Anybody else sick of the waste?

Cuddlesworth

When I started building my first pc I spent close to 4 months working out the best parts, finding out the best prices and built a damm nice pc for a small amount of cash.

I started to overclock and realized that I could get even more from even less money.

Now I pop onto the building and upgrading forums and see threads like these

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055092189
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055091604

I mean, how can you justify spending close to four grand on a pc that could be mabye 10-15% faster then one for two grand. To put things in perspective, would you sell your 3 bedroom house for 500k, to move into the house next door with 4 bedrooms for 1 million?

I just built my second rig for just over 1k. I just can't understand the waste involved in building something like the pc's in the threads above.

Can you?

Endurance Man

The e-penis, people just want the best, i think its funny ^^.

Anti

Its the price to pay when your a true tech head. I used to do it but realised the money is much better spent on such things like beer !

requiem1

Anti wrote:

Its the price to pay when your a true tech head. I used to do it but realised the money is much better spent on such things like beer !

yeah beer is way better than computer parts and beer also makes your computer appear way better than it actually is

Anti

Qft !

papu

bang for buck is where its at :P

DirkVoodoo

Don't worry krazy, the true system builders go for cheaper components and make them out perform the more expensive ones, thats the fun.

With all due respect to €>sense, he didnt listen to a lot of good advice. Dual 8800GTX on a 20" monitor is really, really pointless. By the time a single 8800GTX begins to get bogged down, a newer, better, cheaper card will be available and the upgrade is less painful. Going Sli to prolong your rig is fine, but going Sli off the blocks to get over 100FPS (on a 75Hz LCD!?!) is bordering on retardation.

But sure if some people are happy to spend 4000 on a PC, let them at it, its far more satisfying buying cheaper parts that kick its ass.

I find it like second hand car buying, the real fun is in the haggling, the autotrader ads and the replacement of engine parts or body panels. But some people like going into the bmw showroom, being given a cappuccino and flicking through the options list....ooooh, I really do need to spend 10 grand on massage seats, or GPS for driving around dublin!

dazftw

I agree actually now, Im after spend over 3000 on mine.. some of thats been upgrading monitor, new case, speakers, desk and chair.. but as for the pc I bought really the best parts I could get really it cost me just 2 grand!

Now im going to build my mother(me included incase I ever run into problems with my pc) a pc and buy really cheap stuf and overclclock and try get the best I can for the €800 mark!

Should be good ill get to build another pc aswell :P

po0k

I spent ~2K on a machine 2 years ago, quality parts, not top of the range, but solid.
I'll never spend that much ever again.

Anti

If i had 15k spare, id put it into a pc no hassle. Most of the cost would go on 4 30" screens though

L31mr0d

Its all about your disposable income I guess. I like to get a deal on nearly everything and don't mind waiting an extra few weeks to get it. Even though i've saved countless hundreds on buying second hand hardware, if I had the disposable income, i'd buy it brand new.

People who think its a waste of money are people who don't have as much disposable income and know if it was them they'd invest some of that money in a new car or holiday...etc. If you have enough disposable income to buy a top of the line PC and still have money to invest in a car and holiday then why not? The money is just burning a hole in your pocket anyway?

From your reasoning krazy_8s, you could also postulate what is the point in a person buying an expensive sports car when they are only ever going to be able to drive the speed limit? Surely THAT is a waste of money also. Fact of the matter is, if you have the money, why buy anything less than the best?

DirkVoodoo

I saw a brand new Ferrari F430 driving around foxrock last weekend. While I would give my right arm to own one, however as a car-lover (of the engineering, not the physical act) I think its sad to see a great car like that confined to Irish roads where it will never get a chance to do what it was designed to.

Somewhat similar to buying ridiculously over the top PCs to play a few light games (HL2, football manager) or general surfing.

While some people may have the money, what is the point? I don't think its bregrudgery, fair deuce to anyone who does buy such high end stuff, provided its used to its potential.

