The thought police have banned Manhunt 2

I don't even play games that much but now I really want this game!

Ireland has joined the UK in banning the controversial violent video game Manhunt 2, it was confirmed today.

The Irish Film Censors Office (IFCO) said it contained gross acts of violence, making it the first video game to be banned in the State.

This comes after it was announced yesterday the British Board of Film Classification (BBFC) rejected the same game because of its brutal and explicit content.

“A prohibition order has been made by IFCO in relation to the video game Manhunt 2,” said a statement posted on the Film Censor’s website.

“The Order was made under Sec 7 (1) (b) of the Video Recordings Act 1989 which refers to acts of gross violence or cruelty (including mutilation and torture).

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhkfojgbsnid/

Is there even any point in banning games in this day in age when the internet provides an easy way around it?

Tricity Bendix

What makes this game so much more violent than, say, GTA?

The actual ruling by the BBFC

“Rejecting a work is a very serious action and one which we do not take lightly. Where possible we try to consider cuts or, in the case of games, modifications which remove the material which contravenes the Board’s published Guidelines. In the case of Manhunt 2 this has not been possible.

"Manhunt 2 is distinguishable from recent high-end video games by its unremitting bleakness and callousness of tone in an overall game context which constantly encourages visceral killing with exceptionally little alleviation or distancing. There is sustained and cumulative casual sadism in the way in which these killings are committed, and encouraged, in the game."








“Although the difference should not be exaggerated the fact of the game’s unrelenting focus on stalking and brutal slaying and the sheer lack of alternative pleasures on offer to the gamer, together with the different overall narrative context, contribute towards differentiating this submission from the original Manhunt game.

"[Manhunt] was classified ‘18’ in 2003, before the BBFC’s recent games research had been undertaken, but was already at the very top end of what the Board judged to be acceptable at that category.”

“Against this background, the Board’s carefully considered view is that to issue a certificate to Manhunt 2, on either platform, would involve a range of unjustifiable harm risks, to both adults and minors, within the terms of the Video Recordings Act, and accordingly that its availability, even if statutorily confined to adults, would be unacceptable to the public.”

http://www.gamesradar.com/gb/wii/game/news/article.jsp?releaseId=2007061911474843030&articleId=2007061911474843030&sectionId=1006

Duggy747

b.ie polar wrote:

What makes this game so much more violent than, say, GTA?

They believe that Manhunt has just got too much gratuitous violence where there is no reason at all for it. GTA is too much of a big game to be taken down as it is one of the biggest franchise of the past decade. Anywho, I got bored with the 1st Manhunt, too repetitive. It's stupid, I don't need fùcking protection from anything (well, unless it was something physical). Before I go into a rant about the gaming industry again I just think it's always down to the parent and the shop owner if protecting kids, period!

DonJose

You can buy it on Play.com. It'll be a bestseller because of the ban.

r3nu4l

Play.com won't be shipping it anywhere within the UK as the BBFC rating now forbids that. Anyone living in Ireland should still be able to buy it unless the IFC bans it as well.

You'll note that the Play.com website is not up to date

Rating

RATING TBC

Dyr

Irish film censor in "we generally just do whatever the brits do tbh" shock

I heard him dis morning on de ould rahdeeoo, "im no expert on video games". :rolleyes:

cornbb

"Thought Police" is a bit rich, the IFCO have never banned a game before. Seems to me the game seems to consist of pure unrelentless violence, purely for the sake of unrelentless violence. The IFCO must not have taken this decision lightly as they are generally more on the liberal side of things - I seem to remember them giving an 18 cert to some film that had been banned in the UK and elsewhere.

True though, this decision will make many people want to get their hands on this game, including me. Bet it won't be any good thought.

Duggy747

It's sorta stupid really, we're in the digital age where now buy stuff on the net often. Suppose this means we can actually buy the game at a bargain, cheers IFCO!

Slow Motion

Just to point out before anyone starts coming out with the old "Britain sneezes and Ireland blows its nose" saw, it was actually banned here first according to the censor, anyhoo I do think it's a bit daft and that it is up to the parents to monitor what their kids are playing as for adults well they can decide for themselves what they play or not. And yes now that it's been banned I would like a copy to see what all the fuss is about, if it hadn't I probably wouldn't have given it a second look.

