Bored of drivin small cars...

Curran

Morning folks,

So heres the deal....im getting tired of driving small/average sized cars - you know the usual family cars - ive owned a Focus and Almera
Im 24, and want something bigger - was thinking of going older, cheaper and spending more on the insurance and tax and loosing not so much on the depreciation. Good iead ???? I dunno, but willing to do it for a bit more ooomph!!

So was thinking of something like a 523i (something like this http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=702102 ....am I right in saying thats the E39 model?)

Basically, i was wondering how that model 5 Series drives - are they tight and sharp, or do they suffer from corner roll and basically clumsy??
Also, anything to watch out for when buying one, ya know common problems or when certain work should be done etc, etc
Anyone know what kinda MPG you'd get out of it??

Henry Ford III

I think that might be step too far maybe for a 24 y/o perhaps?

Your fuel, tax, insurance, and serviving costs would all increase very significantly.

5 series cars are fine btw. That one in the ad has most unusual "leather alloys"


p.s. Go for something in the 2 litre class?

tc20

You cant beat a bit of space and power Curran, but the downside is generally you'll be looking at motors that are, like the BM you posted, hitting 100k+ on the clock. This will mean more maintenace/repairs are generally on the horizon, but a well maintained car (FSH,cars with only 1 or 2 keepers) should
fit the bill.
Others to consider would be Merc E class, Alfa 166, Saab 9-5, et al.
This class of car should throw up a few gems (and a lot of dogs )
Go for it!

michaelanthony

yeah I'm sick of driving small cars too. I'm 27 and on my third 3 series and I'm going to look at a 730i V8 tonight.

daedalus2097

Henry Ford III wrote:

I think that might be step too far maybe for a 24 y/o perhaps?

p.s. Go for something in the 2 litre class?

Agreed - check with your insurer before you bother going looking at cars... I couldn't get insured on a GTI until I turned 25, and that's a 2 litre.

Pigeon Reaper

just get a big motorbike.....

Curran

Checked with the insurance co. already - and extra 300 quid on top of what i pay already per year on a 1.5 Almera and thats with 2 penalty points...not bad.
The one i was actually looking at is a 96 with 88k on the clock, and was owned by a mechanic, so it should be a gem, even if its going to cost a few more quid

As for the GTi, insurance co.s dont want to know you - i think i heard someone say only 2 companies in Ireland will insure them - high risk cars also!!

Curran

Pigeon Reaper wrote:

just get a big motorbike.....

Dont tempt me - if only!!!

The missus would kill me if i brought home a bike, if not, it wouldnt take long before id probably do it to myself on the bike - maybe in a few years, when i'd be a bit more mature and wouldnt act the b*ll*x on it

An auld Ducatii would be SWEET

MercMad

The E39 5 Series is one of, if not the best cars to drive in that class. They are a superbly engineered car and even the latest model doesn't improve on the way the E39 handles, the new one looks odd too !!

Just take your time, drive a few, and get a nice specced vehicle !

You can buy all service items spurious, good quality stuff too, and pretty much any decent mechanic can service them !

They do have their share of problems though, airbag lights come on frequently, normally caused by a sensor under the passenger seat. The A/C fails too, this is a resistor fault, there is a modified one and its costs about €100 and is a diy job, in 10 minutes ! The rear aluminium suspension arms wear out and can lead to NCT failure, new ones are available spurious for roughly €70/side. Finally on pre '99 manual transmission cars there is a known gearbox weakness, the 'box jams in second gear and/or grinds. Easiest solution is to get one second hand from a later car.

Try to get a car with NCT & service history !

sesswhat

Curran wrote:

The one i was actually looking at is a 96 with 88k on the clock, and was owned by a mechanic, so it should be a gem, even if its going to cost a few more quid

In the case of all the mechanics I know, and worked with, the last car to get any attention was their own:D

Curran

Yeah true true - just like any trades person - go into their house and the partner is giving ot sh*t that they started a job and never finished or have been treathening to do a certain job :rolleyes:

Hopefully, he is one of the minority and looks after his car - looks well taken car of anyways - rarely ever a spec of dirt on it!
But I suppose he could have a young fella working for him, that he makes cleans it for him

sesswhat

Getting back to the big cars, I would be inclined to have a look at what's available in the UK. I bought a lot of cars in auctions in England and NI over the years including a spotless 10 year old high mileage Audi 100 Sport for £500 with very high spec. Sold it privately 2 years later for £600.

Curran

Well lads,

I didnt hang about - did some research this morning on the net.
Went and looked at it and just back - deal done pending some minor work.

So....
96 523i, with the following mods, 18" alloys, angel eye headlights, 02 M-Tech bumpers front and back, chipped to 226 BHP and one or two other small details.