L31mr0d

I think the title of this thread should refer more to waste of PC resources rather than waste of money.

If somebody was to spend 5k on a PC and overclock it to its potential or compete for the 3Dmark world record *cough* kingpin *cough*, run resource heavy apps and games and use it as an idling folding rig then I wouldn't have much of a problem.

But people who spend ridiculous amounts of money on a machine with overclocking CPUs, RAM and motherboards and never overclock them but use it for some WoW, CSS and browsing. That to me is the real waste.

dazftw

L31mr0d wrote:

use it for some WoW

lol

Whos your man who spent 2600 on a rig and the only game I think he plays is wow... than and BF2 I checked his Xfire thing :rolleyes:

Deaddue I think?

Besides gaming I do alot of video and photo editing so im getting a good use from my pc!

L31mr0d

DeafVision wrote:

Besides gaming I do alot of video and photo editing so im getting a good use from my pc!

some really good photos in your sig link btw, love the fireworks ones.

Cuddlesworth

L31mr0d wrote:

I think the title of this thread should refer more to waste of PC resources rather than waste of money.

I can't agree with that, my problem is with the waste of money. How much faster is a 8800Ultra that a Gtx? And how much more does it cost? The same with proc's, mobos and power supplys. You can say if they have the money, why not?

I say because its a fools purchase. You don't pay over the odds for a car because its a slightly better car. You pay over the odds because its a bloody sports car and makes everything else look like ****. You can't apply the same thinking to pc's, for some reason people are prepared to pay stupid money for something that just is not that good.

And my God, the depreciation. You say you buy second hand. Why is that?

L31mr0d wrote:

If somebody was to spend 5k on a PC and overclock it to its potential or compete for the 3Dmark world record *cough* kingpin *cough*, run resource heavy apps and games and use it as an idling folding rig then I wouldn't have much of a problem.

Kingpin has put countless hours into perfecting his overclocking and getting everything right. I don't think that for 1 second, even with 5 grand anybody on this forum could come close to his benchmarking scores.

And I don't think anybody wants too. People here use their pc's before benching them. And as for folding etc, would it not be cheaper to build 4 dual cores rigs on the cheap then a single quad core golith?

L31mr0d wrote:

But people who spend ridiculous amounts of money on a machine with overclocking CPUs, RAM and motherboards and never overclock them but use it for some WoW, CSS and browsing. That to me is the real waste.

I do agree its a waste. But is the fact that for half the price, they never would have noticed the difference. I mean, I see these threads and I see the budgets. But its rare to see somebody turn around and post "You don't need to spend that much". When I build for friends, I ask 2 questions. What's you budget and what do you use it for? And now even little 15 and 16 years olds don't seem to care about either of the questions, they just want to have the no:1 pc they never use.

It's just a waste, a waste of money and a waste of a great pc.



But there is a plus side, the stupid money spent on these parts funds cheaper prices for the parts I buy.

L31mr0d

But what you aren't explaining then is WHY it is a waste to spend money on the best components when you have the money to do so?

Yes I buy 2nd hand, and yes I know that with depreciation I can get hardware 6 months from now at a 1/4 of the price people paid for them new. But this is because this suits my budget.

I can at least have perspective though that where I earning twice as much as I am i'd buy the latest hardware as soon as it was released as my disposable income would allow it.

It is only a waste from the perspective of someone with a smaller budget. Someone who would have a budget of 10k or more for a PC would probably think the people you refered to where actually shrewd in their choices of computer parts.

dazftw

Would I be right saying most of its for bragging rights?

One thing though I cant stand though is people getting SLI gtx's for a 22"

Creamy Goodness

i thought this was going to be on packaging.

i'm not sick of the waste, because whatever other people do with their money is of no concern to me. if it makes them feel big on the internet i'll let them feel that, if they use it for the full potential fair play, if they've money to waste again fair play to them but don't look for sympathy when you've hit money problems cause you can't shave an inch off your e-cock and expect to get close to your investment back.

Cuddlesworth

L31mr0d wrote:

But what you aren't explaining then is WHY it is a waste to spend money on the best components when you have the money to do so?

I though I had. Sure I could go out tommorow and buy a 4k car crash it into a bridge laugh at it and walk off. If I had the money. I'm not dealing in "if's". By the simple fact that they have a budget they have money constrants. I'm sure if you pm'd any of the people with these builds asking have they limitless money they might give a different answer to the one your are saying. And its never been said to them, they don't have to spend that much.

L31mr0d wrote:

Yes I buy 2nd hand, and yes I know that with depreciation I can get hardware 6 months from now at a 1/4 of the price people paid for them new. But this is because this suits my budget.

This also used to get mentioned quite a lot on here. But for some reason, not any more.

L31mr0d wrote:

I can at least have perspective though that where I earning twice as much as I am i'd buy the latest hardware as soon as it was released as my disposable income would allow it.

Congrats. So just to ask, if you were earning twice as much money tommorow, would you go out and buy the 1000 quid quad core or a smaller one more likely to overclock. Would you really spend 1,200 on 2 Ultras? Really?

L31mr0d wrote:

It is only a waste from the perspective of someone with a smaller budget. Someone who would have a budget of 10k or more for a PC would probably think the people you refered to where actually shrewd in their choices of computer parts.

You seem to be confused with the use of the word budget. You see if I turned around to you and said to you these 2 statements:

"I want to spend 10k on a pc"
"I have a budget of 10k for a pc"

There is a difference, people use the work budget for the amount they can absoulty have to spend. Not how much you should tell them to, to get that last 2 fps for that last grand.


If you want to spend Stupid money on a pc fine, but nobody is saying you don't have to spend this much money. I see that as a waste.

Cremo wrote:

i thought this was going to be on packaging.

Hmm, that would be a better thread title....

L31mr0d

ok so we will agree that from a person with your perspective spending x amount of money on a PC is a waste. I'm glad we've reached this consensus.

Perspective though can change everything, ergo some might say spending a lot of money to buy WD Raptors is not worth the marginal performance increase. Other people however wouldn't.

Some people might view the endevour of buying and building computers at all to be a waste of money. Why not spend that money on your family, traveling or donating to charity.

You see, like Cremo said, what other people do with their money is their business because from their perspective it isn't a waste if they enjoy it and can afford it.

DanGerMus

I have to agree with you krazy_8s. It is stupid spending the amount of money that people are for those last few fps. Admitedlty if i had the extra money i would consider it but not for long i'd rather have a nice holiday.

For the price of a gtx ultra you could upgrade once a year to what you "need" something that will do max settings and res at an appropriate res on a 19-22" (which admit it is what the majority have) for the next 3-4 years and i garuntee that in 2 years a E250-300+ card will beat the living sh1te out of todays €1000 card. I dont think i even have to go down the road of SLI'd ultras. baah!!

So if you look at it it just makes more economic sense.
But not everyone thinks that way. My money situation dictates my spending and i'm broke lol.

Now if i had a 46" 1080p TV it would be a different story, but it's the people with regular monitors that are just throwing away money.

But to be fair to the post in question at least he knows he has €>sense. Though is it a good or bad thing?

TonyM.

Half the fun of building a pc is finding bargains ,the only new parts in my computer are the harddrives total cost approx €1500.00

DirkVoodoo

I think we can agree then that what we would prefer to see is people asking "What is the best, cutting edge build to play WoW, Sup Com and listen to music" or "I need a good 2-3k PC to do editing/encoding" rather than "I have 5k to spend, help me spend it!!!".

That way we will see the audiophiles spend money on a nice 5.1 system, gamers go for a dualcore, GTX setup.