_blank_

IFCO banned it BEFORE the brits.

Jesus Wept

I love that they said the reason it was banned was because it contained 'causual sadism'




makes me wonder if it had been more formal sadism, less nonchalant sadism, it would of been grand?

Crucifix

I've no interest in the game, but I don't see why an adult shouldn't be allowed to buy this if they want to.

flogen

Thought police? Ha.
Funny thing about that is that the current censor has been the most leniant - he gave 9 Songs an 18's cert and allowed it out on general release (as it should be IMO).

I can see his point though (as I said on the Nintendo forum) - Manhunt is violent for the sake of violence and controversy... it does mean sales will skyrocket though.

thefinalstage

Damn! I have been waiting for this game since last December...Screw you boards of censorship! Oh well a Dutch import will have to do. A reason to learn the language...

The-Rigger

The-Rigger wrote:

I love that they said the reason it was banned was because it contained 'causual sadism'




makes me wonder if it had been more formal sadism, less nonchalant sadism, it would of been grand?

Its the difference between I'll rip this guys eye balls out for fun rather than I'll do it to......

Save the world!

Duggy747

Slow Motion wrote:

And yes now that it's been banned I would like a copy to see what all the fuss is about, if it hadn't I probably wouldn't have given it a second look.

Exactly, I haven't been interested in something like this since all the hub-bub about South Park when it first came out and now it's one of my favourite shows since I watched the 1st episode all those years ago. I'll take IFCO's word for it as they are pretty liberial when it comes to violence, I've seen and played a lot of recent violent movies & games. I bet Manhunt 2 is shìt though, didn't like the 1st one.

griffdaddy

thelastangryman wrote:

Oh well a Dutch import will have to do. A reason to learn the language...

'Okej feller, get yerself over here sho i can shlice yer up real nashty'

Dyr

seansouth wrote:

IFCO banned it BEFORE the brits.

SET tin_foil_hat= 1

They were given the wink from the brits though

flogen

Duggy747 wrote:

I bet Manhunt 2 is shìt though, didn't like the 1st one.

Maybe it's shít and the censor is just trying to save us money!

I'd have no problem with this getting an 18 cert - no matter how violent it it it's still simulated violence and someone over 18 can tell the difference - if they can't that's not the game's fault.

But this isn't something I'd get too bothered about, either, because it's hard to justify a game like Manhunt when it has zero redeeming qualities. GTA was a great game and the violence was largely justifiable (it was a gangster game, after all). While I don't support Manhunt's banning, I couldn't support it's release either, because I think it's cynical and opportunist on the part of Rockstar, and they're just giving idiots ammunition in order to turn a quick buck or two.

Slow Motion

griffdaddy wrote:

'Okej feller, get yerself over here sho i can shlice yer up real nashty'

Excellent

Peter Collins

The ban might teach those game designers to come up with something more original, instead of going for the lowest common denominator all the time.

griffdaddy

Peter Collins wrote:

The ban might teach those game designers to come up with something more original, instead of going for the lowest common denominator all the time.

The place is hardly coming down with games that force the main character to make a snuff movie is it? and it's hardly the lowest common denominator!

Wait? When was it banned?

I'm pretty sure I saw it in a games shop in Galway.. well, it was "reserve your copy now". Also, it was available on the Wii. Killing people just became more hands-on. Would've been interesting to see how they worked it out.

SNL

I think the hands on element of the game is whats really causing the problems, increases the levels of interactivity really

RandolphEsq

cornbb wrote:

True though, this decision will make many people want to get their hands on this game, including me. Bet it won't be any good though.

Lol I feel the same. I hardly play video games but now I really want to play this one and see how it'll ''harm me''

Dragan

I enjoyed the original Manhunt. At times there was a savage sense of tension involved that really got the old heart going.

Was it pretty brutal on the murder side? Yes it was, but frankly who gives a toss. In my opinion we should be beyond "banning" anything and a simple rating system should be enforced the right way. If some parent doesn't mind their kid playing a violent game then so be it.

For me, i can do far more sick and twisted things in GTA than i ever could in Manhunt, as my camera full of pictures of dead hookers will attest to.

mikemac

Anytime I've been in a game store, I've often seen staff refuse to sell 18+ games to minors. Fair play, they are enforcing the rules.