Have a look.... http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=707084

Henry Ford III

Best of luck with it.

226bhp is a lot more than the 170bhp as standard. A 33% increase in a n/a petrol engine.

Your insurer may have an issue with this. You would be very unwise not to mention the mods.

Curran

SSSssshhhh - the guy selling it never said it was chipped

Shouldnt have said anything - will have to pay you off to delete your post and then edit my post -

Wont be saying a word to the kinda ppl insuring me!

bjmotors

funny how i found this thread, im lokin for a 523i aswell! there a great car. i would be cautious of the chip in it tho. many of them cause ECU problems unless fitted by a pro. and to get it from 170 to 225 would need more than a chippin.
more than likely that figure of 225 is bulls*it. no chip on the planet can give 55hp

Curran

The guy that owns it is a mechanic - said it was chipped, and i said to what and he said to 226 from standard 185, so differing opinions on the standard BHP - not bothered either way - im happy that its over 150

tc20

Henry Ford III wrote:

Best of luck with it

Your insurer may have an issue with this. You would be very unwise not to mention the mods.

ditto. The standard 170 is plenty of power for this car. Would you consider getting the car 'unchipped'?

Best of luck with it, nice motor

bjmotors

Curran wrote:

The guy that owns it is a mechanic - said it was chipped, and i said to what and he said to 226 from standard 185, so differing opinions on the standard BHP - not bothered either way - im happy that its over 150

yeah true. i read that the 523i come with 170 bhp standard so i'd sat there is plenty of pull in them.

MercMad

Nice car !

I know that garage and that guy knows his stuff, however a 55BHP increase is just not possible via a chip change !

Good luck with it anyway, looks really nice, decent price too !

Psychobiker

I second hte 5 Series motion. I used to have an E34 520i...nice car.
I currently drive a Volvo 850 T5, more than ample quick, 225bhp stock, handles extremely well and can be found for a song in the UK

bazz26

Curran wrote:

Well lads,

I didnt hang about - did some research this morning on the net.
Went and looked at it and just back - deal done pending some minor work.

So....
96 523i, with the following mods, 18" alloys, angel eye headlights, 02 M-Tech bumpers front and back, chipped to 226 BHP and one or two other small details.

Have a look.... http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=707084

Nice car but does anyone else think that it is a bit on the expensive side for an 11 year old 523i?

Especially compared to these:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=717025
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=680273

Mac 3

Hiya, looks like a fine car, just one thing about an e39 of that age is to check for signs of a problem known as "nickasil". i have a 97 320i which would have a similar engine to the 5 and it started playing up about 2 - 3 years ago. Normally the warning signs are high oil consumption and a rough idle, eventually the engine will give up.The problem is caused by bad petrol eroding the inside of the engine. It affects cars built from 96-Apr 98. (google nickasil if you'd like to know more)

If anyone says that that only happened in the Uk, dont believe them, there have been cases here as well. BMW replaced a lot of the blocks in the Uk, its no harm to check to see if there was any work of this kind carried out.

That said, there are plenty of 5 series on the road that dont have any signs of this problem.

Have a look at the cooling system as well, head gaskets have been known to go..

Otherwise, nice car. best of luck with your search. The 5 will not disappoint.

Rowley Birkin QC

That AC Schnitzer version above is a beauty.

unkel

@OP - 170 BHP was standard. No way can it be chipped to 226BHP. If it has been chipped, don't be a fool. Tell your insurance company

Mac 3 wrote:

If anyone says that that only happened in the Uk, dont believe them, there have been cases here as well

You're right - don't believe anyone but have the car tested instead. Having said that, I don't think petrol sold in the Republic ever lead to a Nikasil issue...

maidhc

Im 24, drive a focus and am currently trying to source a 2L+ Ford Capri that can be taxed and insured as a classic. It just has to be more fun than any modern car and it looks so much better. Even doing 50mph somehow feels fast when you have unpredictable handling and a 4speed box!

Tax is €40, insurance will be something with €300, repairs are cheap and I will still have a Focus diesel for going to work!

wet-paint

Jeez, I'm 23.... no, as of two hours ago, I'm 24, driving a 1.25 mkII fiesta, and will be looking for a 1.6 festy (or an ST if I'm very lucky), I'm loving the hot hatch right now. Maybe in four or five years time when I've kids, I'll look upwards, but right now it's all about the small car with big BHP.

