caucasians than many of their European colleagues.
This doesn't mean that Ireland now has more racists, nobody hates black skin because they've never seen it before anymore than they hate couscous on grounds that they've never eaten it, there's got to be some deeper psychological hangup at work there. Racism by that definition, is pretty rare - everywhere - in my experience.

On the other hand I do think that Irish society can sometimes be uncomfortable with issues of colour in a way that is directly related to lack of exposure to multiculturalism. I wouldn't call that racism, but I wouldnt dismiss it as completely irrelevant either, I think it's quite a short term thing but it's hard to gauge since it's so much less obvious than racism and just blends into the social landscape a bit more.

nesf

InFront wrote:

On the other hand I do think that Irish society can sometimes be uncomfortable with issues of colour in a way that is directly related to lack of exposure to multiculturalism. I wouldn't call that racism, but I wouldnt dismiss it as completely irrelevant either, I think it's quite a short term thing but it's hard to gauge since it's so much less obvious than racism and just blends into the social landscape a bit more.

I've seen a tendency with Irish people to be "overly cautious" about things like "How exactly do you comment about someone's race/colour/religion without offending them when you've never had to do it before and have no idea how they'll react" and such.


That, and racism can be defined very broadly. I notice people's skin colour not being white, I notice different styles of dress (Roma, Muslims with their face covered) etc, I don't react any differently to people because of it but I do notice it simply because I'm not used to it. Though in recent years I've stopped noticing it about people as much as I've become more used to it but I find the idea of being "colour blind" about race a bit silly. We're human, you'll almost always note it when someone isn't of your race/creed/whatever. The key is not fearing/distrusting/whatever them because of it.

InFront

Yes I agree with that, I think much of it is simply to do with being overly cautious, and in fact I think there is generally a great aversion to racism in Irish society.

However what I am really talking about is what might be described as "minor prejudices", and a suspicion of the foreigner, a situation like an old lady being afraid of a black Doctor (in light of the unusually large number of old white ladies and non EU medics in Irish hospitals, that's actually quite common).
That is an example of a time when we must draw a line between ignorance (in its most literal term as opposed to intended rudeness) and racism. They do not always go hand in hand
There's something absurd about lumping every minor prejudice in with a black kid getting beaten up on grounds of race, it dilutes the seriousness of racism. I think we need to differentiate between serious racism and inconsequential prejudices which, although irritating, are simply a cultural phenomenon and will disappear over time.
These are a relic of monoculturalism, racism is not.

philologos

In terms of racism in Ireland, it does exist as does anti-Semitism etc. But if you compare Ireland to what's going on in the USA with the neo-Nazi gangs etc, we're very very small fish.

seahorse

InFront wrote:

However what I am really talking about is what might be described as "minor prejudices", and a suspicion of the foreigner, a situation like an old lady being afraid of a black Doctor (in light of the unusually large number of old white ladies and non EU medics in Irish hospitals, that's actually quite common).

It is, and it reminds me of something my grandmother said to me some years ago before she died. She was in a nursing home for her last few years and I'd visit her regularly. On one visit she said to me; "There's a black girl working here now. She woke me up this morning for my tea and I just opened my eyes and saw this big black woman; I got the shock of my life"!

This black woman apparently brought the old folks their breakfasts and tea and sandwiches; whatever food they'd be having outside of main mealtimes, which they had in a large dining room. She also made the beds and did some cleaning of the rooms etc. A couple of weeks later I asked her; "How are you getting on with that black woman you were talking about"? And she said; "Ah grand, she has a lovely manner"! All her initial "shock" apparently forgotten about.

I think for an old lady of eighty-nine who'd been raised in an almost entirely caucasian society, it wouldnt be fair to charge her with racism for expressing a sense of shock at seeing a black woman appear unexpected at her side first thing in the morning; but I've met some people who take political correctness to the highest level who would do just that.

I think an old black lady in an African nursing home would likely react in exactly the same way if I appeared by her side at 8.00 am, lol, and she wouldnt deserve to be charged with racism for it either.

Deliverance

Shush now.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-06-28-irish-mayor_N.htm

Jesus Wept

Adebari for President/Taoiseach

nonbeliever

Karl Hungus wrote:

"Hi, I'm against racism, I think it's totally awful and the worst thing in the word, but this doesn't stop me doing the exact same thing as racists would and tar an entire country, as 'racist xenophobic bigots'!"

Played.

There was a report out, by the UN or EU, a few months ago (i think feb/mar) and it even said how we are a racist nation but only in the past 15years. Ireland has been racist for a lot longer than that though. We refused to allow Jews into Ireland during WWII, we refused to allow Mexicians into Ireland in the 50's/60's and we only let our first asylum seekers into Ireland around that time too. They were from Chile,were Catholic, and they didnt stay very long because they were treated like crap. Now back to today. How are asylum seekers treated? LIKE CRAP!!
So are we a racist nation???

im_invisible

was going to make a new thread, but seeing the bit about racist jokes..

would people say that these jokes are racist, im not sure i would,

bloody italians, i hate them, slanty eyes...
...no, not italians, italics

black guy walking to catch a bus, sees a guy wearing a skullcap standing at the bus stop, goes up and asks him "when's the next bus due?"
and yer man goes "fcuk off nigga"

theyre not 'evil xenophobic racist' jokes, anyway, just kinda funny

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

I don't agree with being overly sensitive and politically correct, I think we can all have a laugh without any nastiness intended.

Bottle_of_Smoke

im_invisible wrote:

black guy walking to catch a bus, sees a guy wearing a skullcap standing at the bus stop, goes up and asks him "when's the next bus due?"
and yer man goes "fcuk off nigga"

theyre not 'evil xenophobic racist' jokes, anyway, just kinda funny

Heh, didn't get that for a second, good though.

The Corinthian

funloving wrote:

I know it's something very hard to admit but...do you think Irish people are racist?

Xenophobic rather than racist, although it can express itself in terms of racism.

Much of this comes down to the fact that Ireland was a very homogeneous society up until quite recently. I came to Ireland, from Italy, as a child in the late seventies. At that stage, being Italian was pretty much as exotic as you got - the only person in Ireland at the time with darker skin than me was Phil Lynnot - so, I did encounter a certain amount of xenophobia, of which some was I supposed racist.

This is because everyone else was pale, freckled and very, very Irish. And I mean everybody - I think I was well into my teens before I even saw a black person. So when in the space of a few years, Dublin went from being Gingeropolis to 13% non-nationals, the Irish understandably have had difficulty adjusting.

For me, this meant I was no longer as exotic. Actually, I was just another continental at best, which is a pity because pulling women was like shooting fish in a barrel in the early nineties. On the upside, the food improved considerably. You have no idea what schifezze people ate here before the Celtic Tiger.

JacobM

"Xenophobic rather than racist,"

Xenophobia: The New Racism

I concider myself a very accepting person. I am a little less familiar with people of color etc. I do not see the need to violate my comfort zone. That is an entirely different belief system than racism however.

In a cosmopolitan country, the US, there is a good deal of acceptance of people of all types. They differ so much, race is a backround issue. But it does exist. People associate race with a culture; they recognize similarities between others and come to anticipate these traits.

I deal with a Black person considerably different than an Asian. Is that racist? I don't think so. It is street smarts.

There is an association between like peoples. If I were to associate only with black peoples, I would be the odd man out. I would be treating everyone else differently than I am treated by them.

Do men treat blond haired women the same as brunettes? No. It is a recognized fact that blond haired women receive more attention on average. Is this racist? Blond haired women tend to be fair skinned. With the racial bias, is this racist?

In the US there are a number of Irish immigrants who have an Asian characteristic. It is not a common trait in Ireland from what I can see. It could come from Jews, it could come from anywhere. While we could consider these people white, they could come from just about anywhere. There is not a generational continuum between them and other populations.

Jews are a race of people and a religion too. The religion and the race each present different issues. They tend to follow other populations around. Enter into homogeneous populations and act as a separate entity. When the religion is dissolved there is left two populations of people. Communism and other odd behavior is left as a residue that corodes over time the national, cultural and social fabric. It is a bad culture to be multi-cultural with. Judeism is anti-culturalist.

This is not uncommon. People will up root themselves and relocate in other places if they feel as though their own could mix with the new population or culture. They see this as upgrading. And yet we are expected to deny their inferiority that the behavior implies.

It is more often European cultures are left to deal with Jews that have been spawled off the tribe. Europeans culture are more appealing. The fair features express emotions more easily. They tend to be mild in nature. They tend to have conservative cultures. They tend to be very wealthy. They lack outright corruption. They are intelligent. They have religion, economic and social customs that produce adequate work with reasonable pay. The laws are reasonable -- in accordance with the populations needs.

It is not seen in Africa or India or China or Japan or in the middle east or South America, Europeans assimilating into local populations with the intention of residency. It has occurred before but it is particularly rare. The other countries may welcome outsiders they may not. These others countries do not typically assimilate into one another. When they do, they tend to be similar and compatible, ie: Koreans in China or Zambians in South Africa, Indians in Afghanistan.

American society is very open to different people. That openness is abused on all levels. Americans adapt to Americans. Many of us simply just don't like people. That is the result of open society. It didn't used to be that you had to look twice at everyone you met.

So, without getting stupid, what do you do?

The Corinthian

JacobM wrote:

"Xenophobic rather than racist,"

Xenophobia: The New Racism

Xenophobia is simply a fear or mistrust of the different. An Englishman can be xenophobic about an Irishman or a Scot or vice versa, but this is not the same as racism, because genetically, speaking there’s bugger all difference between them. So while xenophobia can be racist in origin, it’s not always.

I concider myself a very accepting person. I am a little less familiar with people of color etc. I do not see the need to violate my comfort zone. That is an entirely different belief system than racism however.

Not necessarily. It depends on how those people intrude upon your comfort zone. If ultimately the principle reason is racial, rather than cultural or otherwise, then it is racist by definition regardless of what cultural correlation you want to apply.

I deal with a Black person considerably different than an Asian. Is that racist? I don't think so. It is street smarts.

Well actually it is racist. If you deal with a black American person you may make an educated assumption that they come from a particular culture, but that does not mean they will. You can’t deal with a British black person or an African the same way, and indeed on individual cases many black American people will not conform to those stereotypes.

Do men treat blond haired women the same as brunettes? No. It is a recognized fact that blond haired women receive more attention on average. Is this racist? Blond haired women tend to be fair skinned. With the racial bias, is this racist?

False logic. Just because men may prefer blonds does not mean they prefer fair skinned women. In fact they will tend to prefer women with healthy tans rather than those who are pale.

In the US there are a number of Irish immigrants who have an Asian characteristic. It is not a common trait in Ireland from what I can see. It could come from Jews, it could come from anywhere. While we could consider these people white, they could come from just about anywhere. There is not a generational continuum between them and other populations.

What is this “Asian characteristic”? And given Ireland’s historically low Jewish population, what makes you think that it came from them?

Jews are a race of people and a religion too. The religion and the race each present different issues. They tend to follow other populations around. Enter into homogeneous populations and act as a separate entity. When the religion is dissolved there is left two populations of people. Communism and other odd behavior is left as a residue that corodes over time the national, cultural and social fabric. It is a bad culture to be multi-cultural with. Judeism is anti-culturalist.

You’re jumping to a number of conclusions, so you’ll really need to explain and justify your argument.

This is not uncommon. People will up root themselves and relocate in other places if they feel as though their own could mix with the new population or culture. They see this as upgrading. And yet we are expected to deny their inferiority that the behavior implies.

Why are you assuming inferiority? Are you suggesting that a migrant is inferior by definition? Does that make all Americans inferior?

It is not seen in Africa or India or China or Japan or in the middle east or South America, Europeans assimilating into local populations with the intention of residency. It has occurred before but it is particularly rare.

Typically Europeans have tended to exterminate or subjugate local populations when migrating rather than assimilating. I’m not certain that this is something to hold up as a good thing.

purple'n'gold

nonbeliever wrote:

Us Irish have a long history of racism. Its actually quite sick but i think we are getting better. I dont think we are as racist as we once were

I agree.
Just ask any black who lived in Harlem in the 1940’s 1950’s how he was treated by the predominately Irish police force.

InFront

JacobM wrote:

In the US there are a number of Irish immigrants who have an Asian characteristic. It is not a common trait in Ireland from what I can see. It could come from Jews, it could come from anywhere.

I'm curious, but almost afraid to even ask.. what do you mean?

Jews are a race of people and a religion too. The religion and the race each present different issues. They tend to follow other populations around

I guess it just depends on how you define race. Judaism isn't really limited by geography, and although in some sects they need to have some sort of parental link, that doesn't have to imply physical racial identity at all.

Judeism is anti-culturalist.

I presume you mean opposed to integration or dilution of the group identity, in which case I'd suggest it's not really any more opposed to dilution than communism was, just better at avoiding it. You also have to take into account that some belief systems fail because they're just poor belief systems to begin with(ie communism)

Ekancone

Everyone is racist to some degree or another, whether it be positive racism or negative racism.

JacobM

Looking at the suburban sprawl in Pennsylvania it is clear that diversity is bad. You could even go as far as to say living near black people is bad. But we can not excuse the Jews who are so rammed up with competition that they have pressed the Churches and other traditional city entities into the ground while they sell their office spaces.

Positive racism, meaning liking your own race and the identity of others is part and parcel with being exclusive, prejudice and dominating. Some people simply don't recognize this fact. Again look at Pennsylvania. I can say nice things about the state but it is anemic culturally. The work ethic is VERY self centered and egotistical one. And it happens to be one of the whitest there is.

As fantastic as the skin deep myth is, it just this: a myth. You would have such fuzzy focus at that point that humanity as a whole would have no real identity, no cultures, no art, nothing to achieve.

Just animals. Very ugly animals at that. We whine complain and act like children. We are sick and on drugs, we are needy, we do not have a robust physical uniformity that the animal kingdom has. Our lifestyle is very confused and non-deliberate. We injure each other and ourselves in ways that just are not seen in the animal kingdom. We are weaselly. We have destroyed or consumed more good land than any other animal. We are not a part of the natural ecosystem. We do not respect the one we have manufactured.

In that light you can pretty much ignore racism altogether. It is clear however that some races are characteristically different.

Diversity is just as fantastic. It has not produce anything what-so-ever. I think it is kind of interesting, other cultures. But that is about the extent of it. This is best enjoyed at the boundaries of an ethnic group instead of mixing everything together in a slurry.

Especially when conceived in a PC environment. This causes people to drop their own customs and heritage and religion and ethnic pride.

They then concede to rudest thing in the room. :eek:

Looking at Austria for instance. Austria has a strong concentration of -- Austrians. They are positive because they are not hindered by some secondary culture. You must own your country. You must own it like an animal.

The Corinthian

I notice that you're very happy to come out with rhetoric, but you're not terribly forthcoming when people point out that it makes little logical sense.

If a man cannot defend his convictions in debate, they're probably not worth much.

Spyral

im not racist, I just dont like nazis. That siad I had a freind who was called a "nazi-jew" which is kind of an oxymoron. Anyway the brits have a political party dedicated to racism so i think they win on being the most racist.

togster

I detest americans (most) and skangers(all). Am i a racist? What makes you are racist. Is it unfounded believes? Because if so then im not a racist. I believe what america are doing in certain parts of the world is wrong. And by america i mean americans as they voted GWB in. So IMO they are accountable. Skangers are just skangers.