The only way a minor can get it(leaving aside the internet) is to get an adult to buy it for them.

So parents in general can't realy be that outraged and concerned if some are buying unsuitable games in the first place.

I've heard the director of the IFCO on newstalk 106 a few times and he seems on the ball, I doubt this was a decision taken lightly.

5uspect

I wonder if this is a once off incident or will more games get banned?

It does seem that this game was banned as all it involves, or requires, is brutal killing. Now the likes of Doom, half-life, GTA and well most games pretty much revolve around some distraction like saving the world or something while engaging in nonstop killing. Even Condemned, which I found to be a pretty harsh game violence wise has a "goodness" element to it.

While I don't agree with the ban, I can see where they're coming from. I just worried that they'll get an appetite for it.
Censorship makes people do bad thing!:)

Duggy747

Dragan wrote:

For me, i can do far more sick and twisted things in GTA than i ever could in Manhunt, as my camera full of pictures of dead hookers will attest to.

Ha Ha! There was a discussion Fm104 last night about it where, suprise suprise, mammies, taxi drivers, and "professional" people called in talking utter horse whallop. One guy stated 13% of violence is caused by video games. WHAT!?! Where do you get that statistic from?

What next? A person will be arrested cuz he murdered someone with a high-quantum flux-capacitor plasma gun?

I remember a while ago PrimeTime done a program on boy racers and they got around to racing games like Need For Speed. Some "professional" stated that people play games like these and they can't tell the difference between game and reality when they're on the road. Jesus Christ!!!!!!! :mad:

MooseJam

Can anyone actually see the IFCO installing the game and playing it through, no way, I bet they just called their buddies in the BBFC as usual

Did they ever try to ban Carmeggedon? As far as I can remember, the whole purpose behind that game was to kill people.

5uspect

Duggy747 wrote:

Ha Ha! There was a discussion Fm104 last night about it where, suprise suprise, mammies, taxi drivers, and "professional" people called in talking utter horse whallop. One guy stated 13% of violence is caused by video games. WHAT!?! Where do you get that statistic from?

There's a lot of misinformation regarding the effects of games. For the most part they are good for concentration but can also get the adrenaline pumping, which is something that must be considered.

Duggy747 wrote:

What next? A person will be arrested cuz he murdered someone with a high-quantum flux-capacitor plasma gun?

Nah, I want one of these!

Duggy747 wrote:

I remember a while ago PrimeTime done a program on boy racers and they got around to racing games like Need For Speed. Some "professional" stated that people play games like these and they can't tell the difference between game and reality when they're on the road. Jesus Christ!!!!!!! :mad:

There is research that says the people tend to drive faster after playing racing games. That in no way says that people can't tell the difference. People may very well drive faster after going Karting or using the bumper cars at the fair ground. Its just down to the adrenaline pumping again.

flogen

Deleted User wrote:

Did they ever try to ban Carmeggedon? As far as I can remember, the whole purpose behind that game was to kill people.

I think it was, but in Carmageddon the main purpose is to win the race... killing is just a bonus!

Jackz

Wern't they zombie's in Carmageddon? Anyhow my opinion the ban will make it a very popular illegally aquired piece of media in the Uk and Ireland. Most people I know saw The Exorcist before it was unbaned.

Victor

flogen wrote:

Funny thing about that is that the current censor has been the most leniant - he gave 9 Songs an 18's cert and allowed it out on general release (as it should be IMO).

I would have banned 9 songs for being so boring.

Victor

Duggy747 wrote:

I remember a while ago PrimeTime done a program on boy racers and they got around to racing games like Need For Speed. Some "professional" stated that people play games like these and they can't tell the difference between game and reality when they're on the road. Jesus Christ!!!!!!! :mad:

You have to be aware of a few points, like the adrenelin, but also you ability to gauge angle, distance and speed. I was playing CS one night and later when crossing the road, I thought a car 100m away was only about 20m away.

Dave!

flogen wrote:

I think it was, but in Carmageddon the main purpose is to win the race... killing is just a bonus!

If this is the criteria by which they decide to ban games or not, then it's really laughable! I mean, how vague a story needs to be added into a game for it to avoid censorship?! Perhaps if the protagonist in Manhunt 2 was in love, it would be freely available. I'll bet he goes home and jerks off to pics of dismembered bodies and dead people -- surely that's enough!

Wossack

Guess Ill just have to go outside and beat real life people to death with my wii remote so

5uspect

Victor wrote:

You have to be aware of a few points, like the adrenelin, but also you ability to gauge angle, distance and speed. I was playing CS one night and later when crossing the road, I thought a car 100m away was only about 20m away.

Thats a very good point. Imagine driving in that condition. Driving etc after any kind of experience where your judgment may be impaired is always dangerous. Of course driving when a game makes you a complete sociopath is the last of your worries.

Dragan

DaveMcG wrote:

Perhaps if the protagonist in Manhunt 2 was in love, it would be freely available.

He loves killing.

Who are we to judge what kind of love is wrong?

flogen

DaveMcG wrote:

If this is the criteria by which they decide to ban games or not, then it's really laughable! I mean, how vague a story needs to be added into a game for it to avoid censorship?! Perhaps if the protagonist in Manhunt 2 was in love, it would be freely available. I'll bet he goes home and jerks off to pics of dismembered bodies and dead people -- surely that's enough!

Well it's not so much the plot (as far as I remember Carmageddon didn't have a plot), it's the reason for the game.

Carmageddon was a racing game which allowed you to splatter pedestrians (or zombie pedestrians, depending on the version you played).

Manhunt 2 is a murder game in which your single purpose is to murder in the most violent way imaginable.

I've said already, I don't have a problem with an 18+ year old playing a computer game of any nature - I'm just saying what I think the censor's justification is for the banning and why Manhunt is incomparable to other violent games.

5uspect

Anyone else getting database errors on this thread more so than other threads today? The thought police must be closing in...

I suppose they may say Carmageddon is an old enough arcady game where the graphics aren't realistic where as Manhunt may have more explicit or realistic graphics of actually murdering someone.

I haven't either games, not for any particular reason.

TerrorFirmer

I don't think it's a big deal, and not only because Manhunt was a rubbish game. I mean, most violent games offer some sort of realistic approach - Soldier of Fortune 2 was a war game which had fairly realistic violence options - even that was several years ago and no game since has violence as realistic, and even at that, it was a passable game without the violence on and had a great multiplayer mode. Even Postal 2, as sick as that was, was totally tongue in cheek and it was hilarious to play. Manhunt is just a gruesome, sick game that was obviously solely made as a video game alternative to the video nasties, and offers no other angles of gameplay really, and without violence, it actually wouldn't even be a game.

Also I doubt sales will 'rocket' - the game won't be available online from UK stores either. And it's quite possible it will get an almost total PAL ban - yes some people can mod their consoles for ntsc, but the vast majority can't or won't, and even if it even available online in europe an awful lot of people who'd have bought it in the shops won't buy it online.

As for carmadgeddon....that was a class game, with either the pedestrians or the zombies. Flying off a massive hill and landing on a huge group of people on the road....you used to get cool bonuses for the amount of people you splattered and how creatively

cooperguy

IFCO taking banning very seriously its the first game they have ever banned. Anybody saying they are following the UK should note that it was banned here first and IFCO have released things that have been banned in the UK.

And it wont make IFCO trigger happy and start banning all around them they dont like doing it and they will continue to not like doing it. John Kelleher is very liberal when it comes to ratings and bannings (rightly so too)

layke

Like anything that was banned in this country. It will be released when the hype dies down.

nesf

Storm, teacup etc.

Ciaran500

flogen wrote:

Manhunt 2 is a murder game in which your single purpose is to murder in the most violent way imaginable.

Like alot of clichéd movies/games the plot of this one is to get revenge after your were locked away in a asylum. Just instead of running around shooting people you kill people in creative ways.

This isn't a murder simulator like the media is making it out to be.

Slow Motion

Maybe they should rename the game to Banhunter and re-release it

flogen

Ciaran500 wrote:

Like alot of clichéd movies/games the plot of this one is to get revenge after your were locked away in a asylum. Just instead of running around shooting people you kill people in creative ways.

This isn't a murder simulator like the media is making it out to be.

Well arguably it is - not that that's a reason to ban something on its own.

Dragan

I don't think it matters. Anyone who truly wants to play the game will lay hands on it. Me? I'll be sitting on the train playing it on my PSP chuckling to myself about all the hype.

It's only a game afterall.