Curran

@ bazz26 - neither of them 2 cars you posted have the look i was looking for - i was thinking of buying a 01 / 02 520, but when i seen this one, i was getting pretty much the same looking car for a fraction of the cost, so thats why i went for that one - even though it maybe a lil overpriced, it was being sold local, i know the car from being around the town and i know ppl who know the mechanic who owned it and said they said he was obsessed with it - cant beat knowing that a car is very well looked after

@ wet-paint - yeah, dont get me wrong hot hatches are great fun to drive and look great, but im sick of having to squeeze people into a 3 dr car, and not having a whole lot of room in the boot after a set of golf clubs are in there, too lazy to take them out after a round, so they stay there all the time!! :rolleyes:

@ unkel - how much of a difference will it make to the insurance quote, do ya reckon, even it its only a few BHP extra and not the 226 that I was told (not that im bothered anyways - 170 is loads)

MercMad

Wasn't the Nikasil issue mainly down to the sulphur content of the UK fuel, which we dont have here ?

JHMEG

As the rest have said, that kind of power increase from a N/A engine is not possible with by chipping alone.

I would not consider a chipped car in the first place: many run the engine very rich, and ignore the sensors. Fuel economy goes south, emissions go north as a result.

Unless the car has had an approved chip installed (dunno about BMW, but Mugen is one of the very very few that are ok in Honda), I'd be looking at getting the original put back in.

Curran

How much would an original chip cost? Doubt he still has the original cos he has had the car for over 6 years!
Will have to have a chat with him again to see what the story is - well i know he served his time as a mech at BMW before he went out on his own - so he should know what hes doing! I hope!!

rebel.ranter

I don't believe it is possible to get from 170BHP to 226BHP on a petrol car with just the addition of a chip.
Take the car to a rolling road to verify the BHP. Most petrol chips will get you 10-15 BHP at most. Chipping Diesel cars is a different story.
A "chip" can cost anything from €350 - €1000. Sometimes they don't actually replace the BMW chip they merely re-programme it.
I would ask the mechanic where he got the car "chipped", you can then talk to these people to see what the realistic gains that were expected & if it can be reversed (if you so wish).

Here is an example of the typical gains expected from a 523i:

http://www.chippedire.com/index.php?view=vehicles&model=214&manufacturer=3


http://www.autoremap.com/index.php?page=cars

Curran

Yeah ive agreed that perhaps its not increased to 226 BHP - i must heard him wrong - maybe he said 206, maybe thats not even possible, but either way, the standard 170 BHP plus whatever increase of the chip is, even if its none, is plenty for the way i'll be driving - ya know, have to wait another 2 years before them 2 points disappear. :mad:

Henry Ford III

Curran wrote:

@ unkel - how much of a difference will it make to the insurance quote, do ya reckon, even it its only a few BHP extra and not the 226 that I was told (not that im bothered anyways - 170 is loads)

It doesn't really matter what it'll cost. You simply must do it if your insurance is to be valid. If (and I sincerely hope you never do btw) have an own fault crash and your insurer refuses liability because of non disclosure, your financial future is kaput. They can take your house, car, savings - everything to recoup what they've paid out on a 3rd party claim.

I'd advise get a printout of the chipped engine's power, and submit it, in writing, to your insurer. Hopefully it's nearer the standard 170 bhp than was claimed.

Good luck.

unkel

Curran wrote:

@ unkel - how much of a difference will it make to the insurance quote, do ya reckon

There's only one way to find out. Ring them

MercMad wrote:

Wasn't the Nikasil issue mainly down to the sulphur content of the UK fuel, which we dont have here ?

Yes. And as such it affects imported cars and perhaps even Irish cars that were driven in the UK regularly

BTW the problem was way bigger in the US than in the UK. BMW over there voluntarily (hehe, fair play to consumer organisations and the pressure they can exercise ) extended the warranty to 6 years / 100,000 miles. They paid for many an engine replacement under this warranty

MercMad

I would not consider a chipped car in the first place: many run the engine very rich, and ignore the sensors. Fuel economy goes south, emissions go north as a result.

............not completely true. An engine ALWAYS has to run a mixture of roughly 14.7:1, get too far away from this and it will get rough. I had my old Alfa Romeo 2.0 T-Spark chipped, Superchips, and the idle improved, the low end torque improved, the flat spot was gone AND it was more economical to boot !

Basically a Chip is a more refined example of the original fuelling Map, where a manufacturer will have a reading for 1000RPM, 1250, 1500 etc, the aftermarket Chip get more involved and the increments become far closer !

Curran

Henry Ford III wrote:

I'd advise get a printout of the chipped engine's power, and submit it, in writing, to your insurer.

Where can ya get it done? And how much does it cost?

Curran

Phew......thanks MercMad....finally a post, that hasnt bashed the chip.

Will have to do some talking to the guy again before i sign for the car!;)

Henry Ford III

Curran wrote:

Where can ya get it done? And how much does it cost?

I'd ask seller for prrof of his engine bhp claims tbh. Perhaps he's just making it up? He presumably didn't guess the 226bhp figure?

