Did you vote Green and will you again?

gbh

Maybe this should be in the form of a poll or something.

But I am wondering or interested to know how many people gave the Greens a high preference vote in the General Election and would consider doing so again after they go into coalition with FF?

Its fair to say those who voted in the Mansion House are closer to the levers of power than ordinary voters and are probably councillors, advisors, etc to the Greens hence a certain amount of vested interest. But just wondering is there a perception out there among ordinary voters that the Greens have sold out, or do you agree that it is better to be a Green in government regardless of who with than in opposition.

I suspect only a dunce or the truly prejudiced would disclose how they might vote in 5 years time without having the slightest clue how the greens will perform in the meantime. Presumably if they do extremely well, people may vote for them etc. etc. etc.

fits

I didnt, and I might. Depending on how they pursue their policies.
To be anti incinerator isnt 'green' in my opinion....
That traffic congestion on the N3 isnt terribly green either....

I would like to see good investment into useful public transport... and therefore I am happy that the greens are in government.

loyatemu

I was out of the country but probably would've voted Green.

They wouldn't have achieved anything in opposition so I think they might as well give it a go. I think McDowell said that FF are the like the bread in a sandwich and its the other party that supplies the flavour. We'll see how they do....

Blackhorse Slim

I voted Green. I'm sure I will again, but a lot can change in 5 years.

I don't think the Greens have sold out, and I think a Fianna Fail government will be slightly better for having a Green presence, but I think this is a dangerous move for the Greens. I hope it works out.

John_C

Yes & probably.

Montallie

I voted Green and will not do so again. I might as well have voted for Fianna Fail in the first place if I'd wanted them. This morning I compared a list I had kept of what the Green's policies were with what they got from joining FF, and it seems to me they got no concessions on the most important of their policies. I am deeply disappointed. I had thought that the Greens, of all the parties, were the most principled. It seems now that it really is a case of 'anything for power.'

There are four votes in our house, all of which were used for the Greens, and none of which will go to them again. This is not an idle threat, but has been agreed by the members of a most basic institution of society, a family.

Ardent

Yes and no. I was worried giving them my vote as they wouldn't openly commit to one side or the other - I was afraid they could hop into bed with FF.

You learn from your mistakes as they say.

PopeBuckfastXVI

Yes and Maybe

If they had not entered government given the opportunity it would be Yes and No.

I voted for them to go in, not to snipe from the sidelines.

FF & FG are two sides of the same coin, you couldn't slide paper between them.

SeanW

Yes, and Probably not. FF has repeatedly proven themselves to be shady, disconnected from reality, arrogant and concerned only with getting reelected. Anyone who does business with them, other than Independents, can forget about getting a large preference from me. I foolishly thought that Labour would do business with FF before the Greens, and voted accordingly. Assuming Labour continues its present stance, I'll change mine to reflect new realities.

mickoneill30

No and maybe.
They've got two options. Go into government and try and make a difference. Stay out of government and make no difference. I voted Labour #1 in this election. I doubt I will next time for exactly the same reasons. I'd like the people I vote for to actually get into government. Fair enough if they don't becuase of numbers but if they do it by choice then don't expect my vote again.

MontgomeryClift

Yes, and on the second part, my intention for now is not to vote for a Green candidate again.

nesf

Well, as far as I am concerned, they now have an opportunity to show if they are worth voting for. It's very hard to judge a party that has only ever been in opposition.

Vegeta

No and Never.

Greens are anti any form of hunting and I cant support a party who hold that position.

dreamerbeliever

I gave em a vote, but now to me they are sell outs. They're part of a government that's gonna build a road through Tara and bring in co-location hospitals. Stuff that I thought that the Greens were dead set against in principle.

Darragh29

Yes I did and I can tell you for certain, NO I WON'T!!! As far as I'm concerned, these shower of these sh*tehounds have thrown away every bit of dignity and honesty that I thought they had. Whatever about compromise, which I understand is necessary in life, these people have completely thrown in some core principles, all for the love of a few Mercs & Perks.

Their decision to go into government without having the Shannon issue dealt with shows a pure absence of adherence to any sort of value that they might have had, its like they spent the last 5 years shouting and roaring, "We're 200% against the US military in Shannon" and then they get into discussions with FF and its like, "ah ok, we don't feel toooo strongly about that so we'll throw out that value". It makes me want to throw up.

Villain

Yes I gave Mary White a vote, will I again? well I think to answer that now would be very stupid. I will look at how Mary and the rest of her party perform over the next 5 years or less in Government and then decide where my vote will go.

Darragh29

Trevor Sargeant must be going for the Irish Comical Entertainment Award or something... He resigns his leadership of the party because he won't lead the party into government with Fianna Fail, but having said that, he says he will accept a cabinet seat (a junior one now mind you, careful now Ted, down with sort of thing, ye bad pup!), from the leader of the party that he won't lead his party into government with!?!?!?!?!?!

I've seen and heard it all now I tell ya!

Jonny Arson

Yes, I Green Party and it is highly unlikely I can ever vote for them or even give them a preference again. Particularly difficult for me is that the Green candidate who I voted for has today come out publically to slam this shameful decision by his party for the same reasons as me with regards to the overall poor quality of the deal, co-location, use of Shannon by US troops for war and the destruction at the Hill of Tara. I feel sorry for the minority of Green candidates who stood by their principles and who were not lured into the glare of power jangled infront of them, they have a difficult choice ahead of them to stick with the party or not as votes will be at stake.

timmywex

i cant believe that dan boyle never got reelcted, ovre the last few days, ive found out that he is a sound out man....what a ledge!!

johnnyskeleton

dreamerbeliever wrote:

I gave em a vote, but now to me they are sell outs. They're part of a government that's gonna build a road through Tara and bring in co-location hospitals. Stuff that I thought that the Greens were dead set against in principle.

Or maybe such extremely unpopular decisions will not be made by a FF/Green coalition. Better in than out I say.

Yes, I gave an elected TD my 1 vote. I gave the same TD my vote last time, and unless there is a serious change, will probably vote for him again next time.

I would rather see Greens in government with FF than with FG.

blorg

Yes, and yes. I'm no fan of Fianna Fail but I didn't vote Green hoping they wouldn't be in government. Hopefully this will give the party a chance to prove itself as a "safe pair of hands" and win more wide-ranging support next time around.

Breezer

Yes and more than likely not. I was going to give my number 1 to the Greens but became wary that they might go into power with FF. After struggling with the idea I gave them a preference vote in the end. Never did I dream that not only would they go into power with FF, they would cheerfully abandon almost every single policy that attracted me to the party in the first place.

I voted primarily FG and Labour; FF and the PDs did not feature on my voting card, and now I feel like I have helped put them back into power. I feel cheated. The Greens have an awful lot of work to do if they want me to vote for them again, and I can't see them having enough influence. I can see the next five years being The Bertie Show, Act 3, followed by the Bertie and Biffo finger-pointing and hand-washing game. We'll see though.

I've informed Ciarán Cuffe (my local TD), Trevor Sargent and John Gormley of this and I would encourage anyone who feels similarly to do the same. It might help them think about things.

Liam Byrne

1) Not a high preference and 2) not at all, next time.

A party that sells out on 3 of its core principles before day 1 of the Dail isn't worth having.

And Sargent is a joke....what he said was "I won't lead the Greens into Government with FF", what he implied by that was "We won't go into Government with FF", and what he did was.....erm, "go into Government with FF" :frust:

If he resigned completely and refused to take part I'd have more regard for him. While the PDs have since turned into a despicable and psychotic "privatise everything and screw public services while vested interests make money" party, at least, back in the old days, Dessie O'Malley had principles and resigned when it was required.

Agent Smith

I voted FG, Labour and Green,

will i vote green again? not sure, i'm disapointed a bit that they went into power with FF, but that said, if they implament some good ideas, then i'm sure they will return to preferance list.

Kalashnikov_Kid

To the people here praising Labour for staying in opposition while criticising the Greens for jumping into power: do you honestly believe that Rabitte wouldnt have done likewise and not go into government with FF 'for the good interests of the people' if Bertie had knocked on his door?

John_C

Breezer wrote:

I voted primarily FG and Labour; FF and the PDs did not feature on my voting card, and now I feel like I have helped put them back into power. I feel cheated.

Is it fair to say that you were voting against FF as much as in favour of anyone?

There'll always be people voting tactically to either keep or change the government and there's probably an equal number of them on each side. The greens can't be expected to play the numbers game and aim for those votes. If they get some good work done in government they'll improve their party, it they don't then that's their own look out.

nollaig

I voted Green and will not do so again. I might as well have voted for Fianna Fail in the first place if I'd wanted them.

Not really as you wouldnt have 2 green ministers now

Mick86

I didn't vote for them and now I never will.

The Greens have gone into coalition with the most shamelessly corrupt bunch of politicians in Irish history since Britain bought the Union. Trevor Sargent is an absolute hypocrite who deserved to be shafted by his colleagues in their quest for power. The only concession the Greens got from FF was direct election of the Lord Mayor of Dublin in 7 or 8 years time. I mean WOW, am I impressed or what. Muesli is obviously not brain food.

DarkJager

I never have and never will vote for the greens.

Their policies such as raising the price of petrol may help the environment, but at a massive cost to the ordinary taxpayer. Tree hugging policies are okay as long as the normal working citizen isn't getting ****ed over to fund them.

Mr Magnolia

I did, I'll wait and see what sort of influence they have and what's achieved before I decide next time.

Riamfada

Has gormely stated his policy on the M3 / Tara thing?

bk

I think it is quite funny, many here who say they won't vote for the greens again seem to be actually FG/Labour supporters who only gave them their 3rd or 4th preference and are now pissed because the greens did the sensible thing.

People like you are no lose to them, as they will make up for that lose with transfers from FF people in the next election (assuming an election pact with FF).

The only people who really matter are the people who give the greens their first preference, in other words actually real green supporters. We should really only be interested in how these people will vote in the next election.

My feeling is that green core supporters (first preference green) will not react in such an emotional manner and will reserve their judgment to see how the greens do in government.

Voipjunkie

Mick86 wrote:

I didn't vote for them and now I never will.

The Greens have gone into coalition with the most shamelessly corrupt bunch of politicians in Irish history since Britain bought the Union. Trevor Sargent is an absolute hypocrite who deserved to be shafted by his colleagues in their quest for power. The only concession the Greens got from FF was direct election of the Lord Mayor of Dublin in 7 or 8 years time. I mean WOW, am I impressed or what. Muesli is obviously not brain food.

Seriously do you believe that FG are better than FF the only difference that I can see is that FF have been in power more often and as such they have had the opportunity to be corrupted more than FG.

I mean its not like Lowry was a saint or young Cosgrave and the performance of their councillors on planning in the 80s was nothing to write home about.

This is pure nonsense that somehow FF are inherently corrupt and FG are honest as the day is long there have been scumbags in both parties and there will be in the future.

Hector Gilbert

Did I vote Green? Yes

Will I vote Green again? Well my decision has been unchanged since before I cast my vote, which is that I'm not sure. From the start I was hoping to see them in government, no matter who with, and though one or two of the concessions they made sting a little they would probably have had to have made them with FG/Labour in power as well. It's pretty simple: if they perform in government (particularly on public transport), I will vote for them; if they do not perform in government, I will not vote for them and since I do not feel represented by any other party I will probably leave the country as I also have Canadian citizenship.

bmaxi

Voipjunkie wrote:

Seriously do you believe that FG are better than FF the only difference that I can see is that FF have been in power more often and as such they have had the opportunity to be corrupted more than FG.

I mean its not like Lowry was a saint or young Cosgrave and the performance of their councillors on planning in the 80s was nothing to write home about.

This is pure nonsense that somehow FF are inherently corrupt and FG are honest as the day is long there have been scumbags in both parties and there will be in the future.

I agree, to a certain extent. FF seem to nurture and reward their "bad boys". " Give us back that oul' whip for a few weeks and keep the head down " syndrome. Ahern in particular is seen to defend poor performers in the Cabinet which makes people suspicious of his motives.
On the core question, I did vote Green, not for their tree hugging policies as such but because I thought they had principles, I'm not so sure any more.

gbh

Breezer wrote:

Yes and more than likely not. I was going to give my number 1 to the Greens but became wary that they might go into power with FF. After struggling with the idea I gave them a preference vote in the end. Never did I dream that not only would they go into power with FF, they would cheerfully abandon almost every single policy that attracted me to the party in the first place.

I voted primarily FG and Labour; FF and the PDs did not feature on my voting card, and now I feel like I have helped put them back into power. I feel cheated. The Greens have an awful lot of work to do if they want me to vote for them again, and I can't see them having enough influence. I can see the next five years being The Bertie Show, Act 3, followed by the Bertie and Biffo finger-pointing and hand-washing game. We'll see though.

I've informed Ciarán Cuffe (my local TD), Trevor Sargent and John Gormley of this and I would encourage anyone who feels similarly to do the same. It might help them think about things.

Interesting...I know I'm going to sound like Frank Bunce or whatever that guys name is...but to me it seems like you voted Green to keep FF out of power, but in fact by voting Green you put FF in power. Or you wanted anyone but Fianna Fail...maybe i am reading it wrong.

tHE vAGGABOND

Voted green, and very happy some of their policies will now become law and they/we will have a group of 'sane' voices at the cabnet table..

I just dont understand the green members [and members of the public] who say they are 'green' but dont want a seat at the table and a chance to make some law..

...do they just want a talking shop [going nowhere] forever

Zaph

Hector Gilbert wrote:

From the start I was hoping to see them in government, no matter who with, and though one or two of the concessions they made sting a little they would probably have had to have made them with FG/Labour in power as well.

My sentiments exactly. I've always voted Green and probably will continue to do so. I vote for them because I want them in government, and as a small party they're going to need to be in the sort of position they were in this time for that to happen. I also know that there will be concessions no matter who they're in government with by virtue of the party's size. To think otherwise or to vote for them because you want FF out is unrealistic.

OTK

Very happy to see two green ministers. Environment and Energy under green control is a massive change. Losing Dick Roche is like getting rid of a wart.

LuckyLloyd

bk wrote:

I think it is quite funny, many here who say they won't vote for the greens again seem to be actually FG/Labour supporters who only gave them their 3rd or 4th preference and are now pissed because the greens did the sensible thing.

People like you are no lose to them, as they will make up for that lose with transfers from FF people in the next election (assuming an election pact with FF).

The only people who really matter are the people who give the greens their first preference, in other words actually real green supporters. We should really only be interested in how these people will vote in the next election.

My feeling is that green core supporters (first preference green) will not react in such an emotional manner and will reserve their judgment to see how the greens do in government.

Phew. I was afraid that there were going to be no rational and reasonable responses in this thread until I read the above.

The reality is that any 6 seat party sitting in government with a 78 seat monolith was going to get the short end of the stick when it came to brokering a deal. They have had to let some key policies go - but they now get a chance to influence from the right side of the divide, push forward their agenda, and can hopefully take forward and be constructive with the ministries they have received.

Let us see what happens before we rush to conclusions and get all worked up.

Breezer

gbh wrote:

Interesting...I know I'm going to sound like Frank Bunce or whatever that guys name is...but to me it seems like you voted Green to keep FF out of power, but in fact by voting Green you put FF in power. Or you wanted anyone but Fianna Fail...maybe i am reading it wrong.

Exactly, that's the point I was making. And it's people like me, who voted FG and Labour and gave preferences to the Greens that have created this situation. Transfers elected the Greens. Were it not for Sean Barrett's (FG) transfers after he was elected, and Eugene Regan's (FG) after he was eliminated, for example, Ciarán Cuffe would not have been elected in Dun Laoghaire. Cuffe got thousands of transfers from these two, as against hundreds from Mary Hanafin and Bary Andrews (FF).

But regardless, it isn't the fact that the Greens went in with Fianna Fáil that annoys me so much as the 'compromises' they made. I fully accept that compromise will be necessary and that given the seat difference most of it would have to come from the Green side. But what's happened is nothing short of a sell out. All their major policies slashed except for the carbon tax which has been watered down to the point of ridicule.

Edit: I didn't want anyone but FF. I wanted FG and Labour with the possible inclusion of the Greens. Sinn Fein and the PDs were also non-runners for me.

Zaph

In fairness, would Enda Kenny have offered the Greens any more? Probably not, considering he'd also have a larger coalition partner to look after as well. The only difference might have been that Labour may have viewed some Green policies as compatible with their own and pushed for them to be include in a programme for government.

sakigrant

I voted fine gael as my first choice with green second. Obviously my transfer from the fine gael candidate transferred to the green candidate. I wanted fianna faile out and am deeply disapointed with the green party. I will certainly not vote for a party which supports such an allegedlly corrupt party as fianna fail. Sad.

Mick86

bk wrote:

People like you are no lose to them, as they will make up for that lose with transfers from FF people in the next election (assuming an election pact with FF).

You mean like the PDs gained from FF transfers having made an election pact with them.

bk wrote:

The only people who really matter are the people who give the greens their first preference, in other words actually real green supporters. We should really only be interested in how these people will vote in the next election.

Well you've dropped 13% of your core vote already and perhaps split you party. Good move.

bk wrote:

My feeling is that green core supporters (first preference green) will not react in such an emotional manner and will reserve their judgment to see how the greens do in government.

Yeah you could see how unemotional and detached Patricia McKenna was on Wednesday night.

Voipjunkie wrote:

Seriously do you believe that FG are better than FF the only difference that I can see is that FF have been in power more often and as such they have had the opportunity to be corrupted more than FG.

I mean its not like Lowry was a saint or young Cosgrave and the performance of their councillors on planning in the 80s was nothing to write home about.

This is pure nonsense that somehow FF are inherently corrupt and FG are honest as the day is long there have been scumbags in both parties and there will be in the future.

I didn't mention FG in my post so your whole rant is irrelevant.

Breezer wrote:

But what's happened is nothing short of a sell out. All their major policies slashed except for the carbon tax which has been watered down to the point of ridicule.

Don't forget the Lord Mayor of Dublin. Now that's a biggie. I can see people all over the country partying into the wee small hours in a few years time because the citizens of Dublin got to elect their own Mayor. Brilliant.

I love the carbon tax one as well. You have to wonder why FF haven't implemented it before now. What an election slogan-"Vote for us and we'll put 5c on the price of a litre of petrol". It's a sure fire election winner.

Sonnenblumen

sakigrant wrote:

I voted fine gael as my first choice with green second. Obviously my transfer from the fine gael candidate transferred to the green candidate. I wanted fianna faile out and am deeply disapointed with the green party. I will certainly not vote for a party which supports such an allegedlly corrupt party as fianna fail. Sad.

In that case all parties (large and small) are corrupt, they've either been in FF coalition partners and/or have their own brand of political corruptness:rolleyes:

I was surprised that the Greens did sell-out and I think they will suffer next election, as I'd expect some Green supporters/members will walk away dismayed if not disllusioned and let down.

Classic Irish politique, say one thing but do another. That's hypocrisy and that's bad, real bad news?

miju

yes and NEVER again

Breezer

zaph wrote:

In fairness, would Enda Kenny have offered the Greens any more? Probably not, considering he'd also have a larger coalition partner to look after as well. The only difference might have been that Labour may have viewed some Green policies as compatible with their own and pushed for them to be include in a programme for government.

You make a good point, and to be honest this was exactly what I was feeling when I voted. However I reasoned that because their policies were compatible, the Greens would probably go into power with Labour (and by extension FG), while I (and seemingly a lot of people, including most FF voters) reckoned they were unlikely to go into power with FF whose policies were incompatible with their own.

heyjude

DarkJager wrote:

I never have and never will vote for the greens.

Their policies such as raising the price of petrol may help the environment, but at a massive cost to the ordinary taxpayer. Tree hugging policies are okay as long as the normal working citizen isn't getting ****ed over to fund them.

With or without the Greens, petrol prices are headed in one direction only and thats up. The cost of a barrel of oil is predicted to hit $80 before the end of the year and thats if there are no problems in the middle east etc, in addition, the strength of the Euro against the Dollar has shielded us from some of the effects of the high oil price, but if the Euro weakens or Dollar strengthens, oil will end up costing us even more.

If the Greens raise petrol prices, then hold them accountable surely, but Cowan decides on tax rates/increases etc and the Greens have no role in deciding world oil prices.

Maybe we should be looking at ways to reduce our oil requirements now, while we can still afford it, and not leave it until oil hits $100 or $120 a barrel

Dalfiatach

I gave the Greens my #1 in 2002, the 2004 locals, and last month.

Had the deal with FF been in any way reasonable, and especially if they had insisted on the PDs (and hence co-location) being gone as the price, then I'd be happy enough.

But to abjectly roll over on every major policy stance and get nothing in return but a lot of vague and meaningless "promises" that we all know will never be delivered by Bertie's mafia...and giving the loathed PDs a lifeline to continue in existence...

It's extremely unlikely I'll ever vote for them again. Granted, we do have to wait and see how they perform, and maybe they actually will be able to make some desperately-needed reforms. But I really doubt it.

Then again, I might leave the country now anyway. I can't see things working out well for the next 5 years, and I've lost all faith in the intelligence of the people and the integrity of the political class.

DublinWriter

Mark my words; this Dail will be history within 18 months.

The whole pact has 'timebomb' stamped all over it.

There will be a Reynolds/Spring type pull-out over some FF planning naughtiness that will hit the Tribunals very shortly.

In the meantime Sergeant has really shot himself in the foot with his grassroots over this coalition.