Maybe a sticky with guidelines on "spec me a PC" thoughts and suggestions so people with more money than sense don't get suckered in. Its easy when you don't know much about your needs and hardware as a PC novice to think "well, if 2k buys me a great rig, then 10k will buy me a super-duper, future-proof gaming beast.

All im saying, in a non-too-concise fashion, is to show people that when building PCs, spending huge amounts of money is not a wise investment.

Oh, and my car analogy wasnt about buying really nice sports cars, it was about buying really nice 200 mph sports cars IN IRELAND. Which is still a valid comparison in my opinion.

EDIT: Thread in building&upgrading serves as case in point: "Best money no object motherboard". Guy says he wants best motherboard for gaming. Looking at his sig he already has possibly one of the best gaming rigs I have seen in a while, for a 24" screen. He also seems to be running everything at stock. An upgrade seems pointless, I mean what benefit will be seen for any modern game?

TheDoc

my rig cost me 800 euros and came assembled. Heres the specs.

AMD 3700+
200gig SATA HDD
Nvidi 6800LE 256mb pci ex GFX
RTM Gaming Case
Gigabyte Ga-K8n-sli 939
2 X 512mb crucial pc3200 400 mhz ram
1 logitech gamers keyboard
1 logitech mx518 gaming mouse
Razer exact mouse mat
Windows XP professional

Computer was build for me and tested and cost me 850 incl shipping.

I could have gone and built it myself, and i could have splashed mad cash. But this machine plays the latest games on the highest specs, fear, hl2, c&c generals, c&c 3, world of warcraft...the works.

Best money i ever spent and the mobo has room for future expansions like dual core procs and sli so im well ok.

B00MSTICK

Mine was 1k when the 165 was just released bought alot 2nd hand incl the case from krazy I reckon if I did get a major cash injection id still go for the "bang for buck" option.

Agree with what alot of ppl have said like paying a huge preminun for the "ultra" edition for an extra few frames at insane resolution seems crazy.

Like the used car idea aswell why buy a 07 car when you can get a very similar spec and condition 04 for a hell of alot less?

Ha but the great thing bout the interweb is you can just lie! Aswell as the the "wow your pc is better than mine but youre still **** at CS" line

Anti

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote:

my rig cost me 800 euros and came assembled. Heres the specs.

AMD 3700+
200gig SATA HDD
Nvidi 6800LE 256mb pci ex GFX
RTM Gaming Case
Gigabyte Ga-K8n-sli 939
2 X 512mb crucial pc3200 400 mhz ram
1 logitech gamers keyboard
1 logitech mx518 gaming mouse
Razer exact mouse mat
Windows XP professional

Computer was build for me and tested and cost me 850 incl shipping.

I could have gone and built it myself, and i could have splashed mad cash. But this machine plays the latest games on the highest specs, fear, hl2, c&c generals, c&c 3, world of warcraft...the works.

Best money i ever spent and the mobo has room for future expansions like dual core procs and sli so im well ok.

Sorry but most of them games are 2/3 years old now. Try running c&c3 at 1680*1080 with full AA/AF and max details.

Like said before, if you have the money spare, buy what you want.

uberpixie

I think the only thing I ever see as wasteful is people who go out and put together a €2500+ rig and then sell it on less than a year later to build another rig that is really only a bit of a speed bump in comparison to the old one.:eek:

I usually try and get at least 2 1/2 to 3 years out of a rig at least before I change it totally, (there is the odd little upgrade or two within that time of course)

Just don't see the point of upgrading the entire machine sooner and I dont have the money to do it either!

But that is just me:D

TheDoc

i have cnc 3 and play it full spec, not a bother .

TerrorFirmer

Ah I think you get what he is saying. It's an old machine now and not going to be great for the newer games. C&C might have been a bad example, it's not very intensive. Try running something like Rainbow Six Vegas, Company of Heroes, Mark of Chaos, that sort of newer stuff....even older stuff like Battlefield 2/Battlefield 2142 on high res with all options on...

I don't upgrade my machine for years either. I just add bits and pieces as I need them...