DonJose

Did anybody here see the Top Gear programme where they each bought a classic super car for a grand or some, they bought a Ferrari, a Lamborghini and a Maserati. When they did the BHP test all the cars were below the advertised BHP, some were out by 60 BHP, the car you are buying is 10 years old so it might not have the advertised 170BHP, I'd get the BHP checked if its that important.

Curran

Yeah, am going to ask him if he's got any print outs.
And what exactly he's done to the engine to be getting the 226BHP he claims
The car could have 126 BHP and id proabably still take it - the body is perfect

Curran

DonJose wrote:

Did anybody here see the Top Gear programme where they each bought a classic super car for a grand or some, they bought a Ferrari, a Lamborghini and a Maserati. When they did the BHP test all the cars were below the advertised BHP, some were out by 60 BHP, the car you are buying is 10 years old so it might not have the advertised 170BHP, I'd get the BHP checked if its that important.

Yeah i seen it - when Clarkson thought he had bought the highest spec engine - LOL - then read the service history and in it was a receipt for a badge worth £38 - Classic.

About the BHP lads, im not bothered if its not the 226BHP he claims, im not even bothered if 50 of the stanard 170 are gone - the car has just got the presence that i want - could have a 1Lt engine and id still love it!
Weeeelllll.......not quite:rolleyes:

GB15

Has anyone ever compared the e34 525 with the e39 523/525. As far as I remember the e34 came with 192 bhp as standard with the newer 2.5 engine having 170 bhp.

Just wondering would this drop in bhp be very noticeable on the road. Maybe the newer engine has a more refined way of delivering power..??

unkel

GB15 wrote:

Has anyone ever compared the e34 525 with the e39 523/525. As far as I remember the e34 came with 192 bhp as standard with the newer 2.5 engine having 170 bhp

A lot of that has to do with marketing. The E34 525 was replaced by the E39 528. Hence the "rebadging" of the 2.5l E39 as a 523

Daft or what?

Biro

michaelanthony wrote:

yeah I'm sick of driving small cars too. I'm 27 and on my third 3 series and I'm going to look at a 730i V8 tonight.

730i - Open to correction, but I'd be willing to hedge a few bob on that being a 3 litre 7-series, on which case it's an in-line 6. The V8 was the 4.4

unkel

Biro wrote:

I'd be willing to hedge a few bob

How much?

Biro wrote:

730i - Open to correction, but I'd be willing to hedge a few bob on that being a 3 litre 7-series

You're right!

Biro wrote:

on which case it's an in-line 6. The V8 was the 4.4

You're wrong! The E38 730i had the M60 3.0l petrol V8 engine (and the early E38 740i had the 4.0l petrol V8 version of this engine). This engine was replaced in the 7-er in '96 with the M62 V8 petrol engine in 735 (3.5l) and 740 (4.4l)

My current car (E38 735) has the M62. My previous car (E34 530) had the M60. BTW the engine in the previous M5 was based on the M62 with a wee modification or two

mike65

*anorak alert*

*anorak alert.*

Mike.

unkel

I'll take that as a compliment then, Mike, shall I?

How's the A6 BTW?

mike65

Okay, that noisy top end is still with me alas, I had the oil changed to 20-50 spec which has softened the racket at idle. Once the revs get over 1100 its fine but it still sounds a bit like an old-school diesel at the lights.

The best feature of the car is deffo the autobox, I can't belive its so smooth, tbh on a light throttle you really would'nt know when the change happened unless you were listening out for it (or watching the dial!).

Mike.

Mac 3

Apologies for hi-jacking the topic, The engine used in 6 cylinder BMWs of the mid nineties was known as the M52. Although the Nikisil problem was found in the states it was also common in the UK, owing to fuel with a high sulphur content. BMW UK carried out repairs to affected cars as a goodwill gesture to correct what was seen as a manufacturing fault. The engine was updated and used different materials to ensure that the problem wouldn't re-occur.

My car is an original Irish car, bought from an Irish BM dealer in 1997, I've heard of a few cases of Nickasil or Premature Bore Wear in Ireland. So obviously some high sulphur fuel must have been in the country at some stage. Hats off to BMW, they sorted me out a few years ago.

Curran, Best of luck with it if you decide to purchase.

unkel

Mac 3 wrote:

So obviously some high sulphur fuel must have been in the country at some stage

Not in the republic afaik and I doubt it was for sale in Norn Iron. Must have been cars that spent some time over in Engerland

The whole Nikasil saga must have been a corporate nightmare for BMW. Imagine it. You design, develop and test yet another superior engine. It's working great, performance is fantastic, it's reliable and it will last forever. It will get major praise from every motoring journo in the world and it will be a commercial success too. Grand so. And then someone poisons it with chemicals and everything will go arseways from there :eek: