Buying an Engagement Ring in USA

Jonnykitedude

Guys
Im hoping to pop the question soon but im heading to the states in a few weeks.
Will i hang on and get a ring there or buy one back home.
Will it be worth my while buying one in the states???

Bulmers

definitely...1/3 of the price...diamonds cheap there, done it myself..got ring there and it's worth over 3 times here what paid for in US

Jonnykitedude

Bulmers wrote:

definitely...1/3 of the price...diamonds cheap there, done it myself..got ring there and it's worth over 3 times here what paid for in US

Cheers;)

darkskol

Yes if you shop around you can get amazing deals compared to Ireland. Just be careful about what your buying, do your research and only buy from a reputable dealer. Make sure the diamond is certified, there are a lot of rip off merchants around selling diamonds at a supposed discount but the quality of these diamonds can be poor.
Google is your friend here, plenty of guides to buying diamond rings.

e.g. http://www.thediamondbuyingguide.com/

One more thing dont forget about customs on the way home, duty on the ring could be quite expensive!

Fey!

darkskol wrote:

One more thing dont forget about customs on the way home, duty on the ring could be quite expensive!

Also bear in mind that if you intend not paying the charges at customs, then you are smuggling goods and breaking the law. Bulmers/Darkskol, did you pay yours?

As for the 1/3 difference, that would be the taxes that Irish dealers have to pay. And that difference doesn't always exist.

Jonnykitedude

thanks guys
Dont think ill be declaring anything at customs tho;)

darkskol

Fey! wrote:

Also bear in mind that if you intend not paying the charges at customs, then you are smuggling goods and breaking the law. Bulmers/Darkskol, did you pay yours?

I never actually bought a Diamond ring in the US. My fiances ring is an old family heirloom (she was proud to accept it and with the money I would of spent on a ring, we went on a nice holiday instead! ). Although my friends now wife is friends with a jeweller in New York so she got a good deal on hers and even with the duty she paid on the ring for bringing it over, it still worked out favourably to buying it here.

keyes

Bulmers wrote:

definitely...1/3 of the price...diamonds cheap there, done it myself..got ring there and it's worth over 3 times here what paid for in US

Bulmers;

diamonds have similar prices all over the world, except for duties and taxes. if you got it valued for so much more, perhaps you should question the accuracy of the valuation? if a diamond seems very cheap, there's usually a reason why!

DoubleL

Hey, I think you should get the ring in NY. My h2b proposed with an empty ring box and i was delighted because it meant i got to choose what sits on my finger for the rest ofmy life. We were going to go to NY to get the ring but firiend of a friend is a gemsetter and i ended up geting it made. Since then a few of my friends have gone to NY for theirs and they have come back with rocks! There does seem to be good value to be had there but you will probably have to dump the ring box coming through customs. Hannikens and Salvatoris in the diamond district are meant to be particularly good!

I am delighted with the ring I had made because it ticks all the 4C's and we got good value for money, if your fiancee to be is into size I would say take that flight!! Best of luck

LashingLady

For all of you guys who got your ring in the US, did you buy a ring that was already set or were you able to choose a diamond and a setting and have it made in the time that you were there?

I am going to Vegas next week for a week and would like to get my ring there but just wondering how much time is needed for custom rings?

Think I will do some looking in Dublin before I go aswell to try to figure out what suits me. Did you find that the styles that are available in America are pretty much the same as here?

Thanks y'All!!

Jonnykitedude

LashingLady wrote:

For all of you guys who got your ring in the US, did you
I am going to Vegas next week for a week and would like to get my ring there but just wondering how much time is needed for custom rings?


Thanks y'All!!

Same as do you know of any places there???

LashingLady

Not really Kite, did a bit of Googling but it's hard to tell what's good quality and what's not.

It seems that due to US girls' love of "big is better" that there may be a lot of places with lower quality larger diamonds that I or your f2b just may not be interested in.......

If I were you (well that's what I am going to do!) I would do a bit of shopping here in Dublin before I go and get an idea of what you get for your budget. You may find when you get to Vegas that what's on offer isn't really that special or good value...... And I do remember from looking with a friend before that a lot of Dublin places were very friendly when we were browsing....

Also, My boyf thinks that we should get a Tiffany ring (there's one in the Bellagio in Vegas) cos at least you know that you're getting quality and the brand.....

Does anyone have an opinion on this? Are you just buying the brand? Are you a bit of a mug to go with Tiffany?

Thanks again!!

Oh and good luck with popping the question. Vegas is a fab place to do it!!!:)

tinkerbell

It's always been my dream to get a ring in Tiffany but I have recently been turned off the idea because just everybody seems to be getting a Tiffany ring these days and making the idea of it less special. It just seems to be getting a bit too common for my liking.

I think I'd be more happy getting a ring in Boodles because they just have gorgeous diamonds there.

LashingLady

Well I am going to have a look in Boodles this weekend in Dublin, but it seemed to me from their UK site that they are even more expensive than Tiffany??

Add to that their ultra prime location on Grafton St and the fact that we Irish seem to be a rip-off target I don't have much confidence that I would end up getting somethere there....

And the point about everyone having a Tiffany ring but lots of people have say a BMW.... And with the Tiffany prices, I don't think that you could consider them common.

It's really about who's giving you the ring and that it's perfect for you that will make it special aswell!

Sizzler

Fey! wrote:

Also bear in mind that if you intend not paying the charges at customs, then you are smuggling goods and breaking the law. Bulmers/Darkskol, did you pay yours?

As for the 1/3 difference, that would be the taxes that Irish dealers have to pay. And that difference doesn't always exist.

FFS ! Hes going to the US for a reason, doesnt need a lecture on "breaking the law" in bringing back a ring hor his g/f !

I know someone who was told recently by email by an Irish diamond merchant that he wasnt being interested in being competitive with markets outside Ireland ! I think that says it all when someone can be so blatant in saying the Irish are such a soft touch that when someone puts it up to them that the exact same product can be bought elsewhere for 2-3k less than their prices they arent interested as there is some other gobshíte in the Q waiting to pay full price even if you have the cop on not to ! Id love to name and shame that crowd!

Fey!

Sizzler wrote:

FFS ! Hes going to the US for a reason, doesnt need a lecture on "breaking the law" in bringing back a ring hor his g/f !

I know someone who was told recently by email by an Irish diamond merchant that he wasnt being interested in being competitive with markets outside Ireland ! I think that says it all when someone can be so blatant in saying the Irish are such a soft touch that when someone puts it up to them that the exact same product can be bought elsewhere for 2-3k less than their prices they arent interested as there is some other gobshíte in the Q waiting to pay full price even if you have the cop on not to ! Id love to name and shame that crowd!

Why don't you name them? Or is this yet moe internet spouted rubbish?

The difference in price is usually local taxes; diamonds get traded from a central point.

What I was saying works like this; if you're stopped by customs, ring on your finger or in a box, it's up to you to prove that you bought the ring in Ireland and paid the taxes, NOT for them to prove that you bought it abroad and smuggled it in.

S

Sizzler

Fey! wrote:

Why don't you name them? Or is this yet moe internet spouted rubbish?

The difference in price is usually local taxes; diamonds get traded from a central point.

What I was saying works like this; if you're stopped by customs, ring on your finger or in a box, it's up to you to prove that you bought the ring in Ireland and paid the taxes, NOT for them to prove that you bought it abroad and smuggled it in.

S

Eh, no, not internet rubbish. I'm not going to be goaded into naming them...not yet at least Suffice to say if you google diamonds and Dublin you will stumble across their website handy enough!

Dont think taxes would account for 2-3K on a 1 carat diamond for example, do you

As for getting stopped at customs, you must have had a bad experience, I've travelled in from the US more times than I care to remember, even at Xmas when they try and catch the NYC shoppers and Ive yet to see someone waved in, let alone have time to review a persons jewellery!

stovelid

I would say yes. We bought platinum wedding bands in the states (ok my wife did ) and it worked out well cheaper.

darkskol wrote:

One more thing dont forget about customs on the way home, duty on the ring could be quite expensive!

We wore them for the rest of the trip and coming home. Wearing her engagement ring back might be trickier OP

Sizzler

stovelid wrote:

We wore them for the rest of the trip and coming home. Wearing her engagement ring back might be trickier OP

Wearing a wedding ring coming back from the states isnt suspicious but an engagement ring is They dont have engagement ring police waiting for people coming off every US flight you know

Unshelved

If you do decide to buy abroad and avoid customs declarations by wearing the rings home - be very careful who you tell afterwards.

A relative of mine bought his wife a diamond necklace in the States and she wore it home. They mentioned it to a couple of friends in passing. A couple of months later, on a Saturday morning, two customs officials called to their house asking to see the jewellery and to see a recept or credit card receipts. It turned out that one of their "friends" had tipped customs off. The jewellery was confiscated until the customs charges plus a hefty fine was paid off.

Sizzler

Unshelved wrote:

If you do decide to buy abroad and avoid customs declarations by wearing the rings home - be very careful who you tell afterwards.

A relative of mine bought his wife a diamond necklace in the States and she wore it home. They mentioned it to a couple of friends in passing. A couple of months later, on a Saturday morning, two customs officials called to their house asking to see the jewellery and to see a recept or credit card receipts. It turned out that one of their "friends" had tipped customs off. The jewellery was confiscated until the customs charges plus a hefty fine was paid off.

With friends like that who needs enemies :eek: Must have been a slow day at the customs office if they were bothered about a necklace, they'd be better off chasing the bigger fish dont you think.

Fey!

Sizzler wrote:

With friends like that who needs enemies :eek: Must have been a slow day at the customs office if they were bothered about a necklace, they'd be better off chasing the bigger fish dont you think.

Yeah, like the VRT dodgers.

With the amount of jewellery smuggled into this country each year, it would be well worth their while hitting the inbound planes.

Sizzler

Fey! wrote:

Yeah, like the VRT dodgers.

With the amount of jewellery smuggled into this country each year, it would be well worth their while hitting the inbound planes.

Dont get me started on VRT !! Better stay on topic tho

I think you work for the revenue commissioners

stovelid

Sizzler wrote:

I think you work for the revenue commissioners

or a jeweler

Fey!

stovelid wrote:

or a jeweler

You've been reading the stickies, haven't you???

Essentislly, the difference in price between Ireland and abroad is usually the taxes, despite what a lot of people proclaim. And a lot of the time the diamonds aren't what they're described as.

For example, I had a guy in to me yesterday who bought in America. The diamond was described as an F colour, VS clarity, 1.20ct princess cut, certified diamond. It also had a value of $13,700 according to the jeweller in the states.

In reality, it was about a G colour, but it was colour enhanced. When you looked at the stone, you could immediatly see inclusions in it, including a fracture almost the width of the diamond under the table. The cut proportions weren't particularly good. In fact, the only things correct were the diamond weight (I have to assume that, as I didn't take the stone out of the setting to weigh it), and the cut type (princess). The "certificate" had a photograph of the ring, which immediatly shows that the certificate is not actually a certificate, as diamonds can only be graded for certification when they're loose (unset).

So, in fact, it was a G colour (after enhancement), PK clarity, 1.20ct (?) princess cut, uncertified diamond. Value? The square root of damn all; I wouldn't stock a stone like the one described, as I wouldn't be able to sell it due to the clarity or the enhancement; the difference is, I would have been honest with my customer about them.

At least if the customer had bought in Ireland, he could have gone back to the shop to get it sorted out. In this case, he's stuffed unless he takes the cost of another trip to the states to get it sorted (flights, accomadation, food, etc.)

Sizzler

Fey! wrote:

You've been reading the stickies, haven't you???

I didnt but it all makes sense now Fairplay Stovelid !

The lad you had into you is unfortunate but lets face it thats probably an uncommon occurence. Would be interested to know if that diamond was GIA certified??? If it wasnt then thats his own fault.

Its only natural you try to defend your livelyhood but I can tell you Ive seen an example of a GIA stone emailed with cert and photos and then a variety of Irish jewellers were asked to price it and the prices varied from €7-8.5k :eek:
The diamond was then also submitted to several offshore jewellers and the price quoted for the same quality & carat was coming in at $4000-4750...which is roughly €3500 at todays retail exchange rate Please explain!

Taxes can explain many things but they cant defend sheer greed of retailers.

Apart from your example, I dont know anybody who has bought a ring abroad and come back to Ireland and told its worth the same or less then they paid for it elsewhere.
Rip off Ireland rant over

Fey!

Sizzler; this is not an uncommon occurence. Also, the GIA is not the only reputable gem lab in the business.

You're going to have to name and shame the people who quoted you, along with their figures and the figures of the "offshore" companies who quoted you, as what you say reeks of BS and an "if it's an Irish company it's a rip-off company" mentality, ala your Eddie Hobbs quotation.

The difference in the diamond price is all relative to the size and quality of the diamond; a $4k difference in a ring bought for $8k is a lot, as the taxes would be about $2,400, making a $1,600 difference. A $4k difference on a ring bought for $16k would make the foreign one expensive, as the takes would be $4,800, making the foreign one $800 above the Irish one.

But I nearly forgot, you agree with smuggling the ring and not paying the taxes.

If Irish jewellers are so expensive, then why do Americans buy a lot of jewellery here?

OP; sorry for letting this get dragged so off topic; it just grinds my gears when someone spouts unsubstantiated rubbish as fact.

Sizzler

Fey! wrote:

You're going to have to name and shame the people who quoted you, along with their figures and the figures of the "offshore" companies who quoted you, as what you say reeks of BS and an "if it's an Irish company it's a rip-off company" mentality, ala your Eddie Hobbs quotation.

Not BS fact. As I said, Im not going to be bullied into naming people on a public forum by you. The pity is you are in the business so you cant 'mystery shop' but if you are that intent on rooting out the rip off guys, then you wont have to try too hard, trust me

Fey! wrote:

But I nearly forgot, you agree with smuggling the ring and not paying the taxes.

LOL. Its a ring, get over it. If you dont like the tax regime here then maybe you should set up elsewhwere

Fey! wrote:

If Irish jewellers are so expensive, then why do Americans buy a lot of jewellery here?.

Didnt know they did tbh,but Im sure you have figures to substantiate that claim!

Fey! wrote:

OP; sorry for letting this get dragged so off topic; it just grinds my gears when someone spouts unsubstantiated rubbish as fact.

Oh stop with the rubbish thing. The point on me replying to this thread was to highlight that there is more bang for your buck elsewhere and it pays to shop around BIG TIME. Fair play to the OP, I hope he got a nice ring and I bet it gets valued here at 30%-50% more than he paid for it. And you know what Im sure theres plenty of people who have done the same and would be happy to prove my 'unsubstantiated rubbish'...so folks any stories out there of big savings in comparison to what Ireland has to offer?

keyes

Sizzler wrote:

LOL. Its a ring, get over it. If you dont like the tax regime here then maybe you should set up elsewhwere

that's just silly about the tax regime; we all have to pay taxes. what about people who smuggle cigarettes? are they just exercising their right to dodge taxes? are you a civil servant, paid from these taxes? do you claim mortgage interest relief? do you claim tax credits? if you do, then that's drawing from the pool of money that we all contribute to. don't complain about the difference between tax-free and tax compliant prices. we all pay them, we all dislike them (!), we all want to be the one exception to the rule but still have the services that other peoples' taxes provide.

furthermore, you may not be aware, but diamonds are priced similarly all over the world. price lists are produced in new york every week, and they are no sooner printed than widely circulated, fronm tibet to thurles. when a diamond is cheap, there's a reason why. (cutting is the most common one, as it's the one most people have no idea how to interpret. a cert saying "excellent proportions", for example, can just mean that the stone is symmetrical, not that it's beautiful!!)

(you may have guessed that i am a jeweller, so hardly neutral, it must be admitted.)