Also it depends on what way you look at it. For me, I get a new card when my old one can't play games at high settings at native res any longer. Some people don't mind slipping down into playing games at medium settings before they upgrade, but that's definitely not me!

L31mr0d

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote:

i have cnc 3 and play it full spec, not a bother .

what resolution are you playing games at? 800x600? I can't believe your claim that you are able to play these games at max settings using a 6800LE. I had a spec almost identical to yours at the beginning of last year (had the 3700+ at 2.7Ghz and 6800Ultra, a lot better than the LE) and it was FEAR that convinced me to upgrade my graphics card as I was getting FPS below 20 at 1280x1024 with everything on high.

I'm now on a 1080P plasma, and my 8800GTX just barely runs Spiderman 3, DiRT and GRAW 2 at max settings... try running those games on your PC, games that actually are new and actually require a high spec PC.

I personally only upgrade out of necessity. If I can't run a game or app or my PC is slower than i'd like it I upgrade. I purposely have avoided buying into the P35 chipset as I don't plan on upgrading again for at least another year.

shanethemofo

uberpixie wrote:

I think the only thing I ever see as wasteful is people who go out and put together a €2500+ rig and then sell it on less than a year later to build another rig that is really only a bit of a speed bump in comparison to the old one.:eek:

I usually try and get at least 2 1/2 to 3 years out of a rig at least before I change it totally, (there is the odd little upgrade or two within that time of course)

Just don't see the point of upgrading the entire machine sooner and I dont have the money to do it either!

But that is just me:D

But if you are somebody who constantly upgrades then you might only spend ~ 1k, 1.5k a year because your constantly selling old stuff to part finance the new stuff. that makes sense but its the initial startup money that is the main problem with this method

L31mr0d

shanethemofo wrote:

But if you are somebody who constantly upgrades then you might only spend ~ 1k, 1.5k a year because your constantly selling old stuff to part finance the new stuff. that makes sense but its the initial startup money that is the main problem with this method

yeah this is how I reason it. The initial cost is what kills you but after that you can pretty much live on around an extra 1k a year for a top of the line PC with getting the parts second hand and selling off the old stuff.

DirkVoodoo

Very interested by your recent build log L31mrod, do you use ebay for these second hand purchases as well as adverts? Is it safe enough buying from the states (customs/jerkhole sellers, etc.)?

I think this second hand market is a PC builders dream. most components don't get overclocked, modern fans come equipped with fantastic bearings and are easy enough to swap out in PSUs, heat sinks, etc. and protection like "double lifetime warranties" only sweeten the deal.

L31mr0d

DirkVoodoo wrote:

I think this second hand market is a PC builders dream. most components don't get overclocked, modern fans come equipped with fantastic bearings and are easy enough to swap out in PSUs, heat sinks, etc. and protection like "double lifetime warranties" only sweeten the deal.

What i've found to be the ideal position to be in for the compulsive PC builder on a budget is around 6 months behind the leading edge hardware. It is also usefull to position yourself to recieve the hardware as its disgarded by the builders who have to have the best as soon as it comes out... or run up too many credit card bills and have to pay them off :rolleyes:

I would never recommend any sites to buy stuff off as your experience will change with every seller. I've never had a problem, but i'm not naive enough to think I never will. Plus the process is a lot longer. I've been getting the components together for my next build since March and i'm still probably a few weeks away from having all of them. But the money saved was worth it. It paid for my 42" Plasma TV and z5500 sound system. Oh and i've never had to pay import tax as the packages come from private individuals rather than businesses.

Anti

L31mr0d wrote:

what resolution are you playing games at? 800x600? I can't believe your claim that you are able to play these games at max settings using a 6800LE. I had a spec almost identical to yours at the beginning of last year (had the 3700+ at 2.7Ghz and 6800Ultra, a lot better than the LE) and it was FEAR that convinced me to upgrade my graphics card as I was getting FPS below 20 at 1280x1024 with everything on high.

