An end to gas being anyway expensive :)

ED E

Ok, you know how we pay €10.50 for a 400g tank of propane? Well an 11KG tank is only €26! Now I dont think crazy will be sticking an 11KG tank on the back of his precious but in the boot of a car....Would anyone here be willing to pay €5 for a full refill instead of €11? IF we can get this to work you can. We have got the parts but we are just lloking at safety.

There is a standard that all tanks are only EVER filled to 80% of their designated capacity(which is really much lower that there true one). We are just trying to find out 1, is that 80% of it liquid?(filli it with 100% liquid and a temp rise of a few degrees and you have one largemundo explosiano), and 2 how can we ensure that it is only 80% full?

Anybody got any info?
Cheers
LB

Harekin

Lethal_Bullet wrote:

Ok, you know how we pay €10.50 for a 400g tank of propane? Well an 11KG tank is only €26! Now I dont think crazy will be sticking an 11KG tank on the back of his precious but in the boot of a car....Would anyone here be willing to pay €5 for a full refill instead of €11? IF we can get this to work you can. We have got the parts but we are just lloking at safety.

There is a standard that all tanks are only EVER filled to 80% of their designated capacity(which is really much lower that there true one). We are just trying to find out 1, is that 80% of it liquid?(filli it with 100% liquid and a temp rise of a few degrees and you have one largemundo explosiano), and 2 how can we ensure that it is only 80% full?

Anybody got any info?
Cheers
LB

€11 for a full refill? Are you insane?

It would be a liquid in the can as its under pressure(quite a few atmospheres). It only expands into a gas when it leaves the can.

ED E

"Would anyone here be willing to pay €5 for a full refill instead of €11" you Muppet!:p

Harekin

No no man, I ment who charges €11 for a full refill? You mean a Propane cylinder refill?Ahhh....that my man would be extremely dangerous to do yourself, leave it to the people at Flogas to do it for you.

Fiach Dubh

Certainly would be handy alright. I have 4 propane tanks myself.

ED E

"No no man, I ment who charges €11 for a full refill? You mean a Propane cylinder refill?Ahhh....that my man would be extremely dangerous to do yourself, leave it to the people at Flogas to do it for you"

They arent comercially refilled, they are camping one and are "disposible", with millions getting thrown into landfill each year.

The danger is low as but the seals do sometimes go(indoors thic could be very dangerous). The seals leak due to the gas cooling. If you leave them for a minute you should be grand. For safety we would probably only fill a tank a few tanks(mark the tank after each fill). As I said we will be way below its maximum tolerence and we'll be testing to ensure they get as much as a new one. WE jsut have to get an 80% regulator...

bushy...

Would any other gases work well ( & not eat your gun ) ? BoC and similar do all sorts and don't charge for the tall cylinders ( less chance of them going missing)

ED E

Think Oisin said MAPP and other gasses dont work, though i'm not sure. CO2 works but i think it needs adaption(Its way more pwerfull!:D )

o1s1n

Lethal_Bullet wrote:

Think Oisin said MAPP and other gasses dont work, though i'm not sure. CO2 works but i think it needs adaption(Its way more pwerfull!:D )

Yep, the only gases that work are propane and co2. Co2 is more expensive so there's no point going there really.

ED E

Push you up to like 400 fps and we cant have that.

Fiach Dubh

Not to mention C02 would blow the weaker GBB's to shreds

Just caught your thread on Arnie's Lethal, wish people would actually read the posts over there, first two answers about how to use propane in a GBB, LOL.

bushy...

Have a look around http://www.bocgases.ie/ or your local friendly pub for CO2 ( I think theres a bit of nitrogen in the pub stuff too though).
The regulator joined to the pub ones drops it to probably something like 50psi but you can adjust it , if you look closely there is a tiny lockscrew to stop you turning the main adjuster

kdouglas

rather than refilling a 400g propane tank, why not fill mags directly from the 11kg one? not sure what type of connector it has on it, but if you could put an adapter onto one you'd be grand and it'd probably be safer than refilling smaller propane tanks.

o1s1n

kdouglas wrote:

rather than refilling a 400g propane tank, why not fill mags directly from the 11kg one? not sure what type of connector it has on it, but if you could put an adapter onto one you'd be grand and it'd probably be safer than refilling smaller propane tanks.

Well, as Lethal pointed out, no one wants to be lugging a 11kg tank around to skirmishes.

Paul mentioned setting one up at HRTA a while back. Should get on at him to make that happen!

Fiach Dubh

Was thinking that myself. Even if he had to charge say 6 Euro a refill for a little bit of profit it would still be well worth it for me. I've got a Maruzen Vz.61 Skorpian on the way I bought from a comrade on Red Alliance. Eats the gas like no tomorrow

ED E

Turning an 11KG upside down? dont thik so. Might be able to adapt it but the whole point would be we could keep using the 400g but pay much less for gas. With irelands weather once we fill to 80% there is little danger(Fill one in alaska then bring it to florida=150% cahrge(which probably actually wouldnt explode cause manufactureres leave huge tolerences but we wouldnt risk it))

Fiach Dubh

I feel much safer with the plumber propane tanks anyway, strong skin. Most commercial Airsoft gas tanks are stupidly thin skinned. A lot of them are being banned in the U.S. now because of it.