Sizzler wrote:

Oh stop with the rubbish thing. The point on me replying to this thread was to highlight that there is more bang for your buck elsewhere and it pays to shop around BIG TIME. Fair play to the OP, I hope he got a nice ring and I bet it gets valued here at 30%-50% more than he paid for it. And you know what Im sure theres plenty of people who have done the same and would be happy to prove my 'unsubstantiated rubbish'...so folks any stories out there of big savings in comparison to what Ireland has to offer?

on a point of clarity, having someone tell you "oh, it's worth 30% more here" is not much use to anyone if this is not accurate. i know one valuer who doubles the purchase price when he writes a valuation. why? to cover himself from claims of negligence if the ring is lost and the ring is undervalued. it doesn't mean that the ring is actually worth that. insurance companies aren't stupid. they pay out what the ring is worth, not what some piece of paper claims it to be worth.

i do agree that you should shop around. i agree that different shops offer different products, different services, different levels of expertise and customer care. an informed shopper should realise this, and choose how much service (guarantee, repairs, valuation updates, proximity, ease with which you can return in the event of a problem, etc.) they want. if you're happy with smuggling, with tax dodging, and with never being able to go back to the shop with a problem (snagged claws, ring too big/too small, tightening a setting - this happens often) then fire away, i can't stop you. however, i find your attitude a bit argumentative, and a bit too much in the "everyone is ripping me off" vein.

whosedaddy?

All very interesting...

Back to the uninformed view of the ordinary punter....

Ok size and price does matter - but above all SHE needs to like the ring and YOU need to think its worth the money. And no matter where/what you buy - there is always a risk that someone might tell you you've paid over the odds.

I for one was thinking about going to Antwerp to get a better deal. But during the planning of the trip, and going through Dublin jewellers / contemporary design galleries I got a recommendation for a shop in Belfast.

One trip to Belfast later my fiancee had changed her mind about what ring/ type of cut she wanted cause she saw a ring she really loved - the only one she had seen so far... All the planning went out the window and she is very, very happy.

And to be honest - I don't care that much whether it was a good deal or a bad deal. It feels like a good deal at the monent.

Re certs - what good is the best cert from the most recognised lab - If I can't read it. Someone tells me what it says.. and from what I was told by experts - describing color and clarity is not an exact science.. so the results will vary.

We might go and have the ring valued in Dublin at some stage, but it is not a priority and also what good will it do? She loves the ring as is - she can't love it even more, but she can loose that feeling and what then?

Without romanticising it too much (at the end of the day its an expensive investment), if the OP only wants to buy in the US cause he thinks its a better deal - I hope your fiancee won't just pick a ring cause its cheaper over there - she should pick a ring she loves / and you can afford... so dodging taxes might just be the result of a ring you otherwise wouldn't be able to afford.

Also, do you want to buy ring on your own or let her pick? I think picking a ring abroad on your own is asking for trouble. I know couples where she HATES the ring he picked and it took her years to actually tell him...

Its like buying goods over the internet, its great as long it all works out, but if it doesn't you pay over the odds to get it sorted.

faceman

keyes wrote:

furthermore, you may not be aware, but diamonds are priced similarly all over the world. price lists are produced in new york every week, and they are no sooner printed than widely circulated, fronm tibet to thurles. when a diamond is cheap, there's a reason why. (cutting is the most common one, as it's the one most people have no idea how to interpret. a cert saying "excellent proportions", for example, can just mean that the stone is symmetrical, not that it's beautiful!!)

as a jeweller im sure you can appreciate that the average engagement ring shopper knows feck all about rings and diamonds etc and therefore may not be privy to such info.

Im sure the cost price of diamonds are pretty simliar worldwide but the mark up the jeweller adds is a different story and not consistent around the world and this is the whole point that Sizzler seems to be making.

Like any industry you are going to have your dodgy dealers but by shopping around with reputable shops you cant go wrong. Shop within the EU and you dont have to worry about tax issues.

Ireland is a very expensive country to buy diamond jewellery in. Equal quality jewellery for example can be purchased far cheaper in antwerp.

There are plenty of stories on askaboutmoney.com with tales of people's expeditions abroad to be quality diamond jewellery at a cheaper price. They cant all be wrong?

I have a diamond valued in ireland for over 3 times the price it was purchased for in antwerp. (I have certs etc i can scan them) the diamond was valued in 3 shops in dublin. all 3 came fairly close in their valuations with each other. Were they poor valuers?

Sizzler

keyes wrote:

that's just silly about the tax regime; we all have to pay taxes. what about people who smuggle cigarettes? are they just exercising their right to dodge taxes? are you a civil servant, paid from these taxes? do you claim mortgage interest relief? do you claim tax credits? if you do, then that's drawing from the pool of money that we all contribute to. don't complain about the difference between tax-free and tax compliant prices. we all pay them, we all dislike them (!), we all want to be the one exception to the rule but still have the services that other peoples' taxes provide.