I feel im a racist though. But it doesn't bother me.

The Corinthian

You're not a racist. What defines racism is a belief that overriding human characteristics are racially (genetically) based. As Americans and skangers have traits that are environmentally based (and are often multi-racial) you can't be a racist.

Please bare in mind that just because a view is racist, that does not make it unfounded. Asians have a lower tolerance for alcohol on average than Europeans is a racist assessment, for example, however it is also medically demonstrable. The danger though is generalizing on such medical facts and extrapolating that all Asians have lower tolerance for alcohol than all Europeans - which is not true. That's why I've always found the claim that blacks have a lower IQ than whites so amusing - even if this were the case on average, that average would still probably be brighter than your average redneck member of the KKK.

Where the lines become blurred is where race and environment overlap. Then it becomes all too easy to attribute what are environmentally based characteristics to race and then to generalize. This, I believe, is the basis and basic flaw in the vast bulk of racialist theory.

little nell

hi daredevil, I felt i had to tell this story.My husband was at an all night petrol station when 3 drunken idiots came along,2 went into the shop and the third started mouthing about the black guy who was serving saying no wonder we cant get jobs with them coming in and taking our jobs.My husband asked him what he worked at he said he had no job because of them my husband told he should applied for that job when it was advertised in the newspaper,f---k off he said i would not do a scabby job like that.so its a case of the dog in the manger;he dosent want it himself but he doesent want any one else to have it either.

meglome

I remember having an argument with an Indian friend of mine after the last London bombings. His point was that when I heard about the bombings that I had pictured someone dark skinned being involved and therefore I was racist. To be honest I think he was sore that Asians were now being randomly stopped and searched. Which I pointed out used to happen to the Irish. When I was younger I got stopped every single time in went into the UK, I must have fit some profile somewhere. The bottom line was he was completely wrong. After the bombings I imagined it was most likely an attack by an extremist Muslim group but I didn't picture those Muslims being any colour or from any background.

I find recently if you say anything, for instance, about Muslims then you are being racist but that just doesn't add up. There are elements of certain cultures and religions I have a big problem with but it has absolutely nothing to do with race. I remember talking to a friend of mine and saying I on the whole I didn't like the Roma culture or a lot of the Nigerian culture. He looked at me like I had two heads. Like I had said something really ignorant. I think I dislike PC'ness almost as much as racism.

I come across very little blatant racism in Ireland I'm glad to say.

meglome

JacobM wrote:

Looking at the suburban sprawl in Pennsylvania it is clear that diversity is bad. You could even go as far as to say living near black people is bad. But we can not excuse the Jews who are so rammed up with competition that they have pressed the Churches and other traditional city entities into the ground while they sell their office spaces.

Total ****e. American society (the people with the money that is) have allowed ghettoes to form or at best happily ignored the situation. Look at the shock of some Americans when they saw how people were living in New Orleans. I appreciate that some of the minorities living in these areas do little to improve their situation and often make it worse but it went a long way to get to that point without people with power doing anything to help. Diversity isn't bad, ghettoisation is bad.

bill_ashmount

meglome wrote:

Total ****e. American society (the people with the money that is) have allowed ghettoes to form or at best happily ignored the situation. Look at the shock of some Americans when they saw how people were living in New Orleans. I appreciate that some of the minorities living in these areas do little to improve their situation and often make it worse but it went a long way to get to that point without people with power doing anything to help. Diversity isn't bad, ghettoisation is bad.

Genuine question. Can someone give me an example of a country they think is working well along the lines of diversity/multi-culturalism? I am only looking for an example to study, I don't want peoples opinions either way.

Cheers.

The Corinthian

bill_ashmount wrote:

Can someone give me an example of a country they think is working well along the lines of diversity/multi-culturalism?

Singapore.

On a lesser extent there are numerous countries that are multi-ethnic and happily co-exist, including Switzerland, Finland or Britain.