I'm now on a 1080P plasma, and my 8800GTX just barely runs Spiderman 3, DiRT and GRAW 2 at max settings... try running those games on your PC, games that actually are new and actually require a high spec PC.

I personally only upgrade out of necessity. If I can't run a game or app or my PC is slower than i'd like it I upgrade. I purposely have avoided buying into the P35 chipset as I don't plan on upgrading again for at least another year.

I agree, there is no way that spec pc will run cnc3 at high res and max details with aa and af. The 6800le is a budget card. And the 3700+ is only a single core cpu. And you only have 1gig of ram.

DemonOfTheFall

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote:

i have cnc 3 and play it full spec, not a bother .

Don't think so buddy.

Core2 at 3.00GHz with 2GB 800MHz 4-4-4-12 RAM, 256MB X1900XT.

C&C3 gets a bit jerky for me with 1680x1050 High. Don't think I even have AA or AF on.

uberpixie

L31mr0d wrote:

What i've found to be the ideal position to be in for the compulsive PC builder on a budget is around 6 months behind the leading edge hardware. It is also usefull to position yourself to recieve the hardware as its disgarded by the builders who have to have the best as soon as it comes out... or run up too many credit card bills and have to pay them off :rolleyes:

By the sounds of it you seem to stay very up to date the smart way and it sounds like the best way of doing it.

Personally I just prefer to build and machine, beat it until it works well and then get it to STFU and stay in the corner and just work. Drag as much life out of it as possible, prop it up with an upgrade or two then strip it for parts and rebuild at the end of its life.

It wouldn't suit me to constantly be swapping in and out parts and I usually couldn't be arsed with buying 2nd hand and dealing with sellers over the net.
(That said it does seems like a very good idea and it's something I will start looking into it a bit more, build time is coming up soon for me)

I suppose it comes down to how well you like to play games: it doesn't bother too much having to lower gfx settings towards the end of a machines life, it's just a sign to me I should start to build in the next few months and I start to look at parts and reviews a bit closer.

I really do like to drag as much life out of the hardware as possible and will wait a while to see what is around the corner techwise before I build: at the very least the older stuff gets cheaper:D.

I also game off a 17" tft, which will not be replaced until it dies. I'm sure if I was gaming off a 22"+ TFT I would be upgrading every year or so with fresh parts to stay playing at native res.

The current rig is a Shuttle box:3500+, 1 gig of ram and a X800XT PE.

Not up to much above 1024 x 768 @ medium to low settings in graphic intensive modern games: a very modest spec but it will still play Company of Heroes on medium to low settings at 1280 x 1024 and anything older runs fine.

No way in hell a similar spec can run a game such a C&C3 or Graw at full settings though. (you will play well on medium to low though @ low res)

DirkVoodoo

uberpixie wrote:

Personally I just prefer to build and machine, beat it until it works well and then get it to STFU and stay in the corner and just work. Drag as much life out of it as possible, prop it up with an upgrade or two then strip it for parts and rebuild at the end of its life.

Possibly the worst case of domestic PC abuse I have come across .

TonyM.

Some of the computers at the E-BAY Dell outlet are worth looking at i picked up a pc for €201.00 and kept the hard drive and modem and got €200 for the remaining parts.

stevejazzx

my new rig now consists of

aq6600 - 290 from flaccus/adverts
2gb top gskill ram - 120 from richard downer/adverts
monitor 20' lg - 250 from friend
case, mobo 300e - from 0c
dvdrw - 15e sterling form ocuk ./clearance itme
xfx 8800gts - 300

less than 1400 altogether and it's pretty much top of the range
what these guys do with 3.5k i don't know....2x8800gtx? madness in my opinion...900 euo on a cpu - insanity!

uberpixie

DirkVoodoo wrote:

Possibly the worst case of domestic PC abuse I have come across .

Its not abuse its love.


(fear is the same as love right......?)