Lets keep on topic, issues about "smuggling" etc is not for this forum. It was Fey who started the crap about smuggling, like it was some certain of international crime where men in black are going to come and pull you out of your bed at night because you dared buy a ring elsewhere:eek:

keyes wrote:

furthermore, you may not be aware, but diamonds are priced similarly all over the world. price lists are produced in new york every week, and they are no sooner printed than widely circulated, fronm tibet to thurles. when a diamond is cheap, there's a reason why. (cutting is the most common one, as it's the one most people have no idea how to interpret. a cert saying "excellent proportions", for example, can just mean that the stone is symmetrical, not that it's beautiful!!)

As faceman said yeah they might be all traded at the same price but the mark up aint. And if you took the trouble to read my earlier posts I can tell you there was a specificed diamond emailed to various diamond merchants / jewellers that advertise themselves on google in Ireland and they themselves had varying prices which to me suggested they all charged what they felt was right. As far as Im concerned there was no ambiguity, the carat, colour, grade,cut and clarity was all specified as well as a pre-requisite for the stone to be HRD/GIA certified, failr cut and dried imho. No two diamonds the same but the based on the requirements there shouldnt be chasms in price.

Keyes wrote:

(you may have guessed that i am a jeweller, so hardly neutral, it must be admitted.)

I could be too but hey you take your chances on message boards mate

keyes wrote:

on a point of clarity, having someone tell you "oh, it's worth 30% more here" is not much use to anyone if this is not accurate. i know one valuer who doubles the purchase price when he writes a valuation. why? to cover himself from claims of negligence if the ring is lost and the ring is undervalued. it doesn't mean that the ring is actually worth that. insurance companies aren't stupid. they pay out what the ring is worth, not what some piece of paper claims it to be worth.

As a previous poster says once the punter is happy then it doesnt really matter what its worth but if you have a budget (like 90% of people would Im guessing) then its only natural that the lady would want to pick something in that bracket and based on what Ive seen the carat size alone for the same price varies wildly in Ireland versus Antwerp for example.

keyes wrote:

i find your attitude a bit argumentative, and a bit too much in the "everyone is ripping me off" vein.

Thats your opinion which is fine.I certainly didnt say everybody is ripping me off I simply said there was value to be had for diamond rings elsewhere in comparison to Ireland. Antwerp being a case in point.

Anyway I think this thread is becoming like the "Housing bubble is about to pop" in the Housing forum and given the lack if impartiality its run out of steam already, so I think we'll leave it there folks and if any other punters have experiences to tell about buying rings abroad Im sure they'll be only too happy to post here with their experiences

Jonnykitedude

got a fantastic ring in the wedding shop in oahu in hawaii,couldn of asked for anything better.Oh and she did wear it getting off the plane in dublin:p

whosedaddy?

well done - congrats...

oh and its a good sign you call it a fantastic ring.. instead of a good deal...

pow wow

Hanniken's in NYC is fab.

One word though about buying there in general is that it can be very difficult to get the ring valued once you get home (haven't had any success yet in Cork!) so you are taking a leap of faith with the valuation you're given in America by the guy who sells it to you.

sud

Hi ellscurr,
I bought a ring a few months ago in NY and got it valued when i came home in a jewelers in Midleton (castalia jewelers), there was no problem with it being bought in NY, the valuer calls to them every few weeks so they will give you a call the day before to let you know when to drop the ring down. I was very pleased with my valuation over 2 and half times what i payed for it.:)

Bulmers

keyes wrote:

Bulmers;

diamonds have similar prices all over the world, except for duties and taxes. if you got it valued for so much more, perhaps you should question the accuracy of the valuation? if a diamond seems very cheap, there's usually a reason why!

Diamond is certified, bought from reputable dealer, friend of ours works in the industry here too and she confirmed the evalaution and the quality of the diamond so that's enough for me, main thing is she loves it, we bought it in the city we got engaged in and where we met so also had sentimental meaning too..

bostonian

Don't buy from American malls- they're way overpriced and use high-pressure sales tactics.