ED E

Fiach Dubh wrote:

Was thinking that myself. Even if he had to charge say 6 Euro a refill for a little bit of profit it would still be well worth it for me. I've got a Maruzen Vz.61 Skorpian on the way I bought from a comrade on Red Alliance. Eats the gas like no tomorrow

Cant say i like the look of it....
If we got it working we would probably sell it for a fiver a charge...

ED E

OMG those burnz tanks are strong. I completly emtied one then carefully ripped it apart today. To ensure there was no chance of explosion i drilled a hole in the side, that took a while...very robust. We need to know if the second valve is an 80% blowout valve...

Fiach Dubh

Damn, might want to read this, taken from Bernzomatic website

http://www.bernzomatic.com/bernzomatic/consumer/jhtml/safetyWarnings.jhtml

PROPANE FUEL

DANGER: EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE. CONTENT UNDER PRESSURE.
Keep away from heat or flame. It is illegal and dangerous to refill the cylinder. Obtain a new cylinder from your dealer. Keep out of reach of children. Avoid prolonged exposure to sunlight. Do not store near heat or in a room used for habitation. Always close burner valve and wait at least 30 seconds before removing burner from cylinder. Always detach cylinder from burner when not in use. Do not breathe gas, fumes, vapor or spray. If inhaled, remove affected person to fresh air. Avoid contact with skin and eyes. For skin contact, flush with large amounts of water. In case of contact with eyes, rinse immediately with plenty of water and seek medical advice. When cylinder is empty, discard in a safe place. Do not throw in fire. Do not puncture or incinerate container. Federal law forbids transportation if refilled. Penalty up to $500,000 fine and five years imprisonment (49 U.S.C 5124).

o1s1n

Fiach Dubh wrote:

Damn, might want to read this, taken from Bernzomatic website

http://www.bernzomatic.com/bernzomatic/consumer/jhtml/safetyWarnings.jhtml

PROPANE FUEL

DANGER: EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE. CONTENT UNDER PRESSURE.
Keep away from heat or flame. It is illegal and dangerous to refill the cylinder. Obtain a new cylinder from your dealer. Keep out of reach of children. Avoid prolonged exposure to sunlight. Do not store near heat or in a room used for habitation. Always close burner valve and wait at least 30 seconds before removing burner from cylinder. Always detach cylinder from burner when not in use. Do not breathe gas, fumes, vapor or spray. If inhaled, remove affected person to fresh air. Avoid contact with skin and eyes. For skin contact, flush with large amounts of water. In case of contact with eyes, rinse immediately with plenty of water and seek medical advice. When cylinder is empty, discard in a safe place. Do not throw in fire. Do not puncture or incinerate container. Federal law forbids transportation if refilled. Penalty up to $500,000 fine and five years imprisonment (49 U.S.C 5124).

Any idea if similar laws apply here?

ED E

Yes, but why do 5 american shops sell parts for doing just that. If properly done there is no danger. They say that because they would loose loads of profit from people refilling. In some place 400g tanks are dearer than 11kg ones!!!

Fiach Dubh

Lethal_Bullet wrote:

Yes, but why do 5 american shops sell parts for doing just that. If properly done there is no danger. They say that because they would loose loads of profit from people refilling. In some place 400g tanks are dearer than 11kg ones!!!

I'm not trying to dump on your idea man, just putting that out there. If you can get it to work I'll be the first to cheer

Fiach Dubh

couldn't say but they do say it's dangerous to refill the tanks. Of course they could be just trying to protect their resales but who knows.

ED E

o1s1n wrote:

Any idea if similar laws apply here?

Cant find anything, we comply with British Standard 5482 but thats nothing about refilling.

Fallschirmjager

this is beginning to sound like a 'hold ma beer en watch this' moment...

Fiach Dubh

Fallschirmjager wrote:

this is beginning to sound like a 'hold ma beer en watch this' moment...

ROFL

Tails142

evolution in progress;

We'll either end up with cheaper refills or smarter skirmishers

Rovi

bushy... wrote:

BoC and similar do all sorts and don't charge for the tall cylinders

My BOC Rental Account would beg to differ on that one.

nonex

it's againt the law to refill a non-refill cylinder under British Standard and irish.
it it is a refill cylinder , it has to be tested under British Standard 5045, and you need a dealers cert, if you take money for gas fills.
best way would be to buy a 35 liter cylinder at €34, that less than €1 a liter,
turn cylinder upside down fit a reg, hose, adaptor, job done and within the law.

ED E

Are you saying to fill mags straight from the tank Nonex? We could do that yes but lugging one of those around...not so easy.

What specifies if a tank is non refillable, if the manufacturer puts it on the lable? Because in actual fact they are easily refillable. Got any linkies to all the legal stuff?